#sry for basically puking out all my samdean thoughts here

[ruinedsam]

Thanks for you answer! I agree with everything you said, but I also think there is a shift in their relationship in their brother marriage era and that’s what I struggle to really put my finger on.

So on the one side, Dean seems to definitely trust Sam more and to allow him more power than he did s4-s10. There was always something that made Sam untrustworthy in Dean's eyes: in s4 the demon blood and his relationship to Ruby, in s5 his supposed inherent corruptibilty, in s6 his lack of soul and then his wall, in s7 his trauma, in s8 his supposed betrayal/disloyalty, in s9 his trials illness/possession/what Dean choses to interpret as lack of love and commitment to him but is actually respect, in s10 whatever I wiped most of it from my mind. But this is all in the past. In Dean's eyes there is no glaring character defect within Sam anymore past s10.

And we see that trust Sam: with the BMOL he trusts Sam’s judgement even if he thinks they are full of shit and doesn’t blame him when things go to hell. He trusts Sam to be a leader in s14. He does eventually listen to Sam and agrees to take Jack with them on a case in 13x4 or sth. When he wants to put Jack in the box, he says they both need to be on the same page. He lets Sam talk him out of getting in the malaik box as well as sacrificing Jack. In the end a lot of the important decision are on Sam.

However. None of these things, except maybe with the bmol, are a case of Dean respecting and trusting Sam’s judgement the way he did in say s1. Dean only humors Sam when he first takes Jack with on a case and while he eventually sees that Jack is not inherently evil, it’s because Jack proved himself in Dean’s eyes, Sam’s judgement alone wasn’t enough. Sam only agrees to put Jack in the box because Dean has been pressuring him all day, if I remember correctly (I only watched 14x19 once and I will never ever do it again). Dean ignores Sam’s arguments and concern both with the malaik box and sacrificing Jack, only giving in when Sam has basically an emotional breakdown and guilts him into changing his mind.

Clearly there is no actual equality here. No healthy mutual trust. Sam never goes back to confronting Dean about anything and Dean never goes back to unquestioningly trusting Sam like they did in early seasons. It feels like there is this pretense of equality and power sharing going on in the Dabb era that might superficially give the impression things are more healthy between Sam and Dean. (Which I think is the result of Dabb wanting to dial down both the brother angst and the brother weirdness but that’s not the point here.) In a way this is actually more insidious because their fucked-upness is less apparent than in mid seasons in which Dean was very obviously and overtly emotionally abusing Sam.

But. I also don’t think Sam has 0% power. It’s not as clear-cut as Dean has all the power and Sam has none to me. I think Dean does trust Sam more than he did mid seasons. And Sam can get Dean to change his mind and do what Sam wants. It’s just not a matter of trust or respect – Sam has to weaponize his and Dean’s relationship, challenging the core of Dean’s nature, what really makes him who he is, namely his love and commitment to Sam (Why don’t you believe in us?/Would you trade me too?) to do so.

I keep wondering: to what degree is Sam aware of this? Are these two instances calculation or just pure desperation? Would this still work if Sam did it more often? Would Sam exercise more power in this relationship if he realized he had the ability to do so?

And that’s what I keep changing my mind about basically depending on my mood...

Don't feel pressured to answer this soon, I know you still have a bunch of asks from yesterday :) It's just that I read meta I wrote some time ago and found myself disagreeing with my past self. I really keep changing my mind about the way I view Sam and Dean's relationship in late seasons, about how equal it is and especially how much power Sam has in this relationship, so I was interested to hear your thoughts on this 👀

The only way I know to explain the equality, if any, in their relationship is through comparisons between S1-S2 and pretty much any season from 8 onwards

S1 Dean treats Sam like a person and genuinely feels for and with his brother: blame me for Jessica's death, clock me one for not trusting you earlier, you can't blame yourself for what happened, you're not evil, I won't kill you- screw dad and his last wishes etc etc

• S5 Dean takes a slight shift and goes against the "You're not evil" statement by saying to Sam's face that he's one of the things that they hunt- the notable first step to his attitude change

Result: Sam goes ahead with his plan to make his brother proud (of him and his powers) and fails

• S8 Dean goes against the "you can't blame yourself" statement by blaming him for not looking for him in purgatory, blaming for trying to leave hunting, for settling down with a girl and whatnot

Result: Sam takes everything hurled at him quietly with barely two words of argument. Towards the end, he's violently suicidal because he thinks he let Dean down

• S9 Dean tricks Sam into posession and lies and lies about it for months probably and when Sam does find out, there's no guilt or even a mumbled apology from Dean. He thinks he's right

Result: Sam backs away and distances himself but eventually is pulled back in because Dean took on the mark and the season ends with Sam forced to set his justified anger aside

I could go on about how the situation just worsens with every season but do you see a pattern yet?

He goes from "I'll make Dean proud" to "I let Dean down" to "Dean died because of me" (you can't tell me Sam doesn't blame himself for Dean's S9 death because Dean literally said "I thought you wouldn't do the same for me" before dying. That ought to fuel guilt)

When I talk about equals in any relationship I would want active involvement of both parties and mutual working out on conflicts. Not one shutting down while the other flares up (Sam and Dean respectively)

Post S7 Dean's word is always final- he even uses the word "dictatorship" for his decisions. At one point I remember him saying something along the lines of "I know you don't approve of this but that's the way it's gonna be" and his word is final

As the seasons progressed Sam has lesser and lesser say in their major plans and eventually it went down to zero

And when I think about Sam's power in their relationship, he didn't even have a say over what happens to his body (Gadreel posession) or his life (moc!dean makes the call to kill him and sam fights a little before dropping to his knees and letting it happen)

So are Sam and Dean equals? No. Not with the way Sam shuts down and Dean makes the decisions for him and pushes back on almost every one of Sam's advice

Does Sam hold any power? Not if it can be helped by Dean. A man who can't even have his own body to himself is not someone who'll be able to influence any decisions