#technically it's really an anti feysand

[dedolubka]

I'll be burned at the stake, probably, but I can't help but make a joke about it

[acourtofthought]

How is the trove connected to elain? I read that the cauldron, truth-teller and the trove prove elain is the important part? What? The trove obeys nesta and not elain ? Why has everything to do with elain😂 she isn’t that important in acotar.

Besides i don’t even think elucien will defeat koschei, they maybe help but sjm will never let anyone be more important than rhys, not even in their own books. We have seen it with acosf, even their the plot was about feysand and their baby.

Will Contain HOFAS Spoilers below the Keep Reading

The Trove can be connected to Elain if SJM wants to connect her to the Trove.

"Like calls to like," Rhys said. "Others could not free themselves because the Mask did not recognize their power. The Mask rode them, not the other way around. Only one Made from the same dark source can wear the Mask and not be ruled by it."

"So Queen Briallyn could use it," Azriel said.

The reason Nesta can wield the Trove is because she was Made. As Elain is Made too, she could technically also wield the Trove.

Though since it's now keyed to Nesta's blood it seems Nesta has to be the one to allow others to use it (as we see in HOFAS).

But I'm not sure I really see any reason why SJM would repeat the Trove storyline in an Elain book. At some point, using the items again and again and again makes it feel overused.

Though I disagree that Elain isn't important, I just think where she shines is different therefore measuring her worth against a warrior and how she compares to that is going to leave her falling short every time as that doesn't seem to be her path.

I think one of the main focuses of Elain's book will be her searching for the box Koschei prizes above all else. If they find that box and it contains his soul, then destroying the box may either weaken or destroy Koschei and then it's possible Elain and Lucien could defeat Koschei on their own (with Vassa, Jurian, Eris, maybe even Helion). The Bone Carver and Weaver's deaths were anti-climatic and Koschei is their sibling. He is a death god as Lanthy's was a death god and Lanthy's death was anticlimatic. Yes, Rhys is powerful but he didn't do much in the action of SF.

It just depends on how much of an obstacle SJM plans on making him. Is he on the same level as Lanthy's? As the Weaver? Is he a minor thing to overcome? Or is he going to turn into the catalyst for another major battle like we saw with the King of Hybern or the Valg in TOG? Usually a single bad guy isn't difficult to for two people to defeat (unless their characters lose their powers as was the case with Amarantha) but when they have the backing of an army that's when everyone gets involved.

Our predictions can only go so far when we don't know if SJM plans on tying Koschei into the time travel stuff or if he's now not that big of a deal and she plans on introducing a bigger threat in the next book which will carry over into however many books she now has planned for the series.

[emeraldvagabond]

No for real because it,s fine to enjoy dark things! I like Jurdan, and goodness knows that's a toxic ship! But because fiction does affect reality, you have to be wary about who you recommend what too to ensure they're not hurt or triggered or offended by something. ACOMAF was and sometimes still is marketed towards teens about a woman leaving an abusive relationship for a good one. If it was for adults it,d be ok. Critical thinkers can extrapolate that Rhys is trash. But teens? 1)

I’ve seen too many teen girls think a possessive boyfriend is attractive. It’s not. And the media we give them needs to stop telling them it is.

Absolutely. And if she wanted to keep the YA status, because I understand YA is for older teens technically, and, like it says, young adults, then it's her responsibility to say: "Hey, this isn't a healthy relationship. This is not romance in a real-life sense of romance. This is dark. Off the pages, this is abuse. Feyre's POV is unreliable because she is in love with this male, and she is his victim."

But instead, we get countless interviews and posts about how amazing and perfect Rhys is. How he's the best, how he's selfless and adoring, the ideal man, and how their relationship is everything anyone should ever want in a relationship...and the characters who worry about Feyre, or about their dynamics, get written off as paranoid or crazy. Which, again could be fine and could add to the nuance of the book and the unreliability of Feyre's POV if it was acknowledged outside the book that it was abuse.

But it's not. And because Feyre holds him up on such a high pedestal, these younger readers don't see through the glitz or the glam or the "it's your choice" to the darker, fucked up parts of their dynamic because they're told not to look that deep.

And really, that plays a very big role in why I consider myself anti-feysand. Really, I like the ship, especially as Feyre becomes more tyrannical throughout the series(and she does. She's never given the power to rule but slowly her thoughts shift to conform to the ideas of the Night Court and the Inner Circle.) I like what the dynamic could be, the story that could be told....but to say she's leaving an abusive relationship for a healthy one is just a lie. And a dangerous ideal for young viewers who haven't had experiences or the time to understand that it's not.

