#taken @ 4.37am

[thedepressedpelican]

"O my Luve is like a red, red rose

   That’s newly sprung in June;

O my Luve is like the melody

   That’s sweetly played in tune."

Robert Burns

[19burstraat]

listen this is so random but you posted a kanej edit like a year and a half ago AT LEAST on tiktok and it was on twin skeletons (hotel in nyc) by fall out boy and it remains to this day one of the three fob songs i listen to specifically bc of that edit and you captioned it with smth like "crows and saints and sins and .. this is the kanej song" or smth like that but yea fav kanej edit ever!! and today i woke up at 4.37am in the morning because it was playing in my head WORD FOR WORD AND BEAT FOR BEAT and then it ended and i woke up and then i couldnt go back to sleep so i did my math homework and i straight up started writing a pre-canon kanej fic simply bc that song wld not stop playing in my head. still love it tho. idk if ill finish the fic but i feel like you shld know the impact that old edit still has on me (and i haven't had tiktok for like nearly a year so the fact that i still remember it is astonishing ngl)

well that's good to know LMAOOO though sorry for the lost sleep... I think it sadly got taken out in the great tiktok-UMG muting battle but I pondered remaking it. I think I made it in my first year of uni so it might have been longer ago than that now 😭😭 also, I made the edit because I had a post canon kanej fic called twin skeletons, so its good to know it's circled back around completely jfjrjd

[twentythreemillionstories]

Thursday 5th August 2021, Roubaix, 4.37am.

#117,210 — The penal population has become so dangerous and uncontrollable that extreme measures must be taken. While on the job, the younger brother steals a valuable parcel. However, as the son grows up, it appears that he will be a huge disappointment to them.

[davidalatorreblog]

Ken Henry says it could take 10 years to change NAB's culture – as it happened

National Australia Bank chairman follows CEO Andrew Thorburn in giving evidence to the banking royal commission. This blog is now closed • Analysis: The biggest banking scandal is that everyone knew – but still did nothing

6.01am GMT

Ken Henry, NAB chairman and former Treasury secretary, says culture is one of the hardest things to change about an organisation like a bank. He predicts it could take a decade to overhaul NAB’s culture.

Henry says it’s extremely hard to measure customer outcomes. The best measurement he knows of is customer complaints.

5.23am GMT

Henry’s thoughtful but academic and ponderous way of answering questions is starting to wear Orr down.

She asks Commissioner Hayne if this is an appropriate time to stop.

5.18am GMT

Henry says it’s incredibly hard to measure customer outcomes, rather than customer experience.

Orr: “How do you measure customer outcomes?”

5.11am GMT

Right.

Henry reckons it could take 10 years (!) to change the culture within NAB.

5.06am GMT

Henry’s answers, by the way, will help to inform Commissioner Hayne’s recommendations on the structure of Australia’s financial industry.

Will Hayne recommend a radical overhaul of the designated roles for Asic and Apra?

4.52am GMT

Orr asks Henry if he thinks there’s a role for regulators to play in ensuring that financial services entities have a culture which promotes proper values.

Henry wholeheartedly agrees. “Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Yes.”

4.47am GMT

Henry is very comfortable talking about the animating ideas of capitalism.

What are incentives? How do they work? What role does risk play in an organisation’s profit-seeking?

I wish it were but I don’t think it is. It’s not something that can be legislated.

“I don’t think it’s something that can be even legislated in principles and left to regulators to either seek to enforce, or even seek to have implemented in a supervisory capacity with particular institutions.

4.40am GMT

Orr: “So you believe boards should be accountable to our community now and our future community?”

Henry: “I do, indeed.”

4.37am GMT

Orr: “I want to make sure I understand your answer to my question?

Henry: “Mmm.”

4.26am GMT

An interesting dynamic has already developed between Orr and Henry.

Orr is trying to figure out how to get Henry to answer questions in a way that will suit the commission.

4.19am GMT

Orr takes Henry to a speech he gave to the Australian shareholders association conference in May this year.

A quote from Henry’s speech:

“When historians of finance look back on this period, they will identify an unusual level of corporate complacency driven by relatively benign macro economic conditions, and a long period of impressive return on equity performance.

“They will suggest that corporate leaders fell into believing that a sector capable of generating return on equities in the mid-teens for so many years couldn’t be doing a lot wrong.”

4.16am GMT

Orr: “What about the opening of fraudulent bank accounts by Wells Fargo in the US?

Henry: “Yes, I am familiar with that.

4.15am GMT

Orr is straight into it with an interesting line of questioning.

She wants to know how Henry, who was deeply involved with Australia’s governmental response to the global financial crisis, how he feels about the behaviour of the big banks since the GFC.

4.11am GMT

Senior counsel assisting Rowena Orr QC has taken over.

4.09am GMT

That last part gets heavy going, so I’ll spare you.

