#that marcille is the one in the party that most understands how talented falin is (bc theyre both extremely talented mages)

[alphaketoglutaricacid]

man that falin realized just before she died the first time that she was willing for other people to get killed if it meant marcille and laios would live and that gave her the will to teleport them out knowing it could kill other innocent people. And then she revives without the memory of it and no one will tell her what she did and she has to learn all over again that to live is to take so she can finally stop being dragged along w other people and do what shes always wanted to do

[iamthedukeofurl]

So this is just my take, but the key to understanding Kabru Dungeon Meshi is understanding that the Touden's party was one of the top parties in the dungeon.

You eventually learn the mission they were on when they encountered the red dragon, and it involved going as far into the dungeon as anybody had gone before. Their party lineup was two top-level mages, Marcille and Falin (okay, Marcille's practical magic skills are kind of questionable, but we're told that Falin was extremely talented within her areas of specialty) Two excellent fighters: Shuro and Namari, and Chilchuck, who considering that he runs the guild, is likely one of the most experienced half-foot trapsmiths working on the island. Laios is party leader, and while he's not the greatest fighter, he's quite good, and his obsessive knowledge of monsters means that he can guide the others. You see how Laois's knowledge helps the party already, now imagine if they had a support caster, a dwarf whose almost certainly a much better fighter than Senshi, and another tallman who is almost certainly a much better fighter than Laois all working on that knowledge.

So with that in mind, lets revisit Kabru and his obsession. Kabru knows people, and can read them very well. He's also got a wider perspective on the nature and danger of dungeons due to his backstory. Kabru isn't here to get rich delving the dungeon, he's here to Solve A Problem. He's a relatively recent arrival to the island, that or his mismatched skillset means that he and his party are much slower to progress through it than the Touden's party. Either way, he spots the Touden party as The Party To Watch when it comes to conquering the dungeon. Laois, as party leader, is obviously of particular concern. So, Kabru turns all his insight onto Laois and he gets...nothing. Laois cares about money from a pragmatic standpoint, but isn't especially concerned with it. He's easily conned. He's not driven by hatred, greed, or ambition. There's some curiosity there, but it's not the driving curiosity of an obsessive academic, Laois is an enthusiastic hobbyist who has figured out how to make his particular interest into a valuable skillset. Kabru is looking for the protagonist of an epic fantasy tale, and he finds...just a guy. A guy who didn't feel at home anywhere, and found a place and a life where he was welcome and valued. A guy whose skillset and companions puts him first in a race he doesn't even know he's running. And if you're Kabru, that's infuriating and fascinating in equal measure.

[neo--queen--serenity]

Marcille is actually one of the biggest reasons it took so long to pinpoint which Chilchuck was the imposter in today’s episode.

The Senshi and Marcille imposters had their own reasons for being hard to decipher, but that was a joint effort on the party’s part. Chilchuck was the only example where a single member’s bias actually swayed the others so strongly that it made them all doubt themselves.

Ryouko Kui did an excellent job of giving us a rich background on how different races interact, and how they may descriminate against each other. Each of the races in this series struggles with these prejudices. Our main characters are not exempt from this, and we see it clearly in the way the shapeshifter manifested as each party member, showing us how the others percieve them.

Marcille knows Chilchuck well, and cares deeply for him as a friend. But she’s not immune to assumptions and biases that come from her elven background. The Chilchuck imposter we are faced with, when it’s down to two of them left, is Marcille’s memory of Chilchuck, Marcille’s perception of how he behaves.

One of the first manifestations of this bias occurs when shapeshifter Chilchuck can’t get a jar open.

The real Chilchuck knows that this would never happen—at least not in this way. Chilchuck is proud, yes, but he asks for Laios’ help all the time. Laios is actually one of the party members he is the most likely to ask help from, given how long they’ve known each other, and how much mutual trust exists between them.

However, the whole scenario isn’t right. Chilchuck wouldn’t give up so easily on opening something; his whole job is opening and unlocking things. He would never quit an attempt like this within 5 seconds, then run to Laios so that “big strong adult tall-man” can open it for him.

Marcille is the one who asks, “Huh? Why do you say that?” because Marcille is partially right. Chilchuck does rely on Laios, and Marcille knows this to be true. But she fails to realize how he relies on Laios.

