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thecostumeplot · 3 years ago

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Episode 22: Captain Marvel & Scott Pilgrim vs. The World

Both

Welcome to The Costume Plot.

Jojo

I'm Jojo Siu.

Sarah

And I’m Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers. Accompanying slideshows for each movie are linked in the episode description.

Jojo

We hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in The Costume Plot. [music]

Jojo

Hello, and welcome back to The Costume Plot.

Sarah

Hi, how's it going?

Jojo

Good, good. We did have a couple announcements to make at the top of this episode. And a lot of it has to do with just the reviews that we've been getting. And some of the following that we've been getting. We're so encouraged to see continual followers adding us on Instagram.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And the one thing we did want to also apologize for is being a little behind on YouTube. It's been kind of a crazy month.

Sarah

For both of us. Yes. [laughs]

Jojo

For both of us! Yes. So it's been a little insane. But thank you for staying with us. And thank you for continuing to listen and comment and leave us reviews. We did want to address the review that we did get this past week. And I wanted to apologize for using the term "whitewashing" last week on our episode about "The Impossible." I know that was probably an inappropriate term. And I wanted to just clarify that we are very aware that Eastern Europeans do...

Sarah

Spanish people, not Eastern Europeans.

Jojo

Sorry, Spanish people. [laughs] I'm tired.

Sarah

Yeah. [laughs] We know Spain is predominantly Caucasian. We do know that. We just want to clarify.

Jojo

Yes. Yes, I think one of the things that did distract me a little bit was... seeing the original family with such an olive tone and darker hair was something that I thought would be a little more reflected in the casting for the movie.

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

And also the fact that their their names were very Anglicized. And I think that some of those choices may have been... yes, I guess for... well, we were told it was done for the purpose of being able to mainstream it a little bit more.

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

And I think that was very successful. But again, it's a question that continues to be on our minds. And I'm really glad that we actually got some responses from one of the costume designers herself.

Sarah

Yeah, Sparka Lee.

Jojo

We're actually eventually hoping to get her as an interviewee on our podcast.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So hopefully, she can address some of those questions that we had and maybe talk a little bit more about the process, and how that kind of transitioned a little bit.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So yeah, again, this is a dialogue, we love to have dialogue with our listeners. So thank you guys for being so open with us.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And we just, we appreciate the reviews, we're always happy to talk. We do want and encourage more of you guys to leave comments on our Instagram, so that we can have that dialogue with you guys. Like I said, Sparka actually just messaged both of us directly on Instagram.

Sarah

Yeah, she commented.

Jojo

And she told us, yeah, she told us a lot about it. And again, it's a great perspective to be able to hear from the designers that are involved with these projects, because we don't always get to hear that. And I think that's something... you always have a new perspective, or a new insight, into different things that we maybe don't understand just 'cuz we're not in that situation. So...

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So anyways, I wanted to publicly apologize. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

For using that term last week. And hopefully that addresses some of the problems that were coming up in our review.

Sarah

I wanted to stress... because this review we got was three stars. So it wasn't like, one star. But I was a little frustrated because we couldn't reply to that review, except to record something as a response. So that's why we want to encourage people to email us, or DM us, or comment on our episode posts on our Instagram. Because if you have notes about one specific episode, we want to hear it, and we want to talk to you about it. And we were... in that review, they did say that we don't do enough research. And Jojo and I just want to emphasize that this podcast is a hobby for us. We both have jobs that keep us pretty busy. And we do as much research as we have time to do. And this podcast was always going to be a conversation, and it's always just for fun with us. And if you want really, really well researched costume content, it's out there on the internet. I recommend Bernadette Banner and Abby Cox. They're both YouTubers who do super thoroughly researched costume videos. Yeah, so our show is just kind of like a fun dialogue between us. And you know, there are some days where I'm like, "I want to keep reading about this, but I literally don't have time!" So you know, we come with what we're prepared with and... yeah, that's... that's it. [laughs] In conclusion, we appreciate the feedback but we also-- we want it to be a conversation between us and the listeners. And if it's just left in a review, we feel like it's not a conversation. We feel like it's just criticism, and we take criticism, but we want to be able to respond.

Jojo

Mmhmm. It's all about the dialogue.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

This is a podcast that's a conversation, after all.

Sarah

Exactly. Conversational. That's what we've always said.

Jojo

Yes, very much so. And again, you know, it brings in a new perspective, right?

Sarah

Sure, yeah.

Jojo

So yes, totally, I will totally own up to saying "whitewashing," and that was not appropriate. But again, you know, let's talk about it. Let's have a dialogue about it. And I think that's something that's fun for us. But also, we want to be able to have that conversation with our listeners as well.

Sarah

Yeah, because we are professionals in the industry. But that doesn't mean that we know everything.

Jojo

Very true.

Sarah

I learn a lot doing this show. So it's always going to be a learning experience, regardless.

Jojo

Mmhmm. And we're always learning and still learning. And hopefully that continues.

Sarah

Totally!

Jojo

So anyways, back to our theme today. I'm really excited, actually, about our theme. We sort of chose this a little last minute. But...

Sarah

Yeah. [laughs]

Jojo

Like I said, it's been a very busy month.

Sarah

We've been both just doing... doing stuff. [laughs]

Jojo

Yes, it's been a good-- it's been a very productive month, but very, very busy. So I'm going to start us off, and our theme this week is... I think we ended up with "superhero geek movies"?

Sarah

I don't even know what movie you're doing!

Jojo

I don't know if that was officially our theme. [both laugh] I'm going to be covering "Captain Marvel". So I'm super excited.

Sarah

Oooh! So, comic books... based on a comic book.

Jojo

Yes, based on a comic book.

Sarah

Both of ours, yeah.

Jojo

That's our very unofficial/official theme this week. [both laugh] But yeah, so I'm really excited. I'm covering "Captain Marvel".

Sarah

I'm excited.

Jojo

It was premiered in 2019. And it was actually a codirector project. So it was directed by Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck, who actually started dating while they were in college, and were doing some short films together. And then, since then have pretty much done all of their projects together as codirectors.

Sarah

Wow!

Jojo

Which is pretty great. So a lot of their credits are the same, but include "Mississippi Grind," "Half Nelson," "The Affair," many of these I'm not as familiar with, but I recognized a lot of the covers. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So that was kind of interesting. "Sugar" is another one. "It's Kind of a Funny Story," which I think is a little bit bigger. But yes, I just thought that was really interesting. You know, it is so fascinating how our industry, because we're so tight knit and we're spending so much time together, it does often result in relationships. And sometimes that relationship turns into collaborations that are very successful. So... good for them.

Sarah

Totally, I think that a lot of people... like, if you find someone who you know... like, you produce your best work with them, there's no reason not to stick together and keep doing that.

Jojo

Absolutely. It's the same with your team too, you know, your design team. So anyways, that was the director-- codirectors. The costume designer for this was Sanja Milkovic Hays. I think that's how you say her name. She goes by Sanja Hays on the movie. And she's done a lot of huge things. So she did "The Mummy," the most recent "Tomb of the Dragon Emperor". She did "Independence Day."

Sarah

Whoa.

Jojo

She did "Stargate," she did all of the "Fast and Furious" franchise.

Sarah

Oh dang!

