#such that we couldn't get the scenario that rian plans to hook up with him; makes sure they're both high before propositioning this

[unproduciblesmackdown]

another day another part of a discussion w/an asexual lens making me think of billions, starting with the articulated normative concept (which is clearly part of an assumption billions' material works off of & expects the viewer to work off of to interpret that material) that for men sex is a matter of fact need whereas for women sex (that they might Seek themselves, beyond dutifully providing it in the face of a man's Need) is an indulgence, like lol imagining billions being like yeah i mean cmon is [woman] supposed to pretend she doesn't have a body with needs :/ while it's like prince taking advantage of women & wags looking for another Young Woman Body to use as thing that gives him His Progeny & it's like aw it's great actually that you have Wants, that's so empowered of you guys

obviously thinking of winston in that mix & what creation &/or leveraging of increased vulnerability is also taken as matter of fact or empowering indulgence or something, rather than analyzed re: power dynamics....& then was thinking that like yeah billions assumes winston is a man but makes him the engaging site of Doing Things Wrong that it doesn't even Partly, With Many Limits, engage with critically as it does re: introducing taylor as someone who "does things wrong," (but not too much. stop that) or then, like, rian in the same vein, but what a surprise that in often already putting up these limits on of what & how much taylor's character can actually fundamentally put things taken as "normal (unquestionable) & correct" into a critical context, amazing that rian's character as supposedly another level of [taylor] added to that actually gets reined in immediately like "oh you can't actually be That abnormal, for Real" (then also immediately treated as yeah true i'm a normal i'm a paragon what the hell am i doing Leaving here i Do belong here. you've never seen me with a hat) & after billions doesn't have [rian serves the purpose of taylor having dialogue at someone. or alleged but largely insubstantial nonmeaningful conflicts Or resolutions] or [rian, ofc assumed woman, serves the woman purpose of "keeper of body man uses to have sex" for a plotline as or more insubstantial & antimeaningful (besides the substance & meaning of all the preexisting normative perspectives on gender/sexuality & power dynamics) as anything has ever been] or even [rian, just zany enough to be abusive to winston in ways beyond doing your best to filter out / deny that he exists] like oh None of that's relevant? rian is completely some background rando who just goes "yeah what he said" to background randos like dollar bill & victor or just stands in for those roles here & there, indistinguishably except whoa hey didn't you notice she's a girlboss version of these rando assholes

but like back to how winston is "wrong" in a way that cannot be questioned or question the "right"ness in that paradigm (flipping the script, rejecting the premise. of course that winston was "wrong" to do that is Factual), or ofc if you did it would be a joke with no meaning that could Really be considered to be "real" questionability of the assumptions that dictate what winston Factually Is (wrong)....that ofc sex isn't a "need" for some particular created Class of people, but it's the hierarchal elevation of that class (i.e. patriarchy) that can frame it as a "need" that ofc in actuality isn't about anyone dropping dead but as an Entitlement that one can Expect to have fulfilled, indeed supposedly "matter of fact" when the "fact" is that the concept here is that a man will have sex if he wants it, so what's to distinguish it from fulfilling a need he can Expect to have met b/c he will literally die without it? meanwhile whether a woman "wants" sex is beside the point when her body is a component of [men's fulfilled need for sex] & thus that question of "want" is an "extra" matter that is only relevant if a woman seems to be engaging in sexual activity in a way not fully contained by the concept of [fulfilling a man's need] wherein it's like the idea of oh this woman Wants sex is "useful" in ways that would reinforce patriarchy: sex work happens in an socioeconomic context that doesn't start & end in the domain of Individual Men? call that "wanting sex" to be like, yeah i assume i'll have sex in the future according to what i'm traded for it, not according to the enshrined Need Of A Man(tm)....& then to just accept the same premises, women don't Need Sex (i.e. aren't entitled to get it from men, independent of whether the man wants that at all or from them specifically, the way it is re: men "needing" sex from women) & their "wanting" it is something Extra to their status as fulfillers of men's sexual needs, but what if instead of that "want" being Bad, we saw it as Good? like hell yeah that's Empowered of you? feminism wins, done & dusted

back to winston for real like he is a role seen as Wanting things, And That's Bad. he wants things all the other characters are here wanting, like to have relationships of various kinds, get validation & be re/affirmed, get to partake in the activities that others are by virtue of Being There, such as "communicating," but it's more "well, of course. they're only human" for others & it's Pathetic of winston & offputting & arrogant in the ways that he seeks getting these wants met, or meeting them by doing [xyz] in the first place, like Being Present b/c he wants to be, & he is Out Of Line in doing so b/c others are supposed to be superior, which is meaningful insofar as they have authority over him for it, thus he Ought to have his "extra" "wanting" denied as much as possible b/c hm turns out Superior Authorities aren't just such benevolent omniscient shepherds of the inferior that it's all harmonious & there's not as much extraction in a situation of greatest precarity as possible....prince a sicko for seeing things that way, wendy is correct for seeing herself that way though, & anyone who lashes out at winston on sight for whatever reason is correct for it too, b/c call it a generous benefaction of ABA

