#tbh when people are extremely negative towards other fans

[devourcr]

admittedly, there are times this fandoms feels uninviting from both sides. as someone who is a fan of the show and of the books (even the 90s movie), it does feel shitty at times.

[starryjkoo]

If Jungkook went on live and asked toxic fans to stop harassing Jimin I already know exactly the kinds of comments we would be seeing in response -

“the company is forcing JK to say that to protect the company fave” *10k JM company fave posts* *random slurs, animal names, and bongo tweets* “look at how the company is shielding Jimin solos again” “notice how none of the other members are telling their solos to leave JK alone, JK is the only member who cares, the rest of the members don’t care about him, #JKleaveBTS #BTSdisband” “JK is only saying that because he has a kind heart, but I don’t have to be kind like JK, I’m going to protect him by going after the leeches who are trying to take advantage of him”

And then you would see a thousand posts from his solos/diets complaining about why JM hasn’t called out his own toxic fans, saying that he’s a terrible person who approves of PJMs harassing JK (and tkkrs and other solos would join in and pile on adding how JM doesn't care about the hate that TH/YG/other members receive from PJMs either). And definitely some PJMs would play into it and gloat about JK hating his fans but JM loving PJMs or something. It would be a whole mess, and for what?

JK asking fans to stop going to his house and to stop sending things didn’t work, JK saying artists are innocent didn’t even stop some ARMYs from talking about nwjn's a certain way (I don’t mean simply disagreeing with him, I mean some ARMYs outright dismissing his words and being condescending towards him about it, some were even resentful and leaving rude messages on his IG).

Pretty sure that solos/tkkrs would find a way to twist it to be even more hateful and unhinged towards JM. I mean tkkrs quite literally came up with a whole conspiracy theory so they could twist and dismiss anything they don’t like in BTS content (company forced fanservice ship, tkk hidden couple) and they include weverse lives in this now. How do you even combat that?

The people who want to believe a certain narrative will just twist whatever they want, dismiss whatever words and actions they don’t like to suit whatever narrative they want to push. Anyone who thinks that JK doesn’t like JM (and vice versa) is already extremely biased and irrational, you can’t really reason with that. JK has already done and said x100000000 things that contradict those narratives and they still just ignore it, and his haters never give him credit for it and expect him to do more. Not to mention people like that do not respect or care about JK in the first place, they just want something from him - to live vicariously through him, possess or own him, use him for whatever fantasy.

I mean sometimes I do want (all of) them to address toxic fans and I wonder why they haven’t, but I can also sort of see how it wouldn’t really change much and tbh I just assume that the seven of them have probably talked about this and have some mutual understanding on how they decide to handle it. And like I said JK asking his fans to leave Jimin alone would just result in another unhinged response from those groups of people and JM would be expected to also immediately make a statement or be painted as a terrible person who doesn’t care about JK getting harassed either.

This discourse is really tired and it’s sad the kind of expectations people place on JK about all of this, not even just to call out antis but never being allowed to tease or joke around, being blamed when antis twist his words, having the burden to prove that he doesn't hate his bandmates for some reason placed on his shoulders (even though he HAS proved that, they just don't listen to him). I expect it from solos, but every now and then I have seen some jikooker's also be weird to him about it and it's just really frustrating. Most people I see have just been celebrating and enjoying his live though!! Sorry for the negativity but I wanted to say something too because I can literally picture EXACTLY the kind of things they would be saying and no doubt it would just be another fandom headache.

[foreignswaggersession]

there are definitely iwtv fans who love acting like they care about racism when it comes to fictional characters, but have no issue with being condescending towards actual black and south asian people in this fandom.

Btw making "brown man has mid dick" jokes to prop up lestat is also clownery and it's even more stupid how some people would choose to double down on it after hearing about why it's degrading and uncomfortable. like i couldn't believe the bullshit i was reading from some of these so called "fandom anti racists", but they're clearly not mature enough for this discussion.

sorry for taking so long to respond anon - i wanted to make the posts with screenshots first so i could show my work and not be accused of merely reaching to support my ship. i think most the condescension from these fans comes from their selective memory of the show as filtered through their long-held headcanons, and i wanted to respond by citing the show itself. the fans started claiming louis was never attracted to armand as plainly evident, when the show clearly says the exact opposite, repeatedly. i watched the "armand has mid dick" joke/theory develop in real time and snowball within the pro-louis section of the fandom. it got twisted up in the 'louis hates topping' + 'lestat's dick is uniquely amazing' + 'armand can't satisfy louis' takes, all of which i disagree with. i understand your discomfort anon, it's part of why i started posting in the fandom - 'louis only wants pink dick' also became a thing this season and it broke me (louis didn't get it up for jonah while eating rats for y'all to act like pink dick does anything for him but sure, believe what you want).

to give some credit, i think some of these fans you're talking about started making these 'jokes' in reaction to the overwhelming (and undeserved) sympathy towards armand that dominated the fandom at the time (probably still does tbh). it's fair to point out that armand is not just any brown man but is in fact an extremely manipulative abuser who threatened to kill louis, set him and his family up to get killed, killed his daughter/sister, lied to him about it for years, sadistically let him suffer after a suicide attempt he instigated, erased that memory and covered THAT up for years, and to also suggest that those acts negatively affected louis's attraction to him. and yeah, i too am tired of reading takes about how loving armand was (girl when?) and how louis wasn't nice enough to him 🙄. that said, armand is attractive as fuck in universe and in our reality, so it's weird to pretend louis would not be attracted to him, despite his off-putting nature (see season 1).

most importantly, louis's desire for armand is a key plot point essential to the breakdown of his and claudia's relationship. claudia didn't say "picked another one over me" and "you were lestat's, now you're armand's" out of ignorance - she understands louis better than anyone. it's wishful thinking to suggest that louis suffered in silence for claudia through eps 11 and 13 and only stayed with armand for 70+ years to protect claudia/punish lestat and no other reason. it would have been really great if louis kept his commitment to claudia, probably would have saved several lives...alas, tragedy.

like i keep saying, just say you don't see the chemistry in / can't support loumand, or prefer the chemistry / want to support loustat. but claiming that louis never fell in love with armand prior to claudia's murder - that just is not supported by the show's text.

just fyi, i think saintarmand has a great answer to a similar ask, so i will also refer you to her response here.

[bioethicists]

Your post about how the clinical process surrounding mental illness and addiction was really interesting!

I wonder what your thoughts are about Housing First models and Common Grounds models? Because I feel like they speak directly to your points and provide the needs but also a structure that can be relied on if one wishes to change oneself.

my job as a research assistant is actually doing an evaluation of the benefits of a massive housing first project in boston! i am a fan of housing first particularly because i think everyone should be housed + the possibilities for life shrink dramatically the second somebody is unhoused, regardless of their substance use status. unhoused ppl are treated as less than human (sometimes less than animal tbh) in many spaces. i also have a personal investment because my brother overdosed in part because of the fact that he had been kicked out of his living situation for using + was forced to use with a depressed tolerance in a remote location. if he had been in a housing situation which was not contingent on sobriety, where others may have been present to narcan him or he would not have had the immense stress + trigger of dogshit menial labor jobs needed to pay the ridiculous, price gouging rents at sober living- i mean, i can't speculate, but it's something i do think about.

i think my hesitation with how it can be implemented is, again, the assumption that the end goal for everyone is recovery. my position is not "well some people can't recover" or "well some people can't recover until xyz is met" but "nobody is obligated to recover, ever, and recovery is a subjective concept which can be put to extremely reactionary uses. i want to reduce people's suffering and increase their possibilities for life."

i do think, based on my work, that it's really important for people who are using substances to have access to resources which facilitate their safety and happiness + a lot of them would probably choose either sobriety, MAT, or safer drug use habits if that was something which was easy for them to do. they often express genuinely felt desires to "get better" (in whatever way that means to them or whatever way they hope it means to me) but similar, competing desires to continue experiencing the benefits of their drug use, as well as avoiding the negatives of sobriety. while i chafe at the idea that all people's "true selves" want to recover (in the specific way that recovery is constructed by substance use treatment providers), i do think that most people want to suffer less. things like methadone/suboxone (or safe, legal, surveillance free supply!!!), medications provided on site, easily accessible, non judgemental medical treatment, etc can save lives.

it's important for ppl to be very skeptical of who is allocating/managing the resources for these interventions + their motivations. to be frank, i get scared about the future of the (admittedly imperfect) housing projects i work with because they are funded by the state of MA with the primary goal being to get ppl off the street, because housed members of the community were complaining about the encampments. the state very clearly wants to see that these projects 1) reduce the prevalence of visible homelessness and 2) reduce the rate of drug use among participants. my job is very explicitly to collect and produce data that indicates this + the questions i ask when i collect data are quite explicitly centered around figuring out if being housed makes ppl use less drugs. the point here is that the state absolutely can + will revoke the massive amounts of money it has allocated towards these programs if they don't see them as making people Stop Doing Drugs or Stop Wandering the Streets. this is why i think harm reduction responses should be grassroots responses originating within + for communities, as described in some of the chapters of Saving Our Own Lives. unfortunately, these communities rarely have the infrastructure or the resources to implement these projects, so they must rely on the state + all of its messy biopolitical motives

[toons-and-doom]

SHRIMPO HCS PLEASSSEEEE IM DYING BECAUSE LACK OF SHRIMPS GRAHAJAAJAJNBDJFNDSKJFS

FOR YOU, SHRIMPO FANS!

This is gonna be long since there’s two requests here-

- Idk what cannon says I think he could be a cool character

- Shrimpo is a pacer (just like me fr)

- he hates everyone and everything just about equally.

- AroAce (just me fr fr).

- tbh I don’t think he genuinely hates everything, he’s just got a extremely short fuse and easily find others horrible.

- bud knows he’s pathetic and the weakest link of any group and copes with it by snapping at everyone rather than face it

- tbh I think he could fare well in a fight it’s just that these twisted just can’t be fought.

- decently strong in the strength department, but he’s to full of himself to use it in any meaningful way

- he’s not comfortable feeling negative emotions like guilt or sadness. He’d rather take them out on others than sit on them.

- Boxten is a frequent target of his because Boxten is (a lot like how Shrimpo used to be) such a loser compared Shrimpo!

- hates colors. Has no favorite color.

- he doesn’t have any friends really. Kids don’t really like him either. He’s kinda lonely (don’t feel bad for him he did this to himself by being a asshole)

- if he had a handler they would have to have the patience of a saint.

- if he actually liked something he’d never outright say it. He’d just sit there in silence and not complain about it.

- on that notes he enjoys head scritches.

- he’d rather die than admit it.

- has a real bad case of resting bitch face

- he’s a bit ticklish. But don’t try it. He’ll clock you.

