#still my toxic short king tho love him hes never done anything wrong a day in his life

[supaara]

favorite part of the aftg extra content is andrew being labeled a "borderline misogynist"

that's so fucking funny someone stop this man

[frankie-catfish-morales]

Okay. My issues & fave things for Frozen 2 - Masterpost.

Spoilers and negativity beyond the cut. But also positivity! Cause I did like some things.

- The Negatives - 

1. I have serious qualms about the notion that Elsa doesn’t feel like she “belongs” in Arendelle. With her sister. And the family they built. The reason for this is simple. Every single piece of canon that has ever been produced by this franchise has said otherwise. They were separated 10 years (ish). They never wanted to be apart again. As recently as TWO YEARS ago (probably not that long in the movie timeline) Disney produced a short emphasizing their built family, and how home is wherever Anna is. Olaf gets lost in the woods, the wilderness, and they have to go find him because they all belong together. Elsa shows literally no interest in the woods nor being in the wilderness. She then proceeds to sing “When We’re Together” with Anna, and sings this TO Anna:

It frankly feels to me like they forgot what this franchise was all about and the foundations that they have been building it on. Elsa and Anna. Together. The way they have written these characters, to me, is not convincing that they would EVER wish to separate. 

You can argue to me that “Elsa isn’t that far away”. Yes, that is true. She could ice luge down the hill and see Anna and the fam. But you know what else wasn’t that far away? Elsa’s room. Separate is separate. Living with someone with no shut doors and not living with someone but visiting sometimes is not the same. And the characters have stated several times across four releases of visual media and COUNTLESS Disney produced merch that they do not wish to separate. Ever. It’s not just how it has been written.

Now,  I can understand the idea that they were trying to communicate that Elsa was feeling unfulfilled, but it is 100% contradictory with every other piece of literature about this story they have put out, so to me, it made no sense character arc wise. It  was too sudden for it to come up right now, rushed in an opening song for the final movie. Olaf’s Frozen Adventure didn’t come out that long ago, so to me this feels like a complete 180. 

Perhaps what they were trying to say in this movie is that if Elsa didn’t leave, Anna would never allow herself to have a fucking life. You can see this possibly in the scene where Anna leaves with Kristoff without saying anything, and trying to insist on coming with Elsa even if it’s pretty clear she would be in serious danger. You can also see this a bit in the lyrics to “The Next Right Thing”:

“I follow you around I always have But you've gone to a place I cannot find”

“I don't know anymore what is true I can't find my direction, I'm all alone The only star that guided me was you How to rise from the floor When it's not you I'm rising for?” 

Anna does put Elsa before anyone and anything else, even herself. But if THAT is what they are trying to say, they are basically saying Anna and Elsa’s relationship is and has been toxic, or having toxic qualities, and that’s really saying fucked up shit about the whole franchise. Especially because there are so many fans out there who really connected with that aspect of Frozen.

2. I am, quite frankly, really TIRED of the trope that powerful magical women *can’t* be queens. Because they don’t “belong”, because they are “out of touch”, because they need to leave, they need to die (*cough* Daenerys Targaryen), or that they were “mad” or not good for society. That their strength is too much for them to be in society or be a queen. I think it’s quite empowering that Elsa feels free, but I do not like the concept that she couldn’t feel free and be a good queen. That she abdicated and basically rolled out, extremely rushed and in a moment where a lot was already happening. It’s like her being queen in the first place wasn’t even important. And no, she is NOT queen of the Northumbra (I will go into this assertion in my next bulletpoint).  You aren't just automatically queen of something when you aren't coronated or acknowledged by who you are ruling as such in any fashion.  I highly doubt the Native population would make some white girl they just met their queen. Elsa stepped down, and she is now a liaison between the enchanted forest and Arendelle. She’s an ambassador, and Anna is now Queen. Which, if we took the implications out of it, would be fine. I don’t dislike Anna. She’s grown so much, she’d be a wonderful queen. I just think Elsa should still be queen. Elsa can still be a liaison between the realms. Who better to be queen than a woman who is a liaison and has the interests of Arendelle, the Enchanted Forest, and the elements? You can tell me “She didn’t want to be Queen!” as much as you want, but lets get really into the facts here. She suddenly “didn’t want to be queen” because she was written that way. It could have been written differently and would have been in character.