Jojo

I know, it's crazy. She did "Maze Runner," she did the new "Star Trek Beyond". So she's got some really big credits under her belt, which was very exciting for this.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And I also wanted to mention a couple just small facts about how she kind of came into this process, because as you-- well, maybe most of you don't know. But especially with Marvel comic--just the Avengers' comic world--and just comics in general, creating the superhero costumes has become very much a collaboration between concept artist and costume designer.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So it is no longer just the costume designer that's creating these, it often comes from a conceptual artist's drawing or illustration first, and then they kind of... the costume designer is able to sort of tweak and kind of adjust things on an actual body.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

So we're thinking about the kind of the 3D, and the conceptual artist is looking at the 2D initially.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So it talks a little bit about how she worked with Marvel's digital visual development director, Andy Park, who... I was just really excited that he was Asian, but--[both laugh] that was just me--to create Marvel's costumes with a very purposeful intent. And one of the things I loved about this movie is that... and again, I don't know a lot about Captain Marvel. I was asking my husband about this because he's, of course, the comic geek. But Captain Marvel is pretty much the most powerful superhero, and she basically can't die, or can't get destroyed or whatever.

Sarah

Mmhmm. Yep.

Jojo

But I just thought it was so interesting that when they put her in this... I mean, they did the movie last, because Matt literally reminded me that if they had done her movie first, they wouldn't have needed any of the Avengers. They would have just been useless. [both laugh] I was like, "Oh, that's a good point." But I just thought it was interesting that she mentioned she was very purposeful in her intent not to sexualize or over-fetishize the Captain Marvel costume. Because a lot of the original illustrations in the comics are her in a very swimsuit, or bathing suit, type of silhouette.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jojo

So they worked really hard to try and get away from that. And I also found this really interesting blog, or I guess it's like a magazine. I'm not really sure what... the website's called Decider. But the writer Meghan O'Keefe stated, "Carol Danvers's superhero costume is maybe the first major lady's costume that feels designed for a woman literally on the go. By that I mean, it's not for the male gaze but for a heroine who needs to be prepared for a long chase, followed by high impact rolls and hanging off a lead without any kind of grip assist."

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And it's... it's so true. I think one of the things she mentioned was that she was very much in kind of athletic gymwear, and even the grip of her gloves just shows a lot. And all the pockets, also, was a functional thing.

Sarah

Pockets, all we need is pockets.

Jojo

So everything on her costume is very functional, very comfortable, very wearable and physical. So, kind of meant to withstand all the physical durability that she needs.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

This movie is also set in the 90s. So Captain Marvel is kind of way before all the other Avengers really kind of get on board, and the Avengers team is even assembled. So it's interesting also seeing Nick Fury, who... if you don't know the Marvel world, he's kind of the one that starts the Avengers Initiative. And it kind of shows his origin story, in addition to showing how Captain Marvel came to be.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So I will start with our first look. And I kind of went in order with this movie. I just felt like that was the easiest. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty... Marvel movies are an undertaking, that's...

Jojo

It really, really is.

Sarah

There's just a lot of clothes.

Jojo

It's interesting, because after I was watching this, it kind of reminded me that with the superheroes, they're... once you get them fitted and make them look awesome, their costume doesn't really change too much.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

But then you have all the background characters and all the other alien creatures that you have to costume. So it really is like an entire city, you know, thousands of people that you have to dress, not just the leads. So anyways, I wanted to start with Carol Danvers, played by our Brie Larson.

Sarah

Love her.

Jojo

And then Jude Law, who's who's kind of her trainer at the very beginning. And the first thing they have is their fight scene. She can't sleep. So she goes and fights with him. But I wanted to kind of just look at how simplistic, but also how detailed, these costumes are. Because it's essentially just kind of a crossbody. There's a little bit of an Asian inspiration in it, almost like a kimono wrap kind of garment.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah.

Jojo

Or even like... I think of the Taekwondo garments or the jujitsu garments, where they often are tied around the middle with a cross in the front.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jojo

And I liked that they kind of made a nod to that. I don't know if that was intentional or not. But there's certainly a lot of that silhouette based there.

Sarah

I feel like probably. Yeah, 'cuz they're doing basically alien martial arts. So I feel like that's probably a little nod.

Jojo

Yeah, yeah. And you can't really see their pants. But I did love that the top really incorporates the gym, kind of athletic wear that sort of wicks off sweat.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

And it still has that feeling of their athletic wear, so something that they would wear to their training.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So anyways, I just thought that was really interesting. Not too much to add about that. I wanted to focus on the original... you know, and obviously, Captain Marvel goes into American colors later, but she starts off in the green and the black and a little bit of the silver. And interestingly enough, I had no idea there was actually significance to this. I was just like, "Oh, it's a pretty color on her and on the rest of the team." But apparently, the original Captain Mar-Vell, so the original comic books, was actually a male character. And he was dressed in an outfit very similar to this that was in silver and green.

Sarah

Oh!

Jojo

And so it's kind of interesting that they sort of gender-bent the actual Mar-Vell character in this in this movie, sorry, spoiler alert. And she is actually in the silver and green that's very similar to the original comic book.

Sarah

Cool.

Jojo

So I just thought that was really cool. And it was sort of a nice little nod to that, and obviously they were very intentional even about choosing that color. I also just love that, for some reason, her and the Black character... well, there are other Black characters, but it's interesting that three of them are blue, and then just the two of them are left with their natural skin tone. And I was just... again, it was a question, I had no idea why that happened. Or if there was an intention behind choosing specific actors to paint in blue?

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

And leaving, obviously, she has to be left as human. But I was just curious about that choice. So again, a question maybe for the costume designer or for the concept artist.

Sarah

Yeah, or if anybody knows... I mean, I don't want to get legions of Marvel fans in our comments, who are like "You got all this wrong!"

Jojo

[laughs] I know, we're probably going to get that. I apologize, Marvel fans.

Sarah

We'll see if they can find us.

Jojo

There's a lot of movies. [both laugh] But I did love that there was so much diverse representation here.

Sarah

Oh, yes. Yeah.

Jojo

You know, your actors, they definitely chose a diverse group of actors, which I was really excited about that.

Yeah.

Do I have anything else I wanted to indicate on this? Oh, I did write that they also wanted her to look like a serious superhero/warrior, but yet keep her looking feminine and like a woman.

Sarah

Mmm.

Jojo

So I think they did that really well. And the fact that they kind of kept the uniform kind of straight across male and female. I thought that was really...

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

...I thought that was good for them to be able to say... neither one is more sexualized than the other, I guess. Like, all their uniforms are the same. And they still all look really cool as flightsuits.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So I just thought that was really successful. So good job.

Sarah

I agree.

Jojo

Good job, Marvel team. Just a couple other shots of her. This is from the front. And that way, you can kind of see the full body and the boots that she has on too. Like, I mean, this is crazy. It almost looks like it goes over her boots, but I can't tell exactly.

Sarah

I feel like yes? Yeah?

Jojo

Yeah, I don't know if it's something strapped underneath.

Sarah

I imagine there are many different versions, right? So like...

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

...she probably wears a certain kind for filming fight scenes.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And a certain kind if she's just kind of standing there. Like, I am so interested, maybe Kelly has some insight into that.

Jojo

Oh, yeah, possibly.

Sarah

Because she's worked on some Antman and stuff.

Jojo

Yeah. Well, and the other thing that Sanja mentioned as well, was that when they were fitting her... because after they went from the concept art to the actual fittings, she actually had to keep adjusting regularly. Because at this time, Brie was also physically training for this role.

Sarah

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Jojo

And so she-- her body was just constantly changing, because she was gaining muscle in all these new places. And so like, them having to adjust the costume to that each time was yet another part of the project of trying to get her fitted and make her look good. So...

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

...so yeah, it is kind of a constant, ongoing thing. And it's so interesting with film. And again, we have a little less experience directly with film. But it is sort of one of those things where just having been in it, it's so fast. It's such a quick turnaround, you have literally less than zero time to do everything. So it's just amazing that this this was created with constant changing, you know, on the go.

Sarah

Yeah, I mean, because Marvel movies are planned years in advance. But then like, you can't make a costume years in advance, because like you said, the body changes and then the design can be changing up until... you know. I dunno.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So it's... it is so impressive that it all kind of just comes together.

