#the only jally I don’t like is like ‘older brother dally and younger brother johnny’

[boysborntodie]

When I say I ship Jally, I don’t mean they have to be romantically involved. To me, they’re each other’s person(tm). They’re truly in love, and it doesn’t matter if itself romantic or platonic or anything. They’re just everything to each other<333

[dallasgallant]

I never realized it before until recently but it’s so crazy how much and how often ponyboy babies johnny in the book….. always talking about him being the pet of the group (which is true but he really does talk about him like he was a dog or a cat like chill out girl 😭), how much hero worship he has for everyone around him, his stature and soft spoken-ness, pony really seems to preserve him by making him seem like 10 years old even though he describes many situations in which johnny is taking care of him especially in windrixville like staying awake for him on the train letting him sleep on him, his own jacket as a blanket when he goes to buy them food, etc lol I hope you get what I mean I don’t have the book with me rn so I can’t really give off exact examples off the top of my head but—

also maybe that’s why people are often soooo turned off by the concept of J and D being a ship because of how PB describes him, I’ve seen people think that J was the same age or younger than him and so they think of a big brother/little brother dynamic for jally when they actually seem more on equal ground than pony and dally (who in a kind of mentor/mentee relationship) and even pony and johnny (who I’d say are in more of a brother relationship… controversial opinion I know but I’m sticking with it!) in fact I’d say they’re the Most on equal ground in the whole story even more than soda and darry…. but I’ll let you guys figure that out on your own… even though JD only have a 1.5 age difference

okayyyyy so I definitely didn’t mean to make this about the ship dynamics of the book but I guess I can’t not be gay for five fucking minutes 😭😭😭 but it’s relevant to the point !!! idk I just felt like rambling to someone about it because pony really does talk about him like he’s so little and I think that really muddles the perception of johnny even though he’s trying to honor his memory because of the delicate ways he’s trying to protect him after he died :(

johnny cade they will never make me hate you </3

Oh yeah, I definitely think a lot of it is Pony’s recognition of himself as the youngest, as a “baby” and sort of projecting it off onto someone else. However, we know the gang doesn’t just see pony as “the kid brother” so it’s sort of his own issue to work out- as well as I think a bit of a lack of understanding? Or lack of a way to properly explain the way the gang treats Johnny, they take it a little easy on him as he’d been shaken pretty bad (they wouldn’t known/use ‘traumatized’ but they would know he changed a little) but they never really talk down to him.

No but yes I agree! Pony sort of washes over a lot of senecios where Johnny is clearly the older/more mature of the two of them. He’s the second youngest but he’s still 16. He’s still protecting and helping Pony like the rest of the guys and the whole “my fault for dragging a 13 year old kid along” detail…

No you’re right honestly. It’s weird to me as Johnny’s described as soft and close to Ponyboy but he never came across as 14 or that young to me in the book or movie— like there was always that knowledge to him that revealed his age. And I agree… he and Dally are on equal footing and trust. They have something going on whatever way you interpret it…. Personally I find “little brother” INSANE. As where people baby Johnny they over age Dallas… he’s 17 it’s a years age difference. If a friend barely older than me tried to pull that I’d throat punch them 😭 it’s ? They’re trying to make it cute but it feels a little demeaning? Putting the “little” in there. Dal doesn’t talk down to Johnny… honestly he talks up to him, gets mad expecting him to know better etc — trusts him with the gun, money etc everything and taking responsibility.

But no that’s also so sweet that in a way, even if Pony is being a bit off in how Johnny was treated that he’s trying to sort of protect him within his story. Honor him in a strange way. Ough. He was his best friend, you’d want to sweeten that image. Absolve.