It bothered me so much that Disney Parks thought it was a good idea for the face characters in the parks to come out in the final outfits literally ONE DAY before the movie came out. I had this plot aspect spoiled to me (and I’m not in the spoiler culture but that was a really big plot point to spoil so lets get real here, I’m allowed to be upset) because people posted pictures of Anna in her crown with the tags # Queen Anna, before the movie was even released. I immediately didn’t like it, but I wanted to try and stay positive that it would be convincing, but it honestly just continued to rub me wrong. It feels like they were trying to get cheap “YAS KWEEN” moments for both the Elsa fandom and the Anna fandom, and I felt like it was empty and unnecessary. Anna is a badass regardless. She didn’t need that for a “YAS KWEEN” moment. She has quite a few incredible, powerful, and strong AF moments. I  love her without that.

3. I mentioned in point 2 that “Elsa is not queen of the Northumbra.” The reason I mentioned that is because a friend of mine thought that and was confused. Which brings me to my 3rd point. The mythology and plot that they constructed for this movie was extremely confusing, didn’t explain enough, and had too many plot-holes. That friend and a few of the people she saw the movie with thought Queen Iduna was Queen of the Northumbra. She wasn’t. Another thought she had wind powers. She doesn’t. She was just playing in the wind elemental when Agnarr saw her.

Some more questions:

Did literally none of the Northumbra know their chief was murdered?! Why wasn’t that ever brought up if they did now, and if they didn’t, why didn’t they remember? 

How did the kingdom of Arendelle not realize what sea Queen Iduna and King Agnarr were sailing to? Why would this have never come up before? Oh, Anna and Elsa, your parents were on the way to Rapunzel’s wedding or Tarzan world, but then turned around and set sail on this completely separate, very dangerous sea and we never told you. This, to me, is why the movie was poorly written, no one has any fucking idea what actually happened in some scenes.

4. Speaking of Queen Iduna, if she is Northumbra, and she is used to being around elemental magic ALL THE TIME, why did she react to Elsa’s powers at first the way she did? Why did she interpret the troll’s advice the way she did? WHy did she support and enable Elsa’s father shutting her up and away when she know’s first hand the elementals were good and what those powers could do? 

And like the whole movie was supposed to be why Elsa had magic and I still have no idea. That was not explained well. She's the 5th element? Ice isn't an element. Ice is water. If she’s an element, is she going to die? Or when Anna dies is she going to live forever as an elemental-human hybrid wandering the woods sobbing like Arwen Undomiel was cautioned of? Is it was because her mom saved her dad, linking the two nations? Her good deed gave her power? Like Harry Potter? Okay, but why ice specifically. Anna said that Elsa was “the last piece”. But of what? Of the elements? Again, ice isn’t an element. Ice is water. Water was covered. Was it because she had to right the wrong of the grandfather building the dam and killing the chief of Northumbra? But Anna destroyed the dam with the elementals. Was it so she could find out the truth about what happened? She could have done that without ice powers. Why was it ice? What was the significance of the cave Alhalla (Alhambra?)? Why could she only find out the answers there? Why are we supposed to believe Elsa wants to routinely hang out in a secluded ice cave that is a huge downgrade from her awesome ice castle instead of being with her sister? Is it cause her mother is there? Who is family? So why can’t she lie with Anna, her other family, and visit the cave when she wishes?

The concept of elements and Elsa having some sort of relationship to it, the IDEA is so good, I just was seriously disappointed in how it was executed. I think the only explanation we have here is: “the spirits gave her her powers to unite everyone." And that wasn’t enough for me. WHY ICE THO. 5. I did not, at all, in any way, like when Elsa saw that memory of her singing “Let It Go” and was like, embarrassed of it? Like, “Oh my godddd I did that, how EMBARRASSING....”......That moment means so much to a lot of people, and I felt like that was really OOC and kinda disrespectful. That song is an anthem for people with mental issues and people in the LGBTQ community and it just felt wrong to me. Did NOT like that.

6. I really really wish that Anna x Kristoff AND Anna x Elsa had a longer duet than what was in “Some Things Never Change” and the lullaby reprise. Their voices together are BEAUTIFUL. I think it a missed opportunity, especially when reunited with Elsa and Kristoff. Anna could have had a brief duet with Elsa, and then with Kristoff when he proposes, and then they all sing together for a finale into Anna’s coronation. I am aware there is a duet with Anna and Kristoff in the Delue edition but the version is pretty rough and, it didn’t make it into the film so I’m not counting it.