Jojo

Yes, definitely. Okay, and then I also wanted to add in the the helmet that they created. So I had a funny... let's see if I can find it. I put it down here somewhere. So there was a really funny bet that was made over this helmet. And interestingly enough, this was a whole kind of redesign of Captain Marvel's character, because she was so pictured in all these swimming suits. It was this funny thing between... the writer DeConnick made a bet with an illustrator, Jamie McKelvie, that Marvel would pay for this redesign if he did a redesign of the suit, basically. And she had specifically... or sorry, DeConnick had specifically asked and requested Jamie, because I guess he's a very well known illustrator, who has been really big as a comic book artist, who happens to also really pay attention to fashion and what's in trend, and has really changed the face of like what it means for comic book heroes to transition. And what that means in costumes as well. So costume design, specifically so when she requested him it was with this knowledge knowing that he is one of the best one of the top. And of course, when he did the redesign, Marvel was in love with it. So she made this bet in the beginning basically saying like, if Marvel doesn't pay for this redesign, then I will pay you myself, because I really want you to redesign this and of course, You know, Marvel loved it. So they went with this redesign. And it's interesting because he created this helmet basically to hold up her hair. So it's actually her hair that's the mohawk and not just a random fringe that appears on the top. So again, just adding to that whole kind of not sexualized, but very almost androgynous, kind of look. Yeah, that is still very functional for this. So I just really love that. So I wanted to make sure we show show a shot of that as well. Okay, moving on. So my next one is actually a shot of Dr. Wendy Lawson, who, of course, is revealed as our Marvell so the original mentor of Captain Marvel in the comics. And again, they gender bent, it used to be a man in the original comics, but in this one, they they portrayed Captain Marvel as a as a female. And I really love that I think she did. She wasn't in the movie for very, very much cheap, you know, constant flashbacks to her. I just love that there's a lot of references to the flight suit. And even though it is the 90s there's such a 40s kind of bend to it. And just kind of that world war, sort of iconic silhouette, with the leather kind of aviator jackets and the flight suits, especially for her like just this very specific like logo that they included on there too was just was kind of a nice sort of detail that I think they included on the the leather jacket that Captain Marvel also sports later on. And of course, it's just her name tag, but I just thought it was kind of a cool shot of her and I couldn't find very many pictures of this. So this is the one we've got is very tiny. So then moving on to some of the more 90s were so obviously once Captain Marvel lands on Earth, she has to basically go back into plainclothes men clothing. So she ends up stealing an outfit off of a mannequin and stealing this guy's bike or motorcycle. And so she kind of dresses in this sort of distress. And again, you know, me and me and distressed garments, I just really love how, like loved this leather jacket. This jacket is so good. It's so good. Just everything about it even the way the lapels are like just kind of nicely scratched up. And then the sleeves and just the way that she's worn it. It's so funny, because this is literally grabbed off of a mannequin, but I was like, it looks like it's been loved for like 40 years.

Sarah

She grabs the jacket too?

Jojo

I think so, I don't think she had it before.

Sarah

I can't remember.

Jojo

Well, maybe she stole it from a motorcycle guy.

Sarah

I've only seen it once.

Jojo

It's been a while. But...

Sarah

Yeah, cuz I feel like the outfit, the jeans and the T shirt, came from the mannequin.

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

But then the jacket was from somewhere else? I need to re-watch this movie, I haven't seen it since it came out.

Jojo

Yeah. I was trying to rewatch and take notes at the same time. So I might've missed that.

Sarah

That's tough, yeah. [laughs]

Jojo

But that would make a lot more sense, that this is kind of more aged in that way. I do also love that she doesn't start with the baseball cap. But once she's reunited with Fury, she kind of ends up having this Agents of SHIELD cap, which I think is also a nice little nod. I think one thing that Marvel does a lot, and just Disney in general, is all the different worlds kind of collide at some point. And there's a lot of different Easter eggs that are always hidden in the movies.

Sarah

Well, does it count as an Easter egg? Because doesn't he worked for SHIELD?

Jojo

He does. But this is so in the beginning that when you're seeing this, it's so interesting that they already have all the insignia, and everything's set up and ready to go.

Sarah

Yeah, I mean, I think that... yeah, the logo just probably didn't change.

Jojo

Yeah, so I just thought that was a cute little, you know, like he gave her a baseball cap to blend in.

Sarah

I do like that. Yeah, "look like you belong here." [laughs]

Jojo

Right, exactly. And so... and then she's got the Nine Inch Nails tee, and just kind of the ripped jeans. Very, very 90s. The designer talks a lot about how they decided to go more grunge with the 90s. Just because, you know, we've talked about the 90s a lot in a lot of our movies. But this was one particular aspect of the 90s that she really kind of gravitated towards for Brie's character. Which I think really fits very well, with a lot of the T-shirts... even the small, tiny flashbacks, which I didn't bring in here because it's too many photos. A lot of that stuff was references to 80s rock bands and things like that, that she would have listened to. Let's see, what did I put? Oh, she said she wanted to keep it so that there's an almost tomboyish image, an attitude that she has. And rather than going for the 80s kind of neon spandex or something silly, she wanted to go with grunge. So I thought that was really successful.

Sarah

Totally.

Jojo

And then they also talked a little bit about the fact that they went through multiple logos of rock bands and decided that Nine Inch Nails was subtle enough that it didn't distract from looking at Brie's face while you're trying to hear her talk. So I thought that was also... I mean, again, it's something that designers are always thinking about. It's not just about how cool the image is. It's about what's going to distract the audience from paying attention to the story.

Sarah

Yeah, because probably not everybody recognizes that as a Nine Inch Nails logo.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Yeah, and I've actually... at first, I couldn't see what it was initially. And then finally she took her leather jacket off. And I was like, "Oh, yeah." But yes, you don't really-- it's kind of a nondescript design, or very abstract at first. So I thought that was really successful and very subtle. So, good job.

Sarah

I did that outfit for Comic Con in 2019.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And I didn't want to wear a wig because I hate wearing wigs. But...

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

...my hair is the exact right length.

Jojo

Yeah!

Sarah

So I was like, "my hair is tie dye. So I'm gonna make a tie dye version of this outfit." So I made like a colorful version of it.

Jojo

Ooooh!

Sarah

And like, two people got it. And I was like, "I'm at Comic Con!" You would think that people-- and like, the movie had JUST come out recently.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

You would think that people would recognize this as being Captain Marvel. Nobody got it. [laughs]

Jojo

Right, right. Maybe because they were just so distracted by the tie dye. I don't know.

Sarah

Maybe.

Jojo

That's sad, though.

Sarah

I know.

Jojo

You were just trying to be recognized, Sarah.

Sarah

I looked cute.

Jojo

[laughs] I'm sure you did.

Sarah

Thanks. [laughs]

Jojo

Okay. I'm not going to talk too much about Fury in this, just because he's pretty straightforward. And again, I ran out of space for pictures. So.

Sarah

Yeah, we gotta... just we gotta edit ourselves.

Jojo

We do. I'll talk about him at the end. Okay, so the other big favorite of mine that I really loved in this movie was Maria Rambeau. So she's Marvel's best friend, before she becomes Marvel. And they were basically air pilots together, before she crashed and was taken over. But I love this outfit, because again, it's so simple, but it's such a nod to that flight suit of the of the Air Force pilots. And that's a big thing about this both of them were air pilots. And they talked a lot about how they were women in this role where it was mostly a man's world. And they were doing all kinds of stunts and things like that, because that's all they could contribute to the war. So I just thought that was really interesting that they were referencing a lot of those. Again, even though we're in the 90s. You know, it's sort of one of those things where there's so much going on, and you know, they're still trying to empower women in this way. While making a nod to essentially a kind of... almost a man's uniform, it's a very auto mechanic kind of look. So...