Chilchuck respects many of Laios’ talents, but the most important ones are his combat skills, his emotional fortitude, and his quick thinking when delegating tasks. He trusts Laios as someone he is comfortable following (he literally said to him and Shuro in the last episode: “Laios!! Tell us what do!! Give us orders!!” when chimera Falin was quickly overpowering them).

So while Marcille almost understands Chilchuck’s confidence in Laios, she tends to accidentally infantilize him in the process.

She immediately believes that Chilchuck B (the imposter, who is specifically using her own memory as its base for Chilchuck’s personality) is the real one, and says so, because she’s blinded by her perception of him as being childlike and adorable because of the very common racial prejudices that half-foots deal with all the time.

She dotes on the imposter, and is open with her affections, as usual (again, her care for him is clear), but doubles down on that bias, on her own assumptions of Chilchuck’s behavior shown through her own lens.

And ultimately, Laios was able to tell the difference, but only because he watched how the Chilchucks handled other minute tasks. Marcille’s stance on which Chilchuck was real truly did throw the others for a loop, at least until the threat passed. And honestly, that’s part of what makes the shapeshifter so terrifying. Its strategy almost worked.

[onthecrescentofthehill]

compiled some very good tags under the cut for this one ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️

tags from @malewifesband

the fact that kabru initially wants to use laios as a tool to prevent tragedy only strengthens the bond when he finds #over and over he cant push himself to kill laios or allow harm to come to him#as much as he needs to keep everyone safe hes drawn to laios for nore than the reasons he can acknowledge#hes treated himself as a dispoasble tool for saving people for most of his life and certainly since he got to melini #but he cant extend that treatment to others esp laios despite his mixed feelings #kabru is a cynic he fails to see good in most people despite his intent to save them #he has little faith in general that people will do The Right Thing when presented with something they want more than whats right #but hes making a deliberate choice to put faith in laios despite his uncertainty #hes making a choice to believe in somebody elses capacity to choose to sacrifice #downplaying kabrus trauma in his decisions actually downplays how important his decision to be laios' friend is #bc part of what hes choosing in being laios' friend is a path that breaks his traumatic eut #where he cant let people get too close know too much be trusted too much #think how little he reveals to his party about this plan even rin. even them he cannot fully trust #thats the level of closed off he is when he lets the bitter angry truth out with laios and laios does not reject him #and instead affirms he intends to meet him on the surface with marcille (something he cant do if shes still dungeon lord) #so he makes a choice to trust laios with saving the world. and its the right choice#hes so quick to call laios a friend when talking to mithrun after that bc man what a thing to be feeljng what he is then #trauma has robbed him of trust for years and its the most difficult thing in the world to surrender that and be vulnerable #and to be validated that was the right choice and that trauma was wrong about needing to close yourself off to be safe #anyway yeah his cpstd is why he cant be friends despite wanting to and why it matters so much that he chooses to that build that bond anyway#good meta op

tags from @shadowtraveled

i think part of this stems from people not fully understanding how much of a weird bizarre unexpected powerhouse the touden party is… #a lot of people see laios as this kind of sillie guy trying his best but ultimately being very normal skills-wise with the exception of his #monster knowledge. but his monster knowledge and falin’s insane amount of magical energy and marcille’s talent and skill for offensive #casting and chilchuck’s ample experience and toshirou’s swordsmanship and namari’s weapons mastery and knowledge followed by senshi’s #familiarity with the dungeon make them a uniquely powerful party like they are kind of The party to watch #they got further than anyone before getting wiped out iirc? of course they’re on kabru’s radar as potential players in his game of 6d chess #to save humanity and end the threat of dungeons #he spends most of the series thinking of laios in terms of utility for that purpose—his purpose. his single goal. #when he meets laios properly he thinks he was wrong to cast his bets on him but he continues aiding him because—and he says this outright— #laios is the tallman closest to the heart of the dungeon #i think people avoid acknowledging that because it makes kabru sound cold or uncaring but it’s a crucial part of his character #he is Always thinking of how to prevent utaya from ever happening again. that is Always on his mind. everything he does he does for that #i think it’s actually more interesting that in his absolute dedication to his goal and his brain’s traumatized reflexive unwillingness to #let him think about anything too upsetting that he hasn’t managed to compartmentalize yet he is unable to recognize his own loneliness #consciously he has very real utilitarian reasons for tracking laios down and that is okay #but all living things need connection to live. and kabru has built a very amicable wall around himself that does not allow for the emotional #fulfillment he has subconsciously been seeking#and of course laios’ niche special interest is one that would be soothing to his halfway separated trauma of ostracism and the fear of being #a monster himself. like of course a guy with these specific issues that he thought he was over but kind of really wasn’t would want to#understand why on earth someone would see anything but evil in a monster#anyway kabru i love u i love you kabru #meshy #kabru time

tags from @mynnthia (prev tags referring to above)