- The Positives - 

1. The character development. I must confess that I was not a Frozen fan when it first came out. I think I saw it, wasn’t too impressed, then went to Walt Disney World in December 2014, became so over-saturated with Frozen fever literally taking over EVERYTHING, that I became annoyed and resistant. I did re-watch it several times months later to try and get back on board, but I always felt like the plot in the middle was weak, meandered with no purpose, and the whole “Anna wasn’t saved by a man” (which she was. She wouldn’t have gotten to Elsa at all without Kristoff. She would have died in the snow) was less powerful because everyone was acting like Brave didn’t happen. Like it was the first movie to have someone saved by true love through someone other than a love interest. But I’m not re-visiting that shit, I just wanna enjoy Frozen for what it is and gave me positively, which is what I’m gonna do with Frozen 2 when I cathartically post this. The reason I’m going into this is because, I wasn’t expecting strong writing with the plot of Frozen 2, because of the precedent set. But I was SO excited, so HYPE, I literally went day after opening. One thing  I WAS expecting the themes to remain true to the franchise, but we won’t discuss that again. I grew to love Elsa deeply through my own struggle with mental illness (anxiety, depression, adhd). Apparently I have a lot in common with her too. Consuming her in other forms (Frozen on Broadway, Once Upon a Time, meeting her in the Parks) deepened her character and made her more understandable. And Anna. OOF. Was not a fan at all. But I LOVE her now too.  And in this movie. WOW. They were so amazing and rich, and brave, badass, strong, flawed, relatable, and the GROWTH. The way they reacted to things, even if I didn’t like most plot points, was done so well. It really felt like them even though a huge growth jump happened. I could see how they got from A to B. The character writing (other than the things mentioned earlier) was very strong and I’m proud to say I love them so much more after this movie.

2. The music. I have never particularly liked Idina’s voice but she sounds SO amazing, unique, memorable, emotional, vulnerable, and open in both of her songs. 

“Show Me” is personally my favorite, and that whole sequence was just fucking breath-taking, the message so special. Seeing her break down all her walls during that song journey was one of the best parts of the movie. I’ve been dealing with A LOT lately, and this song really just made me feel like things might work out if I continue to be strong and believe in myself, if only for a few minutes.

“Into the Unknown” was such a great tease as being the best Elsa song, and I love that they added that wacky Norwegian singer Aurora in there. I just didn’t particularly like some of the lyrics about Elsa feeling like she didn’t belong. Explained above. 

Olaf’s “This is Fine” song had me smiling so big and is quite literally an eternal mood. *insert Brooklyn 99 “I’m such a Samantha”.gif* “Some Things Never Change” was a great intro song, I love when the 4 get to duet together, though some of Elsa’s lyrics, again, not a fan. 

Anna’s song, despite the things mentioned above, was honestly the most powerful song to me. It’s not something that makes me feel good, or something I will be able to listen to often. But, as someone who struggles with depression and finding the motivation to do anything when something scary or terrible happens, this song was so sososososoosososoososo fucking important to hear. I was crying. I started crying when Olaf poofed and I kept crying through this song.

But by far, the greatest part of this movie, was Kristoff’s 90′s Poison-inspired power ballad. I was fucking CRYING with laughter. SO so good. I have been waiting for a song for Jonathan Groff and this was NOT a disappointment. The backup singers. The imagery! THE BACKUP SINGERS.

3. The beauty. It was just beautiful. Like I don’t know what else to say. The animation was gorgeous. Stunning. I’m in awe.

Other things:

- Olaf giving the recap to the Northumbra

- THAT scene with Anna and Olaf

- Elsa’s hair journey

- ELSAMAREN RIGHTS

- ELSA TAMING THE NOKK

-  When Kristoff finally proposes

- KRISTOFF’S FINAL LOOK. A WHOLE SNACK.

- BRUNI. BRUNI IS BABY.

- The fact that Elsa’s sexuality was left open ended, with the possibility for Elsamaren to be a thing. If they couldn’t outright make her gay, I think this was a good way to keep everyone happy. You could really continue her story anywhere.

Like I said earlier, I’m gonna get over this super fast. It’s Disney, and I’m not trying to get all riled up for months like I did over some TRULY terrible writing. I just wanted to get my annoyances out. I’ve already listened to this soundtrack 6 times in a row, have learned the lyrics to show yourself, and am almost in the mood to see it again. Maybe in a little bit.