Sarah

I mean, for a long time, in order to be a woman in a traditionally male field, you had to basically blend in and pretend to be a man. That's almost the idea of power dressing from the 80s.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

It's that women started wearing very menswear inspired suits, because they were going into the workforce more than ever. So it's like, you didn't get respect unless you dress like you were man, almost. You know what I mean?

Jojo

Right, right. Yeah. And again, there's definitely feminine parts of this costume. Like, I love the little pop of color that she's included in there.

Sarah

She's got a waist, too.

Jojo

And then she's also... Yeah, exactly. And then she's also got the little necklace that kind of is sort of representative of her daughter, and how important she is to her. So I just love, you know, again, little details of the 90s that I think came back in this movie tenfold. I think she did a really good job of just making sure those details were there.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

The next picture is also a picture of her and her daughter, because again, I love that her daughter's just wearing her oversized t-shirt. And it's a US-- well, it's the US Air Force. But it's interesting because I did a show about the WASP, which were the Women Air Service Pilots. And basically they... again, because they weren't allowed in war, they basically had to do all the training and testing of all the pilot planes before the Air Force pilots actually took them out into war. So they were doing all the crazy stunts and stuff, and then not really getting the glory, for lack of a better term. So.

Sarah

Wow.

Jojo

But yes, I just thought this was interesting that she put her in the T-shirt that we actually see Marvel in in her flashback. So it's... you know, it's kind of this nod to like, "oh, I've kept your T-shirt all these years in memory of you." So I just thought that was really sweet. Then I wanted to focus on the Skrull aliens. I don't have too much on this. I didn't do as much research on the notes of how this was made. But I just... these are just so cool. And like the fact that they spent probably a lot of time, or equal amounts of time, on these outfits. For the for the many, many aliens that showed up. [laughs]

Sarah

There's a lot of aliens.

Jojo

As they did on Captain Marvel. Just goes to show you how big Disney is and how big Marvel is. So again, all the detail, I love the asymmetry of this and just even the texture of this. I think it's leather, it looks like leather, or possibly a 3D printed fabric. Again, just all the patchwork of this. And of course, this is Talos, who's kind of the leader, and so his jacket is clearly longer. But as you can see in the next picture, some of his henchmen have varying levels of shorter versions of the same kind of jacket, just with different... you know, with different overlaps and things like that.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

So I just thought that was really interesting, that she tied everyone in together but still gave them such individuality, which we do a lot as costume designers, I think. You know, when you're trying to create a group, you still give them differences so that each of them has a personality and they're not completely getting lost in the collective.

Sarah

Totally.

Jojo

Okay, next one. So then, of course, we move to her official Captain Marvel suit. And actually, it's the same exact silhouette as her green suit. Basically, what happens is, she just has a little button on her forearm that Monica Rambeau--the young daughter--ends up changing for her, and styling for her. So it really is just a change in color on her actual suit. But of course, for the actual purposes of this movie, they probably made this suit separately.

Sarah

I would imagine so!

Jojo

I assume that it didn't just change colors. [both laugh] Like, you never know with technology these days, you know, maybe it did.

Sarah

If only.

Jojo

But yeah, so I just thought that was so interesting, they kept a lot of the same lines. And everything is so, so detailed here. But you see how much strength that they've emphasized. And this actually goes back to a lot of the original comic illustrations of this newer version of Captain Marvel. So, very similar, she had... I think she had less lines in the body suit. But it's got the same kind of red almost... shoulder capelet portion, in addition to the blue part of the body suit. So again, just really, really love it. I thought it was a really good break up of color. And I think she did a really good job of just all the lines still giving that femininity while still also showcasing strength.

Sarah

Totally.

Jojo

Okay... oh, and then this is the original redesign by Jamie McKelvie. So this was the design that he submitted, that they made the bet over.

Sarah

Ohhh.

Jojo

So I just thought that was so interesting, you know, all the stuff that he's even drawing in, like how everything functions, how her hair would be up without the helmet, and what it will look like. And this kind of sash, you can see, was actually more inspired by the original comic book drawings, because she did wear that sash across the bathing suit. And this is kind of what I meant by that red sort of... caped area.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jojo

And of course, they did some cooler lines in there to sort of show the... like, kind of emphasizing the abs, I guess, on the actual bodysuit. So anyways, just wanted to show that so that we can see the concept to the final thing.

Sarah

Cool.

Jojo

We can ignore the picture on the right, because that's in "WandaVision". But there is some throwbacks to that. I did want to basically show a final image of Monica and Maria. And again, it's nothing huge, I don't have too many notes, I just thought they looked really cute. And it was just interesting that we see her in sort of a more feminine color at the end. Because I think Maria ends up being in a lot of kind of bright yellows, and bright reds, which looks really really great, actually, on the darker skin tone.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

But I love that they kind of softened her up for this final scene where they're having dinner together. And they've kind of reunited with Captain Marvel, before she has to leave. So again, a much softer, and kind of more feminine, tone for the girl as well. She's got these really cute little jeans, and I couldn't find any pictures of them. I'm sure screengrab has them. But they've got this beautiful floral design that's patched on to the bottom of the of the jeans. And then she's got this cute little top. Which, again, they make all kinds of connections to "WandaVision" later on, of who she is. But I won't spoil too much of that 'cuz that's another episode. And then...

Sarah

I love those little Easter eggs.

Jojo

Yeah, so true. So again, just another close up of her. And again, you can't really see the close up of the mom in the back. But just seeing her in kind of a more fitted jean and a little bit more of a more feminine top that kind of shows off her body, as opposed to the flight suits that we keep seeing her in prior to this. And then... the final Captain Marvel look, you really don't see this leather jacket for very long, which is unfortunate. I mean, even the designer was kind of like, "I wish we had seen it for longer. I was hoping it would be on screen longer." But they talked a lot about it because the daughter, basically, is keeping her leather jacket for her. But I just wanted to show this quick shot of the back. Because this was one of the things that costume designer actually talked about having sort of a backstory that the audience might not necessarily know. But their backstory for it when they designed it, or when they came up with this idea, was that it was something given to her by her grandfather. So like, when he was in the war, he would have... a lot of times they would have had some kind of symbol either painted or etched or embroidered on the back to kind of indicate that it was their jacket. And so this was something that she would have maybe gotten passed down to her from her grandfather. So I just thought that was, again, a really nice little small Easter egg that we don't necessarily... I don't even think we really ever see the back of the jacket that often.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

You do see the front with the, you know, the wing insignia for the Air Force. So I thought that was kind of interesting. But again, you see that shirt that she's wearing, that we see later on on the daughter.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So there's a better, cleaner fake shot of it. [laughs] This isn't actually her, but...

Sarah

What is THAT from?

Jojo

I know, I was like, "uhhhhh, this is a better shot of the jacket." But I'm pretty sure this is a doll version that they recreated of her or something.

Sarah

It does look like a doll.

Jojo

But I wanted to indicate just the the winged fighter plane that she has on the back, which was something that the designer really talked... not too long about. But she mentioned that that was something that maybe her grandfather would have had put on the back. Okay, and then final look, this is the only one and only time I'll talk about Nick Fury. I just love this red on him. Again, I just I think I really like the color red on a darker skin tone, because it kind of brings out the richness, I think, in the skin tone.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And this is, again, kind of a nod to how we see Fury later on in all of the Avenger movies. This is very similar to kind of what he wears for the rest of the other movies. And this is also when we finally see him with his eyepatch, because in the beginning, he starts off with both eyes fully functional. So I just thought this was a really good look on him. And again, it also makes him... I think having made him look so much younger than he does in all the other movies, I think this was a really great way to kind of show how svelte he actually is.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

By just sort of, you know, again, making him look younger and making him look stronger. Emphasizing the body shape. Weirdly enough, not necessarily sexualizing him, but really showing, you know, that he's young and ready to go, and ready to take on this Avengers Initiative. So I just thought that was a really successful way of doing that. And a good way to end the movie. This was a short scene at the very end, but..