- somehow both hates himself and thinks he’s the greatest person in the room.

- when he gets twisted, he was twisted while coughing up so much ichor, which why is mouth is obscured. It stained his face.

- I think he regretted his actions as he got twisted because he got twisted alone, hidden in a storage closet, and in a lot of pain. Rage is his primary emotion, but there is also some sadness in there

- prefers sleeping with weighted blankets.

-tbh I think he’s apathetic towards gender as a whole but doesn’t care people referring to him as he.

- Orphan lmao. Had shitty ass older siblings. Skill issue.

That’s it for now unfortunately

Tbh I could stick to a single project I’d make a fic where everyone on the elevator dies on a fucked up cursed first floor and the sole survivor is Shrimpo and he’s forced to go through ✨character development✨ and basically solo

[beanghostprincess]

What do you think about ZoSan. I love them but I don´t ship them. (hidding from the many ZoSan fans)

okay so my opinion here might be a bit controversial but i'm so cray cray i'm so brave i'm such a warrior in this fandom i'm just gonna say it:

i don't really like the zosan...

(btw i don't wanna spread hate but i'm too lazy to censor the ship name and tbh idk if it also shows up in the fyp if it's said in the ask??? i talk a bit negatively about it, so don't read it if you ship them in case it might bother you <3)

i love their dynamic and i've been saying they need to fuck since, like, the moment they started fighting on screen. the sexual tension is immaculate, please, just fuck already god- half of their problems would be solved asap if zoro pinned sanji against a wall already and fucked him so hard he spoke french.

i like the fact that although they're always arguing, they understand and trust each other when it comes to serious stuff. like yeah, we fight but we are not letting this affect the crew as a whole. they're just two very proud bastards who hate admitting they don't actually dislike each other that much. their whole dynamic is great in canon!!!! love to see them. i enjoy them a lot. they need to fuck already (saying this tho does not mean i ship them to an extreme extent. i just know gays when i see them).

however!!! i think my dislike towards the ship comes mainly from the fandom. because personally i enjoy them in canon and i like the content some people make of them (god knows i reblog zosan more than it looks like), but... the 90% of the content and shippers just make them so out of character they stress me tf out. i see a zosan shipper and i never know if they're the good kind or not and i start shaking with fear. and i'm a person that believes in "ship whatever tf you want bc everyone has different tastes and i'm not that crazy to fight over fictional characters and what other people like", but, y'know, bad experiences from my past idk.

they're not even in my top 10 op ships, but they exist. they're there. they're fun. they're cool, i guess. i feel very indifferent about them and if i see a cute/hot zosan thing i'll reblog it. but i don't seek content of them, y'know (unless i'm in a very sanji nsfw mood and the horniness takes over my original preferences. sometimes i just want sanji to be topped, i apologize).

but yeah, i'm very "meh" about them and the thing that makes me not really like them is the fandom, mostly. because there are some zosan shippers out there that just....................... they remind me of kiribaku shippers saying their ship is queerbait when it's very obviously NOT queerbait and claiming them to be canon when they're obviously not canon and etcetcetc. that, and the fact that a lot of people write/draw them extremely out of character. personally, for me soft zosan (i love soft zosan bc i'm a softie) could only work after a long-ass development and they'd still act like the idiots they are. that being said, nsfw zosan works every time in every universe bc, again, the sexual tension is tangible, man. and somehow people manage to do it out of character????? lmao.

people are SO obsessed with this ship bc it's easy to sexualize and easy to write because "haha boys fucking haha fighting haha" which is uhhhhhh not my thing, really. like i do love nsfw zosan but it also has to be written extremely in character and- idk i think that it's just on me.

basically, i'm indifferent about them and when i see people so so so hyped i just don't really get it. and then there's people that actively believe that they're queerbaiting and that instantly makes me angry, which translates into not liking the ship for a while. and when i go back to being indifferent and liking some stuff of them, i just don't really care much? and then i see someone writing them ooc and i dislike them again and- that over and over and over again.

and okay this whole thing seems stupid but i've had past experiences in fandoms and tbh saying that you don't like THE popular ship is like yelling at the shippers to attack you.

but, yeah, to summarize: i'm indifferent about them. i like them in very specific situations and content. most of the shippers and ooc content make me mad (which is like, most of them). but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the thing is: when zosan is done well, zosan is great. but when it's done out of character??? i can't fucking stand it.

i'm kind of contradicting what i said about not liking them because i do like them?? i just don't like them THAT much or to that extent and it has to be a very specific flavor?? and the shippers and content make me so mad sometimes i just stop reading fics or looking for content idk. i guess what i'm trying to say is that:

-> canon zosan cool

-> fanon zosan makes me dislike them

-> i don't really care and since this fandom is literally FULL of that ship i just have to live with it idk they're fine ig

[littlespoonevan]

this is definitely not a dig at you Ciara, it's just something I have to let it out because it's driving me up to walls..what is this fandom's, I am gonna say unnecessary, coolness towards the show? I truly don't get it why they won't let people to be angry about anything happening on the show? If someone says something, people are jumping on each other's throats by posting some condescending shit. like? the couch theory shouldn't end like that. It doesn't make sense when you consider the progress buck had in this season but apparently we are not allowed to have opinions because then some popular blog will post something degrading our opinions by using 'jokes' and their mutuals gonna join and make us feel like shit. I get that they are calm and collected but who gives them to right to mock other people's opinions? I am sorry I'm doing this in here like this. It's been bothering me for awhile now and I just wanted to let it out. I'm sorry and thank you

mm i get where you're coming from! i think the fandom in general can tend to veer quite strongly in opposite directions when it comes to stuff that happens on the show. some people will immediately catastrophise and act like the show has royally fucked us all over bc of one scene when the season (or in this case, the show itself) isn't over. and then on the other hand - and maybe in response to that - other people can tend to jump through hoops to explain away and rationalise every single decision the show makes.

to be honest, i'm not a fan of either option. i think it's actually really important to be able to just say 'i personally don't like this storyline' and not need a deeper meaning for it???? like for me, as far as the couch theory is concerned, i'm not happy with where it ended up in 6x18. even removing buddie from the equation and just speaking as someone who's very dedicated to buck's seasons-long romantic arc and quest for genuine love, i'm not happy. it's not satisfying to me. it's nothing to do with natalia. i don't know enough about natalia to have an opinion and like. that's the problem??? it's a disservice to the work that's been put into arc not just in s6 but also everything since s2. and sure maybe it's bc they thought the show might end so they wanted to wrap it up. and sure they'll probably walk it back in s7. doesn't matter. i don't like it.

and that's fine!!!!! i'll write my own version if it bothers me that much (though tbh real life is so busy right now i can't spare much headspace for all of this lmao) i've watched a million shows that have made decisions i don't agree with. the fact that that's quite a rare occurrence with 911 is actually an anomaly in and of itself aksdjfh.

i'm not in the business of putting down other blogs and i would imagine a lot of the people you're referring to get far more asks than they ever actually answer that are extremely negative (and potentially see more negativity on their dashboard too if they follow a broad range of people??). and so as a result, maybe they make posts that feel dismissive bc they're fed up of that reaction??? having said that, you're absolutely entitled to feel what you feel and shouldn't feel guilty for expressing that on your own blog.

overall though i think we'd all fair a lot better if we just tag our shit so people can blacklist as necessary and let ourselves not like things sometimes?????????? none of us need an explanation, just saying 'this isn't where i thought this storyline would end up and i'm disappointed' is more than enough. and from my own experience, allowing myself to have thoughts like that and sitting with them for a sec before reading/writing some fic is usually all i need to feel better in the end!

[rottenbrainstuff]

Ooooh! This absolutely breaks my heart. This was too much for the tags so I’m just adding comments: sorry to clog up this post, lots of nerd thoughts below the cut:

I picked The Force Awakens, and it breaks my heart a lot to see so few people pick it. The fact that it’s even behind Revenge of the Sith, even Rogue One, the fact that it’s ON PAR WITH PHANTOM MENACE? My gosh. My heart.

I honestly think the backlash against TFA has less to do with the quality of the movie itself, and more to do with everyone’s negative reaction to the extremely poor conclusion to the trilogy, and it really poisoned everyone’s impression of the previous two movies which like…. Honestly, before TRoS came out, was very positive? At least from my corner of the fandom I was perched on?

Well let’s start from the beginning here. Picking one single Star Wars movie to save. That is so, so hard to decide. Personally, to me, my first thought is always Return of the Jedi, but I know that’s because of my own personal circumstances. You see when I was a kid, that was the only Star Wars movie I had a copy of, taped from tv by my parents. I never even saw the other two movies until I was an adult. To me, for 18 years, RotJ WAS Star Wars. I like the story. I like Luke all quiet and conflicted, I like Leia charging in to save her man and strangling Jabba the Hutt with his own chains, I like the Emperor and the dramatic conclusion and Luke redeeming his father and everything. Because I never saw A New Hope for so long, it never bothered me that the central goal of blowing up the Death Star 2.0 is too similar. I liked the ewoks because I was probably just at the right age for them.

I think it’s a great movie but it’s impossible for me to say how the fact that it was the only movie I saw for so long has biased me in its favour.

So I mean what about A New Hope then? That’s the one that started it all. It has a classic story structure, so classic we studied it in my film class in college. It’s our big intro to most of the characters we love, the one that started it all, and really the only one in the entire series that can exist by itself, with the plot perfectly able to stand alone without sequels or prequels, something none of the other trilogy movies have done since.

Myeh I dunno though. I recognize its importance as the one that started it all, but…. The Luke here is not the Luke I came to like, the lightsaber fight is… like… it’s laughable guys, I’m not going to pretend that it’s not, the budget is small, like, I mean, no disrespect, like I said this is the movie that started it all, and I think George Lucas had really creative filming ideas to get around the limitations of the time, I do, but I don’t get EXCITED about A New Hope.

(And empire strikes back: like myeh, this is an unpopular opinion but I honestly don’t really get the hype this movie gets. To me it feels like it is missing a beginning and an end, because it is, it’s the filling in a sandwich and it doesn’t work without its bread. And I like the events that happen in the other movies better. In fact I have a hard time remembering the exact plot of it sometimes. Yoda and cloud city, basically I guess. Myeh. I find it forgettable, tbh)

So no one likes The Force Awakens in 2024, cause everyone is so rightly upset at how Disney bungled the sequel trilogy as a whole. Ok fair. But go back in time. I grew up a Star Wars fan. And while I was in highschool, they announced they were making another trilogy! Holy shit! It had been something like ten years where we had nothing! Absolutely nothing! Everyone was so excited!