Anyways, THAT IS ALL OF IT FOR NOW. I may add more BS later. If  you disagree, that’s fine, but I’m not really going to fight with people about this. I just wanted to get my thoughts out and reach out to other people who were maybe a little disappointed.

[joannalannister]

Have you written anything on Jaime's decision at the end of AFFC? Because it's so associated with "Jaime breaking free of toxic Lannister (especially Cersei)" and I just didn't get that vibe from it?

Hi! I don’t think I’ve ever written anything about it because this topic is the wankiest of wank bait, but yeah, like you, I’ve personally never felt that Jaime was “breaking free” of the toxicity of House Lannister from his chapters in AFFC/ADWD. 

(I don’t know who or what you’re quoting in this ask, and I mean no offense to whoever is saying that. This is just my opinion on Jaime’s FeastDance chapters and obviously some people interpret it differently and that’s cool. I’m really not looking for wank here.)

So when you say “Jaime’s decision at the end of AFFC” I’m assuming you mean this one?

“No, my lord. The bird was from King’s Landing. I took the liberty … I did not know …” He held the letter out. 

Jaime read it in the window seat, bathed in the light of that cold white morning. Qyburn’s words were terse and to the point, Cersei’s fevered and fervent. Come at once, she said. Help me. Save me. I need you now as I have never needed you before. I love you. I love you. I love you. Come at once. 

Vyman was hovering by the door, waiting, and Jaime sensed that Peck was watching too. “Does my lord wish to answer?” the maester asked, after a long silence. 

A snowflake landed on the letter. As it melted, the ink began to blur. Jaime rolled the parchment up again, as tight as one hand would allow, and handed it to Peck. “No,” he said. “Put this in the fire.”

To me, this passage reflects how Jaime really doesn’t have the answers, at least right now: “He found himself wondering what his father would do to feed the realm, before he remembered that Tywin Lannister was dead.”

Cersei makes herself plain: “I love you. I love you. I love you.”

But how does Jaime feel about Cersei? Does he hate her? (And speaking of feelings, what does Jaime feel toward his father, who told him that love was useless? And what of Tyrion, the brother he loved? And what of Br*enne, a true knight from the stories come to life?) Can Jaime even help Cersei? Does he love her? (“The question is, who are you?”) (”Would you sooner have a father or a chair, lad? Jaime wished he knew the answer.”) Can he save her? Does he love her? Does he need her? Does he love her?

Jaime’s a whole mess of conflicted emotions right now, and he wishes things could be like they were:

There was a time, not long ago, when he might have been out making snowballs with the best of them, to fling at Tyrion when he waddled by, or slip down the back of Cersei’s gown. You need two hands to make a decent snowball, though.

But Jaime has only “One hand, clasped tight around the sword hilt. Only one” and really, literally, Jaime has no answers at the moment. So he delays, he demurs. “Put this in the fire.” He is not ready to answer Cersei yet.

“The sooner we are done with Riverrun, the sooner I’ll be back at Cersei’s side.” What Jaime would do then he did not know.

Consider:

“There is sitting and there is sitting, […] Each one [Tywin/Robb] waits for the other to move”

and:

Cersei gave him a lingering look. “You know,” she said, “for a moment you [Jaime] sounded quite like Father.”

I think you also have to consider the context of this decision. The maester reads his mail, and Jaime’s squire who admires and adores him “was watching too” so how could Jaime respond, even if he did have answers? ”Would you sooner have a father or a chair, lad? Jaime wished he knew the answer.” // “The question is, who are you?” // “We are not Targaryens!”

Also, everyone believes that Jaime is still a fearsome swordsman. I don’t think Cersei (or most people, for that matter) realizes that Jaime can’t be her champion. If Jaime were to champion her, Cersei would lose her trial (bad), and Jaime’s secret would be revealed (also bad). Jaime’s relying on his reputation. (And Genna said Jaime wasn’t Tywin’s true heir. Heh.) 

How can Jaime explain that he cannot help Cersei, cannot save her, and in a letter, no less? A letter read/written by Vyman, who served Edmure Tully, and Hoster before him? A letter that could easily be intercepted? No, he could not give Cersei an explanation in his letter. He could only give her a refusal, and that would infuriate her. (Does he love her? Does he love her? Does he love her?) 

He says these things in ADWD:

Past time this was ended, thought Jaime Lannister. With Riverrun now safely in Lannister hands, Raventree was the remnant of the Young Wolf’s short-lived kingdom. Once it yielded, his work along the Trident would be done, and he would be free to return to King’s Landing. To the king, he told himself, but another part of him whispered, to Cersei.

