#the cluster that is bftc

[kindlingkeen]

I see a lot of references in fics that say dick sent Jason to Arkham, but I haven’t been able to find a canon comic that shows that no matter how hard I search. Is this actually a canon thing? If you know

Hi anon, the answer is yes, but with a whole bunch of qualifiers.

So this all takes place for the most part while Morrison was writing Jason (*shudders and retches*). Jason is not the anti-hero we meet in the Under the Hood. He’s a completely unhinged villain. Like off his rocker, so out of character there’s no way it’s actually Jason Todd. I mean he’s drawn with orange-red hair and wearing what looks like an inflated red condom on his head—can you get any more OOC???

This is in the aftermath of Bruce’s “death” and after the Battle for the Cowl events where Jason was running around Gotham as a murder-happy Batman killing criminals and beating down the Bats on the regular. He’s basically just being used as a prop for Dick to have a villain to fight, with no real consideration given to Jason’s actual character.

Dick eventually beats him and takes up the mantle as Batman, which Jason does not take very well. Cue more crazy pants behavior and violent murdering. Eventually Batman!Dick bests him again and tries to offer help…

Which Jason predictably refuses …

And Dick ends up turning Jason over to Gordon.

Off to Arkham Jason goes, although technically it’s the legal system that sends him there. This all takes place in Batman and Robin (2009) #6.

If you skip ahead to Batman and Robin (2009) #23, Jason’s been in Arkham for a couple of months and he wants out. Bruce is back from the dead and insists Jason’s in Arkham for his own safety.

Dick also feels that Jason should be kept in Arkham, but again for his safety (this panel is confusing because Dick and Bruce, the big dorks, are both dressed as Batman while having a conversation with each other).

But Jason gets his way and gets transferred to Gotham City Corrections.

Once there he kills a bunch of guys, gets himself transferred back to Arkham, and en route escapes/gets broken out.

So there you have it.

I’ll just end by saying that many of the fics I’ve read that reference Dick sending Jason to Arkham also reference the Joker being there and Jason being traumatized by exposure to the Joker.

As far as I know, there’s nothing in the comics that shows this to be true. I also haven’t seen anything in the comics that explicitly states the Joker was elsewhere. So until someone points me in the direction of that comic (pls do if you’re in the know!), I think the idea of Jason and the Joker in Arkham together can still be considered fair game (I mean he wasn’t an active Gotham villain during that arc, so where was he, on holiday in Aruba?).

Thanks for the ask, anon! Hopefully this clears things up for you! 💙

[glitter-stained]

In conclusion:

My issue in general in Btfc is that people with BPD, especially during episodes, (and people with mental illness in general) are so much more of a risk to themselves than to other people (and also very much at risk of being hurt by other people), that those episodes are so painful, and instead of focusing on that pain, the story is focusing on how horrible and terrible and how much of a danger to the normal, sane population Jason is, killing so many people because he’s “crazy evil”. When writing about mental illness, you have to focus on this pain; it’s crucial to humanize people with mental illness (as in fight the dehumanization they’ve been facing), especially people with cluster B disorders (like bpd) and put the focus back to the fact they’re suffering and need help rather than treating them on the basis of their real or imaginary impact on society. So I’d guess my advice on writing Btfc Jason would be: do research on BPD (especially the topics I highlighted), on CPTSD, build a “logic” for Jason’s behaviour over the mechanics of his dysfunctional thoughts, centre that mechanic around his trauma and how it’s eating him up uncontrollably like a forest fire, don’t let the narrative validate other heroes’ actions if they’re psychophobic. And everything I said about psychophobia and tragic backstories also stands. Why is Jason killing people? Yeah, he’s having a BPD episode, but people with BPD don’t usually shoot children, I promise you that isn’t a typical sign of BPD (and neither is it a sign of PTSD). I’m completely fine with Jason killing people because he thinks it’s right and the person who was stopping him from doing so is dead, and Jason putting on the cowl because he’s mirroring/splitting/having a psychotic break/ going through an intense episode in general, and Dick being rightfully upset that Jason is killing people while calling himself Batman. The point I wanna hammer in DC writers in general is that the mental illness does not explain the violence and villainy, so I guess the important part would be to have a clear, explicit explanation to Jason’s thought process and actions that does not stem from the disorder itself. Sure, they can interact: for example if the answer is “utilitarianism”, then the black and white thinking from the bpd/cptsd can totally influence Jason’s way of conceptualizing and enacting utilitarianism; but at the end of the day, he’s killing people because of a moral philosophy. And it’s also worth having an explanation as to where this moral philosophy came from, what lessons he was taught and why they stuck the way they did, etc. You don’t have to include all that stuff in the story; what’s important is that it’s clear to you, the writer, and that the lack of causality between the mental illness and the villainy is clear in your story. It’s like that writing advice when they tell you to make lists of things your character likes even if you’re not gonna include them in the story in a way. And, finally, again, you probably are not gonna be able to avoid considering the question of responsibility.