[this-hopeless-war]

okay I’ve put this in another persons ask box before but the depths to which I crave validation for my thoughts is unthinkable so I’m recycling the piece LOL 😭😭😭 this basically just book takes :3

I never realized it before until recently but it’s so crazy how much and how often ponyboy babies johnny in the book….. always talking about him being the pet of the group (which is true but he really does talk about him like he was a dog or a cat like chill out girl 😭), how much hero worship he has for everyone around him, his stature and soft spoken-ness, pony really seems to preserve him by making him seem like 10 years old even though he describes many situations in which johnny is taking care of him especially in windrixville like staying awake for him on the train, letting him sleep on him, using his own jacket as a blanket for pony when he goes to buy them food, trying to talk him down after the fight with Darry, and even killing Bob (though I could argue that a little part of him kind of wanted to hurt him too, maybe not death but definitely fear and injury BUT THATS A SEPARATE THOUGHT) etc. lol I hope you get what I mean I don’t have the book with me rn so I can’t really give off exact examples off the top of my head even though I know they’re in there but—

also maybe that’s why people are often soooo turned off by the concept of J and D being a ship because of how PB describes him, I’ve seen people think that J was the same age or younger than him and so they think of a big brother/little brother dynamic for jally when they actually seem more on equal ground than pony and dally (who in a kind of mentor/mentee relationship) and even pony and johnny (who I’d say are in more of a brother relationship… controversial opinion I know but I’m sticking with it!) in fact I’d say they’re the Most on equal ground in the whole story even more than soda and darry…. but I’ll let you guys figure that out on your own… even though JD only have a 1.5 year age difference. **everyone can like what they like but me personally I am a jally enjoyer and #to #me I’ve noticed that that is the main thing people ever bring up when it comes to the two of them together**

okayyyyy so I definitely didn’t mean to make this about the ship dynamics of the book but I guess I can’t not be gay for five fucking minutes 😭😭😭 but it’s relevant to the point !!! idk I just felt like rambling to someone about it because pony really does talk about him like he’s so little and I think that really muddles the perception of johnny even though he’s trying to honor his memory because of the delicate ways he’s trying to protect him after he died :(

Oooo I never even thought abt that you're kinda right

Johnny's older but as Pony describes him like the gangs "pet" and we know he looks young based of his interaction with Marcia, i'm not a Jally shipper but that's still very interesting to think about in terms of characterization!

[boysborntodie]

how do you feel about this whole "little brother" agenda in the outsiders musical, genuinely curious.

just wanna elaborate a little since I've got a chance to because I cannot be the only one suffering through this, I do not think that the relationship between jally has to be strictly romantic, and for me they're just inevitable soulmates in every universe, but making them into an older/younger sibling dynamic makes me feel like they just watered down their whole dynamic? and left no space for free interpretation, including jally shippers. i swear to god man, the song "little brother" had SO MUCH potential and the sibling dynamic was just incredibly unnecessary. the thing I'm most afraid of is people starting to think of them as a problematic ship or some shit and I'm NEVER letting that go 😭😭😭😭

EXACTLY THANK YOU took the words right out of my mouth, anon<33

Jally’s always been contested in the fandom because of their so-called ‘big bro-little bro’ dynamic which the movie itself also leans into a bit I think. It’s not wrong to read their relationship as such but feels a bit odd to me personally as their age difference in the novel is less than a year and also it’s feels so reductive when canon Jally feel to me, very much on equal footing.

And arguing against this dynamic for them feels as if people are just going to think you’re doing so for shipping reasons, which like you said is not the case!! I don’t view them as strictly or necessarily romantic and don’t need to do so in order to enjoy their relationship (for me they’re just each other’s person whatever the fuck that means for them)

Personally speaking what I enjoy about them is how against all odds, these are two characters who connected with each other and loved each other in a way that they never had with any other character (that is not to say that Pony isn’t just as important to Johnny, just that those characters have a different type relationship).

It’s about Dally never treating Johnny as a kid or inferior, conceding to Johnny even though we know what power and toughness means to Dally, yet he will be vulnerable and open with Johnny. About how Johnny rather than blindly idolising Dally, genuinely understands him and sees him as a person, and finds that person admirable. About how Johnny who is a character who is constantly put down in life, is allowed to interact with Dally on his own terms, and how Dally never pushes him.

You can argue that these things can ring true with a little-big brother dynamic but I just can’t see it and it just adds this power dynamic to them just is just very uninteresting to me when the ship’s appeal comes from the ways that they are on equal footing.

But again that’s just all debate and opinion, and the problem isn’t that viewing them as such is wrong or bad; not at all! Like you said, the issue is how stating their dynamic in these reductive terms, no longer allowing the open interpretation the novel had and thus making it an (stupid) argument against Jally and its shippers in fandom