#the odyssey of recollection…..

[starfilledsea]

girl help i’m going insane thinking about iwtv and black sails parallels. everything is a story you can’t trust anyone’s words. memory is a monster it remembers you don’t. a story is true a story is untrue as time extends it matters less and less. there is no corroboration of louis and armand’s stories about claudia in season 2, the same way there is no corroboration of silver’s story of what happened to flint. can we trust armand’s story of how she died? can we trust silver’s story of how flint didn’t die? will we ever know the truth? is there such a thing as the truth? was it raining louis?

[userarmand]

claudia + faceless — for anonymous

[weidli]

Santiago exposing Louis by his emphasis on the second syllable borrowed from the French in front of everyone pulling his heart out and everything inside it - say New Orleans - the slow crawl toward the beginning of the end. Louis sitting in front of Daniel in Dubai with his voice picked clean of Louisiana. wouldja look at these fuckin dots i've got here

[satan-wishes-he-was-me]

personal favorite thing they do in iwtv is when they play out one flashback scene and then someone (usually daniel) pokes holes in it until they play the flashback again but with either one element added or changed

[lgbtiwtv]

he didn’t even think she could dream.

he spent 70 years thinking she didn’t dream. he believed the lies she told herself just like he believes the lies he tells himself. he didn’t think she would lie. he didn’t think about how she suffered too, how she needed the stories too. how she’s a complete person with fears and hopes, how she would lie to herself to get through the pain of life just like everyone else. he forgot so much of her, so much of the realities of everyday life that he believed her when he himself witnessed otherwise. he didn’t even think she could dream

[theology101]

God, I hope time never unquangles

[lestatbratposting]

The only reason Lestat's hair is longer thru s2 is cuz our boys got deeper into romanticizing their story telling.

[orange-celeste]

It's a small detail but I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone else mention it -

In Episode 4 of Season 2, When Daniel is remembering San Francisco, as the Initial Meeting in the Bar is shown again, Armand now in fact DOES have his usual Orange-ish eyes in the second round of the memory

Compared to the Original shown in S1E6

[wastrelwoods]

spinning out real quick about rgu and illusions and futility......the literal castle in the air over ohtori....impossible to reach...inverted and hanging over them like its about to fall.....the planetarium that projects fantasies...that only shows images of the stars and not the real sky......the sports car that reaches impossible speeds and shows its passengers a view of everything they hope for just within reach appears to be doing nothing but driving endlessly in circles, bringing nobody any closer to their goals...the stage lights and headlights and eyeglasses and opera glasses and camera lenses. the images you see are all just a trick of the light

[officialjimmybuffett]

LIAR, LIAR

amc's interview with the vampire "cover story" by richard siken isaiah 59: 2-3 the stanley parable by davey wreden and william pugh black sails kieran culkin for vulture

a web weave for @iwtvfanevents saint louis of the vieux carré event: day 7 — memory

[thedailydescent]

Madeleine: And I didn't tell her about Aimee because I didn't want her thinking she was...what was your word?

Claudia, looking pointedly at Louis: The replacement.

Madeleine: Right.

Claudia: So thank you for falling right back into Daddy Lou shoes. And thank you for never treating me like a child. Take some lessons, Louis.

Looking at just this it makes more sense Claudia said this line to Madeleine, not Armand.

[patricidemutual]

armand "a century or so ago. yesterday. what is time to a vampire?" the vampire

[nalyra-dreaming]

I have a couple of questions if that’s alright? A couple fo things have been bugging me and I don’t know who else to ask. I feel like I’m going crazy because I keep seeing the idea what Armand is entirely to blame for anything misremembering/untruths that Louis has about Lestat. But, is there evidence of him putting false memories in Louis head? I know he’s edited stuff out but what did we explicitly see him change or are we assuming that and waiting for the reveal next series?

Secondly, how are the coven awake to burn Claudia and Madeline? And how is Louis awake to burn then back? Aren’t they all basically unable to resist the call of sleep when the sun’s up?

Thanks for all the work you do in this fandom of answering questions! It’s so amazing having fans like you around willing to discuss things.

Hey!