So, that’s all the advice I have; I sincerely hope you got it on time, and it was enough. I don’t know if it is, because when it comes to rewriting I feel like Bftc is around the limits of my skills as a writer, but it’s a really interesting challenge to attempt, and I’m excited to see what you come up with if you’re willing to share. Also, idk if I say enough how much I appreciate this kind of ask, the fact that you’re putting in the effort makes me so so happy!! I wish some DC writers put as much thought and care into the comics as fanfic writers are because y’all are dedicated and it’s a real pleasure to see it.

I'm writing a Jason Vs Dick fic for a secret santa exchange...

The prompt has the fic set during the Battle for the cowl arc - Jason is the villain. He's delusional (the dyeing his hair thing never really happened - he dyed his black hair red) and seriously messed up. It is a pretty dark fic.

Basically Jason knows on some level how badly messed up he is. He wants Dick to be his Robin, because he believes that it was Robin Dick who saved Bruce from darkness. He wants Dick (who is already juggling too much responsibility) to do the same for him... Be the light to his darkness...

Saw your posts about the BTFC arc in particular and mentally ill villains in general.

Any suggestions on how to handle the BtFC Jason?

...don’t ?

No, wait, listen. I know I said “write what you want as long as it’s self-aware”, it’s just you’ve chosen to write an absolute nightmare of a minefield to be self-aware about. I believe it’s possible to write Btfc fanfics that aren’t psychophobic, I just think it must be incredibly hard; Btfc is my second least favourite comic because all of it is soaked and drenched in psychophobia and I wish with all of my heart for dc to continue ignoring it and hopefully bury it under layers and layers of retcon until it’s less significant to Jason’s modern characterization than Waldo the clown (no hate on Waldo, he was much better than anything about Btfc though). So, I can give you advice for sure, I’m just concerned it will not be enough, because I wouldn’t trust myself to write a non-psychophobic Btfc fic, but you sure can try!

The core issue about Btfc (and any villainous characterization of Jason) is that, at the difference of other characters like the Joker, there’s a strange kind of coherence to it. For all we talk about Jason sometimes acting OOC, he’s reliably showing symptoms of BPD, like, to me, it’s pretty blatant. The difference between UTH and BiB or Btfc isn’t that he has BPD in one and not the other, it’s that BiB and Btfc are much more brutally psychophobic renditions of BPD than UTH (though UTH isn’t fully clean either). In other words, Btfc is a violent caricature of Borderline Personality Disorder. I’m not sure if this is on purpose, because on the one hand, it’s so consistent I feel like someone at dc told the writers “Jason has bpd” and they all ran with their caricatural representation of the disorder, or (because I don’t wanna underestimate dc’s ignorance regarding mental disorders) if they just read about him, thought “hey, he kinda fits into that subtype of stereotypical mental illness I have in mind” and projected their stereotypes about BPD about him without even knowing those are BPD stereotypes. The end result is the same: bpd on a spectrum from “almost well written” to “nastiest rep I’ve ever read”.

Now in Btfc (just as in UTH or BiB tbh) I’d say Jason is splitting, having an episode in which his BPD symptoms are flaring up completely. This can absolutely include brief psychotic episodes, and tbh the part you mentioned about dyeing his hair I can totally get behind. And because you’re writing Jason in the middle of a particularly intense episode, you can’t make the economy of considering the question of moral responsibility. If Jason is committing morally reprehensible actions as a consequence of the disordered patterns in the context of the episode, whether we’re talking about splitting or delusion or disordered thought patterns, you have to consider the question of responsibility, and on a spectrum. You also have to identify who is deciding those actions are morally reprehensible (is it Dick? The law? You, the author? The anticipated reader? All of them?) and whether you expect this judge is passed on the action, the person, or, who knows, even the disorder itself. And of course consider the implications of that fact. (For example, it’s completely possible for Dick, in the context he’s grown and developed in, and considering the insane stress he’s under, to be psychophobic as fuck; and obviously, writing a character doing something doesn’t mean that you support it, but if Jason is the villain and Dick is a hero and Dick is being psychophobic you should pay attention to whether the narrative is implying that Dick is right to be psychophobic about it.)