#tagging anti because yk... the other side probably will get angry

[greenaswildfire]

Guys, guys, I have a theory, certainly is a bit (a bit???) of a stretch, but we're here to have fun, so here's my "bat"shitcrazy (no pun intended haha) take on the matter. TG will laugh with me, TB probably curse me, but oh well.

Careful, for the comment is long and full of spoilers. I haven't read the books, so my comment relies mostly on what I could find on wiki and some discussion topics I found on reddit when I was unsure of an info.

A mutual shared with us a theory of hers about the possibility of Aemond and Alys being linked to the origins of House Whent, aka, Catelyn's mother House. I was curious so I watched it and let me tell you: last time I was this invested in researching something I was in my teenage years investigating all the refs in Saint Seiya.

So, I share with you the comment I made (with some more info I remembered at the last minute here) haha!

1-What do we know about Alys's ancestry: Alys is a Strong bastard, House Strong is said to exist since the Age of Heroes among other houses like Stark, Gardener, or Blackwood. Stark is known for their link to direwolves, House Gardener's patriarch was said to make land flourish, so I see high potential for special genes in House Strong as well, despite not knowing about any memorable Strong of this period.

2-The dance of the dragons: the Dance happens between 129 - 131 AC. Aemond dies in 130, but we do not know what happens to Alys after she claims, in 132, that the child she presents to the new government is Aemond's son. After all, Winter Fever strikes Westeros in that same year brought by, apparently, foreigners of Ib. We don't know what happened to them, but considering the stories about "the witch queen of Harrenhal" I don't doubt they've survived, magic people seem to be more difficult to get sick I think. Melisandre is there to prove it after all, not even cold or poison destroy this woman! haha

3-Info about House Whent: first I traced back its origin to see what I could find. House Whent of Harrenhal was born from a hedge knight in 233 AC who was given the castle by Maekar I, as prize for his help. The castle at that time belonged to House Lothston of Harrenhal. House Lothston exists as 'family name' since the time of Maegor I with Guy Lothston, but the title of the House as Lords of Harrenhal was given after the Dance, in 151, when Master-of-Arms Ser Lucas Lothston was ordered to marry Aegon IV's first mistress, Falena Stokeworth to remove her from Court. Aegon IV has consistently visited Harrenhal to see his mistresses: Falena and her daughter Jeyne Lothston (some people even think she's another bastard of Aegon passed off as Lothston). These meetings might have resulted in many bastards, with a new injection of special genes (and mad genes as well caused by !ncest, in Jeyne's case) but we have no info about children from any of these women after they are expelled from the Court because of pox acquired from Aegon IV.

4-More info about Lothston: In terms of Lothstons's future generations, we have Manfred Lothston who was part of the first Blackfyre rebellion and said to have betrayed Daemon Blackfyre. Then, Mad Danelle Lothston who answered Bloodraven's call to smash the second Blackfyre rebelion. However, the rumors of Mad Danelle making use of dark arts were spreading like wildfire and disturbing the peace in Westeros, which made King Maekar I take action and cause her downfall in 233 AC, in this fight, the Whent hedge knight rebels against Lothston and he's named the new Lord of Harrenhal. Important to note that on wiki they don't give the exact year of House Whent's founding year, because Martin apparently didn't tell it. Curious, very curious.

5-Whent and Lothston sigils: It's also curious, though, that House Whent's kept some elements of Lothston sigil: House Lothston was a huge bat upon a field of silver and gold. House Whent is 7 bats upon a golden field. If they're different houses, why the similarities? House Karstark for example, is a branch of House Stark and their sigil is different. The extinct House Greystark though, was the same sigil of House Stark, the colors being the only difference. What I'm trying to say is that House Whent could have picked something totally different from the previous House because they were nothing to each other, right? But they kept some things. Why? I imagine both houses were connected either by friendship or blood. But thinking better now, I believe blood is the most plausible answer, we all know that power or lands corrupt people and in Westeros this kind of thing is most likely to happen. Let's remember that the only Lothston alive was a single woman who was known for fiercely riding into battle with a black armor and we are not told about Danelle interested in marriage or something, she wasn't ladylike apparently, but was considered a vampire and we know that rumors and gossip are common weapon to try to sabotage women of power who were single. The fact that Maekar I named Whent the new lord of the place instead of, idk, any other house of the riverlands makes me think that this happens precisely because as secondary branch of the Lothston, the Whent hedge knight was chosen and rewarded for being loyal to the realm instead of joining forces with Lothston.

6-So, to wrap things up: We know that House Lothston already existed before Aemond, but considering we have zero info about Jeyne Lothston's or even Falena's descendants, now I imagine it's possible that Alys bastard child (or her grandchild, or her great-grandchild or whatever) was paired up with some unknown descendant of Jeyne Lothston or Falena Lothston, originating the Whents as a branch of Lothston.

If Alysmond descendant marries a Falena's descendant, nothing unusual here. But if Alysmond descendant marries a Jeyne's descendant, it would essentialy means the union between the greens and the blacks (if the rumors of Jeyne being actually another Aegon IV's daughter are to be trusted).

Do I believe it? Well... It's not impossible, imho. We all know how Martin loves to create intricate plots and family trees, it matches his gardener style of writing. The more complicated, the more likely is for Martin to come up with something like this, even more considering that we were never given a definitive founding year for House Whent. Like vampires, you are never sure how old is House Whent.

The info has a vital role, it's so important that Martin opted to let the info vague so he could have space to work better on the idea, he's a gardener yeah, but not everything he hints it's a seed, there's also foreshadowing and I guess that's the case with the link Whent-Lothston and alysmond. Let's remember that Cat, a POV character, was half Whent, so it has to be something important, if not for her character, for others like Littlefinger and Sansa.

And now talking about the TV show: who are the ones who end up monarchs in the end? Cat's descendants, Bran and Sansa! lol I know D&D ruined the show in many aspects, but I admit I laugh so much thinking about it now, the guys simplified everything in the most trashy way possible and even so, we were able to come up with a theory to fix their mess haha That's why Sansa didn't like Daenerys: Aemond genes were warning her about Rhaenyra's descendant lmao

If we think about it now:

-Rhaenyra's descendant does not survive;

-2 alysmond descendants become monarchs;

-1 alysmond descendant robbed Rhaenyra's descendants of their azor ahai role thanks to D&D; Woah thanks a lot Hess and Condal, you've tried to tone down Rhaenyra's ambition, by creating this Aegon prophecy thing, but in the end it meant nothing.

-the only dragon alive (that despite Condall and Hess fanservice we all know it was a dreamfyre egg) is actually a green dragon;

-and the last targaryen of Rhaenyra's bloodline is a Snow that will never rise against his siblings.

Woah... we have a lot to learn from the patient old men of Oldtown in terms of "fight a war without saying you're fighting a war".

Anyway, thanks Jessie Bear for the theory that sparked my interest for this madness, I went full obsessed mode this afternoon because of that and it was so much fun! XD