[kittyinhighheels]

As someone from this exact anti community, can I provide a bit of context for this post, please?

The relationships they're mentioning in the tags, at least rowaelin and feysand, have immortals with an explained age system. There, fae - the immortals - are basically seen as adults around 100, if not later. The humans/women in the relationship though are 19, so for fae standards actual babies.

And I actually agree with them? Yes the 18 year old is technically an adult but next to an immortal being, they're like a five years old. There's a huge power imbalance and maturity gap that, considering many actually have the human being 17, makes the relationship really concerning. Not saying no one should ever write it, just saying that not every anti point is inherently bad and illogical if you take a minute to think about it.

Just Anti Things: I knew that they’d come for the immortals someday. also if you’re under 22 you’re a child apparently

[acourtofthought]

Hello!

About the Azriel you were talking about him, I have to say that part in the extra that he says: that he showed Rhysand that side of him said a lot. It is normally closed and has multiple peaks. Girls find men that sexy, but in SJM's books it was always a warning.

I wanted to know why people find the way he refers to Elain as an object of possession beautiful, I wanted to see if it was Lucien giving the necklace to someone else...

Another detail, from acomaf we know that Azriel needs to exercise when he is frustrated. By the time he gets to that ring, he's broken, and he's fine and slept as well as he could.

I love the language of Gwynriel: provocative, competitive, and understanding at a glance.

I loved when Gwyn said he saw Azriel's aggressive side that slaughtered everyone, WITHOUT HESITATION. She was there at her worst moment, but proud that her attackers suffered. I'm looking forward to the broken parts of the two coming together.

What do you say about Gwyn saying she did bad things too. Do you think there's something beyond the fights she had with Catrin?

The reason Feysand worked is because Rhys showed Feyre the worst of him from the start. The reason Nessian worked is because Nesta never put on airs around Cassian, she let him see the most bitter and angry parts of who she was from their first interaction. Rowealin were endgame because they were complete assholes to one another in the beginning. If you can weather the worst of someone than you can definitely handle the best of them. We don't get that with E/riel though and that's not a good thing for an SJM book because as we see above, that's not how she writes her endgame couples. Azriel refuses to let Elain see the darkest parts of him and that right there spells their demise. I know Gwyn hasn't seen everything bad about Az just yet (i.e., his obsessive tendencies with females, his defying orders) but, she has seen the ever present rage that is a part of him. She did not seem bothered at all by his savagery. Anti's like to use the excuse that "of course she was fine with it since he killed the people that were harming her!" but honestly, that doesn't seem to make a difference to Elain. The people of the Hewn City are examples of horrible beings yet the cruelty that exists there still bothers her. Why would she care about what they do to one another since canonically, they're bad? Why would it matter to her since they deserve it? Elain seemed shocked by Nesta's beheading of the King but didn't he deserve it? Did Elain herself seem to enjoy taking credit for her part in his demise? After everything he had done to her and her sisters? It does not matter to Elain who is bad or good, who deserves cruelty or not, it still bothers her. So no, when Anti's try to argue against Gwyn's response to Az slaughtering everyone, their argument doesn't hold up. I think when Gwyn had the conversation that she didn't want to make any more mistakes she was referring to what happened at the temple which she carries a lot of guilt for. And when she was referring to the faults she had with Catrin, it was probably referencing the normal sister squabbles that sisters tend to have (just as we've witnessed with the Archerons). Do I think it's possible she could do something bad in the future? Only in the way that Feyre does bad things (like the destruction of Spring for the good of her Court and revenge on Tamlin and stealing from Tarquin). In the way Cassian razed an entirely village for revenge. In fantasy books, no one really looks at those things as "bad" because if there's a "evil guy or girl", readers tend to feel they deserve whatever is coming for them. But if we want to get technical, I guess revenge at whatever cost can be considered somewhat of an issue. Feyre and Rhys were willing to make an enemy out of a good person so long as it served their purpose in the end (it bothered them to do so but they were still did it anyway). She's meant to be Azriel's equal and that means the good and the bad have to somewhat align. Which to me means she could develop a bit of a bloodthirsty, vengeful side just like he has, just like Nesta has, just like Rhys has and so on.