Look I know attitudes towards the prequel trilogy have softened a lot recently, but guys, if you weren’t there, it’s hard to express what a complete and total disappointment Phantom Menace was when it was released. No one liked it. It was too stupid for adults to enjoy, too boring for little kids to really enjoy, it was ugly, it was lazy, it had Jar Jar, like, I mean. Looking back now and viewing it as just one entry in a big sea of Star Wars things that are of extremely varying quality, sure, whatever. But when it first came out we were MAD. Each movie in the trilogy got a little better as they went, and honestly RotS is watchable, but guys, the prequels were initially regarded as a big fucking joke. They made documentaries about it. The only people who were Star Wars fans after that were kids who were watching the clone wars cartoons.

So then they announce that once again, they’re making more Star Wars movies. I was absolutely, 110% uninterested in seeing what bullshit they were going to churn out. Can’t express to you how uninterested I was. I vividly remember the first production photos I saw with Rey in her Jakku outfit wearing her sand shroud thingie and her goggles. No interest at all. It’s going to be another boring attempt to get everyone’s attention using a setting we are familiar with, but it’s going to have the completely wrong tone and look and not feel like Star Wars at all, and probably it’s also going to be aimed at kids, because at that time, like I said, kids watching clone wars were probably the biggest current fans.

But it was getting good reviews. And they cast Adam Driver, who looked so…. Weird to me. Like, he was not the bad guy I was expecting to see. I was curious, so I went to go see it in January.

And like

It felt like Star Wars.

In fact it was everything I ever wanted from a Star Wars movie. I had so much goddamned fun watching it in the theater.

The opening shots absolutely fucking hooked me. I knew immediately this movie was being made by people who knew what they were doing. The instantly likeable characters. Finn the compassionate stormtrooper, Poe the handsome hotshot pilot, Rey the little desert goblin, BB8, the cutest little droid, who I actually prefer to R2D2. And Kylo Ren, such an unusual and interesting bad guy.

Sure, the plot structure is very similar to A New Hope. But guys, you do realize, I mean first of all that’s not necessarily a bad thing, IMO, but second of all, they did that on purpose? The fanbase at the time had been so badly burned by the prequels, we needed assurance this new trilogy was going to be Star Wars again, and it was. Besides that though, the story was tight. The movie was perfectly paced, proper rise and fall of tension, funny jokes. Man even though I’ve seen this movie a million times, I still feel excited watching Finn and Poe escape in the tie fighter, I still laugh my head off when Finn meets Rey for the first time and she tries to kick his ass, I still love watching the fight in the forest and little Rey Nobody facing off against the spooky guy with the Jedi pedigree. I love the music, I love the lighting, I love the colours, I love the use of practical effects (like, don’t you guys remember how much we squealed over Rey’s instant bread?), I love Han and Leia back again, I love that they had a complicated past and not a boring perfect happily ever after. I love how excited it made me to see MORE. The only thing, the single thing, I didn’t like about the movie was how it showed Luke at the end. That was a mistake, and everything else was literally perfect. I loved these new characters and I wanted to see what happened next. I loved how the fandom all came together (minus the bizarre anti reylo bullshit). Like guys.

Come on.

I know the trilogy didn’t end up panning out and I know that’s a goddamned shame. I’m mad too. But like. Don’t throw TFA under the bus. Don’t you guys remember how much you used to like it?

Anyways. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinions and that’s ok. I just had to do something with my poor broken heart when I saw these results, so here it is. Don’t worry, TFA: I will always love you best.

Very important poll based on a debate I just had:

And the most important question:

WHY THAT ONE? -> tags

(Every reblog is another hour George Lucus must spend in hell wearing the sexy slave Leia outfit)

[nyasialiveshere]

Exo Kai: Due West

heavily opinionated semi long post

Inspired by a genius post I saw on twt iykyk, I didn't wanna bother them they seemed stressed.

topic: Is Kai promoting in English and doing Western promotion activities pandering for Western validation?

(because he clearly never pandered to anyone before ever in the history of ever...it never happened... seriously. I don't believe he knows what pandering is actually.)

Simple Fact: TECHNICALLY..yes

Question: Is that a bad thing?

Opinion: It depends

Clarification : By western do you mean American? And by pandering do you actually mean worshipping Eurocentricity and it's machine of capitalism? That is a slippery topic, technically most kpop idols, such as Kai, are already modeling for European brands and not Asian or African etc. Plus they have fans constantly brag about said sponsorships that they do. Plus South Koreans and far east asians are top consumers of european luxury brands

so anti colonialism is an odd arguement to stand behind with a kpop pfp but okay.

Opinion: Look, If you have a precise plan and goal for promoting in America, creating a better bond with foreign audiences, expressing creativity, working with more diverse creatives, and touring in multiple different states and/or countries, solidify the artist's place in the realm of popular music while having a more freeing time doing it... I don't get the problem with an artist like Kai promoting in America. It cannot intensify the issue of Kpop artists seeming like they are pandering to the euro-colonial powers, because it's already looking pretty bad tbh.

The real issue: Freedom. The reality is when someone dynamic, attractive, and full of life has freedom, obviously they are going to meet new people, make friends, and develop in personality. The real issue is whether fans who have had an artist as a cute little toy for years.

Are they ready to find out what his real personality is when he is given freedom. The reality is that despite dating clauses not technically existing after a few years post-debut, people do not actually expect them to talk about crushes, who they find attractive, or publicly state their attraction towards someone. Personally, I believe what K-pop fans expect, which is virtual silence except when being cute, charming, funny, or flirtatious and/or childlike asexual behavior, except if it is for audience consumption, this teeters on a slave owner mindset and is very gross. A person who calls themself a K-pop idol cannot publicly date like a regular artist.

I mean, they can, but not in a traditional way. Kai and Krystal technically dated for 2 years, and they couldn't mention one another's name publicly during that entire time.

They didn't even go near one another in public after it was revealed not even at smtown's. But at least people had a magazine shoot as proof they even knew one another.

Jennie and Kai weren't event at the same event since the dating scandal happened years ago, not an award show, or any other public event. If anything a dating scandal just means the person will enter a crackdown and be forced to be more present with fans to make up for what they lost.

It is extremely normalized in Korean culture that males and females try not to even make eye contact lest it be thought of that they did something.

For this reason it's incredibly easy for fans to say it is nonexistent. This is a pretty good summary of what happened.

The accepted narrative anyway. Sadly to combat the 'negative press' of dating publicly, fans go harder on the shipping, the overs#xualization, and the unfunny jokes to move the conversation away from their dating news. Taking the fandom further and further away from reality.

Yet, at the same time since people don't see 99 percent of the artist they obsess over's life and the entire 1 percent is scripted, they don't know how these people truly act or behave, or really anything about them. So to overcompensate other parts of their personality and minor things are overblown and hyperfocused on. Praise and worship take the place of actual critical thought.

Regardless of the opinion of whether it matters to every individual supporter or not, it still had actual effects on his career. To this day his support is stronger overseas. I believe this is in conjunction to the 2 dating scandals and his appearance. Which is a whole nother thing, but with this in mind a western audience, especially one that is less likely to bash for a simple dating scandal would be a smart choice.

To the people who have a don't ask don't tell policy when it comes to artists, but just don't want the artists to date publicly to protect them, what do they know, do they even look into the analysis how when properly leveraged a relationship could be good for business and not bad. I hesitate to believe fans whenever they say they don't care if their fave dates or not anyway. Like of course you don't care, because they will continue to play their role of a perfect idol content with fanservice.

I would say it's fine, but it really isn't, even in japan idol culture there is room for growth and evolution inside the mold. They gradually moved their idol culture over to the acting scene so now the youth are somewhat used to seeing public figures dating openly, it may be a surprise but I wouldn't classify it as a scandal.

Personally, I believe if they can push kpop idols towards acting and movies, then similar to japan it wouldn't become this crazy thing and artists can be young and married without it being a frenzy.

(p.s weloveyoukento) It's not exactly perfect but it is changing for the better.

In japan the mold is forever being molded and shifted to where it needs to be, whereas in kpop it seems to be stuck in stasis with the conveyer belt model continuing.

With the art clearly showing what fans deny, that each idol group is contained and perfected to the fans whims and desires.

Understandably people want privacy in relationships, but the privacy is mostly due to their careers being built on the whims of the fans.

To be fair all boy bands historically have done this. Whether that means wearing outfits that only teen girls like, or dancing uniformly to upbeat tunes for hours on end. It isn't just kpop that stretched people to the limit and covered up their originality.

Regardless of the location, race, or culture/ethnicity of said boy band this was all true, but in Kpop there is a specific desire to control the entire person as a product and as a human and this is something the fans are willing to ignore to recieve whatever fanservice they want.

Nobody cares who their local restaraunt owner or store employee dates, because they don't go to the store for them they go for the product, BUT in K-pop the artists are the product, the emotional relationship with fans is apart of the deal. Therefore they feel almost a sense of surrealness when thinking about them in a public relationship. Personally, I believe even western people struggle with having an odd fascination with who a person does or does not date, but again this is because people craft an image that makes it unbelivable if they go against it.

Whether it's a fake relationship or a real one, the point is that with either you would expect something like a conversation or a small mention during an interview, but typically Kpop stars are not allowed to do such a thing, ever. That is just how it is in K-pop. Whether the fans are native Korean or foreigner fans, much of the same behavior is expected. No one can say they have seen an artist's real personality. It isn't possible. Nearly everything is scripted.

In some cases, like Taemin's, they didn't even know their actual personalities.

They can go out and do things for fun, but it is expected that whatever they do not be noticeable to fans. Everything is expected to be hidden or undercover to be respectful of the fans. Because the artists are firstly marketed as boyfriends and girlfriends for the fans. Regardless of how it is spun, this is the marketing promotion; otherwise, suggestive music videos wouldn't really be necessary, nor would high-five events of ...fansigns.

I don't want to act like K-pop invented this.

It did not

or pretend that it is even the most extreme version of marketing love to strangers out of an exotic curiosity;

because it isn't. This has been happening for ages, but I will say that kpop has this unique hold where evolution doesn't exist. Since the 1990s I think kpop has gone backwards, before it was normal for idols girlfriends to leave the performance venues with them.

Now if a girlfriend posts something on her social that even implies they are together it is cause for fans to burn merch and say rude and innapropriate things online out of vendicated anger.

Even having a boyfriend or close male friend can invoke the ire of fans who have crafted an idol's desires to their imaginations, even if they themselves have no interest in them.

So if they do something unexpected like date a man, even though they "hate men" people have full blown meltdowns and delete their accounts out of embarrassment.

I've seen it happen to so many people. They refuse to accept a possibility and when it happens they loose it.

I know that people have sensitivities about Kpop people becoming more free, and honestly I think it's for the best. I do not think people want the ownership that fans feel to grow even more. They need more open and honest interviews, less objectfication and more laying out the facts instead of fans being so bored they hyperfixate on fake gossip to the point of it being more real than reality.