Thorburn has been excused.

4.06am GMT

Hodge: “And Asic has said that it thinks you should apply the same methodology to your licensees?

Thorburn: “Yes.

4.03am GMT

Hodge: “You’ve now agreed on your remediation method for NAB Financial Planning?

Thorburn: “Yes, we have.”

3.59am GMT

Hodge is starting to nail things down.

It’s obvious why NAB didn’t want to quickly recompense customers regardless of whether they signed up with NAB pre-Fofa or post-Fofa.

3.52am GMT

Thorburn: “There was a number of people involved, Mr Hodge. It’s not just Andrew Hagger. Sharon Cook was closely involved. And they were the two who had sort of day-to-day responsibility for it. I have ultimate accountability and David Gall as chief risk officer does have some responsibility as well.

“But at the time, I just don’t think we saw it with the clarity we do now. You know, it wasn’t an agenda item on a busy board schedule. It was a matter that had been going for two years.”

3.48am GMT

Hodge: “You don’t seem to have asked yourself the question why couldn’t we three see that we were not doing the right thing?”

Thorburn: “Well, I think – I see that now.”

3.46am GMT

Hodge: “And that you’re not recognising that even if Mr Hagger had been responsible for suggesting this methodology, that at least three senior executives who are still at the bank were aware of it and attended the board risk committee meeting which considered it, and they are you and Ms Cook, who reported on it, and Mr Gall?

Thorburn: “Yes.”

3.43am GMT

Hodge also pulls up Thorburn for repeatedly trying to blame Hagger.

Hodge: “What it seems like is that somebody looking at your statement and listening to the evidence that you’ve given today might think that you are, to the maximum extent possible, passing responsibility for this to Mr Hagger, the senior executive who has been made redundant and left the bank. Is that what you are doing?”

3.42am GMT

Hodge brings up a document.

It’s a memorandum for the NAB board summarising material regulatory engagement for December 2016.

3.35am GMT

Thorburn:

I think when you look back on it, Mr Hodge, I acknowledge we got this wrong. I think we were trying to – we had the right intent, but it – you know, we were looking at it too narrowly and too technically, and once you look back on it you see it’s a very – it’s obvious – there was a lot of complexity. I think that’s the other thing.

“We were dealing with 85,000 customers. We’re back to 2009. You know, it was – it was a pre-Fofa post-Fofa world. Leaving that argument aside. It was one of the most complex things we’ve had to face into.

Well, the files would have – were complex. What we’re talking about here is financial advice on complex matters for people. It went back to 2009. We had had a number of leaders involved in the business over that time. By the time we came to really face into this, it was – a lot of those had left. We didn’t have very good systems, Commissioner.

“We couldn’t – you know, we didn’t have digitisation like we do now, we had to go back to hardcopy files and couldn’t always find them and the advisers had moved on or the NAB financial planners had moved on and we couldn’t always find the file. So it was big and messy and complex. And I’m sorry about that, because that’s not good enough on our part.”

3.31am GMT

Thorburn says it was Hagger’s advice to try to make the distinction between pre-Fofa and post-Fofa customers.

Hagger was trying to justify treating pre-Fofa customers differently on the basis that NAB could have just kept them on commission-paying arrangements.

3.25am GMT

Thorburn is talking about who in NAB had responsibility for the bank’s remediation program.

He throws Andrew Hagger, NAB’s former head of wealth, under the bus.

3.12am GMT

Just before the lunch break, Thorburn had told Hodge that in April this year, he had had a meeting with Asic’s new chairman, James Shipton.

Shipton had impressed upon Thorburn that he was deeply unhappy with NAB’s attitude towards remediation.

3.10am GMT

And we’re back.

Senior counsel assisting Michael Hodge QC is asking NAB’s Andrew Thorburn about the NAB board’s consideration of an angry letter from ASIC in April this year.

2.42am GMT

In preparation for the afternoon session, here’s some info about Fofa: the future of financial advice laws.

That acronym may be chucked around this afternoon. I posted this info in last week’s blog but it may serve our interests again.

2.34am GMT

NAB’s chief executive, Andrew Thorburn, has been doing his best impression of a good banker who understands the hurt Australians are feeling.

He knows bank scandals have been ripping through the economy in recent years, and he puts it down to drift – banks used to focus squarely on customers, but in the last three decades they have drifted towards greed and short-termism.

2.27am GMT

With that, the commission has broken for lunch.

We can expect Hodge to hammer this issue after the break so I hope Thorburn refreshes his jug of water.

2.26am GMT

Despite all of that, NAB then tried it on again.

Five months later, in a letter dated 13 April 2018 – that’s this year people, just seven months ago – NAB sent another proposal to Asic in relation to remediation.

2.15am GMT

So in other words, NAB was delaying, delaying, delaying.

