#the first one is when wwx asks him what kind of personal grudge would make him kill an entire clan

[mdzs-owns-my-ass-i-guess]

I keep thinking about the fact that Jiang Cheng chose not to tell Wei Ying the truth about how he lost his core in the first place - by making himself bait for the Wen soldiers to distract them from catching Wei Ying after Lotus Pier was attacked.

And I think there are several reasons for this that I've been mulling over, so I decided to make a post about it.

Disclaimers: I am in no way saying that my opinion is canon fact or that it's the only "right" or "proper" or "correct" interpretation of that scene and/or JC and WWX's characters! Feel free to disagree with me, but respectfully. I do not entertain discourse, however I enjoy debate!

Now onto the post:

One of the reasons why I think JC didn't tell WWX about his own sacrifice is the fact that, though unknowingly, WWX had already repaid his favor by supplying him a new golden core years ago.

JC may not have known the details on how that happened, but it did regardless - so bringing this up at that point in the story, after the whole Guanyin Temple debacle and the golden core reveal, would have been pointless.

Even if WWX would have known that it was JC wanting to protect him (and not the other way around) that arguably led to... well, everything in WWX's first life and his demise, I don't see WWX agonizing too much over it - even if he didn't know it at the time, he repaid his debt immediately and in kind. It would have been shocking and upsetting, of course, but, at least the way I see it, it was a closed matter.

Moreover, I think the reason why JC has kept being bitter and vengeful and angry all these years is the fact that he expected WWX to be grateful for JC's sacrifice... even if WWX had no way of knowing about it.

Hear me out: we know the reason why JC is so angry at WWX is the fact that he believes WWX broke his promise to be JC's subordinate (his words, not mine, but I don't have the chapter on hand right now).

Now, what JC had expected was, presumably, obedience - but WWX didn't provide that, because he chose to stand up for and defend the Wen remnants, which JC disagreed with vehemently (to the point that WWX had to defect from the Jiang sect and stage a fight with JC to "officialize" it).

So not only did WWX not "listen to" JC as a subordinate would, but he insisted to oppose him (and he was right for that, by the way!). In light of that, JC perhaps interpreted it as his own (already repaid) sacrifice as "wasted"... so that misdirected anger fell on WWX, his cultivation path, the Wens and whoever else followed that path or had the surname Wen (these last two are explicitly mentioned in the book, though as supposedly a rumor, however they appear plausible within text, at least to me).

Add to that JZX and JYL dying in circumstances that involved WWX (i am deliberately avoiding the wording "because of WWX", but that's a different post altogether), not to mention JC's proclivity to keeping grudges and needing to blame specific people for everything (personally, I've never seen JC as someone to look at the broad picture and as needing to direct his anger at specific people, without considering the systemic issues)... of course he never moved on, like WWX did.

Because he probably believed he was owed obedience for a sacrifice WWX didn't ask him to make at all (ironic how this is the very same logic JC throws at WWX when the core reveal happens...) and he never got that or an apology for not providing it (which WWX needn't have given anyway, it was morally right of him to protect the Wen remnants!).

All that anger and resentment festered within JC for 13 years, and it burst when he realized he wasn't actually owed anything at all, the debt he believed WWX owned him long repaid with great interest!

[llycaons]

ep30 (2/2): don't trust like that

this shot is soo cute

and so is this one!!!!!

I was GAPING when this happened the first time. I was like ONE YEAR???!!!!

wwx's happiness here is so heartbreaking to me. it shouldn't be, it's great that he has this, but knowing what's coming makes it so hard

yeah. yeah. he remembers his situation rather quickly anyway

this is so scary I would be freaked out by it in all honesty

THERE HE IS!!!! BABY JIN LING!!!!!

jgy's face after his dad told him not to hold jin ling...that is the face of murder. jgs so confident, so secure in his power. im so glad jgy killed him

on the other hand, I get this is disrespectful jgy but it's kind of a petty reason to murder a man no? kind of a small thing to get upset about. wen ning was tortured multiple times and he's way chiller than you. like it sucks that you're not being completely accepted but maybe aspiring to the cultivation gentry isn't the healthiest profession for you to pursue

so this whole conversation is noteworthy because it's all very promising. wwx is not alone or without friends in koi tower. lwj suggests inviting him -

defends him-

is backed up thoroughly by lxc-

omg this is hilarious. hero-of-the-common-people jgy truthers, is THIS your man? ready to blame a servant if a higher-ranking family member is upset? to get into the good graces of this family member?

he's so clearly out for himself, this isn't even a case of antagonists with good points who are vilified for wanting to kill babies. jgy hates the system because it hurt his mother and himself but he just wants to climb the ladder to personally get power and respect in it, and he steps on other commoners along the way

the beacon towers were his one good idea and it is a shame that they've been tainted with his other crimes

anyway. say that lwj. love this line

-and is further supported by an unlikely ally, jzx, whose got like three personality traits and one of them is loving his wife

'persuade' hmmm I don't think this would have gone over as smoothly as they claim. lwj certainly looks wary

extremely funny thing to say to the man who knows wwx better than literally anyone else in the country

it's so nice that this is lxc's vision. but jgs agreeing to forgive their personal grudge against the wens (which is exciting!!! this would have been considered out of the question a few monhts ago!!) does not reassure. jgs wants that seal and if an ambush that's calculated to look like self-defense is what it takes, I'm sure that's what he'd do

like jgs doesn't seem like a particularly proficient master of tactics, or really the type to do such a thing, but I'm sure he has advisors who would be super into it. and even if not, if he has enough support in the crowd, he can frame wwx's resistance as anything he wants and have him attacked right there

jzx itching his holes....dang I don't like him but that curse has got to SUCK

she's so happy 😭 and so so beautiful I love her

and with ONE line, jgy dooms the entire wen clan to death. god.

personal highlights:

jyl looking so gorgeous in her wedding robes!

xz's acting in general this episode. he looked about to start crying the entire time, and I was right there with him

jyl giving wn the soup...truly such a beautiful soul

jc asking after wwx's injury WAS kind of him. I admit it

wwx, looking completely dead inside as he accepts something that makes him unhappy once again. rly spoke to me

a-yuan clapping so so cute

BABY JIN LING!!!!