But no seriously all jokes aside, please somebody explain to Kai what pandering to an audience means. Doing things specifically to appeal to others whims and desires that you as a grown adult person probably don't want to do, but you must because of dinero, guap or cash money. Cause clearly he is just a giant stuffed animal and he has no ideal how it works, how anything at all works actually, he just dresses like this on stage because..I mean like what else would he wear, duh! How could he be expected to pander to the euro-colonial-objectifying axis of evil...

He's like..never even done that before....

[septembersghost]

Something that confuses me is that why does someone use their special award winning moment to drag someone you have never met or never did anything to you. I hate people who drag harry for clout because its popular now. The internet have turned on him sm that everyone is praising that editor for 'dragging harry and acknowledging privilege'. I genuinely think there will be more of these. This seems like the hate red era taylor faced. Like 'ha ha I dragged him I am a funny man' when the joke is su

per cringe and people find it funny because it is about someone they hate. This cancel culture need to be cancelled

was this at the oscars, i feel like i missed something?

nvm google has presented it to me, i...well was a bit emotionally distracted that night haha and i didn't pay attention to anyone's speeches backstage. ugh.

wow, that's so absurd and petty (and it's not even close to the same field of art or entertainment, so what exactly is the comparison?). i have a gifset of h from long before the grammys saved with essentially that same speech, we all know it's his tour speech and he defaulted to that out of nerves, and also because he does mean that, given his background. additionally, harry has recognized his privilege aloud many times, and did so again at the brits. what happened for him in his career is extremely rare. it's also very weird to me that everyone is complaining about nepo babies and rich people getting headstarts in the industry (a valid concern at times), but then when someone comes from a humble background and puts in the work, talent, and effort and climbs up, people hate on them too, so...you cannot win either way? it's annoying. acknowledging privilege matters, but at the oscars q&a, he was not doing that in a constructive way.

anyway, as usual, the haters of the internet can well and truly fuck off, and the miserable people who drag others for their success or authenticity are just 🤷🏻‍♀️ not worth our time. it sucks that he took his big moment to do this for social media points, and it's lousy that people will automatically laugh and back that up, but ultimately it has no bearing on harry himself, and tbh i don't think the general public, who just enjoy his music, care about or think negatively regarding any of this. trolls will be trolls and we shouldn't feed them. it's very unfair, but i don't believe the backlash towards h will ever get as bad as taylor's was for a few reasons (i hope anyway! he doesn't deserve it, like she didn't). i know it hurts and is bothersome right now, but there's nothing cancellable happening for harry here, his fans love him, he'll be fine, and in a few weeks no one will remember this either.

[ladywaifuuwrites]

Male pillars dealing with the silent treatment

Request: Hi!! Can i request HCs of the male pillars dealing with the silent treatment after they messed up during an argument with their s/o?

A/n: Hiiiii sorry if this took so long. *sighs* I don’t why Tengen’s part made that turn, idk it just popped into my head. 

warnings: implied sex on Tengen’s part just one sentence tbh akdlhdsalhdsjkhfahla

wdyhm will be continued!

Giyuu Tomioka

this man is naturally silent and you’re giving him the silent treatment? 

he will just sigh at you, thinking that it’s normal after an argument and you need time

you want him to show you affection and do the things the boyfriend does when their s/o is mad

Giyuu is clueless asf 

so your situation doesn’t get better, it only gets worse when you think that “Oh hE doEsN’t cArE ABoUt mE” 

will ask other people for help because his relationship is falling apart

then they slap him with the truth and he goes “😮” 

will shower you with the things you want and apologize with his down puppy look

of course he’s cute so you forgive him 

problem solved✔️ now he knows what to do when you give him the silent treatment 

Muichiro Tokito

man is clueless too, does he even know you’re upset after fighting? 

he will be doing his usual lovey dovey things with you but you don’t reciprocate his actions, so he goes ‘????”

A lightbulb clicks beside him and now he knows why you’re acting this way 

becomes secretive to you that upsets you even further

you’re just surprised when he shows you a grand romantic gesture that’s extremely not himself

all negative emotions you harbor towards him is gone at a blink of an eye

mui made all this for you with his time and effort <333

when you first started dating you know he isn’t a fan of grand gestures

but now here he is.

some things do change, especially if its for you💖

Kyojuro Rengoku

wow best boyfriend ever

he knew he messed up the moment you walked out on him

you keep on giving him the silent treatment

and he doesn’t like that one bit

so he does everything he could just to get your affection back 

name it: casual little dates. flowers, things that make you happy, jokes that make you laugh, then you frown because remember? you’re supposed to be upset.

he sees right through you and suddenly tackles you to speak to him 

“Come on baby, don’t do this to me. Speak hmm?” “Kyojuro get off me!!” 

He lets you breathe and you compose yourself with your eyebrows etched together

will pepper you kisses afterwards to make you talk

and you talk it out like the mature couple you are

Tengen Uzui

he’s sad to see you treat him like this :((

but he knows he’s the reason because he’s the one who messed up. man knows his faults 

so he will shower you with affection to make up for the one lost between you two

you’re still annoyed at him tho…..

Tengen tries hard to be the ‘perfect boyfriend’ you said you wanted when you two were still not dating. But being that kind of guy is hard, he’s going to come up to you saying: 

“(Y/n) I’m sorry for the things I’ve said….”

And if you forgive him after that heartfelt apology he made, then everything’s alright.

But if you don’t forgive him……

Then bitch you’re up for some make up sex 

In the end he’s the kind of guy to do anything just to make you look at him again. Tengen cannot live without you.

Sanemi Shinazugawa

pure softie on the inside, don’t get fooled by his looks

when you don’t talk to him with that grumpy face of yours, he also leaves you be for you to cool down. He’s just like Giyuu but more knowledgeable on relationships. 

the silent treatment extends and now he knows whats up.

will come knocking at your door with food and a smile that’s only reserved for you 

i feel like he’s on the lets-talk-this-out side too, so halfway through when you’re leaning onto him again, he will ask you to rant and speak whatever’s bugging your mind

and he will take everything you say into account to improve himself and fix his wrongs.

“Okay I understand, I’m sorry baby.” Sanemi whispers sweet apologies while he kisses your head, and you snuggling in to his warmth.

Expect lots of spoiling and showering of love days after. You giving him the silent treatment has been hell for him even though its just a few days.

Obanai Iguro

he will probably furrow his brows coz “why the fuck is she acting like that?”

another clueless boyfriend moment *sighs* he doesn’t know he messed up. so he will ask you about it, with his hands soothing your arms to coax you into telling him.

unfortunately you don’t budge and just went to sleep, leaving the man to wonder for hours

then it hits him

“shit” 

next day and you wake up to find him, bringing a tray of breakfast to your bed. he kisses your forehead, mumbling apologies about how he was insensitive to your feelings. 

you forgive him of course, seeing how genuine everything he does and say

he learned from this and will make it a mission to not let arguments escalate to the point of you giving him the silent treatment.

he was inwardly panicking that you will break up with him when he received the silent treatment lol.

Gyomei Himejima 

if you try to fight with this man i- you just can’t.

Gyomei is just too pure to hurt with the silent treatment😭 

and if you do decide to be hard-hearted and cold...

he will approach you with a confused look on his face that makes your heart wrench in pain 

“(Y/n)...what did i do wrong? please talk to me.” 

🥺😭

it would probably end with you apologizing and crying for being so petty and mean.

he would apologize for his wrongs too, because he doesn’t want to be met with your harsh coldness. 

he’s one of the most mature guys in kny. he will not let you sleep upset with him. 

again im so sorry for the super late post

[forestlingincorporated]

I wanna talk about Janet Drake

I’m not against exaggeratedly evil versions of Tim’s parents, tbh. It’s fanfiction, if we can depict an Exaggeratedly Good version of Bruce (which we can, and I do, and I love) then we can depict the Drakes as Exaggeratedly Bad. As someone who personally identifies with Tim, and his brand of complicated parental abuse in particular, I find it cathartic to uncomplicate that abuse and rescue him from the Obviously Evil Bad People. 

That said, since much of comics lore is passed down word of mouth, the oral tradition surrounding Tim has developed this idea of Janet as The Worse Parent between her and Jack that was never really present in the comics. We see much LESS of Janet, and we have 20 years worth of comics depicting Jack as a neglectful hotheaded idiot who ultimate does love his son. More importantly, Jack isn’t very much LIKE Tim, so there is a habit to attribute Tim’s traits to his mother... and, as someone who really really identifies with Tim, Tim has... some negative traits. Tim can be a bitch sometimes. He’s fiercely intelligent and sweet and kind, with a strong sense of justice, but he can be cold and judgmental and unthinking - he fights those traits, but he does have them. 

And it is perfectly fine to depict Janet that way. I’ve enjoyed depictions of Cold Calculating Janet Drake, but it’s not the ONLY option, and I want to challenge fans to consider different avenues. Tim could pick up these traits from anywhere: a nanny, Mrs. Mc Ilvaine (”Mrs. Mac”), a teacher, tv, Sherlock Holmes novels, Bruce Wayne himself. Tim is capable of not being like EITHER parent. 

So, what do we KNOW about Janet? (I’ll also touch on Jack, but only in scenes he appears with Janet.) 

When Janet was first introduced she was depicted as a gentle but “modern” woman. This was written in 1989, told by a 13 year old Tim, so this theoretically was meant to take place in 1979. I’m not here to give a lecture on the history of sex discrimination in the united states, but much of the legislation protecting women in the workforce or surrounding women’s bodily autonomy would have been very very new in this initial depiction. 

Here, Janet is shown to be encouraging, emotional, maternal, and projects her own feelings onto Tim. Jack is shown to be slightly sexist, possibly discouraging, but not overbearing. And the artist is shown not to know how to draw children. 

To insert some speculation, I think it’s important to note all the Drakes witnessed a terrible murder/accident that day. I point this out, because this is the last time Jack and Janet are depicted this way. It’s possible they changed as a result of this event specifically. 

However, this is also a story being told by Tim. It’s also possible these events aren’t really “real” at all, and Tim is misremembering what his parents were like as a three-year-old, possibly projecting a more palatable version of his parents into the narrative. This is entirely up to personal interpretation. 

In fact, the Drakes are shown in Legend of the Dark Knight attending Haly’s Circus, and the artist knows what a toddler looks like and they’re depicted as already having a slightly strained relationship. Jack is clearly on the defensive, and Janet seems to be passive-aggressive, though she could just be attempting to explain the situation to her toddler honestly. The intended tone isn’t especially clear. 

I do want to point out, in this depiction, Tim isn’t being carried like he was in the previous one. He’s walking ahead of his parents, which isn’t a terrible horrible crime, but could be dangerous in a crowded place like the circus. Might be a subtle hint to his parents overall neglect. 

