#the REAL misogynists and sexists are treated with genuine hatred

[clytemnestradidnothingwrong]

"Intersex people"

"Intersex" people are not "LGBT". Their condition does not make them part of the gay community. "Intersex" disorders are just that - disorders. Our spaces are not catch all for everyone you deem "abnormal". Stop using their serious medical conditions to prop up your misogynistic, homophobic, and science denying ideology.

"-Two-spirit gays and other culturally connected gays"

From what I've read, "two-spirit" wasn't even a thing until the 1990s, and many Native American tribes don't have much to do with that concept.

"-Gender nonconforming people"

This is actually why we're cutting the TQ out. We're sick of you vile homophobes medicalizing and pathologizing gender non-conformity. Gender non-conforming people are statistically more likely to be homosexual. We will not let you destroy the bodies and minds of gays and lesbians with your sexist, homophobic bullshit anymore.

"-Those who are questioning their sexuality"

If they realize they're actually homosexual or bisexual, then they're not cut out anymore, are they?

"-Gays, lesbians, and bi's who are supportive of trans people"

LGB isn't a goddamn club. If you're homosexual or bisexual, then you're homosexual or bisexual. It has nothing to do with whether you support your pink and blue oppressors or not. They're still part of the demographic by virtue of their innate sexual orientation and ONLY by their innate sexual orientation.

"-Millions of kind, loving, supportive humans who have gone through indescribable, traumatic abuse and wish to build a safe, welcoming community"

I'm assuming this is about "trans" people and their allies. Well, this is pure sugary crap that's about to give me another cavity. "Trans" people and their allies are NOT kind. You are NOT loving. You are NOT supportive. You are NOT interested in building a "safe, welcoming community":

And you know it.

"Why are you so eager to exclude and belittle people?"

I could ask you the same question, since the TQ is notorious for bullying, ostracizing, abusing, and attacking anyone who questions or criticizes them.

"Why do you tell them they 'don't know what real struggle looks like' when their healthcare, their future, and their lives are under attack?"

Because "trans" people DON'T know what real struggle looks like. Your "oppression" is entirely self-created. Being "trans" is a CHOICE. You could just be yourself - embrace who you were born as and stop obsessing over traditional gender roles and porn - and all your experiences of "transphobia" would evaporate into thin air.

Women, gays, people of color, people with disabilities - we don't get that. We don't get to choose to not be gay or female or another race or disabled one day and make all the homophobia and misogyny and racism and ableism stop.

"Do you truly value 'love', or do you just want to swat away as many people as possible?"

Do you? You treat anyone who doesn't think like you like garbage, and you treat those who do think like you even worse.

"Why do you continue to hide under a rock and dig yourself deeper into festering hatred, when you can simply come out and support people who can help you?"

You don't help us. You hurt us. That's why we want you GONE. It's completely normal to despise those who destroy everything you hold dear, pretend to be you while demonizing your innate sexuality as a perverted fetish, rewrite your history, and make manipulative, gaslighting posts like this.

"Wouldn't it be easier to unite with our trans and nonbinary friends to help defeat the growing threat of genuine fascism in our country? "

You are not our goddamn friends. You've spent the past few decades DIVIDING us and making everyone hate homosexuals again. And you don't get to talk about fascism when the TQ community acts like goddamn fascists.

"Those conservative Christian nationalists and white supremacists who tell you you're "one of the good ones" would gladly turn around and shoot you in a heartbeat"

We know conservatives hate us, but so does the TQ. Being gay or lesbian in this era leaves us with only two choices - be shot by conservatives, or shot by the TQ.

I want a third option - I hope I one day get to shoot both of you.

"because when they say they're fighting the 'woke gender ideology', they'll mutter in the same breath that you gays are 'degenerates', 'sodomites', and 'animals'. Why would you side with the villains, who see you the same way they see us?"

So I actually know some conservatives personally. They're average Joes and Janes, not the lunatics you find in politics. Unlike you, I talk to anyone, and do not shun or try to ruin the lives of those who don't think exactly like me.

Every day conservatives had begrudgingly accepted us. They realized same-sex marriage didn't do a damn thing to them. The world didn't explode because two dudes could tie the knot. Gays and lesbians spent decades proving to the world we were normal people, and for a brief period, our hard work paid off.