'who did he kill without mercy? please tell me'

jyl, jc, and jl's little family scene 🥺

[krispycreamsicle]

xue yang’s smirk slipping

[plan-d-to-i]

Great to see another person who isn't a JC stan! And the thing is, I like the idea of him being protective uncle and would love to see a reconciliation. But would I want one as JC currently is across all iterations? Nope. Maybe WWX continues to visit his home, but it's definitely not for JC's sake. He has a new life now and shouldn't be expected to be tethered to someone who clearly wanted him dead for years, tortured innocents, and was a terrible uncle.

The donghua makes him look even more pathetic imo, but by doing so, it also gives us a beautiful scene with WWX wanting to leave the past behind. JC going into seclusion is the least he could do (and personally, I was never comfortable with LXC going into one���though the man absolutely deserves to rest—so this kinda balances it out lol). Not every character is going to get their happy ending and that's okay.

Honestly, if WWX deserves to have a reunion with any of his siblings, it's Yanli. And no doubt she'd be disappointed in the person JC has become.

hahah hello other person who isn't a jc stan. ヾ(・ω・*)

I think it's great that mdzs doesn't have a reconciliation. MXTX did reconciliation between the mc and his friend in tgcf: Xie Lian & Mu Qing- but to make the reconciliation happen MXTX made Mu Qing quite different from jiang cheng. I never got the sense that it was overlooked or lacking in mdzs, but only that it's very deliberately not done. It's very true to life. There are some things there's no coming back from. jiang cheng ultimately led a siege against Wei Wuxian and killed people Wei Wuxian had spent years around, who he respected and had become familiar with and most likely loved. Wei Wuxian may not actively keep grudges, or hate in his heart, but neither is he a pushover. Honestly even if so much had not happened between them, they never had anything in common since young, their world views are completely different. They would have always drifted apart. Wei Wuxian was interested in helping others and jiang cheng cared only about helping himself. Wei Wuxian's home is no longer Lotus Pier it's the Cloud Recesses. He's accepted into the Lan Clan as Lan Wangji's partner.

The part of the story where Wei Wuxian takes Lan Wangji around Lotus Pier is really symbolic of him sharing his youth with Lan Wangji but also putting that chapter of his life to rest. Wei Wuxian sees his old living quarters have been torn down:

“Lan WangJi asked, “What is wrong?”

Wei WuXian shook his head, “Nothing. The place I lived in used to be here. Now it’s gone. It really was torn down. All of these are new.”

The atmosphere is on longer as warm and welcoming around Lotus Pier as he remembers it. Since the very first time in his new life that jc wants to kidnap him and take him to Lotus Pier (to torture/kill) WWX is aware that it won't match what he remembers. He doesn't want to go back to the tattered Lotus Pier of the present and now he sees it first hand:

“There aren’t many vendors left. Back then, no matter how late it was, this place was crammed with vendors, selling all kinds of food, because many people in Lotus Pier came out for late night snacks. There were also many boats, maybe even more than your Caiyi Town.” He continued, “It’s much fewer now. Lan Zhan, you came here too late. You weren’t here when it was at it was at its liveliest.”

Finally they make their way to the tree. The tree that WWX fell from when he was little on the night YanLi made him her soup for the first time, and he got along with jiang cheng for the first time- meaning the first night he probably felt some sense of belonging there:

“Wei WuXian, “But this one’s different! This was the first one I climbed after I came to Lotus Pier. I climbed it in the middle of the night. My shijie came out to search for me, holding a lantern. She was scared I’d fall down the tree, so she prepared to catch me on the ground. But what could she catch with her thin little arms? And so I still broke one of my legs.”

Only this time he leaps and falls into Lan Wangji's arms. Unlike YanLi LWJ catches him securely. Wei Wuxian entrusts himself fully into Lan Wangji's care, and Lan Wangji is strong enough to love and protect him wholly. They move on to their last stop in the Ancestral Hall so he can present LWJ to JFM and YZY, since he doesn't even have the ashes of his own parents, and as if things were not final enough jc busts in and effectively ends any (emotional) ties WWX might have still had to Lotus Pier.

“Lan WangJi, “How do you feel?!”

Wei WuXian didn’t answer the question, “Lan Zhan… Let’s go.” Go. Right now. Don’t ever come back again.

Lan WangJi, “Yes.”

That's pretty final. He reiterates that sentiment of leaving the past in the past in the Guanyin Temple, again while holding Lan Wangji's hand.

“Wei WuXian, “Uh, I think it’s best if you… also stop keeping it on your mind. I know you’ll definitely always keep it on your mind, but, how should I say it…” He clenched Lan WangJi’s hand, saying to Jiang Cheng, “Right now, I do really think… it’s all in the past. It’s been too long. There’s no need to struggle with it any longer.”

The donghua somehow, in spite of switching everything around, managed to captured the spirit of those two scenes very well and distilled it into one.

I too thought it did surprisingly well :)

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

[1/?] Sorry for venting. I just saw some bad takes that gave me a lot of feelings. Personally, JC stresses me out every time he comes on screen, but I don't mind it when JC fans say fan-typical things like how they like JC because he wears purple, or is grumpy, or they think he's hot, or that they ship x*ch*ng because the cql actors have nice jawlines. They're harmless, fun takes, and while I don't agree with some of them, I see where they're coming from

Hello there anon, vent away as that is what my blog is open for as I love/hate on Jiang Cheng as he is in the plot, as well as all of my beef with what has been done to him for the EN side of the fanbase! I am more than fine listening and engaging with the unsavory "unpopular" discussions of his canon behavior and this goes for anyone of course that needs an open play area. I'll try to engage with what you have sent point by point as succinctly as I can.