Back to A Lonely Place of Dying, in Tim’s memories of the night he discovered Robin and Dick Grayson were the same person at nine-years-old, his parents are home, and watching TV together while Tim played... trucks, idk, in the living room with them. (This is semi-interesting, because you could say “oh, Tim liked vehicle toys as a kid” or you could extrapolate that this is another subtle indication of Jack’s sexism, providing Tim with appropriately “boy toys.” Either interpretation is valid. If Tim was assigned female at birth, would they have been given “girl toys,” or allowed to play with whatever they wanted?) 

This is, to my knowledge, the only panel of the Drakes when Tim is between ages 3 and 13. They’re all together, which might indicate that the Drakes were home more often when Tim was 9, only later going on business trips when Tim was “old enough” but... 

This is Tim’s boarding school when he’s 13. While most boarding schools in the US are for grades 9-12, Tim is clearly not a freshman at age 13; look how much younger the other kids in this panel are. In the US, the youngest you can attend most boarding schools is 7. 

That means Tim could have begun going to boarding school anytime between 7 and 13. He most likely spent all of middle school in boarding school, at least. There are an almost infinite number of possible ways the Drakes handled having a business that required lots of international travel, an archeology hobby, AND a very young child. Janet staying home until Tim was 7, 11, 13, is equally possible as the Drakes having a nanny until 7, 11, 13. Tim just doesn’t talk about that period of his life very much.

(”What about Mrs. Mac?” - it is unclear when Mrs. Mac begins working for the Drakes. We only see her when Jack comes out of his coma. She could either be a long standing staff member, or a recent hire.) 

Note: I’ve seen it said that it’s canon that “According to Tim, when his parents were home, they made a point to try and include him in their activities, bringing him along to events that were normally adults only.” I have never seen this panel, or I don’t remember it, so I cannot confirm, but I also cannot debunk this because... comics. 

By the time Tim is 13, Jack and Janet are away on business trips a lot, with limited communication, and no firm return date. If I’m feeling generous, I’d say it was harder to communicate internationally in 1990 than it is today. If I’m not feeling generous, I’d say the Drakes are extremely wealthy, and international communication was easier than ever before in the 80s and 90s. They’re not even going home to see Tim in a week or two, they’re going home and calling Tim at boarding school in a week or two. 

Even Bruce thinks its weird, though he doesn’t say so to Tim’s face. It’s written almost as if Tim’s parents’ neglect was meant to be a plot point that just got forgotten about. 

Tim’s parents are fighting at this point (their poor assistant), but Janet still goes with Jack on these business trips. And she’s clearly involved in the business, somehow, but the comics never SAY what Janet’s JOB is. We’re told Jack is the exec, but Janet is ONLY ever referred to as Jack’s wife, though they’re later described as the “heads” of the company, plural. 

Just to be clear, this is Jack’s business. There’s a perception that Jack is a bad business man because he and Janet fight over company decisions, and Jack looses the business after Janet dies, but Jack looses the company YEARS after Janet dies, and maintains it for about a year after No Man’s Land at that. We’re not told how Jack looses the business, but he’s got to be doing something right. Janet isn’t necessarily the “real brains” of Drake Industries. 

And I’m not... gonna... touch the... exploitation and racism because... I’m not qualified to do that. But, here’s the panel. The Drakes sure seem exploitative and racist in their business decisions. Someone else can... analyze that with more nuance. 

Regardless how how long they’ve been fighting, when their lives are in danger, the Drakes fall back into a loving husband and wife. Their marriage may be falling apart, but they do care about each other. 

I want to show these panels because it shows that Tim and Jack do have things in common. They’re both level headed in a crisis and can be somewhat cold in their practicality. Janet meanwhile and silent. Jack is later willing rant and rave at their captors, but Janet remains silent. 

That is, until they’re alone, and she finally lets herself fall apart. 

God, Jack can be obnoxious. Janet just looks miserable and resigned. I actually think Tim takes after his parents in this respect in equal measure. Tim can have a temper, but he can also be fairly melancholy and defeatist. 

Jack keeps reminding Janet to be strong and in control, which could be period typical sexism? But Jack seems so practiced and ready with the words of encouragement, and with Tim’s history with depression, I wonder if Janet has an inclination towards it as well. 

As the end approaches, when Jack brings up Tim, Janet seems to have a lot of regret. She talks about “wasting” the good things, and I don’t think it’s too big of a stretch to assume she’s talking about time spent with her only child. 

From this point on, Janet is at times spoken of, but not seen. Like here, when Jack says Janet wouldn’t approve of him and Tim being so “far apart.” He says this after he tells him he takes back his threat to send him back to boarding school, which might imply Janet was against the idea of boarding school? Though she obviously lost that argument when she was alive. 

Jack will of course renege on this later, but that’s Jack Drake for you. 

Or here in Tim’s illness induced dream, where he gets everything he wants. Though, since this is a fantasy of Tim’s, where his father and girlfriend are both more accepting and understanding than they are in real life, I would take this depiction of Janet with a grain of salt. 

After loosing Drake Industries, Jack thinks about Janet (though, they call her Catherine/Cathy for some fucking reason) during his depressive episode. And... uh... 

Hallucinates a Valkyrie???? Is this symbolic of suicidal thoughts, or is she... real? Or is he seriously hallucinating? 

Anyway, we’re not here to discuss Jack’s mental state, the fact that he forgot Tim’s birthday, or that concerning “I was going to knock some sense into you but you’re still bigger than me” statement from Tim, we’re here to talk about Janet. And even though this entire arc is about Jack mourning his first wife, they don’t SAY anything about Janet herself at all. I mean, they don’t even get her name right, so I guess what was I expecting. 

Then there’s Origins and Omens, which also doesn’t say anything about Janet, except that Tim’s memory of her is faulty - Janet was poisoned, her assistant Jeremy’s throat was slit on television, but Tim seems to have conflated the death he did see with the death he didn’t. 

The only piece of canon to suggest that Janet might be cold, is Tim compares her to Thalia. And even then, he’s really just saying Janet was protective of him. It’s kind of a scary look to make at your kid, but Bruce does the same thing, so. 

I do want to say... it’s not 100% clear if Tim is even talking about Janet. He could be talking about Dana. Dana was observably protective of Tim, though I don’t think he’s ever called her mom. He PROBABLY means Janet. 

And finally we have Tim visiting his mother’s grave (in a duel Christian/Jewish cemetery, make of that what you will), where Tim says she was “a little religious.”

And that’s it! That is all we know about Janet Drake in New Earth. Hardly the Mom From Hell, but she isn’t perfect. I’d be interested in seeing some alternate depictions of her within the fandom. 

I’m still gonna eat up Terrible Parents From Hell like a starving puppy dog, though. Just some food for creative thought. 

[floralovebot]

I'd love to read more about what you think about how often they get in trouble! And since you said Riven would get flack for Musa's songs, do you think he'd get flack for having dated Darcy?

FUCK YEAH DUDE

Fair warning, this is a bit long!

So, for the Winx, I said that most to least likely to get in trouble was Musa, Stella - Bloom, Flora, Tecna, and then Aisha. And for the Specialists, I said Riven, Sky, Brandon, Helia, and then Timmy. Again, I do think who's the most hated greatly depends on the planet and culture, so how often they get into trouble also depends on this (for instance, Stella having a more laid back approach to certain things may get her in trouble on Zenith, but not on Solaria).

Musa: The classic problematic. It's not that she's a bad person, she's just in the news a lot. Sometimes it's about another heartbreak song, sometimes it's about a fight she had with Riven in public, sometimes it's about her dry humor and sarcasm being interpreted as mean, and other times it's about some vague tweet she wrote and never deleted. She advocates for a lot of good stuff and definitely uses her platform to try and change things so she's not the worst celebrity out there, but she also tends to speak before she knows everything and that can occasionally be a problem. She fiercely defends the others when they get into trouble and constantly vagues "news sources" (aka drama sites) so people still view her as a little negative by proxy. (Also, some people think her being a fairy of music gave her an unfair advantage in the music industry and that she isn't actually talented.)

Stella - Bloom: I'm putting them on the same level because I think they're both fairly similar in how often they get into drama. As princesses who often get involved in things, their every movement is under scrutiny. Stella handles it a lot better than Bloom due to her media training and being watched since she was young.

Bloom usually tries to stay out of the negative spotlight but that often makes her seem avoidant of important issues. She does speak up about things but it's usually after days of editing and rewriting her words so she gets accused of only talking about something because people wanted her to. She also tends to get nervous answering anything about politics or Domino so that makes people reluctant to listen to her words. Then there's the obvious drama with Sky. While they aren't as public as Rivusa, things get out quickly and when they're in a heated moment they tend to forget about their surroundings. People from Eraklyon tend to hate both of them because Bloom is "too loud and angry and just being rude" and Sky is "forgetting his place and rising to the challenge, not a great sign for a future king". On the flip side, Bloom has saved the magical universe multiple times and continues to do so. Basically, she's one of those celebrities that you either really love or really hate.

Stella is another classic problematic! Again, it's not that she's a bad person, she just gets noticed a lot. People accuse her of being classist and ignorant just because she's royalty. They also hate whenever she spends a lot of money on things like clothing and makeup because it's seen as a wasted expense (since most of her money pre-S3 was coming from her parents). People absolutely see her as a spoiled brat that can't read the room and doesn't deserve to be queen. Stella often tries to prove those ideas wrong in very subtle ways because she knows outright denying them would only further the problem. But just like the others, she spends a lot of time advocating for the good and for the better. She also cares deeply about her friends and it's obvious to everyone, even the people that hate her. So while she is in the news a lot, most people can see through it and support her. But she does still get into trouble for her shopping sprees. Her spending a lot of money on things is largely why people sometimes have trouble being on her side. It's almost always seen as a spoiled princess move and a large factor in why people think she's classist and/or ignorant.

Flora: Flora is interesting because a lot of people initially assume that because she's a very shy and nice girl that she won't get into any drama. So it's a complete surprise when she argues with people online and starts calling people out. She's often fighting for the right thing and she rarely gets her facts wrong, but people hate getting called out and they hate it when someone they think should be quiet and nice goes to town on their ass. Even the people that agree with her often think she's too aggressive in her replies (while others think her tone is fine). Flora also isn't extremely open about her personal life outside of fighting crime with the Winx so that doubles her online persona as being just mean and "too political". People say that she should just stick to watering plants and leave the politics to the actual politicians. She responds by calling them hypocrites since they were just asking for celebrities to use their platforms. She gets called out for thinking she's a celebrity. She responds that she has a large platform and people follow her for her work. It's just a constant cycle and she never runs out of things to say (which isn't bad, but it always gets her into trouble). Tbh, I can also see the exact opposite where Flora just doesn't get involved in anything because she's too busy posting pictures of her plants and random dogs she sees but, I think eventually the need to defend her friends would win out and once she gets a little taste of activism, she wouldn't stand down (yknow how she constantly berates the Winx for wanting to attack the controlled animals? Basically like that. She has very strong moral opinions).