Sarah

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jojo

But I just thought this was good to take note of. So yes, that's my coverage of "Captain Marvel".

Sarah

Awesome.

Jojo

All right, Sarah, your turn!

Sarah

That made me want to watch that movie again.

Jojo

I know. It's good. And it's on Disney+.

Sarah

Yeah, I love an action movie that has a lot of women in... not just starring, but in "in charge" roles like director, writer, producer. Like, you can really tell, you know?

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

I feel the same way about the first "Wonder Woman". It's just like, you can really tell that it was directed by a woman.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Yeah.

Sarah

Anyway. All right.

Jojo

Woohoo.

Sarah

Let me share my screen. Okay, so, my movie this week is my absolute favorite movie in the world, which was really lovely to watch after a really emotional week.

Jojo

[laughs] Yes.

Sarah

To sit down and watch my favorite movie was really fun. And like, kind of with fresh eyes, too, you know, because I think I've seen it probably upwards of 50 times.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Yeah.

Sarah

But to see it with the intent of looking at the costumes was definitely a new experience for me. I'm gonna set... I'm gonna set my timer, because that served me well last time.

Yes, I need to start doing that.

It was good!

Jojo

Next episode, next episode. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah, 'cuz you can look and see how much time you kind of... see how you're doing, and see if you need to speed up or slow down, you know what I mean?

Jojo

Yeah, very true.

Sarah

Okay, so this movie is from 2010 and it actually just had an anniversary. And...

Jojo

Already?!

Sarah

Yeah, 10 year anniversary was in 2020.

Jojo

Oh, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. [both laugh] It just doesn't feel like that long since we've seen that movie.

Sarah

I know. It got rereleased back into the theaters with newly remastered sound and stuff...

Jojo

Oooh.

Sarah

And picture? I don't know, new edited sound of some kind, and it got delayed because of COVID. But they did it, they finally did rerelease it.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

I didn't go see it. I kinda wanted to. I used to go see the... they used to show it at the Frida Cinema in Santa Ana, they would do the Scott Pilgrim Picture Show. Kind of like Rocky Horror, no shadow cast, but like...

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

You know, people would come in costumes and there was themed snacks and contests and stuff.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

Anyway, okay. It was directed by Edgar Wright, who in my opinion is one of our great visionaries in movies. He is one of my absolute favorites. You might know him from the Cornetto Trilogy, which is "Shaun of the Dead," "Hot Fuzz," and "The World's End".

Jojo

Oh yes.

Sarah

Which are all excellent. "Baby Driver," which I also love, even though it has Kevin Spacey in it, who is a creep.

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

And then he has a new movie called "Last Night in SoHo" starring Anya Taylor Joy, who was in the new "Emma," who we love and it sounds really cool.

Jojo

Oh, I haven't seen that yet. I keep seeing the trailers for it and I haven't watched it yet.

Sarah

I don't think it's out yet.

Jojo

Oh, I thought... maybe I'm thinking of a different movie.

Sarah

Maybe. It's about a girl who loves fashion design, which I was like, "Okay, I'm on board." And it also has something to do with the 60s and I think there's some sort of time travel element.

Jojo

Yes!

Sarah

I didn't read it that closely. I was just like, "I'll see that no matter what."

Jojo

I remember seeing the trailer and being thoroughly confused, but being like, "that looks really cool."

Sarah

The costumes are by Laura Jean Shannon, who we have talked about before, because she did "Elf," which we have covered. Jojo covered it.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And she works a lot.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

She did "Iron Man". She does the TV show "The Boys," "Requiem for a Dream," "Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle". And she's been nominated for a couple of Costume Designers Guild Awards. So good for her. She's killing it. This movie was a box office bomb when it came out. Which is hilarious to me, because everybody I know loves it.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

The budget is estimated at around $85 million, but it only earned $49.3. Which is bad.

Jojo

Oh my gosh, it didn't even make half of it back. Yikes! [both laugh]

Sarah

I think it was a marketing issue.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

I think the studio truly just didn't know how to market it.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So it didn't really reach the people it was supposed to reach.

Jojo

That makes me sad. It's so good. [laughs]

Sarah

It became a cult classic, though on... you know, DVD and stuff.

Jojo

Sure.

Sarah

And it is now considered, you know... when it came to Netflix, I remember people losing their minds. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.

Sarah

So if you don't know, it's based on a graphic novel, a series of graphic novels. And it is really, really highly stylized in sort of like a comic book/video game format, where there will be text on screen that says like, "pow, wham, bam."

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And then there's just all sorts of visual effects. And a lot of it is shot-for-shot panels of the graphic novel, which I was surprised by when I read them... years ago, they're on my shelf right there. I need to reread them.

Jojo

Mmhmm. I want to read the originals. I've never actually read them.

Sarah

They're fun! You know, there's a lot more that happens because, you know, there's six of them.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

So they can't fit it all into the movie. But... from the Wikipedia, Edgar Wright cited and Italian movie from 1968 called "Danger Diabolique".

Jojo

Oooh. [laughs]

Sarah

Which is also an adaptation of a comic. So it was-- he said that he took "a sense of completely unbridled imagination," and that "they don't make any attempt to make it look realistic." So he didn't want it to look like real life, basically.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

Yeah. And he says that the stuff that happens on screen, with the graphics on the screen and the text, he said that this is basically... how he sees it is a visual representation of what is happening inside Scott's brain.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So it's, you know, for example when Scott-- we see Scott go use the bathroom. And on the screen, there's a thing that says "pee bar" and it's like a little bar that goes "booooop" as he pees.

Jojo

[laughs] Yeah.

Sarah

So, that's just an example.

Jojo

I forgot about that part. [laughs]

Sarah

I know. There are six volumes of the graphic novel, but at the time of the production of this movie, the sixth one had not come out yet. So they basically didn't know how it was gonna end. So they kind of made up their own ending. So it's different than in the book. But Laura Jean Shannon says that one of the costumes that she invented, and did not directly copy, ended up making it into the sixth book. So like...

Jojo

Nice!

Sarah

...Bryan Lee O'Malley, the author of the book, saw it and was like, "I like that." So he drew it into the comic on one of Ramona's costumes.

Jojo

That's awesome.

Sarah

I know, right?

Jojo

Very cool.

Sarah

He like, immortalized her work. I love that.

Jojo

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah

Oh, another thing that makes this movie interesting is that there are huge comic book movie stars in it. So Brie Larson is in this movie, which is so funny to me.

Jojo

Yeah. [laughs]

Sarah

Happy coincidence.

Jojo

I forgot about that!

Sarah

She was 18 years old when they made this movie.

Jojo

Oh my gosh.

Sarah

It was like her breakout role, basically.

Jojo

Is she Ramona?

Sarah

She's Envy. The singer in the band.

Jojo

Oh, she's... Okay, that's why. I was like, "wait, that's not her." And I was like, "No, it's definitely a different person." [laughs]

Sarah

Mary Elizabeth Winstead plays Ramona.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

But then, Chris Evans is also in it. So it's like...

Jojo

Oh my goodness, I forgot about that, too! Oh, he's one of the boyfriends.

Sarah

Yeah, he's one of the exes. So there...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

...there are a lot of references to other properties, and comic books, and movies. And it's so funny that now, the presence of those two actors is also in itself a reference. Because they are superheroes now.

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

So funny to me. Oh, and then the last note I have before I start talking about costumes is that Bryan Lee O'Malley, the author, says that he regrets that there were not enough roles in the movie for non white people.

Jojo

[laughs] Oh.

Sarah

And they stay very close to the graphic novel, and Bryan himself is half Korean. So like...

Jojo

Really?!