[2/?] (some of these are obviously crack, and I am a fan of a few problematic faves). But then there are stans that just have to put other characters down to make JC look good. Like, I think some fans take their freedom of interpretation for granted because most of these takes aren't even labeled 'headcanon,' 'ooc,' or 'crack' anymore. Stans feel that their interpretations are valid, and while they are, valid =/= canon, and they're treating these takes as canon, which becomes popular fanon.

I enjoy Jiang Cheng for what he is, however as I had said it took me another reread to get to my stance of him being the negative mirror to Lan Wangji's positive and my comfort with that for the story once I realized what purpose he served. He is only insofar tragic in regards to his circumstances, but it does not absolve him for what he is at his core (no pun, but I can make a very nice metaphor that even with a piece of Wei Wuxian in him he is still forever unable and unwilling to stand by him equally all while stagnating where as Lan Wangji is able to flourish, grow and mature with nothing of import left from Wei Wuxian in a technical sense). As for ships, I am a little dirty Xicheng whore for fun and can say there is a sense of entertainment for me making it work with two people where one is wildly ignorant and the other wildly rabid. But that is outside of what is established as canon in the work and I always try to keep the two strictly separate due to the skew fanon perpetuates.

3/?] And now, it's not clear what part of the fanon references canon JC or the canon events of mdzs. JC is an asshole; I don't like him as a person, but I do think that he's a complex character motivated by many issues (sup, YeeZY), which makes him fascinating to explore. Unfortunately, erasing his culpability also removes his agency. JC should be allowed to be an asshole character who makes his own decisions even if they're the wrong ones. He has made his own tragedy by constantly casting Wei Wuxian as the villain of his life.

Now thanks to you I will be using YeeZY to forever and now to acknowledge Madam Yu (this is your fault for the new tag). From a standing from storytelling I agree that he is complex in the Jianghu for MDZS. Where in the usual political intrigue of Wuxia, he would be the mustache twirling villain that is outright unforgivable in narration, it is by favor of Wei Wuxian's narration that has an early steeping of empathy for him. And he is not meant to be seen as ultimately sympathetic, the work builds up his hate against Wei Wuxian who tries to rationalize it all several times until he is finally unable to. Jiang Cheng is the antithesis to Lan Wangji and the false bait to get attached to in Wei Wuxian's first life. I will make the note their meeting in Yiling is lukewarm between both as they exchange nothing really in terms of conversation and all pleasantries are left in terms of Jiang Yanli for Wei Wuxian. By this point Wei Wuxian has already switched his yearnings of platonically wanting a part of Jiang Cheng's life, to subconscious romantic inclinations about Lan Wangji and the perceived loss of being in the other's life.

The very point of Jiang Cheng as the deconstruction, is that he has no passion in life despite his apparent exploits because he put a shadow to hang over himself as an excuse to say others think he is not good enough. He has no deeper motivations than pure selfishness by the end of the work and is pure frivolity that he has built up losing the meaning of his sect as a tradition. He had his agency (more than anyone I might add in the work due to his social position) that he used to build his reputation as a passive rich sect leader that has little to do with civilian problems.

4/?] And I think a JC, somehow, that realizes that he did something wrong and is working hard to change for the better and gain self-actualization to become that UWU best jiujiu the stans want him to be, who is ready to talk (not yell at) with WWX, apologize to him, and create a better, healthier relationship with him is a much more powerful reconciliation and happy ending than 'everyone is wrong and mean and they all apologize to JC, which magically gets rid of all his issues'.

He is forced out of culpability in reconciliation because simply put, his audience do not like the reality that relationships fray and dissolve with no further resolution other than we as adults both need to move on for safety and good health. It is not acceptable in real life and fiction is allowed to place that also in it's thematic relationships. He has a small, small spark of recognition at the end of the main story, however he himself seems to choose to ignore it, as change is hard and he has never taken to that well as was foreshadowed with his dogs and the idea of sharing a space with Wei Wuxian. To write this is an awful lot of work into his psyche which is not a nice place, he is a terrible being and downplaying that to make a sugar sweet person does not work instantaneously. He is the one responsible for the entire fallout with Wei Wuxian and he hysterically realizes that even as he tries to continue to blame Wei Wuxian.

The issue that I have with his current stan culture, is that they already view him as something he is not. They play at bicycle with all of the other protagonists that have positive traits that they strip as they see fit; Good affirming loving to children adult Lan Wangji, Self-sacrificing ultimately did it all for love and care Wei Wuxian, Hard exterior but softened to who they consider an annoyance Wen Qing, Loyal as partners in their exploits on the field and always have each others back Wen Ning. They even take Jin Guangyao's persona of playing damsel and using that as a positive to soften up Jiang Cheng into something he has never been for anyone for ships.

[5/5] Also, making WWX/WN/LWJ apologize just makes them look better than JC. Like, stans supposedly love JC, so they ahouldn't be lazy and work hard to give him actual character development. Again, I'm sorry for spamming your ask. It just really baffles me about where they get these 'hot' takes (All I'm going to say is that JC was ungrateful, and WN had a reason verbally dismantle him).

They see this, but, they will spin it in any way to excuse Jiang Cheng due to the story itself showing that he was in the wrong to everyone he flung accusations at and his hate. No one but him is at fault for his spite as he had gotten his revenge on the ones that had ruined Lotus Pier and killed his parents. His own resentment pitted him against good and well meaning people that he refused to help as he mimicked his mother's words about raising their heads higher out of goodness instead of keeping low and staying self-centered. There is the underlying criticism of taking individual arrogance as self-care at the cost of others. Each point that Wen Ning makes is exactly what Jiang Cheng himself knows as he hated Wei Wuxian for being something he could not be or even wanted to be. Jiang Cheng wants kindness but does not understand that kindness to others needs to be selfless and accept the hurt that can come with that in life. He encompasses the fall from the path of buddhist lifestyle, "The Three Poisons" to Wangxian's "Without Envy" at the stories end.