Asic then sent NAB an outline of suspected offending in October 2017, so NAB got its lawyers involved.

2.07am GMT

This bit’s fascinating.

Heard of the expression “actions speak louder than words”?

1.59am GMT

Hodge moves on to how NAB has handled the remediation for customers who were charged advice service fees (ASFs) for services not provided.

Hodge: “I think you agree that it has taken too long?”

1.52am GMT

This is a strange exchange between Hodge and Thorburn, if you think about it.

We’re raking over old territory here.

1.41am GMT

Thorburn wants to make the point that these things were not done on purpose.

They were process errors.

It’s wrong. It’s absolutely wrong. I think dishonesty goes sort of to intent, is the only distinction I would draw. And I don’t think I’ve seen this case and others – some exceptions – where there was an intention to not do the right thing or maybe even a view, as you’re suggesting, an intention for it to be a problem from the start and someone to ignore it. I don’t think it was that.

“So I think it was wrong that we didn’t pick it up. And I think we got on to it reasonably quickly but it was a process error.

1.35am GMT

Hodge: “And in your statement … you offer some reasons for why you think the two events occurred?”

Thorburn: “Yes.”

1.28am GMT

Hodge: “And the other event that you’ve discussed in your statement is concerned with the discovery that there were accounts of deceased members that had been charged service fees?”

Thorburn: “That’s right.”

1.26am GMT

Hodge: “I’m going to ask you some questions about that just so you know to begin with, what I’m going to exclude is anything to do with the plan service fees, which, as you know, is now the subject of federal court proceedings which have been brought by Asic?”

Thorburn: “Yes.”

1.21am GMT

Hodge moves onto another topic.

Fees for no service.

1.09am GMT

We’re back from a short break.

And we’re onto remediation.

12.49am GMT

Hodge: “I’m interested in understanding why you think it took a royal commission to provoke that kind of critical self-examination?”

Thorburn:

That’s a good question. Well, because in my personal and professional experience, most transformation opportunities come out of pain.

“The commission, when you read the case studies, you say: ‘This is like, so upsetting and so damning, what went wrong?’ I remember one of the ones was the default interest. One [default interest rate] for one of our clients who was at the commission. I said to our team: ‘Why is it 18%?’ And there wasn’t a really good answer to that.

12.39am GMT

It’s easy to poke fun of analogies.

If you’re not feeling generous, it’s too easy to mock someone for using one.

12.25am GMT

Hodge: “I wonder whether, in your view, now with the benefit of hindsight, the move by retail banks into other areas, and particularly into wealth, has been a failure?”

Thorburn: “I think if you looked at the – I mean, if you looked at the raw evidence – [I] probably have to agree it had been. I don’t think it needed to be, but it probably has been.”

12.18am GMT

It’s actually fascinating listening to bank executives talk about remuneration.

It’s clear they spend a lot of time thinking about it.

12.06am GMT

Thorburn is asked about remuneration for bank staff.

Hodge wants to know if senior executives become harder to motivate when banks shift away from a system of remuneration that relies so heavily on bonuses.

11.48pm GMT

This is annoying listening to Thorburn’s evidence, to be honest.

He’s saying all the right things.

11.31pm GMT

Hodge wants to know what Thorburn is actually advocating for.

Hodge: “What I wonder is whether somebody listening to the points that you’re making might think that what you’re advocating for is a shift toward, or some would probably say back to, a more service-oriented and utilitarian view of banking?”

11.26pm GMT

Hodge asks Thorburn about the shift towards a sales culture.

Thorburn: “I think that started to happen. That was like a symptom of focusing on the short term. Focusing too much on growth, short-term growth that’s not really sustainable, and a sales culture was introduced, not just in our bank, in the system. And I think that created wrong outcomes as well. Unintended consequences.”

11.24pm GMT

Thorburn: “This company has been going 150 years and my role should be to make it stronger and better for the long run, not just for the next one or two years.”

11.24pm GMT

Thorburn: “If you go to my other points where I talk about becoming short-term, focus too much on the next six or 12 months, focus too much on the profit ... then I think you start to build some unsustainable foundations, you don’t invest enough, you don’t listen to customers enough.”

11.21pm GMT

Hodge is interested in a point Thorburn made in that letter that banks will build a sustainable business for all stakeholders if they get the “customer experience right”.

Hodge wants to know what “sustainable business” means.

11.11pm GMT

Senior counsel assisting the royal commission, Michael Hodge QC, is leading the questions today.

Hodges has taken Thorburn to a letter the CEO personally wrote to the royal commission, which accompanied NAB’s submission to the inquiry’s interim report.

10.58pm GMT

Good morning everyone,

Welcome back to Guardian Australia’s blog of the banking royal commission.

Continue reading... Ken Henry says it could take 10 years to change NAB's culture – as it happened published first on https://yuanex.tumblr.com