Sarah

...they did it, they adapted it how he wrote it. [laughs] Yeah.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

He was just kind of like, "yeah, I probably could have put more people of color."

Jojo

[laughs] In retrospect.

Sarah

Oh, and shout out to my brother Jesse 'cuz he requested that I cover this movie.

Jojo

Oh, yeah.

Sarah

Hi Jesse.

Jojo

Yay.

Sarah

He composed our beautiful theme music.

Jojo

He did.

Sarah

We love him.

Jojo

Thanks, Jesse.

Sarah

Thanks, Jesse! Okay, so in terms of costumes... this is not like a costume-y movie. If that makes sense.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

They stuck-- I found like, one interview with Laura Jean, there's not a lot out there.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

Of her just talking about the clothes. Because like, in terms of this movie, it's not really something people focus on.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

They focus on how stylized, and the action scenes, and stuff like that.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

But she said, basically, that she really wanted to stick close to the graphic novel. So some of the outfits are literal recreations of what is in the graphic novel.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And then she kind of used that framework to make her own... to kind of be creative within that, and makeup her own outfits that she thought fit with the other ones that are directly from the source.

Jojo

That's so interesting, because it is kind of like you're almost creating your own Comic Con. Right? You're creating all these characters based on something that exists in a comic. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, it is so interesting to try to translate something from a 2D illustration into...

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

...a real person who wears real clothes.

Jojo

Right. And something that's so stylized like this, you know, like this image. Because you think about the concept artists that go to our superheroes today. And they've created pretty much the same, similar look, maybe with the exception of some style lines. But like, with this when you're going from something so cartoony and non-proportional to something that's human shaped.... It's interesting. I feel like it's a creative challenge.

Sarah

Definitely, definitely. Because the silhouette is always gonna look different no matter what.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

'Cuz your person who you're dressing has a person body.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

And the cartoon is kind of triangle... or whatever. You know, whatever it may be.

Jojo

Like a large head and really skinny body or whatever.

Sarah

Exactly. This is Scott from the graphic novel. And he is great. [both laugh] I don't know where I was going when I started that sentence! Oh, I should probably just run down the plot real quick. It's about Scott Pilgrim, who is kind of a slacker. And he is dating this girl named Knives--who is in high school--and he shouldn't be dating a high schooler because he's an adult.

Jojo

[laughs] Mmhmm.

Sarah

And then he meets this girl Ramona. And he falls for her and kind of cheats on Knives with Ramona. And then Ramona is like, "Oh, actually, I have seven evil exes. Who you need to defeat in order to date me." They formed the league, basically.

Jojo

Right. [laughs]

Sarah

And it's... Scott Pilgrim is incredibly good at fighting. And in the movie, and in the graphic novel, it's never explained why he's so good. [both laugh] It's just acknowledged that he is.

Jojo

[laughs] Yep.

Sarah

I always thought that was so funny. So basically, the movie is just him moving through the League of Seven Evil Exes, in order to date Ramona, and...

Jojo

All for a girl. [laughs]

Sarah

All for a girl. This one girl. Okay...

Jojo

So funny.

Sarah

It's funny, because I've seen a lot of-- since it's been getting more attention recently, I've seen some little clickbait-y articles, and it'll be like, "actually, Scott is the bad guy!" And it's like, "Yeah, he sucks." Like, we all KNEW that. He's not a good person for most of the movie. [both laugh]

Jojo

Oh, so funny.

Sarah

Like, you just realized that?

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

Okay, so here's him in the movie, and I have a picture of him in his parka later. I had to really be careful. Like, I arranged the photos very specifically so that I can fit them all in. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

But this is him and Knives, and... his basic uniform.... Oh, and I found this interesting, is that he's basically a superhero, almost. Because he has these weird, amazing fighting powers that are never explained.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

But his superhero uniform is like, a ringer tee and jeans.

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

And sneakers, and wristbands, and a parka. Which I think is so funny.

Jojo

I love it.

Sarah

'Cuz he wears different versions of that exact exact same thing through the whole movie. And I love this Sharpie shirt a lot.

Jojo

Yes.

Sarah

It's so cute. And then here we have Knives, and this is her school uniform, I think, because she goes to a Catholic school.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And we see her go through a pretty big transformation over the course of the movie. Because this is her when she's dating Scott, but then he breaks up with her and she cuts her hair really short and dyes it to look more like Ramona. And then by the end she looks more like herself again. So she's-- I always feel bad for Knives. She's great. She deserves better. [laughs]

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And then this is Ramona in the comics. She's great. Love her.

Jojo

I love the drawing style. It's so cute.

Sarah

It's so, so cute. I love. And then this is her, basically, in sort of like what they interpreted this look into being in the movie, and this is what I like to call her "delivery girl" outfit.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And it's like an olive green sort of jacket with a hoodie underneath, with a sweater underneath, because they're in Canada and it's winter. But then a miniskirt and tights. [both laugh] Because she still wants to be cute.

Jojo

As you do.

Sarah

And then...

Jojo

I find that that's true in all cold cities, though, they're always wearing the most impossibly cold things. But then everything is layered on top.

Sarah

Yes, my sister always likes to talk about how she went to London in like, January, and all the girls who are going clubbing on the Tube would literally just be wearing miniskirts, and just like... soldiering through. [both laugh] No coats.

Jojo

That was my experience at Syracuse, too. I was like, "why? Why do you do this to yourself?" [laughs]

Sarah

Beauty is pain.

Jojo

So funny.

Sarah

And another element of her costume is this purse, which is her subspace purse. So it's basically like a portal to subspace, where she likes to store things. But she can also travel with it, into another dimension. And it helps her get across town faster in order to...

Jojo

Whaaat!

Sarah

....deliver Amazon packages, which is what her job is. [laughs]

Jojo

I forgot about that! That's crazy.

Sarah

It's literally a throwaway line. But then later she and Scott use it, they like... it shows them flying through space. I love this movie.

Jojo

[laughs] I need to rewatch it again. There's parts of this that I forgot about.

Sarah

So so good. So good. And then this picture of her with the purse is from later. I think I ended up cutting the picture of her in this full outfit. Yeah. But she this hammer, she pulls out of the purse, which is always a good time.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

We love a purse that's bigger on the inside. [laughs]

Jojo

Yes. Mary Poppins that.

Sarah

Exactly. Hermione Granger, Mary Poppins, and Ramona Flowers. Okay, so this is the first time they meet. And I love this because they're wearing each other's colors.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So basically like, she's wearing pink, and she often is wearing monochrome in the color that her hair is. So her hair starts pink, and then it goes blue, and then it goes green. And so she's wearing pink here, but she has a little blue pocket. And then he's wearing blue. But he has a little reddish-pink shirt peeking out.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So it's like they're visually tied together the first time that they meet each other, whichI think is so cute.

Jojo

Yeah. Very subtle, but very intentional.

Sarah

Exactly. And I don't know about Ramona, but every time I wear something that matches my hair, people go, "oh my god, your shirt matches your hair!"

Jojo

I know. People say that to me all the time. I'm like, "it wasn't intentional." I promise.

Sarah

I'm also just like... "I know." Like, I can see it. [both laugh] Thanks for noticing, I guess?

Jojo

I'm not blind, I dressed myself this morning.

Sarah

Yeah! [both laugh] So sometimes I avoid it because I don't want to have that conversation. [both laugh]

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

Ohhh. Anyway. Yeah. So anyhow, here's Scott and his parka. So this is the shot from the comic, this is the movie.

Jojo

I love that so much.

Sarah

And in that one interview I found, Laura Jean said they that they built these parkas, they had them made. And they made, like, 20 of them?

Jojo

Whoa!