[6/5] P.S. I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it. I think it would be interesting to see what force of nature would push him through a character development because throwing a therapist at him would result in a murder.

"I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it."

They do not think he has to work for it, they say his tragedy is enough, while heaping accusations against Wei Wuxian and saying his own are not enough to absolve him. Something Wei Wuxian has never denied and told all present they are allowed to forever hate him for what he had done in the past, but that they need to find a way to live in a life that is always moving on. He learned that grudges do nothing once they are absolved and it leaves you with hate with nothing else to do with it once that object is gone. In terms of reconciliation, I do not ever think that either want anything other than a distant peaceful out of each other's life set up. Jiang Cheng does not need Wei Wuxian in his life to be satisfied and never has since he used him as the handicap to hide behind to stay angry and miserable. Being without that fallback opens the world far more for him to change than him ever interacting like an old friend with Wei Wuxian ever again, if he ever had the guts to do that.

[spockandawe]

Hi....If you don't mind me asking, who are your favorite MXTX characters (top 5 from each novel)? And why? I'm sorry if you've answered this question before.

It’s absolutely no problem at all!! I don’t think I’ve been asked this before, but hey, I also have zero object permanence, so it keeps things fresh and new. And it’s interesting to see how my answers change over time! Lemme see, I think I’m going to go in reverse order, because I feel like then I’ll be doing the worst agonizing up front.

TGCF

Fifth favorite: YIN. YU. I know that he’s a minor character and him even making it onto the list is pretty solid performance, but I do feel guilty that he isn’t higher than this. He came out of nowhere in my first reading and punched me in the stomach with emotions. I find his sections so hard to read, and I was DEVASTATED when he died and BEYOND stoked to find out he was still alive in the extras. His story hurts so much! I am weak against characters who have relatively modest goals and still see them snatched away (see also: my next entry) and have to struggle on. I wish wish wish I had a way to see more of how he made his peace with things after being thrown out of heaven, and the nature of the (distant) relationship with Hua Cheng and what happens with Quan Yizhen now that he died in his arms, and still came back anyways, my god!

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Fourth favorite:  He Xuannnnnn. I have a hard time articulating particulars, but. I love him a lot. I love a character with a grudge, with a deep, painful grudge, where the grudge is hurting him almost as much as it’s hurting the people around him, and setting the grudge aside would also hurt, and then what has any of this been for-- I've used this metaphor for other characters, but I don’t care if I’m overusing it, because I love it. He feels like a character caught in a thorn bush, where simply being there... hurts, but trying to escape or move in any ways is going to hurt worse, and there’s no path forward that doesn’t involve pain. And like... I don’t love the way he hurt Shi Qingxuan (who didn’t quite make this list adfasgdafsd I’M SORRY) but I wouldn’t have liked to see him swallow back down all that pain and set aside everything that happened to his family and fiancee either! I’m always, always soft for characters who have no good path forward and who grit their teeth and set out anyways.

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Third favorite: MU QING!!!!!!!!!! I have done... extensive screaming about him. And I love him veryvery much. I can already tell that this list is going to have a lot of mean boys on it, and like... no regrets. Especially since this is one of my FAVORITE flavors, an unapologetic mean boy who is rarely (but sometimes!) soft for the people around him, and who regularly tries to do decently by people, but who consistently gets shat upon and misunderstood and accused of acting in bad faith. I screamed when he and Xie Lian finally got to talk their friendship out in the book. I also screamed when I realized how immediately after Xie Lian’s return he started looking out for him again, and how sincerely, despite his horrible attitude about it. I still want to write more fic for him so badly. I love him so much.

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Second favorite: Xie Lian! What a good boy! The best boy! He’s so sweet and gentle, but also the best fightboy this world has ever seen, and also so gently snarky with the people he loves! I just... really love me some traumatized characters who have trouble recognizing that they can be Loved, and I’m not going to write this whole essay right now, but I think in some ways, he’s the most... passive about his romance, out of all the leads? Shen Qingqiu is aggressively oblivious, but Xie Lian kind of gently shrugs off the idea that he might be Hua Cheng’s special someone, until he finally gets hit with the cluestick. I generally shy away from the idea of a character “earning” love, but he’s maybe the mxtx character who moves me most with ‘you deserve to be loved’

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Most favorite: Hua Cheng. HUA CHENG. Oh my god, gotta love this boy. Gotta love this devotion. I love a mean boy who is soft for one person, and he EMBODIES it. I mean, I love Shen Jiu, but he barely manages to do the soft thing at all, while Hua Cheng is over here like ‘if I could only be the stone beneath your feet--’ It’s hard to talk about him separately from Xie Lian, because they’re a unit in my head more than just about any other characters on this list are. I don’t want to get this list to get out of control, so I’m not going to scream for too long, but... I could just watch him go forever. I want to write him forever, and that’s a huge aspect of what draws me to some characters.

MDZS

Oh god, I think I lied, I think this book is going to be hardest. Making these choices is AGONIZING.

Fifth favorite: .....Lan Wangji. Oh god, I feel bad about how low he is. But this story is just packed SO full of wonderful characters, and I’m already consumed with guilt over all the characters who aren’t going to make it. I don’t love them less! But my love for characters in this particular story is very evenly distributed. And I think that Wang Yibo’s acting is possibly scoring points with me that the book might not have earned all by itself. Microexpressions and subtle body language add SO MUCH to a character with such flat affect, and I would be drawn to such a closed-off character anyways, but it really helps. And I love, like... the combined subtlety and intensity of his relationships. It’s not that subtle once you know what to look for, and the brother/sworn brother network makes for varying degrees of how much other characters understand of the things he chooses not to explicitly express, and it gives a really interesting character to the way he interacts with the people around him. Also, love me a man with intense separation anxiety.