He would have to face her, he supposed. Assuming the High Septon had not put her to death by the time he got back to the city. “Come at once,” she had written, in the letter he’d had Peck burn at Riverrun. “Help me. Save me. I need you now as I have never needed you before. I love you. I love you. I love you. Come at once.” Her need was real enough, Jaime did not doubt. As for the rest … she’s been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know … Even if he had gone back, he could not hope to save her. She was guilty of every treason laid against her, and he was short a sword hand.

(^^This “She was guilty of every treason…” sort of makes me worried, as if Jaime is perhaps deflecting all the blame for his own treasons onto Cersei, like it doesn’t take two to tango….) 

Anyways … I personally wouldn’t describe this as Jaime ~breaking free~ of the Lannister regime when a part of him is looking forward to returning to Cersei. 

But I think there’s another part of Jaime that doesn’t want to return to Cersei, which is why he so readily jaunts off with Br*enne to chase his dreams of true knighthood. 

That’s the thing about Jaime imo. He’s a man divided. Torn between Lannister crimson and Kingsguard white, between his (older) sister and his baby brother, between Cersei and Br*enne, between one vow and another, between his loyalty to the Lannister regime and his aspirations of true knighthood. 

“So many vows … they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or the other.“

Jaime’s the middle child, Beauty and Beast both. We first meet him wearing black, but he’s renowned for his kingsguard white, but allegedly “it was that white cloak that soiled” Jaime and reduced him to this grey liminality. He vacillates back and forth, an ever swinging pendulum. One moment he is angered that Gregor would smash Pia’s teeth in, another moment fantasizing that he “smashed his sister’s teeth to splinters with his golden hand, just as Gregor Clegane had done to poor Pia.” 

I know I’ve talked about this before, but it’s like Jaime is trying to ride two horses in the Riverlands, and he can’t ride two horses. He’s trying to hold on to everything, Cersei and Tyrion, honor and glory, all that, but now he has only one hand, and he can’t hold on to two things at once any more. “Yet soon or late in every man’s life comes a day when it is not easy, a day when he must choose.”

But Jaime hasn’t come to that choosing yet. “Throw this in the fire.”

In ADWD we see the pendulum swing toward Br*enne, but what will happen in TWOW? How will Jaime feel when he learns his true knight has lied to him, and that even true knights can be grey? I imagine Jaime will feel betrayed. I suspect a second litany of betrayal for Br*enne, analogous to the one for Cersei: “… she’s been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know …" 

“False as fool’s gold.” 

After escaping Stoneheart, Jaime will go to King’s Landing at last:

Once he found the Blackfish, he would be free to return to King’s Landing, where he belonged. My place is with my king. With my son. 

But I think Jaime arrives to find Tommen dead, and Cersei fled with Myrcella to her last stronghold, Casterly Rock, since KL is about to be destroyed, entirely. And Jaime will have failed yet another king. 

Nothing in AFFC/ADWD suggests to me that Jaime’s abandoned the Lannister regime, despite how angry he is at Cersei. He still supports Tommen, and I will bet money that Jaime follows Cersei to CR after the wildfire explosion at the end of TWOW and that he eventually recognizes Myrcella as his queen in the beginning of ADOS.

And I don’t know what’s going to push Jaime over the edge, but I will bet money that Jaime will valonqar Cersei at Casterly Rock in ADOS. I think this is Jaime’s choosing, and I think he will actively choose Lannister toxicity. Strangling your sister/lover sounds like a pretty toxic thing to me, no? idk I could be wrong, who knows.

But I don’t see Jaime actively working to bring down the Lannister regime. idk what happens with Jaime after Cersei’s death, all bets are off once she dies, but at least right now, there’s nothing to me that suggests that Jaime recognizes that Tommen has no right to the Throne, that the Lannisters have no right to sieze Riverrun, no right to hunt the Blackfish, or that the entire government is corrupt, things which I think would be necessary for Jaime to distance himself from the evils of House Lannister?

(I think it’s Tyrion who is beginning to understand that the Lannister regime is wrong, he was the only one calling out Lannister bullshit even when he was in the middle of said bullshit. Tyrion hasn’t yet escaped from Tywin’s dark, toxic shadow, but I think it’s Tyrion who does that, not Jaime.) 

TLDR - nope, im like you, i dont get that vibe either. Maybe I’m wrong tho *shrug emoji*