Sarah

Yeah, she said they made about 20 of different levels of dirtiness. And then like, for different purposes, stunt wise, because there's a lot of action sequences, fight scenes, and stuff.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

And this little patch right here is an X. So that's kind of fun, because it's he's fighting the Leage of Exes. But this is actually an X-Men reference, too.

Jojo

Yeah. Mmhmm.

Sarah

So that's cute. And then I have here a little handy graphic of all the T-shirts he wears. [laughs]

Jojo

I love that so much.

Sarah

I was happy to find this.

Jojo

And with the matching shoes!

Sarah

I know. I was happy to find this so that I didn't have to get pictures of all of them.

Jojo

That's so funny. What a great way to do that.

Sarah

Yeah, thank you.

Jojo

And his little arm bands, I love that.

Sarah

I know! So-- like, this green one, I don't have any pictures of him in it, I don't think. But it has an "SP" and it's actually a Smashing Pumpkins shirt.

Jojo

Ohh.

Sarah

But it's "SP" for Scott Pilgrim as well.

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

I did a little research on these. This Match Pik one, that is a-- I think it's a brand of guitar picks, because he's a bassist.

Jojo

Okay, yeah.

Sarah

Plumtree is a band but like, a really obscure one.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

Let's see... because his name, Scott Pilgrim, comes from a song by Plumtree. So that's a reference to that.

Jojo

Ahh.

Sarah

And this particular Plumtree sure is seen in the graphic novel, which I think is very fun. And then this little skull is from something called Diesel Sweeties, which I think is a webcomic.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

And then he just has one that says "SARS," which is excellent. [both laugh] This is Astro Boy.

Jojo

And Astro Boy! Love it.

Sarah

Yep. I don't know what "zero" is. But like, I think people have said that he's zero in the League of Exes, or-- he also drinks Coke Zero, famously.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

And then this is a Fantastic Four thing, but this is four and a half.

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

And this is Guitar Hero, this red one.

Jojo

Uh huh.

Sarah

So I don't know what this guy is over here in the...

Jojo

Oh. Okay.

Sarah

...the circle that looks like it's made of CDs.

Jojo

Interesting. I was... I know, I was thinking CDs as well. [note: it's the logo to the CBC.]

Sarah

Yeah, I was a little bit late because I was on a website that was literally a breakdown of every single graphic tee in the movie. And I didn't get to that one. [laughs]

Jojo

No worries. No worries.

Sarah

So yeah.

Jojo

Those are just fun.

Sarah

Right? I love a graphic tee. So.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So here's him, this is the Plumtree shirt in action. And then this is one of my favorite scenes, just because like... this is him and his bandmates. So we have Scott... the singer... Oh my god, I just forgot his name. [laughs] I've seen this movie SO many times. What is his name? ...Steven.

Jojo

It's been too long since I've seen it.

Sarah

Steven. "He's the talent." [both laugh] This is Young Neil. And this is Kim, who plays drums, and it's funny 'cuz...

Jojo

I do love Kim.

Sarah

I love Kim. These guys look exactly like they look in the graphic novel. And I had a picture of that, but I had to cut it 'cuz I [singsong] didn't have enooough.

Jojo

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah

I do have an extra picture of him...

Jojo

So many pictures for this movie.

Sarah

...in the Plumtree shirt, though. I don't know. So there's that. This scene is also one of the ones that is identical in the book, which I just love. And as you can see, there's text on the screen. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

But yeah, Kim, in her-- she's constantly wearing a jacket that's zipped all the way up to the throat. And it's, to me, like... she and Scott used to date, and she is a little bit closed off. She's very sarcastic and a little bit aggressive. So I think that having a jacket zipped all the way up shows that she's uncomfortable, you know, just always kind of like, ready to fight people.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Right.

Sarah

And then I love Steven's sort of Western shirt with the guitars on it. That is so cool.

Jojo

That's such a nice little touch.

Sarah

I know, right? He's always wearing a Western shirt. And like, also in the comic book. So I just... I love how closely they stuck to it.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

This is Matthew Patel. He's the first evil ex boyfriend. ....Yep. [both laugh]

Jojo

[long sigh] That's all I have say about that!

Sarah

I think the one thing I have to say is that the polo with the popped color, in 2010 I think was already dated. So...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

...him thinking that he's cool by popping his color and having emo boy hair when it was already...

Jojo

It's almost 90s.

Sarah

I feel like it's very my era, like MySpace, 2005... sort of. This is the kind of boy that I loved on MySpace.

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

When I was a teenager. [laughs]

Jojo

Oh, so funny.

Sarah

But in 2010 that was already a little bit like, "eurgh." So he's trying to be cool but not really succeeding.

Jojo

Yeah. Right.

Sarah

And then we have Roxy, she is Ramona's only female ex. Her outfit is rad and confusing. [both laugh] 'Cuz...

Jojo

I don't know which. [laughs]

Sarah

She.... it's like...

Jojo

Oh wow!

Sarah

...is it a dress? She has a little triangle bikini top that has spangles on it.

Jojo

Oh, yeah.

Sarah

Or studs. You can kind of see right here. And then she has sort of like a cropped hoodie with a giant hood. Love, love a giant hood.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And then I think... like, a one-sided sort of dress.

Jojo

It almost looks like it's falling off. A little bit?

Sarah

Yeah, maybe it's unbuckled on one side or something.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And then she has ripped up stockings and like, big furry boots. [laughs]

Jojo

But only ripped on one side.

Sarah

Yeah. And then the belt-- this belt is actually her weapon. And she whips it around.

Jojo

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah

It's great. And I love her makeup so, so much. So cool. Okay.

Jojo

[laughs] They did a good job.

Sarah

So let's move on to Envy. This is Envy in the comic book. She's the lead singer of The Clash at Demonhead, which is a fictional band. And she is also Scott's "big ex" from the past, like... his only serious relationship from his past. Well, he also dated Kim, but they weren't that serious.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And then this is Brie Larson as Envy.

Jojo

Ugh, so great.

Sarah

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say this was my bisexual awakening. [both laugh] Me being like, "Oh, I think I do like girls too." 'Cuz look at her!

Jojo

She's so fierce.

Sarah

She's stunning. This white trench coat. She pretty much just wears black and white, and then a little bit of red. And then I love her jewelry, because these earrings, I think, are snakes.

Jojo

Oooh.

Sarah

And then she has sort of like a bird skull and a dagger for necklaces.

Jojo

Uh huh.

Sarah

She just looks very dangerous and sexy. Which is the idea, right? Is that like, she's from his past and she's-- now she's really famous and everybody loves her. And she's a threat, basically.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

This is her onstage, singing...

Jojo

Oh my goodness, she looks so young in comparison. So crazy.

Sarah

I know! And so... like, she's so buff now because she's a superhero that her little arms...

Jojo

They look so lanky! [laughs]

Sarah

And then this is her shoes. I didn't get a full body shot because there isn't really one, but I'm obsessed with these shoes.

Jojo

Yeah. Oh my goodness.

Sarah

She's partially based on the lead singer of Metric. Because--

Jojo

I love Metric.

Sarah

Me too. And the song she's singing is a Metric song that I think Metric wrote for the movie.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

But yeah, so she's partially based on the lead singer of Metric, whose name is Emily Hane. Okay, this is Ramona and Knives in the bathroom at that gig. And as you can see, Knives has transformed into sort of like a mini Ramona. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah. It's like she decided to quit halfway through. [both laugh] "I couldn't commit to the full hair."

Sarah

Yeah, yeah. So Ramona has her blue hair now. So then Knives has sort of like a partially blue thing happening because she's mad and she wants to get back at Scott. Which is funny to get back at him by like, making yourself look like his current girlfriend. That's kind of a weird move. [both laugh]

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

But she is, like, 17.

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

I had more outfits of Ramona's and I just literally like... I didn't have... I couldn't do it.

Jojo

It's so hard.