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Fourth favorite: Jiang Yanli? I think it has to be Jiang Yanli, but these rankings are hard. So. I just talked about how much I enjoy the flat affect and closed off nature of Lan Wangji? Well, guess what, I also love it when m’girl is just very GENUINELY AND OPENLY an absolute sweetheart of a person, and I love the contrast between her genuinely kind nature and the uncomfortable pressure that her family’s dynamics put on her to start parenting at a very young age. It’s not necessarily a happy situation, but she adores her brothers so much and they adore her so much! And it’s... a very understated element of the story, but after her parents died, her baby brothers went off to war, and one wreaked havoc as a straightforward commander and one of them disappeared for months and returned as a creepy-ass zombie puppeteer. And she STILL dotes on them like before, despite knowing what they’re capable of. Like, yes, Wei Wuxian just raised an army of corpses and forced a man to eat himself, but I shall still boop him on the nose and feed him Soup. How can I not adore energy like that?

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Third favorite: Wei Wuxian, I think. I do adore him a lot. He gives me some of the same vibes that make me ache most with Xie Lian, where he is trying his best, and is struggling to hold on in the face of lots of suffering, and I find it really interesting that when the suffering peaked, Xie Lian was forced go on because he couldn’t die, while Wei Wuxian... expired. That line about ‘he thought that no matter how large the world was, there was still no place for him’ always sticks with me, and hurts me deeply. Xie Lian had most of his personal attachments stripped away, and was left to wander on his own, while Wei Wuxian still had a number of strong connections left, but abruptly exited life. And that informs their respective trauma so interestingly! The way Wei Wuxian bounces between high energy chaos and drained exhaustion is really fascinating to me, and was the thread that held me attached to the book through a very confusing beginning. And I’m still very drawn to how intensely he loves, whether it’s Xiao Zhan’s fantastic acting, or it’s him busting out with how much he wants Lan Wangji in the middle of the Guanyin Temple scene. He’s a fantastic character, honestly, I don’t think such a convoluted book would have held together very well without a protagonist this strong.

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Second favorite: Xue Yang :X Look, he’s a good boy and I love him. Who among us hasn’t done a few mass murders that we are completely unrepentant about, but that we would really like to keep hidden from our current boyfriend, actually? Anyways, as always, love me an angry boy who makes terrible decisions for understandable reasons. And I do love a character who is consumed by agonized ragrets (see my next entry), but I DO also love me a character who has no regrets at all and doesn’t even have much interest in trying to justify himself to anyone else around him. Just look at that confidence! Look at him go!!

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Most favorite: Jiang... Cheng....... I knew he and Xue Yang were going to be at the top, but those were the only parts of this list that were easy. I mean. Love a self-sabotaging angryboy who is also super super sad and keeps hurting himself in his own confusion. And while I love the romantic thread in all of the mxtx books, the agonized family thread in mdzs is one of my favorite parts, and something that I don’t really see echoed in any of the other stories. I need ten million jc+wwx reconciliations, at LEAST. He’s so sad! And so angry! And I want to see him becoming less of that thing, and for Jin Ling and Wei Wuxian to demonstrate very firmly how much they love him, because they do. I am invested in his happiness in a way that goes far and beyond any of the other non-main characters, haha

SVSSS

Fifth favorite: Tianlang-jun. I think? Oh god, but moshang. THIS IS REALLY HARD, I HATE THIS ;-; But especially since writing my fic, Tianlang-jun has really won me over. And like, he already hurt me good in the novel, just thinking about how he was an innocent young guy, just! Trying to have a girlfriend! And instead got trapped in sensory deprivation, body-rotting-hell for twenty years, when he didn’t do anything wrong!!! He suffered, so much! And I live for his intensely strained relationship with Luo Binghe, because it’s! Perfectly understandable and painful, from both of their perspectives! And he wants to hate humans so badly, but in the end, when he’s told that Su Xiyan never betrayed him, he starts helplessly asking the people around him, ‘really? is it really true?’ and then in the end he loses the only family member he has left who cares about him, and it’s just! Everything is terrible! I have a su xiyan au brewing in my head because I can’t stand it! Someone just give this man a loving partner!!!

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Fourth favorite: Shen Qingqiu. But... moshang??? Goddammit. Anyways, this dumbass. I find him so endearing, in his dumbassery. I sometimes get a bit frustrated with Wei Wuxian for being oblivious, and Shen Qingqiu is just asking for me to react the same way, but I... don’t, for the most part? Because he thinks he has good information, and he’s slow to react to a changing playing field, and I still haven’t read another transmigration novel that strikes the same balance of hypercompetence and intense incompetence :ppp It’s a funny book, and he’s a funny character! And I really vibe with him, in most parts of the story, which covers a pretty darn wide emotional spectrum. Plus, the running internal commentary is choice.

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Third favorite: Liu Qingge. Look, I’m a woman of simple needs, and sometimes I just need a high-quality fightboy who clearly cares deeply and is absolute garbage at expressing his emotions. I can’t articulate it much better than that. I absolutely howl at the succubus extra, when Shen Qingqiu is talking to Madam Meiyin about his future partner, and Liu Qingge is like ‘oh my god, sHE IS CLEARLY DESCRIBING ME’ and Shen Qingqiu is like ‘haha, liu-shidi, i thought you thought this was stuupidddddddd’. They’re both so dumb. I love them so much. But stupidity plus war god fighting energy has a narrow lead over stupidity and internal commentary track.