Tecna: I had some trouble with this because I almost wanted to put her last but overall I think her general personality would get her into trouble more than what happens with Aisha. Tecna is often blunt and she doesn't necessarily hide when she doesn't like something. So sometimes reporters will come up to her and ask her a question and she'll just hit them with an "I don't want to talk to you." and then walks away. Tecna doesn't see anything wrong with this because she views being honest to the media as relatively important as they could easily find out if she's lying through spying and technology. Overall, people just see her as a little too honest and she gets into trouble a lot with being open about not wanting to interact with fans a lot or being cautious about press.

Aisha: It's a bit surprising that a princess is the last on the list no? Andros has a very good handle on things like media and press, and while they definitely aren't controlling it by any means, most news sites know not to mess with them. They're very strict on things like personal boundaries and privacy and try to protect anyone who could be affected by the media (celebrities, online personas, royals, athletes, etc). Aisha also has the best media training out of all the Winx and is really good at knowing what to say and what to share. People know just enough about her social life through sns that they aren't constantly asking about it but not enough to try and cancel her for anything. She's almost seen as the goody-goody of the bunch since she just doesn't get into a lot of drama (and when she does it's handled extremely well).

Now the Specialists!

Riven: It's no surprise that he's first I mean cmon. With Musa being the most "problematic" of the Winx, Riven is bound to get his fair share of scrutiny. People absolutely judge him for having a past with Darcy. Although... I really don't think it would be the biggest factor. While he did genuinely like Darcy, she used magic on him multiple times to manipulate his thoughts and then later betrayed him. Riven wouldn't want to put unnecessary hate on all witches, but he'd also be mad enough to eventually allude to what actually happened (he'd never outright say it since it also hurts his pride). Most people accept that he got manipulated by Darcy and assume that the entirety of the relationship was based on that, which Riven doesn't like either, but trying to defend her wouldn't exactly help his case. On the other hand, the relationship he does get hated for is his relationship with Musa. Musa definitely shares the good and cute stories about them too, but her sad/angry heartbreak songs are always the ones that get remembered. People assume he's a lot worse than he actually is and whenever Musa or one of the others tries to defend him, they just assume Riven manipulated them into doing that. However, after S4, people get a lot more understanding of the relationship and there isn't as much hate towards him (he does still get called out for being a bit brutish though).

Sky: I almost put Sky as first, but then I remembered he's royalty and definitely has a PR team. Still, he gets into a lot of drama. The Diaspro/Bloom situation was blown out of proportion and every news site was reporting completely different things. To some, Sky is a dirty cheater that lied to his wife and got some random girlfriend, "who knows how many other girls he's talking to! Someone get his phone records with Stella". To others, Sky and Diaspro were happily engaged before homewrecker Bloom came in. And to others, Sky was just the prince trying to protect his identity and got wrapped into some catfight. No one knows what actually happened with them but a lot of people start to assume Diaspro was in the wrong once it's confirmed Sky is officially dating Bloom. They start actively hating her when she tries to magic her way into a relationship with him. And that's just the relationship stuff! Erakylon's politics are so weak and absolutely crumbling before our eyes. Sky would constantly get asked about specific things to try and break him and it doesn't help that the media sites from the other royal characters are the ones doing it.

Brandon: Is this ranking a bit surprising? Idk? But anyway, Brandon would literally just get hated by proxy. Most of his "drama" includes what's happening with Sky and/or Stella. If one of them is getting into trouble, then people are bringing him into it for absolutely no reason. Brandon knows more about Eraklyon and Solaria's political climates than he will ever need to know. While he doesn't have as much media training as Sky, he does have to follow some rules just so Sky doesn't get into trouble for what he says. That means he can't speak up about as many issues and he certainly can't constantly defend his friends from harsh words. He tries to get away with it by liking comments instead of making his own. It helps a little.

Helia: Helia gets into the same exact trouble that he gets into with the Winx fandom. He's quiet and he shares absolutely nothing about his personal life. He's an artist but he doesn't post about it nor does he talk about it. He avoids talking to the press and when he does its always vague answers that could mean anything. Helia cares a lot about Saladin and Red Fountain's image and we know that what he does affects said image. So he treads very carefully and doesn't involve himself in anything. However, this is largely what gets him into trouble. People hate that he's not open about anything and some even go to the extreme of thinking he's suspicious. While Saladin's legacy largely protects him from this, it doesn't protect him from the media and random people constantly asking about his personal life. Helia also rarely if ever defends the others online (1. as he almost never looks at it and 2. because he doesn't want to get involved). He comforts them and gives advice to their face but no one else sees that so people often call him things like "pretentious, two-faced, avoidant, etc". People are also weirdly suspicious about his relationship with Flora because "it can't be that good right? there's definitely something suspicious about them".

Timmy: Timmy's just a genuinely nice guy that rarely gets into trouble. He chooses his battles (so to speak) very wisely so when he does defend the others online, it's almost always something a majority of people will agree with. Almost all of his social media is about the latest in technology and gaming so he's pretty big in those crowds but most media sites can't really do anything with that. Sometimes people from Zenith see him as weird but they recognize that he's a good match for Tecna so they're okay with him. By the time all of the Specialists are truly in the spotlight, he's already gotten buffer and more confident so those issues from S1 wouldn't be a huge deal either. The others also speak highly of him so no one really doubts that he's a good specialist. For the most part, he just doesn't get into trouble and when he does it's always connected to someone else rather than something he alone said/did.

[pinkjiminssi]

So.. About That Hickey..

I think I’m still processing all of this and reminding myself I’m not dreaming 🤣 I seriously only got 3 hours of sleep last night and when I woke up the first thing I did was check twitter to be sure this “drunk bridal-style spinning hickey neck biting proudly showing off” moment actually happened!! 

.. I hate the way my brain works though. I was so happy that it took me forever to fall asleep, spent all day on cloud 9 despite being tired, .. and then my old nemesis, anxiety, stepped in. Well kind of. TBH if all of the MOTS ON:E Jikook moments we got happened with Jimin/anyone else or Jungkook/anyone else.. I would seriously be sitting here saying “well fuck.. I believe they WERE a couple, but looking at all of this it seems they are no longer together.” So really, this just confirmed what I already knew about Jimin and Jungkook: they’re a couple. My anxiety is over.. why? Why show us this? If they can cover all of JK’s tattoos, a hickey/bite mark/whatever we’re calling it should be super easy to hide. Sure it was just rehearsal.. but it was rehearsal with cameras rolling with every intention of releasing what was being filmed as future content. It could have (and some might argue should have) been covered.

Guys... I’m confused. And concerned. ❗❗❗ TW for drama, hate, homophobia, the usual anti issues

That “official” explanation.. again.. why? I’m assuming Jimin and Jungkook were asked and allowed to explain because of the chance of it being spotted and armys freaking out, so BH (or possibly even Jikook) thought to get ahead of the speculation by just being up front about it all.. but THAT explanation? I suppose it works for covering up the army panic of “Jungkook has a girlfriend?! *insert fangirl sobbing*” .. but that’s literally all it does (and only barely if you go looking at some of the anti’s reactions to it all). Really, all it did was draw even more attention and speculation. I mean.. this is, essentially, what we were told: Jimin and Jungkook were together the night before drinking, apparently without the other members as they didn’t seem to know all of this already (and they would have if they had been there), somehow hanging out and having drinks turns into Jungkook picking Jimin up bridal style (random but some of the k-army reactions on twitter were translating through google into “princess style” and I just think that’s so cute 🥰), spinning ensues, Jimin gets dizzy and wants Jungkook to put him down, ... and so he proceeds to do the only logical thing that any of us would have done in that situation... biting Jungkook’s neck? And hard enough to leave a mark the next day?? And instead of being peeved about it (like most of us would have been if our friend bit the crap out of us), Jungkook looks happy?? proud even??? 

And they arrived together the next day and continue to be cute and playful? 

I just.. I mean.. come on. First of all.. that’s a hickey. A bite leaves teeth marks. And one would assume a wild, drunken “let me down” chomp would be something that happens suddenly and ends very quickly. I know I for sure would drop someone on their ass if they decided to take a bite out of my neck (assuming I was even picking up and spinning around with one of my friends like that to begin with.. but let’s not even get into why that was going on at this point) .. but the way this bruised? Yeah. There were no teeth involved (at least not hard enough to leave indentations) and this took more than a couple of seconds of mouth-to-neck contact to still be that visible the next day. So.. in short. Jungkook arrives with a hickey, JK decides to not cover it up (or he would have shown up with it hidden and we see him get out of the car that morning with it clearly visible), BH staff sees it and also decides to not have it covered up and actually have it explained... and the explanation is “oh yeah Jimin just bit him, you know.. no big deal hehehe isn’t that funny?” 🤯 WHAT?! Yeah.. that’s totally normal, platonic behavior between adults...

I’m not saying Jimin and Jungkook are lying btw. I have no doubt it played out more or less exactly as they said with the exception of what they’re calling the end result. Jimin and Jungkook are fine.. I mean, what were they supposed to say? They’re not going to show up saying Jimin was sucking on Jungkook’s neck the night before. We’ll probably never know why Jungkook decided to not cover it up before arriving, but it’s his body and he gets to decide. It’s BH that has me so puzzled. Other than antis and people who refuse to see what’s literally right in front of their faces when it comes to Jikook.. who were BH expecting to believe the bite thing? Just among staff and the other members, it’s a laughable but safe “oh of course *wink wink*” explanation that allows everyone to carry on like normal. But to the public who don’t know them personally, don’t know their usual behavior and patterns, and who don’t have something like a non-disclosure agreement or professional courtesy preventing them from openly speculating.. it doesn’t fly. Pretty much everyone teen and up knows what a hickey looks like (either from having gotten/given one or at least seeing one on someone else in person or online). It’s immediately obvious what it is. And even if there was some uncertainty.. that it’s on his neck (instead of other easily accessible and less sensitive/stimulating locations) and just so happens to be right near his mole as it Jimin were aiming for it? Just another “too many coincidences” thing when it comes to Jikook.