Then the TQ comes along and proves everyone's old homophobic fears right with their disgusting kinks, public displays of their fetishes, and grooming of children into a pseudoscientific ideology that rivals religious fundamentalists. Everyone only sees us as degenerates again because of "trans" people.

"We cannot let oppression continue in any form."

And yet, it's not Conservative Jane telling me, a lesbian, that I should take dick. It's "trans" people and their allies. It's not MAGA Joe demanding that gay and lesbian spaces be "inclusive" of everyone but gays and lesbians. It's "trans" people and their allies.

"We will all be on the winning side of history as we step closer to ending the cycle of hatred and bullying."

When are you going to address your bullying? Rhetorical question. You're such a fucking monster you legitimately believe your treatment of homosexuals, women, and those who just don't think like you is justified because you're "on the right side of history". You don't decide who wins history, you fucking narcissist. Future generations do, and I can tell you write now, you won't even be a goddamn footnote.

"Open your hearts and minds and you'll find that the everyone around you is just as human as you"

Those with pronouns and trans flags in their bios who have been spouting graphic and violent rape and death threats at me for the past ten years have not proven to me that they are human. I would rather open my heart and mind to a ravenous bear.

"and are more similar to you than you'd think."

"Trans" people are nothing like me. I have morals. I have ethics. I abhor violence, abuse, capitalism, misogyny, racism, ableism, and homophobia - everything the TQ stands for.

"Trans people are people, just like you, and we need your help and support just as much as you need ours."

Asking me to support "trans" people is like asking me to support the Trump family or the Taliban. It will NEVER happen.

"Isn't it neat how people who are supportive of all LGBTQ+ identities are also kinder, more loving, more empathetic, and more caring towards their friends and loved ones? Just something to think about."

They're literally not and all evidence points to the contrary. I've never met a trans activist who wasn't a raging bigot. You know nothing but hate, and that's why you think your abuse is love.

By cutting out the TQ+, you also cut out:

-Intersex people

-Two-spirit gays and other culturally connected gays

-Gender nonconforming people

-Those who are questioning their sexuality

-Gays, lesbians, and bi's who are supportive of trans people

-Millions of kind, loving, supportive humans who have gone through indescribable, traumatic abuse and wish to build a safe, welcoming community

Why are you so eager to exclude and belittle people? Why do you tell them they 'don't know what real struggle looks like' when their healthcare, their future, and their lives are under attack? Do you truly value 'love', or do you just want to swat away as many people as possible? Why do you continue to hide under a rock and dig yourself deeper into festering hatred, when you can simply come out and support people who can help you?

Wouldn't it be easier to unite with our trans and nonbinary friends to help defeat the growing threat of genuine fascism in our country? Those conservative Christian nationalists and white supremacists who tell you you're "one of the good ones" would gladly turn around and shoot you in a heartbeat, because when they say they're fighting the 'woke gender ideology', they'll mutter in the same breath that you gays are 'degenerates', 'sodomites', and 'animals'. Why would you side with the villains, who see you the same way they see us?

We cannot let oppression continue in any form. We will all be on the winning side of history as we step closer to ending the cycle of hatred and bullying. Open your hearts and minds and you'll find that the everyone around you is just as human as you, and are more similar to you than you'd think. Trans people are people, just like you, and we need your help and support just as much as you need ours.

Isn't it neat how people who are supportive of all LGBTQ+ identities are also kinder, more loving, more empathetic, and more caring towards their friends and loved ones? Just something to think about.

Love wins. Trans rights are human rights.

[mariaiscrafting]

Cishet dnf stans are without fail just super gross about it. I've cultivated my tumblr sphere to be so queer that I genuinely forgot how terrible cishets are about mlm ships they deem "attractive". Cishets making homophobic "jokes"........bro that's just homophobia.

I feel like that's so much easier on Tumblr anyways since Tumblr is so disproportionately queer. I can actually stand to follow Dream stans (*cough* looking at you Angel *cough*), George pfps, and some DNFers here because they're mostly queer. Probably the main reason I stopped using Twitter was actually because of all the cishet DNF shippers. I think there's just something about being queer that makes you more understanding of comp het, queer fetishization, being treated as Other, being psychoanalyzed like a lab specimen, and being potentially outed. Subsequently, queer shippers are simply less likely to take DNF shipping a step too far...