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Second favorite: SHEN JIU. GOD. I’m still arguing with myself over whether he should go first, but Luo Binghe hurts me consistently through the whole entire story, so I think he wins. Shen Jiu just stabs me in the heart at strategic moments. This is it. My ideal mean boy who is soft for one (1) person, and who BOTH does unconscionable things for terrible reasons (someone just. give him a pile of girls to teach, it will be much more pleasant for everyone involved), and who ALSO gets blamed for things he didn’t do even when he tries to act in good faith. It is the best of all painful worlds. And even at the end, when he has a powerful person who wants desperately to protect him, he still tries his hardest to shove that person away, to keep him safe. I’ve got like four aus where he gets to live. I’m so invested in this character, I love him so much.

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Most favorite: Luo Binghe. He was.... made for me............ Like, the overwhelming amounts of childhood angst were baked in by Shang Qinghua, but the in-story pain and suffering is PRECISELY my jam. I love a character with separation anxiety! I love a character with massive anxieties over being unwanted! Over nobody ever, EVER just choosing him! I love a character struggling with the idea that the person he loves most in the world thinks that he’s intrinsically Disgusting! I love the kind of stubborn determination that leads him to preserve a corpse for five years, desperately hoping for a way to revive it, constantly cooking fresh food, in case, in case he someday wakes up. The way Hua Cheng loves is overpowering, but he’s had time to like... learn to be mellow when he needs to be. Luo Binghe doesn’t have a chill bone in his body, and if he’s acting chill, it’s probably because he’s done some mental math and decided that being more clingy right now will probably get him pushed away harder. I love the combination of manipulative tendencies and a very, very genuine fear of rejection and being unwanted. There is nothing I don’t love about Luo Binghe, including his worst decisions. I love him so so much.

[butterflydm]

The Untamed Rewatch (ep 4)

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aka Rules, Rules, Rules

things that stood out this rewatch under the read more (spoilers for entire series; mostly drama only as I haven't read the novel translation yet and only know what I've seen bouncing around online):

We start off with Wei Wuxian running off so as not to miss the greeting ceremony (the 'salute' I think it was called in the tencent translation). We get a lot of sort of subtle (well, until we get to the Wens) introductions to character and relationship interactions and also to the general atmosphere of Gusu. They have… a lot of rules. Some people really thrive on rules and structure and some people, well, don't. The trouble with WWX and the The Rules is that he already has his own moral center in place that conflicts with the rules. He grew up under a very different set of rules and — from what some of the characters says — he was in a complicated situation of being both privileged and favored while at the same time reminded that he was considered not on the same level as Jiang Cheng. Regardless, very different type of rules than the ones in place at Gusu.

Our introduction to Nie Huaisang and Meng Yao is actually fairly sad in retrospect, in that it contains some narrative irony — first of all, that they came together (because Meng Yao is working as the 'vice envoy' for the Nie clan, I believe it says?). And they're just both so young here and things could have gone so differently. Nie Huaisang is also introduced breaking the rules by bringing in his little bird. 

I absolutely did NOT figure out that Nie Huaisang was the fan guy from episode one in my first viewing, btw. I think I didn't realize it until we were way back into the present timeline. I have a ton of love for him, though, which I touched on in my very first post — he's smart and a good liar who knows his own strengths and weaknesses. He had an incredibly weak hand of cards at the start of his revenge play and so it took him time but he figured out how to get justice for his brother even against the person who was, literally, in the strongest position in the cultivation world. Five stars, very impressed. 

As much as I love Nie Huiasang, I also genuinely love Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao. He's interesting and complicated and we see enough of what hurt him that I do understand why he behaves the way he does (as I understand it, it's even more morally grey in the novel, which I'm looking forward to seeing when I read the translation). I certainly don't blame any of his victims for taking revenge against him, but wow, what a fascinating person. 

I think it's the last flashback we get of him, after Jin Guangshan had him thrown off the tower steps, where we see him in obvious pain but still forcing himself to stand up, smile, and bow towards the person who just had him hurt… I think of that moment every time I see him now, honestly. And he is just such a person of extremes and powerful emotions and yet his mask is always on so tightly that we only ever get glimpses of what he's really feeling underneath it. While WWX can appear lawless to people like Lan Qiren but actually does have a strong sense of right and wrong (whether or not he always lives up to it, he tries), JGY genuinely is willing to throw any and all moral rules away in an attempt to protect and advance himself. So he mirrors and contrasts against both of the leading men.

Of course, this is also the beginning of something I found myself tragically shipping over the course of The Untamed. Ah, XiYao. Meng Yao does some terrible things over the course of the story. For someone who comes across as self-effacing, he actually has a fierce ability to hold grudges and extract revenge for slights against him. 

But his introduction here is very sympathetic, as we hear some students gossiping about him (quieted by Lan Qiren) and then see Lan Xichen step forward to publicly praise him in an attempt to lessen the impact of the gossip. There's some significant eye contact and subtle touching and I am weak. And we know that Meng Yao does latch onto Lan Xichen here in a way that he does with literally no other character, in that this is the one person he isn't willing to sacrifice for his own reputation and life. It's not a hugely healthy relationship, on both sides, but it is very interesting.

The whole Wen incursion here is, I believe, a drama-only thing? As I understand it, a large part of what the drama does is try to set things up early to give the central characters more time to know each other (and, also, More Romance with literally everyone which, as a romance fan, I do not object to). So, we're introduced to the Wens bullying their way into the lessons (though I'm not sure we see Wen Qing actually attend a single lesson? I will keep an eye out; I actually don't remember how many lessons we end up seeing) in the middle of the ceremony. They use this scene both to show Wen Chao's behavior but also to set up his dislike of Wei Wuxian early because WWX is, of course, the person who stands against Wen Chao directly and challenges him. This is the first chance that Jin Zixuan would have to notice that WWX is Just Like That in general, rather than being like that specifically with him, but it's a distracting enough moment that I will not blame him for probably not noticing.