AGREED WITH PREV TAGS #i covered some of this in the tags of my half-joke/half-serious kabru car accident/Crash metaphor post but like. #some ppl expect/are used to 'monsters killed my whole family/village'-type backstories as a fantasy staple + having #barely any deep psychological impact on characters + their subsequent motivations beyond 'i will kill all monsters as revenge' #but when the trauma is actually played straight (+done in a more complex way) in dunmeshi #(ie. kabru has layered motivations built upon 'i must prevent this tragedy from happening to anyone else' + isnt fixated on 'revenge') #ppl who Dont understand/realize kabru's trauma…then dont understand his subsequent motivations/actions #ive seen multiple ppl say that when i reframed the utaya massacre as kabru losing his whole family in a highly traumatic car accident #that it helped it 'click' for them – Why kabru would have complicated feelings + react in such a way (shock but still going along w it) #(technically not comparable in scale. but i used that analogy so the average layperson could more easily relate + thus understand) #anyway. the utaya massacre is Central to kabru's character. i wish more ppl would understand that #kabru #dungeon meshi #dm meta

it’s funny when ppl talk about the harpy omelet scene and say things like “why did he do all of that? he didn’t need to. JUST doing that for laios???” (seen these nearly verbatim on posts i’ve made.)

i don’t really get how you can hear his backstory & not understand that every decision he makes within the dungeon is fueled by a profound trauma borne out of horrific, structural negligence. of course he would do fucking anything to enact his plan? if he computes “getting in laios’s favor = proxy control of the dungeon” and he has very limited time to do so, he will jump at the chance. he’s already DIED for this.

kabru has maybe the clearest possible motivation that a character can have. he has a Protagonists Motivation, and it guides him forward in a very coherent way in the beginning of the story. things get more complicated in later acts that directly address how that motivation manifests itself/gets contradicted, bc ryoko kui is great at exploring this, but it’s still extremely present.

and as a labru fan i strongly dislike the implication i see from some ppl that his interest in laios is mostly personal or romantic (posts that range from pure joke to actual ship meta.) even when taking the “confession” at face value, where i think he was telling the truth, there’s still a lot more to it than that. i think at first kabru does see laios as a means to an end in a way that’s impersonal, partly because he tends to keep everyone in his life at arms length. but that “end” (preventing history from repeating itself) is something foundational to his psyche, and we should consider that potential sense of safety getting mixed in with his warring fascination/apprehension towards laios. he’s drawn to him for visceral reasons, and his stated motivations are so intertwined with his sense of self that untangling this push-pull is much more interesting than boilerplate Yearning, to me.

it’s just confusing when any meta or basic discussion of kabru diminishes the weight utaya has on his inner world and i’m really surprised every time i see it? like i understand that different types of meta will put other lenses on things intentionally, and in most cases i think it’s an interesting tool to work with. but it’s a massive disservice to his character to put the most foundational experience of his life on the back burner ESPECIALLY when it’s in favor of shipping. dissecting character relationships, romantic or otherwise, is at its best when you have their full personhood in mind!!

[neo--queen--serenity]

This episode really highlighted how close Marcille, Laios, and Chilchuck actually are.

The viewer is used to seeing our main characters behave like coworkers up to this point—even friends—and they express normal, understandable levels of concern and fear when their other party members are in danger. But when the nightmare attacked Marcille, it brought out sides of Laios and Chilchuck that the viewer hadn’t seen before.

Laios immediately notices when something is wrong with Marcille, and he tells the others as soon as he’s sure of the problem. Chilchuck and Senshi then follow Laios’ lead as it becomes clear that he intends to make her get some rest.

We see Chilchuck’s hands lay out the bedroll and Senshi’s hands set up the pillow, working in almost perfect tandem as Laios physically wrangles Marcille into bed.

Senshi is in a similar perspective as the viewer, and mostly sits and watches the ordeal unfold. He doesn’t have a shared history, like these three do, so he helps in little ways, but mostly waits on standby for direction.