Glad you like! I'll try to explain my view on this :)

So. For the misremembering:

It's not that easy. To say it was "all" Armand, I mean. Obviously there's hints (and some proof). The "broadcasting" question (the salesman), Louis seemingly not remembering the fire (Daniel prompting via the Talamasca files). Louis quoting word for word what has been planted in his brain (episode 2x05). Louis remembering the fight at the trial... and what we saw in 1x05 then not matching - for example. Louis telling us of what he remembers happened at the trial... and then the trial script contradicting. Louis telling us of Claudia's turning... and then later admitting to himself that he was wrong. Because...

... there's also the odyssey of recollection. The fallacy of memory. These vampires do forget with time. Events blur, dates are hard to pin down. The dates in season one for example are off by a year- all of them.

In the books (and outside of them, by Anne's statement), it is later said that Louis... well, lied. Exaggerated. There's snide comments in-universe. Because he was being petty, and angry. Think the interview in San Francisco in the show. Those were direct IWTV book quotes(!). The show has heavily pulled up the memory aspect instead, and shifted (some of) the blame to Armand by making him "tinker" (as Assad called it) with Louis' mind and memories in an effort to not lay it all on Louis. This tinkering (in and by itself) also happens in the book, Armand makes Louis turn Madeleine there, for example. Brings down a "veil" between him and reality when they come for them before the trial, or later when they travel. Lies to him, tells him Lestat is dead.

I don't think Armand is to blame for everything. For me the scene with the misplaced photos was very interesting for example, because Armand's frustration there read as real to me - it was nothing he did.

But Armand does a lot. Before SF, before that suicide attempt, he ... lets Louis go on killing sprees, resigns himself to clean up after Louis. After that suicide attempt however (at some point after it, depending on whether some of or all of DM happened or not) that stops. Louis does not go off and kill anymore. Louis stays, more or less broken. I have called that the "Stepford Wives" phase, and I think that fits, because Armand is constantly readjusting Louis. And Louis is not relieved when Armand reveals himself in 1x07.

You can see the behavioral shifts in the show between the episodes, too. The missing diary pages of episode 1 that Louis wants to have? Never mentioned again. The fact that Louis was up during the day, and then suddenly has to sleep till sundown while Armand tells his little fanfic story of Lestat. The using the same words and phrases. Assad said that Armand is constantly spinning his web (his words) and so he constantly readjusts... not necessarily out of a malicious desire - no, ultimately he just clings to what he has.

So no, Armand is not to blame for everything. But I personally think the show might have given us a lot of hints already, I spoke about the "hair" aspects (and what Louis got "wrong") here. There's links to the "train scene" that is unlikely to have happened as told, as well as the "hotel scene" in there as well. Louis knowing he can invite Daniel to break through was only recently called "a lifeline"

Which brings us to another aspect, the intent of the tale. Because Louis wants to protect Claudia (as he should), and that also influences the way he tells the tale - of course. Makes some things seem inevitable, for example.

And, last but not least, I can only recommend reading this article by Linda Codega - who wrote about Armand being rather important in November 22 :)

I don't think we will get big reveals à la "Oceans Eleven" or something. I think the show will expect us to think for ourselves there... 😅 And there will be clues, lots of clues... little puzzle pieces, for us to put together.

As per your other question:

The show has softened the "death sleep" to ... let's say "coffin sleep".

Louis tells "us" about it when he goes to burn them down, that the vampire's world narrows down to the coffin when they lock themselves in (we see a bigger version of that when he and Armand go to bed in their darkened bedroom). And that is why he can - more or less - surprise them.

That is not quite book canon :) BUT! The movie also softened that up already, we had Claudia tippy-toe along the sunbeams to Louis there, for example.

And in the show the vampires obviously can be up when the sun has risen, even during midday.

AND, to be fair:

The show has (already) introduced Fareed Bhansali, the "vampire doctor". He is a character from the later books, and he... wanted to free the vampires from the death sleep.

And, tongue-in-cheek: Guess he did it^^.

[harbingersecho]

we'll figure it out somehow, 'cause it's never over

[mirrorhouse]

this isn't even me being an armand defender i just find it funny that every time one of louis's memories is revealed to have been recalled with embellishments/alterations/"actually" went a different way than previously established, there are some people who immediately blame armand for it. like you fuck with someone's memories a couple times and suddenly you're The memory fucking guy. 🙄 just because louis revisits a memory and it's better or worse than previously shown or he realises he left out or added things doesn't have to mean armand tampered with it. that's just how memories work

[mothmage]

Screenshots from Armand’s Instagram. He gets really into photography, with this new ability to walk in the sun.