Even antis on twitter couldn’t deny what it was and, so, had to resort to the “well I do that with my sibling and my uncle’s pet raccoon all the time it’s just family things” excuse and/or the “yeah well someone ELSE in the group (or a girlfriend) gave him that and they’re just covering by saying it was Jimin.” Oh. And the same old “it’s just fan service” excuse (as if Jungkook would let someone bruise his neck for the purposes of fanservice which, again, BTS has never done or needed to do. Forever pissed off that so many in this fandom act like Jungkook is a puppet doing whatever the “evil company” tells him to do regardless of his personal feelings or boundaries. The man has tattoos covering nearly every inch of his arm despite that being looked down on in Korea. At this point he can do whatever the fuck he wants). So.. why?? Seriously, why? This all could have easily been avoided with simple makeup.

When they’re doing official content they’re all literally followed around by a flurry of staff fixing hair, dabbing sweat, touching up makeup, etc. Even though it was rehearsal, staff were everywhere in the footage that’s made its way online. If they were worried that it would be seen in the background and “taken the wrong way,” just have the staff occasionally touch up the makeup. “Easy peasy lemon squeezy.” But instead of doing the obvious, BH decides to: not cover it, draw attention to it by asking about it and letting them continue to talk about it, go out of their way to get a camera on it, and then include it in the final cut of the content they sent out?

BTS is literally the most popular group in the world right now and BH has become a behemoth of a company that runs like a well-oiled machine. They’re not stupid; this was not a mistake. For some reason they wanted us to see this and, one would assume based on the lack of a more believable explanation, they wanted us to come to the conclusion that we all have: Jimin gave Jungkook a hickey. You know they have teams dedicated to monitoring reactions to content on social media. You know they know the dialog surrounding Rosebowl, Black Swan MMA, the Memories 2020 “almost kiss,” etc. etc. All of this got “jikook,” “hickey” and variations of their names trending for HOURS (in multiple countries and worldwide). 

Out of curiosity, I decided to check the trends at the time of writing this. As of 3 AM CST (about 24 hours AFTER the clips started showing up online), there was still a hashtag trending related to all of this: #FREEJUNGKOOK.. and the tweets being directed toward BH are.. disturbing to say the least:

While I agree that the boys should trend more often based on their talents and music.. what’s going on right now is a homophobic 💩 show accusing BH of “scripting” interactions (rather than.. you know.. Jungkook interacting with whoever he wants however he wants.. the usual “mindless puppet JK” narrative), trying to coordinate the mass sending of angry emails, trying to get people to stop buying paid content, accusing BH of taking advantage of the members.. I mean it goes on and on. And BH know what’s going on right now. They’re seeing the reactions... the good and the extremely negative. And still they let this out. And this is all not even CONSIDERING the mountain of other moments that made the cut on MOTS ON:E. 

(side note, the above pic just oozes happiness and it’s so cute I love it!! 😭)

So.. even though I’ve said it dozens of times already... WHY? W H Y? I’m an anxious person by nature and not very trusting. I believe Jimin and Jungkook and I don’t think they’ve been lying and pretending for “fanservice” all of these years. I respect them both too much as individuals and artists to believe that they would stoop to such tactics just to generate a little more “interest” and revenue. I’m suspicious of BH. BTS doesn’t need fanservice to get attention; literally all of 2020 and 2021 so far has proven that beyond a doubt. Even if they suddenly made the decision to do fs.. why not go with the most popular ship (taekook) or at least one that isn’t so hotly debated on social media (remove Jimin, Jungkook and Tae from the equation and you still have four members to “play” with who have much less potential to have fs devolve into a toxic crap show all over the internet). Showing us this will do nothing to help BTS as a group or Jimin and Jungkook at this point. In fact.. all it can do is hurt. Hurt BH, hurt the group, and hurt the individual members, heck.. even potentially hurt other BH/HYBE groups. I’ve already seen people on twitter saying they’re “done” spending money on anything BH or BTS puts out because they’re “sick of jikook in their faces and just two of the seven hogging all of the screen time.” Whether or not that “spending freeze” actually materializes into anything noticeable remains to be seen of course.. but the threat is there and always has been. What is the motive? And why now? As much as my “hopeless romantic” heart would like to believe they’re preparing us for Jikook to be “out” .. I seriously don’t think that is ever going to happen. Certainly not now at the height of the group’s fame, with them being given Presidential honors and ambassador status, and with military service still looming over them all. And let’s not forget... Korea is NOT a safe place for a queer couple. Letting us see and know what they did through what was released has the potential to put Jimin and Jungkook (and the other members by proxy) in danger. Sure.. BTS has never been hardline rule followers and have been breaking molds and shattering norms from the start, so “officially” having an openly gay couple in the group wouldn’t be impossible.. just... highly highly improbable. Especially right now... and I’m concerned. I don’t want to sound like the creeps I posted a screenshot of above throwing blame at the company. The boys chose to renew their contracts with the for a reason so we have to trust their judgement as a group... but still, I’m worried and I’m questioning what the purpose was here. 

[angeloncewas]

Twitter in general (whether it is the mcytwt or the haters) both feel like cults - one is for demonizing people and the other for idolizing people (certain ccs). Like I have talked about how once, how fucking collaborated haters can get (trending a hashtag about Dream being dead? b.c of a dox? taking over a hashtag to send racist comments towards Dream stans? planning a raid on the MASK comment sections/and disliking the video? planning to create an edit of Drm saying the n slur when he doesn't.

It's really sad. I'm someone who engages in a lot of criticism and frankly is surrounded by a lot of negativity (it's the mental illness, innit), but I still couldn't even begin to muster a fraction of the absolute vitriol some people online exhibit. Not to get preachy, but life is so difficult and so much is going on; your activity of choice is coordinated attacks on some dude from Florida? Really?

That's a big part of why I said "fuck it" and committed to being known as a fan of his tbh. Things are shit. He makes me happy. Not even in a slash parasocial way, I don't know him, but like a T.V. show or a neighbor's cat. I'd rather have a good time, y'know. Why actively to make yourself feel worse?

I digress. Point is, I agree with you. I'm not saying we don't devolve into a hivemind sometimes, but the extremes that exist on Twitter and are considered fine and dandy are wild. I hope they find a productive place to channel their energy and passions, or at least take some time to relax, because while I know what it's like to find satisfaction in either behavior - idolization and demonization both have a similar rush - neither is heathy.

[fromtheplanethexagon]

the robot problem: a critical look at tobecky, 5 years late

hello wordgirl fandom i am back :) and i have a lot of thoughts that i never got around to expressing before i moved on from the show. so be aware that everything i'm saying is based on my experiences during the 2012-2016 era of the fandom & state of tumblr in general, and i am not familiar with more recent fan content.

it's been over five years since the show ended, and @ifbrd​ reminded me (along with some great analysis) that while tobecky was super popular since before the show technically started (thanks to the play date shorts), it's pretty unhealthy in a lot of ways that tend to be excused or flat out ignored in fanworks. i'd like to reflect on that a bit (a lot); specifically, how both the show and the fandom approached this enemies-to-lovers ship, and how easily this ship can slip into uncomfortable territory if we're careless about how we interpret the ship and create fan content of it.

i will admit, i'm mostly writing this as a response to past me and my old creations - though i moved on from the show as a whole years ago, i do like taking the time to reflect on old interests once in a while, and reevaluating my thoughts on them. and this ship is probably the biggest one that still lurks in the corners of my mind once in a while, so let's go.

cherish is the word: a short positive note before a much longer negative one

i wanted to start this essay off with some positivity, because i am going to be very negative after this. tobecky was, in some ways, cute. it's obvious from the very beginning that these two characters are on pretty equal ground, even if one of them isn't aware of it. and that's part of the fun - the irony of how unaware tobey is that his nemesis/crush/person that pretty much always wins against him is someone that he completely dismisses as incompetent. i want to point this out because honestly, in general i don't like enemies-to-lovers because a lot of them use a power imbalance within the dynamic, and i hate power imbalances, especially when it comes to actual life-or-death scenarios (at least, as much as cartoons can do that). in most episodes, becky is never actually forced to go along with his wishes. she's not held in a 'date' against her will, nor is she ever really outwitted by him. i bring this up because there is one huge, uncomfortable exception, which i will get to later.

another big plus to the ship is the fact that they just... get along? even when fighting? of course we get brief moments where they just hang out and talk about paintings or whatever, but i'm talking about how much they get each other, even if they don't realize it. like the word banter, for example. been there since day one. becky loves words, and while most other people in her life don't really care (ranging from 'eh, that's cool i guess' to her brother calling it annoying), tobey gives her a chance to show off and thus treats her as a worthy adversary as herself, not because of her more generic superpowers - something that we've seen in canon that she feels self-conscious about (see: her motivation in patch game). one of the less noticed examples, to me, is "it's your party and i'll cry if I want to", because it's just - okay. they both are excluded from a social event, and while it's obvious that tobey deals with it by destroying the city, it's also pretty obvious that becky also deals with her frustration by fighting in that battle. like, yes, realistically it's just objectively bad that he's destroying buildings. but they're also providing each other with a way to work through their frustrations, first by fighting and then by talking things out, and finally by hanging out together instead of dwelling on being excluded from the party.

so it makes a lot of sense to me that many tobecky fans gravitated towards writing far-in-the-future fic, usually by implying that some growth had taken place before starting to write the ship. (there are, as far as i'm aware, 2... maybe 3 exceptions, that take the time to attempt a real redemption for him, at least when i left the fandom.) because if you take away his worst moments, either by reasoning out that he was 10 years old and a mess, or that he was a cartoon character in a cartoon world where everyone's actions are over-the-top, or by just flat-out pretending that certain episodes never happened, there's some pretty solid ground to start a ship on.

go gadget go: we all do not see it, we simply close our eyes (review of canon)

when the show began, i was the same age as the characters. a lot of other people were, too - at least in my cohort of the fandom. i think it's pretty safe to say that many of us have fond memories of the show's earlier seasons, and held on to that interest as we got older, for whatever reasons. so like, not to be all 'as an OG fan...', but i remember seeing the shorts air for the first time in 2006. i have a diary entry in july of 2009 about how i, a 12yo with no concept of the idea of 'shipping', was disappointed in the new tobey episode because i wanted more tobecky interactions. (that was robo-camping, btw, lol.) and so i remember how exciting their rivalry felt, watching them as someone literally their exact same age, and then watching that again as a nostalgic 17yo, and then uh... growing up, to put it frankly, and realizing just how unhealthy most of their interactions were.

okay what i meant to say was, this section is an overview of the relationship's canon portrayal throughout the years.

first, we have early tobecky: this includes the shorts and the first few seasons. this is their classic relationship: he likes her and takes robots on rampages to get her attention, she majorly disapproves and has fun taking him down. we've all seen the show, you know what i'm talking about. his backhanded ways of trying to find out her identity often feature prominently in the episodes, which - sigh, i've mentioned this whole issue before, but it's kind of a grey area in the whole uncomfortable-factor thing, because while trying to find out her identity is VERY invasive, it's something that like... everyone in the show tries to do, even her canon crush (scoops). on the one hand, it's really not a great look, but on the other hand, this is a cartoon meant to parody a genre in which this trope is extremely common. so i just wanna say that i have Issues and Thoughts on this aspect of their relationship, but there are other things i find more important to discuss here.