anyway people "needing" all this stuff, can't go without it, how could you expect them to??? which is to say ofc it's not a "need" like they would be able to point to themselves dying without it, but it's something that can always be Expected to be accessed / obtained due to an Entitlement to it (backed up by power leverage). if it's not happening in that context, it's back to being a "want" that someone would be arrogant to Expect or out of line to Seek, including by "demanding" it which would be asking or arguing for it beyond what is heroically charitably given in a way that does not threaten the elevated superiority of the giver who has taken pity thusly....winston being put in a queer context unbeknownst to billions for being assumed a man but "wrong" at it (while billions also doesn't think about how it saddles the other quant with the demands of a cishet context, two sides same coin going on there in the "right" vs "wrong" quant duo) & unlike True Men he is not entitled to sex, thus, it's something he Wants b/c the [he can Never Have It, that would be wrong] is incompatible with being that alleged Need that of course these other men just "have to" pursue & obtain with all their bonus power leverages, i.e. they Are Going To, vs winston Not going to, "obviously," even as it isn't obvious at all b/c why would it be? he even gets to implicitly have had sex ever Just for the purposes of how "factually" wrong it is, imagine Learning anything about sex or not being born with the Right Body, no question that those "ideals" are undeniable reality, emphasis on the "undeniable," hey if the eugenics is still systemically entrenched who's to "question" it lol? those targeted? same as "how can Women question that Men need sex"? it's god or nature that dictates this gender binary, insofar as i don't Need to convince anyone of it to be enforcing it. force of nature. as is the "need" of a man to have sex. as is whatever the abusive party feels like doing at any given time, if you're the abused stuck in that situation. May As Well Be, so

all that to say like winston has this "extra" "want" for Everything b/c billions thinks he is a punching bag nonperson who ultimately anyone deserves to violate & assault however to whatever extent (where any restraint is just the assumed bounds of what would be too "unseemly" in the context of the broader situation, which is pretty arbitrary & just changes upon whenever billions decides "oh actually this violent action is Serious" like dollar bill was good to go the whole time, wags was, wendy is just creating Fun if she puts on a performance of this eruption of violence in the office the same ep she yells & slams some phone around after putting the tmcers in front of the people who are assaulting them but it's not That Serious....the entire idea that "of course" there are these absolute concrete boundaries based on what's "too much" that you would just Feel at the time such that you couldn't possibly find yourself in the wrong b/c you would have preempted Doing that inappropriate act; the entire idea that "oh yeah Some people are less of real people than me but i'd Know when i went Too Far" as though "too far" isn't mostly bounded by what you can get away with &/or is rewarded for how it plays into this hierarchy as is of who is inferior vs superior. dehumanization? don't mind if i do, b/c i'm against it, except like, you don't have to "be against dehumanization" to be against dehumanization, right? your inner sense of The Vibes would make sure you never "really" did that, same as Everything Else ostensibly based on principles that don't actually need to be exercised "on principle"....don't Really have a problem with in group / out group so long as i'm in the out group. it's not bad for anyone to do something to someone, it's bad to be anyone someone could do something to. and winston is definitely someone that anyone could do anything to :) what's more shocking than this: victim blaming being completely the Norm, abuse being the Norm, the Norm comfortably containing all the violence that it already does & able to obfuscate & deflect actual questioning of it b/c it can so far just keep doing it one way or another, may as well Need to be this way, may as well be the only possible way b/c it arises out of these assumed beliefs that are just Universally Human, thus would happen no matter what & it can only be this way. the autistic rando Would be treated like this in every universe :) as another way of believing it Unquestionable, b/c it is surely inherently Inviolable

bringing it back around from whatever might have been the thread there: also Lol Lmao (dire) that part of what makes winston's sexuality so cringefail is that he doesn't consider himself "entitled" to have sex w/any particular woman, such as his crush, As He Should if he were a man in the Right ways, i.e. "truly," i.e. he is more like a woman, i.e. inferior, which is absolutely what we see in how winston treats him, like a woman he doesn't "need" sex (is entitled to it) & so he "wants" sex & this is suddenly not Empowered of him b/c why would billions go "oh right, uh, feminism win" when it doesn't see him as "really" a woman, just a man who is too Like one, thus not bestowed with the ostensible Girlboss lens on every single woman on billions ever, feminism win again, a Boyemployee out here fr to be Humorously Abused by one of those girlbosses, with we the viewers assumed to assume that girlboss recognizes the fact that winston's sexuality is a repulsive deviant intrusion trying to disrupt the Natural Order (nothing to question in that, am i right? my cishet agenda'd men who would never research anything about having sex & can Sense what kind of bodies everyone has b/c well isn't it always so obvious? if it weren't, that in & of itself would be Too much of a turnoff. i would never be Really attracted to "wrong" bodies, i would preemptively be correctly repulsed, i would never be Really abusive to "wrong" "people," i would preemptive by correctly repulsed by True moral transgression) like. stunning that billions' idea of an encapsulating sendoff for riawin is rian hanging back shit talking winston, being in charge of winston's actually friendly coworker & ABA telling him that being Known to support winston is wrong, obviously no reflection on rian being abusive other than to tell us billions thinks it was a graciously charitable kindness of Attention he didn't deserve, rian then talking to him like aw i'll kind of miss this piece of property i'm throwing out (oh wait i forgot he exists. oh wait yes i'll help you kill him. oh wait i'm not interested in the followup & winston will never get to talk to me about it including when he materializes back into the office once more later) but like it's just:

(cont.) so above & beyond stunning for billions to spell out winston as an Exception in no negative shift in his treatment of her & then saying this treatment has always been "pathetic & slavish" (like........) / this lack of a negative shift in his treatment of her is itself Negative, "truly," rian is just too sentimental towards him as she has been all this time in becoming like the one person whose abusiveness towards him is most varied, most frequent, and most intimate (winston isn't friends or even seatmates with anyone else who does this kind of shit / other kinds of shit, award for rian not being seen physically assaulting winston) like um lol imagine not being Entitled to this woman, hence the "joke" that was winston's crush the whole time which was so actually not relevant that there'd be no reason to assume in s7 he still Particularly "wanted" (boooo hissss, like a woman?? a woman who is a slut??? or empowered if you accept the same premises but suppose a "positive" framing is doing the Opposite in any way that actual threatens the premises, which it doesn't much, which is preferable to analyzing the power dynamics within which people "need" or "want" or "have" sex or don't....don't mind billions' preoccupation with winston's body (with a sexual context) or sex drive (also sexual context. nothing Matter Of Fact about that, it's gross, thanks) or any expression of pursuit of sex with a specific person, so Pathetic as to assume it might not happen b/c that person has agency he doesn't want to steamroll (or can't anyway? like a loser) rather than Knowing He Is Entitled & a girlboss would correctly recognize his Real Man right to have sex with her, why Wouldn't she want to have sex with him anyway? which is a question you can just say to yourself rhetorically as you write that happening for a hollow gesture at [power dynamics?] that goes "well, but of course men need sex, which is simple fact. & women want it, if they're empowered, which is okay" i.e. it is "correct" to assume any given correct woman (all of them, on billions) will fulfill your entitlement to i mean need for sex, ofc it's up to the Wrong kind of men to Not assume as much, or even leverage [negative treatment] to their advantage, just Positive (& neutral) treatment in case a woman is down b/c that's All They Have, like a loser, unlike winners who have their power to leverage. cue mafee getting a pat on the head by wendy about the "aw gee i guess i kind of have a crush but i know it's never gonna go anywhere" like oh pathetic but you get that pat on the head b/c we don't hate you as much as winston, same as the Went Nowhere Fast thread of his liking lauren, well but she's not even single so it's not Necessarily as personal an [of course not?] but like also lol of course not, well but we didn't make sure to laugh at another [never gonna happen] moment in the end. but what else is the point of winston, & we have so much fun Indulging in it, we sure do Want to, & it's an epic fun n games Want & Indulgence when we do it. not when winston does it

tl;dr billions is like "smh winston's a slut for everything" and Lol Lmao the "don't be so fucking needy" b/c his wanting is Needing & our wanting is needing but in a correct way; uh oh is the way billions lashes out at winston a Reflection on the assumptions & actions behind that? that winston is introduced (as supposedly only to appear in that episode) as being too liable to Defensively Lash Out, which is done in a scene where all the other characters are defensively lashing out at him & that was Correct? can you imagine if some characters felt entitled to have various "needs" met & to be able to create negative consequence if they weren't, no, it's the quant we targeted for being autistic & who is irritated about this, & about his boss shitting on him in the meantime, & is daring to Say Anything about it or in general, who is creating such a hassle for everyone & demanding so much with his feelings at any given time. episode WDE really showing how so much of the ultimate fantasy re: winston is to force a mirror up to him (surely the purest power trip is forcing that "nooo, my inferiority, & truly your superiority" despairing acknowledgment Affirmation &/or simply the exercise of superiority i.e. authority that is just doing whatever you want to someone. both happening to winston, they only don't also literally kill him b/c billions just doesn't really do that in general) & but then that episode actually being that clearest mirror to / reflection of billions & its assumptions & perspective & limits it sets in Analyzing Power or anything else & what it even wants to do more generally, whoops! & you know that even if you got a degree of "maybe any of that was out of line in any Real way" it'd be about the victim blaming perspex of [i mean is the real problem Doing Xyz To Anyone or Having Xyz Done To You? (that's right, it's the latter)] like couldn't be done to him if he wasn't a loser anyway, real winners can dictate what can happen to them & do whatever they want, just as we always knew winston was a loser b/c he Might Not have sex w/a woman he likes, & they Might Not (lol. Will not. but he thinks "might not" b/c he's pathetic & Doesn't Get It b/c if he did he'd have been born better or kill himself for not having done so, one supposes) b/c winston is a loser, who can only "want" sex & anything else, vs what other characters "need" to have, like control of his existence & sometimes also taylor's