Things during the face-off that stood out to me in particular:

    I think they do a good job characterizing Wen Chao as a realistic bully — when he has power, he abuses it, but when he's powerless later on, we see him being petulant and pitiful (and still demanding). He's a bully in part because he knows he can get away with it because of his father's power.

    Lan Wangji wants to Fight but looks to his brother and listens when his brother indicates that he should refrain. Young Lan Wangji is just Ready To Fight at all times, but he's also very obedient to his elder brother.

    In contrast to this and not for the last time, Wei Wuxian jumps in to verbally spar against someone without ever looking at Jiang Wanyin to get permission. Though WWX's relationship with Jiang Wanyin is complicated in ways that Lan Wangji's isn't with his own brother. Lan Xichen is both sect leader and the eldest, while WWX is, I think, older than Jiang Wanyin (he's definitely the 'elder disciple'). But it does hint that their plan for the future, where WWX was Jiang Cheng's second in command, was never going to work long-term. Their personalities and their established relationship both work against that plan. WWX is a natural leader; we see him take point and take command over and over in the course of the series. When he believes he sees the right thing to do, he just does it. He doesn't ask permission first. When the Wens draw swords, WWX is the first one to draw in return and the others who do follow his lead, including Jiang Wanyin. And WWX does, I think, instinctively think of Jiang Cheng as his 'little brother' that ultimately he needs to protect for that reason, which is a different kind of protection that you would do for your leader.

One of the Jiang disciples who draws a sword is a woman. We don't get as many female disciples/cultivators as we do men but they are there and there are some important ones. Though none that I can think of in the present timeline, as opposed to the past one, apart from briefly seeing MianMian again. I will keep a look out when we get back to the present.

    Meng Yao shields Nie Huaisang similarly to how Jiang Cheng shields Jiang Yanli (though Meng Yao doesn't have a sword). It really must have been devastating for Nie Huaisang to realize that Jin Guangyao killed his brother, because Nie Huaisang did have reasons to trust him and believe he was 'like family' in a similar way to how Wei Wuxian was family to the Jiang clan.

    Wen Qing seems more like she's holding Wen Ning back than she's shielding him. It's interesting. It might be part of her playing cool in front of Wen Chao. Not certain. We haven't gotten to see Wen Ning's personality much so far, except that he's relatively timid.

    They make a point of showing us how impressed Meng Yao is with Lan Xichen playing to diffuse the situation and disarm everyone.

I love this dynamic. We only really get it for a short time, considering, but Nie Huaisang's open admiration of WWX does set up some positive ulterior motives for him wanting to bring back WWX specifically to help him get revenge on his brother. Not just that he believes WWX to be the most capable but also that, though he might never have said it openly, but perhaps he believes that WWX deserved a second chance at life. And poor long-suffering Jiang Wanyin, who knows — just knows! — that having an admirer probably means WWX will get into even more trouble than he would have otherwise.

And, you know, that's probably true.

Meng Yao is literally just waiting around for Lan Xichen to get out of his meeting with Lan Qiren so that he can say goodbye to him specifically (the meeting had a lot of plot stuff, but some good characterization in showing that Lan Xichen and Lan Qiren are wary about Wen clan's intentions but determined to hold to their own standards and ideals anyway).  

So, this tiny tiny smile of Meng Yao's that we see him have right before he heads over to say goodbye to Lan Xichen is probably about a thousand times more sincere than all the big dimpled smiles we get later. No one is looking at him yet, he's just smiling because he's glad he has a chance to say goodbye to this one specific person who publicly singled him out as worthy despite what the gossiping people were saying. I think that it happened in public actually meant a great deal to Meng Yao? WWX is kind to him later on, in the Unclean Realm, but that's in private and it doesn't seem to have the same kind of emotional impact. Meng Yao's reputation means so much to him, so LXC openly stating Meng Yao's worth in front of the entire group of students and Lan Qiren is something that not only affects him personally but something that can positively affect his reputation as well, which means it affects him personally even more than it would otherwise.

At the end of this conversation, Meng Yao bows deeply to Lan Xichen and Lan Xichen doesn't only stop him from doing it, but directly calls them peers. And it's hard for Meng Yao to leave! Once he turns away from Lan Xichen, we can see in his face that it's difficult. And, of course, there's the lingering touch that comes for my life. The Lan brothers and their silent heartbreaks, I swear.

(why am I like this, honestly? This is like me getting into Steven Universe because I saw Garnet's "Stronger Than You" and then ending up having my heart repeatedly ripped in two by the tragedy of Pearl and Rose; and, like, I adore Rupphire. But sometimes my heart just wants a tragedy between two people who just didn't quite know the right ways to love each other, I guess!)

So! (and this is just rampant speculation that I will never get answers on because, again, I believe none of this is in the novel but) I wonder how long Meng Yao was originally planning on staying? Because Lan Xichen is surprised he's leaving so soon, and he'd had a seat right behind Nie Huaisang at the greeting ceremeny, so it seems like him leaving immediately was more prompted by his realization that even in the Cloud Recesses, he wasn't going to be able to escape the whispers about his parentage. In the drama, they mostly likely just wanted to introduce him to the audience and to Lan Xichen, but he didn't fit into the other plans they had for this section of the story, so they had him head off, but internal to the character and not taking the behind the scenes stuff into account, it seems like he was planning on staying longer, initially.

WWX and Nie Huaisang's scene together is adorable, and it's super-cute to see them having such innocent fun times. It does contrast strongly against WWX's scene right after with Wen Qing. He plays the fool with her, but it is obvious play-acting and not true light-heartedness the way it was with Nie Huaisang moments earlier. So we get to see two sides of WWX there, the genuine playfulness and the pretend playfulness as he tries to figure out what Wen Qing is doing. There's a lot of subtle things going on with the facial acting that makes it clear when he's being genuine and when he's playing pretend that I enjoy.