second, we have late tobecky: this is seasons 7-8. this is... a very strange and huge shift from the previous dynamic, though it's not necessarily obvious. what i mean by that is that for some reason, the show writers made it so that half of tobey’s rampages have nothing to do with his crush on wordgirl, even though that used to be the sole reason for his villainy. seriously. we have the birthday episode, where he's upset because he feels left out; wg vs tobey vs the dentist, where he's mad that he has a cavity; and trustworthy tobey, where his robot goes on a rampage... after becky accidentally makes it malfunction. the two outliers are ‘guess who’s coming to thanksgiving dinner’ and ‘patch game’, but they still differ from previous seasons because 1) his destruction is isolated to a forest far away from the city, and 2) his motive is still to impress wordgirl, but his methods are relatively tame. also he completely gives up on the secret identity thing??? i may have missed some things but i think he straight up tells her 'yeah there's no way you're wordgirl, lol' and the subject is just dropped for the rest of the show.

i also want to include 'the robot problem' here, because it's one of two season 6 tobey episodes, and follows the 'doesn't destroy buildings to get her attention' pattern: in fact, he teams up with her to try and stop someone else from going on a rampage (even if his reasons are selfish, lol).

and finally. the other season 6 episode. we have go gadget go, the bane of my time spent in the fandom. because GGG is the single episode where tobey truly manages to take away her autonomy, and proceeds to abuse that power for an extended period of time, for his own amusement. it's bad. it's Very Bad. put in the context that it's a white boy doing this to an (ambiguously) brown girl, it's REALLY REALLY BAD. and the more i look back on it, tbh, the more weirded out i am that the show not only made it seem like she wasn't affected at all within the episode, it just... forgot about it (which is not unusual for shows and especially children’s shows, but WG does make some efforts to either retain continuity or create canon reasons for why things are forgotten about). it's the kind of thing that you can't excuse and honestly you can't redeem (like at this point, you gotta ask yourself why you're spending so much effort trying to redeem this guy when becky has several other possible ships that are nowhere near this unhealthy - violet, scoops, honestly even victoria if you want another hero/villain ship, my absolute fave rarepair rose, etc).

so if you want to still ship it you have to just pretend that it never happened. (i remember trying for weeks to write something exploring the aftermath of this episode, to try and make myself feel better about it, but the more i wrote the more i realized just how traumatic this event should've been, so i eventually just dropped it.) and i brought up my own timeline of experiences earlier to point out that this episode aired eight whole years after the show started. which means that when i saw it, even though i was a huge stickler for canon at the time, i'd built up my own idea of the show and characters strongly enough to go 'yeah, no, this episode sucks and i am going to pretend that it doesn't exist'. and i think a lot of other people did too, because i really saw like... no one mention it, ever, except for some rogue fanfics over on ff dot net that already liked dynamics like that.

because here's the thing, and i don't know if people nowadays are aware of it? but i'm 80% sure (cannot find a source, so the other 20% is that it was just a rumor) that the show was originally supposed to end after season 6. and even if it's a rumor, it makes a ton of sense, because we get 1) an 'ending' to tobecky, which is a bad one, 2) a permanent wordgirl identity reveal that significantly changes one of the major dynamics in the show, 3) an episode where TJ gets to work with wordgirl and get a nice potential ending for their sibling dynamic, 4) an episode where we see Two-Brains explore life without his henchmen... the list goes on, and idk how many of these are just major stretches. but the point is. if the show had ended there, that would've been a pretty solid ending for many things, including their relationship: aka, it would prove that it was only ever heading somewhere bad, and when tobey finally has his moment of triumph, he is truly evil about it. and this provides us fans who HATE go gadget go with an easy reason to dismiss it - we can say that it was an attempt to conclude things in a way that wouldn't have happened if the writers had known they'd get more time. but despite that... it is still a canon episode.

it is odd to me how dramatically the dynamic shifts after that, though, because we seriously go from 'worst case ever, tobecky is toxic, your ship is dead' to 'no actually they get along and hang out and get ice cream together and tobey isn't even pressuring her into it, she's happy to go along with it :)' like, immediately. i never knew much about the show writers, so i don't know if the writers changed in between these seasons, but i would absolutely not be surprised if they did.

the earlier episodes are definitely problematic as well (though they pale in comparison to GGG) but i think everyone who ships it is aware considering that tobey is, yknow, a villain. from memory, he destroys buildings to get her attention, lies to her about the level of danger that people are in to trick her into spending more time with him, blackmails her into reading his poetry, and he creates a robot based on her that’s supposed to be devoted to him (but of course, all of these things backfire). not great stuff of course, but like... he’s a villain, that’s the point of his character. and considering that he’s a child these are things that can be redeemed, if done thoughtfully.

anyway, to sum up this section, the show starts off with a pretty standard 'enemies with an unrequited crush' setup, takes a really dark turn for a single episode, and then for the rest of the show takes their dynamic in a direction that makes it much, much easier to ship. as long as you ignore a lot of previous content.

wordbot: where's becky's autonomy in all of this? (misogyny)

we've finally gotten to the fandom. i recognize that a lot of this is going to come across as hypocritical considering how active i used to be re: this ship, but like... i'm a very different person now. anyway. disclaimer i guess - i don't write this to accuse all tobecky shippers of being like this - i know a lot of us aren't/weren't! but boy do i have things to point out, so without further ado:

it is very hard to ship this without allowing some bit of misogyny to slip into it. very, very hard. the entire premise of the ship involves a girl falling in love with a boy that repeatedly pressures her to date him via threats to the safety of herself and people she cares about, which... it's 2020, i shouldn't have to explain why that's terrible & a terrible example to set for children (which is why i am glad they never made it canon, tbh). best-case fan content has tobey stop pressuring her and start working to redeem himself out of an actual change of heart, which leads to becky seeing him in a new light. worst-case fan content treats his incessant pressuring and sometimes outright threats as something romantic - and even worse, romantic to the point where he deserves her attention and love as a reward for not giving up or whatever. i did see this pretty frequently for a while, especially in the earlier 2010s (didn't read much, Not My Thing At All), but i don't feel like going into detail here because of how obviously problematic it is. one medium (but still bad) case is where the fan content makes him start his redemption, but treats her liking him back as a reward for not knocking buildings over anymore. another not great case is where she tries to fix him with her love, which is a very common and very dangerous romantic trope. both are just... so incredibly unfair to her.

in content where she tries to 'fix him'... yeah i feel like it's really obvious how misogynistic that is. girls and women should not feel responsible for the evil actions of men, plain and simple. idk what else to say here i just really hate that trope and hated it back then and it just sucks! so can we not do that anymore, thanks.

in content that treats her like a reward for good behavior, there really isn't much of an explanation for what she sees in him. if she just goes 'oh wow, you're good now, i am going to fall in love with you for it' the whole thing falls flat because it makes NO sense whatsoever. we get to hear so much about tobey and his feelings and why he likes her and how he feels about it, but where is that energy for becky? why does she choose to trust him, to spend time around him, what does she enjoy about his presence? where is her getting over scoops in the process of falling for tobey? where is her telling her friends about this, confiding in them, asking them for advice? where is her choice in the matter?

win a day with wordgirl: do you guys even like becky or do you just like the idea of her (misogyny... 2!)

it was pretty standard for all fandoms the early-mid 2010s, but that's still not a good excuse for why so many tobecky fanfictions centered specifically around tobey's feelings while refusing to give becky the same level of empathy and nuance. it is true that to ship them comfortably you have to redeem him to some degree, which means spending time figuring him out and trying to find ways to pull him to the light without feeling super OOC. but ships take two people??? and there was so much potential for fanfics to explore becky's complex feelings on the matter - because she is! complex! she's heroic and kind but she's petty and has a competitive streak, she easily befriends villains but also doesn't trust them and doesn't believe they can ever really change, she's the savior of an entire planet but has feelings of inadequacy as her civilian identity and struggles with feeling like she can be successful without superpowers, she's great at the straightforward meanings and uses of words and loves reading but struggles to write passages that aren't dry as hell, it can be easily headcannoned that she's neurodivergent (special interests, issues with fitting in with her peers, taking things very literally, etc)... seriously there is SO MUCH to explore about her character, and a lot of it comes into play when you add tobey into the mix (literally ALL of the things i mentioned are explored at some point using tobey as a parallel or foil), but i rarely saw fanfiction that explored her thoughts on things further than 'he's evil but... maybe good?' or 'he's evil but... i kind of like him anyway?'.

if you want her to fall for him while being a villain, explore it!! why does she go against her morals? does she lie to herself about it to feel better? does she feel like she has to 'fix him' as part of her superhero duties to the city, and if so, how does that affect her as she tries and fails to help him? does she fall for him when she believes that he's turning good, only to feel betrayed when he starts acting worse because he feels like he can get away with it? it's such a shame that fanworks spend so little time even considering these questions, and it is absolutely a product of how deeply misogyny is/was baked into how we approach media (especially back then).

tobey goes good: but wait, i thought this show was progressive (a conclusion, i guess)

ifbrd wrote a great meta recently about how the show is a bit misogynist, despite being progressive in several ways. honestly i don't have much to add, but i'd really recommend reading through this; it makes a lot of great observations about the ways that male and female characters are presented differently through the show

i have little to add, so i'd just like to conclude with a reflection on the ship from my current viewpoint. i do think part of the reason so many of us latched onto the ship, despite how obviously problematic it was, is that the show treats a lot of things that would be serious in real life as normal or even comedic - which is fine lol, i'm not going to pretend that it's not a show for little kids, so they have to keep the tone light.

but if we, as teens/adults, decide to engage with this content in a more realistic manner, we have to be prepared to confront how messed up so many of the things going on really are. and if you still want to ship it, there's nothing inherently wrong with that! there's a lot of interesting things to explore in this ship, no matter what stage of enemies-to-friends-to-lovers you write them at, and it can be really helpful to have a space where you can explore a dynamic such as this in fiction. (speaking from experience here tbh, writing some fic for them helped me deal with complicated feelings about some ex-longtime friends.)

so to write this ship at all means that there are canon issues that you need to deal with if you want to have them end up in a healthy relationship in any manner that makes sense (unless you create an AU where none of that is applicable, which, power to you then). and i’m not saying ‘write them with a healthy endgame or you’re Bad’, not at all lol. but at least please, please take a step back once in a while to examine the dynamic that you’re writing, and please be careful about whether you mean to be romanticizing whatever behaviors you end up portraying as good.