Sarah

But she does wear a lot of blue when her hair is blue, fittingly. So...

Jojo

I do love this color blue on her.

Sarah

Me too. Me too.

Jojo

I mean, just in general, but I mean, it looks great on her.

Sarah

She looks good in any hair color. Yeah. Okay, so this is Todd. He's one of the evil exes and he's also in the band The Clash at Demonhead. And he and Envy, you can see that they're very clearly tied together because they both wear black and white.

Jojo

Oh my goodness. She's so skinny there.

Sarah

I know, she's little. She was 18!

Jojo

So crazy.

Sarah

She's already a petite girl, but she's definitely like...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

Yeah. It's funny to me that Todd also wear sweatbands. I don't know what that's about. Maybe Bryan Lee O'Malley really just likes drawing sweatbands on people. [laughs]

Jojo

Or maybe he grew up playing tennis.

Sarah

Oh, maybe.

Jojo

So he's just used to having them on all the time. So he just assumed everyone else is gonna wear them.

Sarah

And he has a three on his shirt because he's the third evil ex. Some things are that literal. [both laugh]

Jojo

So funny. It works.

Sarah

Yeah. And then.... Oh, also, I forgot about him. Oh my gosh, this is Brandon Routh, also known as Superman from the Superman movies that came out in the late 2000s.

Jojo

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

Sarah

Yeah, so he was like, the first...

Jojo

I don't know if I've seen any of those.

Sarah

I saw the first one and it was not good. Are there... is there more than one?

Jojo

That's what I might've heard.

Sarah

I don't know.

Jojo

Possibly.

Sarah

But yeah, I definitely saw it and was not impressed. But he was like, the first modern Superman reboot... Superman.

Jojo

Oh, okay.

Sarah

So it's funny that he's in-- this was also after that. So it's funny that he's in this, because it's like a comic book... superhero sort of thing.

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

And then here's Envy in that same outfit. It's just a close up of the jacket, which I love.

Jojo

I want that jacket so bad.

Sarah

I know. And you can see her earrings, her little snake earrings. Oh, and she is blonde in the movie. But in the comic you can kind of see... this is kind of a weird... colorized. But she's redhead. And you can see the-- there are camera tests that I think were a part of the DVD special features.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

And they camera test her in a bunch of different hair colors. So I think they decided on this one, just based on what she looked the best in, instead of sticking super close to the comics. And I think that that was a good choice because the super blonde hair is so striking, especially compared to everybody else.

Jojo

Especially since she's wearing black and white.

Sarah

Yeah. It makes her whole...

Jojo

It keeps to that color palette.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah, yeah, monochrome... sort of thing. So amazing. Oh, I forgot to mention when I was talking about Roxy that Laura Jean Shannon said that her costume was the most fun for her.

Jojo

Oh, nice.

Sarah

I think she's just kind of, you know-- it's more creative and weird and interesting.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

Oh, I have a note about Ramona's hair. But that's-- look, here's a picture of Ramona and her hair. [both laugh] This is from a website called Moda Chicago. And that's kind of where some of the information I had about Scott's t-shirts is from too.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

"Looking at the moments in the movie, Ramona styles her hair differently. She changes into the blue after the first time Scott sleeps at her house, and then into the green when she rekindles her relationship with Gideon, who was the seventh ex. And these are clues that link her hairstyles with her feelings about her relationship." So it's like she changes her hair when something major is happening in her life. And I can relate to that 'cuz I do that too. [laughs]

Jojo

Isn't that the only reason you change hair color?

Sarah

No, it isn't, but it's...

Jojo

I know. [laughs]

Sarah

It's a fun thing to do to distract yourself if you're going through something.

Jojo

I didn't mean you, specifically, I meant in general. [laughs]

Sarah

Oh yeah, the royal you. The general you. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

I like that it's sort of like a visual marker of her emotional progress through the movie. So this is her last iteration. It's her green. Again, looking great. And then this is Gideon played by Jason Schwartzman, who is so funny. And my sister was watching this with me--and I noticed that too--she was like, "he's wearing, like, the same jacket as Envy." So if we look back at Envy's...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

...it's white with black topstitching, and so is his. So, that's so interesting to me.

Jojo

Fascinating.

Sarah

Like, was that on purpose? I don't know. Did they just like it?

Jojo

Yeah. I wonder what the choice was for that.

Sarah

Yeah. I know that Jason Schwartzman has talked about this character. And he says that he played it as if he thinks that this guy wears silky women's underwear as like a secret to himself. [both laugh] So I think about that every time I watch it, and I'm like, "makes sense. Totally makes sense."

Jojo

[laughs] "Now I understand your acting choices."

Sarah

Right? He's very slimy and very, very concerned with being cool and hip. And... yeah. And he just wants attention. So this is definitely the outfit of a guy who wants attention: the white blazer with a red shirt, and he has a full cane.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Yeah.

Sarah

He's gross. And then Ramona ends the movie-- I don't have a full body shot of this because I couldn't find any good ones. But it's a really cute sort of fit-and-flare dress. Looks pretty poofy on the bottom. Great.

Jojo

So cute.

Sarah

And that's it! That's all I've got.

Jojo

Woo!

Sarah

I have five seconds to spare on timer.

Jojo

"All" you got, I love it. [laughs]

Sarah

...two, one.

Jojo

We did good on time.

Sarah

Wow.

Jojo

Awesome job, Sarah.

Sarah

Nailed it.

Jojo

It was so fun to go back through that movie. It's been a while since I've seen it.

Sarah

It's the best.

Jojo

I have to watch it again. That's definitely one that I watch over and over again as well.

Sarah

Absolutely. It's a comfort movie for me, for sure. And I have a lot of it memorized. [laughs]

Jojo

Love it. As you should.

Sarah

It's great.

Jojo

All right.

Sarah

This was fun!

Jojo

Definitely. That's all we have for today. We'll see you on the next one. And if you have any comments, like we said, you know, please do review. And please do comment on our Instagram. We do respond pretty quickly to, actually, anyone who's left any messages or comments.

Sarah

Yeah, we see them.

Jojo

And we do love to hear from you guys. You know, we're nothing without our listeners. So we love having comments, and even just insight from you guys. Like I said, we don't know anything... I mean... [both laugh]

Sarah

We're ust a couple of dumb-dumbs.

Jojo

Let's rephrase that! We don't know everything. [both laugh] That's what I meant. Yes, we don't know everything. And it's always great to hear, you know, people that have the insight or have actual information about all of these little quirky things. Especially for movies and comic book worlds like this where...

Sarah

Oh, yeah, there's a lot of lore.

Jojo

...there really is such a-- I mean, you know, camaraderie between fans.

Sarah

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jojo

They really know so much more information than we know. So, anything you can tell us.

Sarah

It's overwhelming. Yeah.

Jojo

Yes. So some of these things we've been asking questions about, we'd love to hear from you.

Sarah

Yeah. And I want to do a quick thank you to anybody who might have voted for me in the Her Universe Fashion Show. I did not win. But I am very happy for those who did and I'm happy to possibly get the chance to do it again in the future, you know?

Yeah! Every year is a learning experience.

So thank you if you did. I appreciate it. I had a lot of fun. I'm really proud of the work I did. So.

Jojo

Yay! I voted for you, Sarah.

Sarah

Thaaanks! [both laugh]

Jojo

I meant to tell you, but I was like, "I'll just tell her in person."

Sarah

Appreciate it.

Jojo

But yes. All right. Well, we will see you on the next episode. Thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you on the next one.

Sarah

Thank you. Bye!

Bye!

[OUTRO]

Jojo

Thank you for listening to The Costume Plot! You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @thecostumeplot. If you have a question, comment, or movie suggestion you can email us at [email protected].

Sarah

Our theme music is by Jesse Timm, and our artwork is by Jojo Siu. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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