Now it's the night of that same day, and Jiang Yanli has made soup for her brothers. I'm trying to remember if we ever actually see Jiang Yanli eat, because I know she doesn't eat anything here (theory: she eats while she's cooking and thus is full when it comes time to actually sit down for the meal? my mom does that sometimes when she's done a lot of cooking). I'm going to keep an eye on that because I'm genuinely curious. Jiang Cheng is stressing out over WWX, again, because it's pretty much his self-appointed job tbh. Jiang Yanli just wants him to chill and accept that WWX is WWX. 

Another thing Jiang Cheng says here is something that resonates through his storyline with WWX: when will WWX take Yunmeng's Jiang clan into consideration? That's the tension line between WWX and Jiang Cheng for large parts of their flashback plotline together — Jiang Cheng wants WWX to be devoted to Jiang clan, but WWX keeps considering other things to be just as important. Because WWX doesn't ever treat Jiang clan as unimportant but he doesn't always treat it as the most important. And, to Jiang Cheng, it is absolutely the most important thing. Which makes perfect sense for him to feel, as he's the heir, so he has to consider the future of the clan and weigh it against the risks of acting. We see Lan Xichen do the same — he has to think about the politics, the optics of the situation. And that's something that WWX rarely thinks about ahead of time or, if he does, it's to scorn the idea that the optics should matter.

When Jiang Yanli points out that WWX's behavior actually fits their clan history and motto, this takes us to another puzzle piece of that tension — Jiang Cheng's jealousy. Here, it's not so bad. It comes and goes, depending on the situation. But WWX is naturally talented and also lives up to the clan's motto effortlessly, so again it's very understandable that Jiang Cheng feel jealous, honestly. Not always pretty, but understandable.

We do some time skipping, as everyone attends class (I do not see Wen Qing anywhere in the class when I look, so she's not trying all that hard at the 'undercover' part of her undercover spying — or maybe she changed into white robes too and that's why I can't spot her) and WWX is a brat and the class clown. Almost everyone but Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan seem amused by him. Lan Wangji is definitely way more annoyed by WWX at this point than anything else, because it looks to him like WWX isn't willing to take things seriously. And I'm pretty sure Jin Zixuan thinks that WWX as just as arrogant as WWX thinks that JZX is, which is kinda funny.

We also get the first appearance of one of WWX's cute lil papermen. They're so adorable, as is the little 'nodding off to sleep' thing he does with them. Luckily, Lan Qiren snaps him out of it before Lan Wangji crumples the paperman, because I think from what they say later on, that was actually kinda dangerous if he'd still been inside it.

Lan Qiren, after catching WWX out on not paying attention in class, quizzes him. WWX is able to answer all his straight-forward questions easily and is obviously proud of himself, so Lan Qiren gives him a more challenging one, a question that deals with the practicalities of actually being a cultivator and making the choices that they need to make in these cases of literal life and death. And so we get our first mentions in the flashback of using resentful energy/demonic cultivation. Again, laying the groundwork for later, but doing it while also showing us character and relationship dynamics, which I like. Lan Qiren is really pissed off at WWX's suggestion to use resentful energy, to the point of throwing something at him (there's probably a rule against that) and kicking him out of class for the day.

Lan Wangji, of course, is the student who provides the model-perfect answer of what is correct according to 'proper' cultivation. What I really like about this section is that when Wei Wuxian challenges the idea of the proper method of cultivation, Lan Wangji actually interrupts his uncle so that he can answer Wei Wuxian back (I don't think he noticed that he was interrupting his uncle; he just really really had to correct Wei Wuxian; it was Vitally Important). Wei Wuxian, though, directs his response back to Lan Qiren. I do feel for Lan Qiren here. You get the impression that a student has never kept arguing back to him for so long and he gets so flustered over it (and over what Wei Wuxian is actually saying too, of course).

One of the things that does make WWX's behavior different than, say, Jin Guangyao is that WWX doesn't keep his methods a secret. He doesn't try to hide the 'how' of what he's doing, even when he knows everyone will disdain him for it. He owns it, essentially, which he what he says to Lan Wangji way in the future during the episode where Lan Wangji is drunk — he made his choices and he will live with the consequences and it's no one else's responsibility.

I do understand, from what I've read, that WWX is softened a bit in the drama — some things that are his responsibility in the novel aren't his fault here — but we see here that he was already aware of and willing to go down this road of cultivating resentful energy so in that, at least, the intention is there from the start. And Lan Qiren points out that there's the essential problem that Wei Wuxian doesn't know how to actually keep the resentful energies from causing collateral damage, and WWX doesn't have an answer for that.

And then, of course, WWX does not actually go to the library to copy the rules, as Lan Qiren ordered, but goes off to the forbidden back area with the lakes and waterfalls instead. So, you know, good call on sending Wangji to go babysit him tbh.

But it means that WWX gets to meet Wen Ning!

It's a super-cute meeting where WWX sees Wen Ning's great archery skills and compliments him, and then tells Wen Ning to think of them as equals. Wen Ning is apparently younger than everyone else, because he's too young to be a student at the lessons. I think the rest of them are supposed to be fifteen? That's what I've seen floating around online, but I'm not sure they ever say it on-screen. And WWX is a little embarrassed to say he was kicked out by the teacher, which is interesting.

And I guess we do get evidence here that Wen Qing is not attending class, because WWX is only not in class right now because he was kicked out.

The next scene is a 'cliffhanger' that gets reprised in the opening of episode 5, so I'll talk about then. This one is already really long (I say, as if it's likely they'll get shorter, lol).

Next time: Lan Zhan and Wei Ying get some private time in the library together!

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