From here on out, it’s mostly Laios and Chilchuck who take over in planning how to help her.

It’s uncommon for Chilchuck to openly show such distress and worry for one of his party members. He’s used to Marcille being able to defend herself; he’s used to her being capable and strong. He immediately defers to Laios for instruction, (rightly) assuming he will know what to do.

This actually produces a reaction close to real fear from Chilchuck, who outright SMACKS her in a panic to wake her up before getting any further information.

Laios has to quickly stop him, explaining that he could truly hurt her if he interrupts the attack this way. He tells them how he’s going to wake her, and he doesn’t hesitate. He jumps straight in, explaining what he’s doing for the others so that they (Chilchuck) won’t be afraid.

Chilchuck doesn’t question him once. He just does what he can to hurry along the process. He tucks Laios in with his blanket as soon as he lays onto Marcille—an unnecessary action that betrays how much he cares for both of them.

And Laios succeeds in helping Marcille out of the nightmare’s grasp. While trapped in her mind, he reassures her, protects her, tells her how much she’s valued and appreciated. He isn’t embarrassed or sheepish about it, either; he openly declares these things like it’s the most normal and obvious thing in the world.

He gets her out, he saves her. He did the exact thing he set out to do, even though he’d never done it before, and only had Falin’s secondhand information to work with.

Once he wakes, Chilchuck immediately checks on him to see if he’s alright. Chilchuck is clearly still rattled, displeased with having to wait while both of his close friends were unconscious, fighting a battle neither he nor Senshi could see or help with.

Marcille wakes up shortly after Laios, but Chilchuck is still on edge, worrying that she’ll fall back asleep. Laios, too, has a moment of alarm when he makes sure she won’t close her eyes again.

Once he takes the subdued nightmares out of Marcille’s pillow, only then do Laios and Chilchuck relax.

Laios, for his part, remained calm and collected almost the entire time. He did not show panic or fear when it became clear that Marcille was being attacked, nor when he told the rest of the party what he’d be doing to help her. And once the nightmares had been collected from her bedroll, he gently explained what happened, to everyone else’s horror.

Seeing this, it’s not a huge surprise that the Touden party is so successful. We’ve seen Laios handle danger with a level head; we know he’s capable.

But it’s an entirely different kind of talent to face a threat that’s targeting one of your closest friends—which can make even the most competent fighter sloppy out of fear of losing them—one that requires a high-risk, specific rescue style that none of you have ever tried before. And then pull it off flawlessly. Like damn, these guys are lucky to have him.

[uncleasriel]

That's the thing about Kabru. He's incredibly street-smart, and understands politics at a personal and geopolitical level. He literally can't fathom an adventurer Being Nice for their own sake, because the kind of people who get into a dangerous profession like adventuring are those who are shaped by desperation and privation. Folks who give away their treasure aren't forward-thinking or planning to get out of the adventurer game, when most smart people would do exactly that.

Especially when it turns out that both of them are incredibly talented adventurers. Laios has a knowledge of monster ecosystems that would be a huge advantage to anyone who encountered them, and Falin is an incredibly powerful Spirit Mage. Given the standard politics of adventuring parties, anyone with their talent would hang onto the wealth. That the Touden's dont - and then that the folks who they aid drop out of adventuring to set up shady but lucrative ventures looks mighty suspicious if you're attuned to how underworld politics and rises to power work.

Of course, the Touden siblings are just trusting, and take people at face value. Cooked types don't completely exploit them because they're good at what they do. But looking at the sorts of folks who are in their party (Nemari's a down-on-her-luck daughter of a disappeared weapons merchant, Chilchuck's got the reputation of someone running skim-off-the-top schemes, Marcille's a prodigy froma distrusted ethnic group looking into dodgy magics, Shuro's a foreigner with no clear reputation, etc) and then factor in those are the ones we know personally as the audience (and not the ones who go on to found dubious enterprises) you start to see how dodgy they look.

It's almost as if autistic people don't behave like Economic Rational Actors and are instead principled sorts that are at odds with geopolitical decision-making, and literally don't notice what's blisteringly obvious to someone in the know.

All I can say is "wait until Kabru's backstory comes together". The dude is made for political leadership.

Kabru honey how the FUCK where they supposed to know the money they donated was gonna go to an illegal goods ring be so fucking for real 😭