There are lots of ways in which cishet shippers take it a step too far. One common thing is fetishization. Contrary to popular-anti belief, not every shipper is fetishizing mlm relationships. But a lot of them are. Fetishization is contingent on a foundational belief that one is consuming media about a certain romantic/sexual dynamic because they find it attractive. To fetishize is to treat a ship as Other, as lesser or more or weirder or "special" or whatever. If one wouldn't treat a het relationship the same way as they do the mlm relationship they're theorizing about, gushing about, drawing about, writing about, etc., then one should reexamine the reasons one is even shipping them, because the likely answer is fetishizing reasons. Another way shippers take it too far is their creepy fascination with all the intricacies of DNF. Like, the analysis of every voice inflection, every mention of the other, every moment they're together, every smile and laugh and facial expression. It's so beyond creepy. This isn't how you treat real life humans. This isn't how you treat people you respect. This is how you treat fictional characters, or toys, or specimens you're curious about. It's absurd.

But those are all things I've talked about a hundred times on this blog. I'm glad I have been able to, too, because it seems so impossible to get through to Twitter DNFers compared to Tumblr DNFers, partially because of the character limit and partially because of what mcyttwt stan culture is like (stubborn, hardheaded, overly protective, significantly more obsessive, etc).

Regarding homophobic jokes... I think a lot of cishet shippers think they can't be homophobic if they are shipping an mlm pairing. Because if you're so open to gay people that you ship them, how could you possibly be homophobic? Isn't that the opposite of homophobia? To that, I respond the same way I respond to cishet men who claim they're not lesbophobic because they like lesbian porn and white people who claim they're not racist because they have black friends and men who claim they're not misogynistic because they love their daughters or wives; bigotry is not solely enacted upon with explicit hatred. Bigotry can manifest itself in many ways, and in the 21st Century, most often that is in subtle ways that implicate one's own view of minorities/oppressed groups as distinctly "Other." You can have a fascination, love, or adoration for an oppressed group, and still be bigoted against them. Love /=/ the inability to be racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. A failure to accept criticism and recognize one's own propensity for homophobia will only lead to making the same homophobic remarks/jokes, failing to eradicate one's own subconscious beliefs that led to one's homophobia (e.g., comp het), and stagnation in one's personal growth.

And yes, if you can’t understand how treating DNF like this obsession, this other-than-human idealized fasion, is homophobic, then you are one of these subtlely bigoted people, and I am begging you to pause, step back, and self-reflect, please.

As always, the usual disclaimers apply. First, not all cishet DNF shippers cross a line in their shipping. If you read this and you don't know if this applies to you, it's important for you to pause and reflect on your manner of shipping. Recognizing when we do wrong is the first step in eradicating homophobia and fetishization. Second of all, for those who don't know what prompted this ask, here is a link to the half-joke post of mine from a few hours ago. Third of all, I am never an expert on any of the discourse I engage in. I'm simply providing my opinion. Fourth of all, this is not meant to be hateful. Yes, I come from a place of extreme frustration and exhaustion towards cishet shippers, but I still think there is capability for growth within the mlm shipping community. I am a DNFer, just a queer one; I read DNF fics, I love DNF art, and I watch DNF compilations. I, too, gush whenever Dream and George act fond of each other. I'm not an anti; I just like to criticize the communities I am a part of because I love the spaces they provide for me and want them to grow and improve through self-reflection and critical analysis. Positive change always starts from within.

Anyways, if you're interested in my other random rants about related issues: here is one of my original takes on DNFers crossing lines they shouldn't and dehumanizing DNF for their own enjoyment, here is a more general take of mine about reading into DNF dynamics with empathy, here is my thing with fetishization (thank you Angel for the input), and here is a long-ass post with queer perspectives on DNF shipping (thank you Xen for the input).

As always, reminder to blacklist /neg or #discourse if you don’t want to see posts like this from me. Take care of yourselves <3