#spn 8x17 goodbye stranger
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thecascast · 7 months ago
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We (Ilse) finally bring you our discussion on The Evergreen Episode 8x17 Goodbye Stranger. Please forgive us (Ilse) as we (Ilse) are only human, and so so bad at schedules. This one's a banger though so hit play!
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frontseathater · 22 days ago
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"cas, it's me.
we're family.
we need you,
i need you."
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strawlessandbraless · 7 months ago
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Oh sweet Dean
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Fear not, for it was only the power of friendship
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So hetero bro
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zer0expektation · 5 months ago
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realism & lighting study with The destiel tomb scene™
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+ bloody ver.
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++
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8.17 - GOODBYE STRANGER
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shirtlesssammy · 6 months ago
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Dean and Cas every day not often enough -- 43/?
Supernatural 8x17//Goodbye Stranger
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hoarderheart · 10 days ago
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Okay, I know that “it’s actually originally meant to show the passage of time instead of being bi colors” and all that…disregarding how that’s such a vibrant pink and a harsh, rigid, and very linear gradient for a supposed sunset, and that it’s already night (not sunset or twilight) at the crypt, whatever.
But regardless, I think putting a suspiciously bi-colored gradient behind cross-shaped bars, in the climax scene of the arc where Angel of the Lord Castiel’s heavenly biological family—who considers his deep connection with a man named Dean Winchester to be “corrupt,” as it is something that pulls him away from Heaven and is therefore forbidden and punishable under their rules—brainwashes him into detaching himself away from and almost killing said man, after they have chosen to introduce a new, very clinical set design for Heaven in this season for the sole purpose of having it go along with the lobotomies that they repeatedly have Cas go through for the said brainwashing, and all of this being done with the intention of having it be Dean’s CONFESSION and Cas’ LOVE for him that breaks the brainwashing and saves both of them, is—to be quite frankly—crazy, crazy work. Certainly a choice A Series of Fascinating Choices if you will.
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shallowseeker · 1 month ago
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hello there!! i’ve been searching for posts about how dean’s “i need you” in goodbye stranger feels more significant (i guess is the word?) than the original “i love you” and i was wondering what your thoughts on it were :)
I think a poet might be able to answer your ask better, so I invite my dashfam to point me to good linguistic posts.
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As for me, I'm not sure I actually consider one line more meaningful than the other, and I'm not convinced Cas would have understood "I love you" at this point in his life (mentally wounded, brainwashed, thrown around by Heaven) any better than an "I need you."
I think it's highly likely that Cas wasn't actually lying when he said he didn't know what broke the connection in the crypt. That perhaps he couldn't parse his own feelings, especially with his then-fresh mental wounds. (I have this frankly incoherent rambling about how the inability to translate the angel tablet in season 8 is in parallel to how Cas can't read his own emotions/heart. I'll rewrite it to make it make more sense... someday.)
On the other hand, unlike Cas, I think Dean's I love you / I need you line does imply that Dean has worked through his own turbulent confusion with "why Cas feels different than everyone else." We see the line of questioning introduced in The Born-Again Identity, with Dean pondering aloud why he can't shake this and insisting that "of course (the reason) matters!" Dean realized back then that Cas was different. It was charged with... something.
Then, we see such jilted behavior from Dean in the episodes after this... both with Naomi's "I only wish he felt the same way," and Dean's silent treatment towards Cas in the bunker. It seems to me that Dean knows his own heart and is frustrated trying to "read" Cas's intentions, especially with how Heaven keeps wounding Cas over and over, rendering Cas psychologically unable to find his own footing (which is why Cas flees; all that brainwashing is too topsy-turvey for him to get his own bearings and directions sorted out).
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But I think what interests me most about this season with regards to "I need you," is in the continued motif of Dean's outstretched hand.
We first see Dean's outstretched hand introduced in Purgatory, and it is THE through-line for much of the season. Even the scenes and relationships that aren't about Cas... are about Cas. When Cas throws Dean's hand away, Dean is floored—wounded to the point of rewriting his own memory. After he learns the truth, he's left wondering if he's misunderstood everything that was growing between him and Cas.
But Dean's "I need you / I love you" speaks to his consistently reaching out to Cas anyway, despite all the odds and despite Cas's numerous rejections. Dean just keeps reaching for Cas. He can't help it! (Dean is holding out hope that they do want each other, once the interference and obstacles are removed, that maybe they'll see that in each other... if they just get the chance.)
The motif of hands is so fascinating in season 8, because it's echoed in other relationships, too. For example, when Sam loses faith in himself, he injures his own hand, which Dean bandages in an echo of Church as "the small family supporting each other," against a gorgeous background of the Church as "the corporate megapower," with the angels falling. (It's a beautiful contrast of the different human and angel families.)
There's also how Cas cuts off the hand of (romantic) love, The Cupid, and how the Cupid willingly lets it happen. She extends her hand and lets Cas cut if off, the same way Dean was extending his hand to Cas in the crypt, thinking "I love you. I forgive you," and saying "I need you. We're family."
///Note: It's also like Theee Mixtape: (Love) is a gift. You keep those.
Reaching out is about love, acceptance, and connection. While Dean is doing all this reaching, Cas spends the season being psychologically wounded and threatened by Heaven, running for safety, and then--cutting out hearts and cutting off hands.
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Yes, so when I look at the Crypt scene, and I see Cas twist and break Dean's arms and Dean is still REACHING... that is what fascinates me the most.
In this season, Dean is trying to help Cas at his own expense, even though Dean wants them to be together, he's helping Cas "fix Heaven," even though Heaven is going to take Cas away from Dean.
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^ Here they sit, no longer in the kitchen-of-intimacy but in the bar-of-friendship, lamenting their inability to be in a romantic relationship together.
Dean knows he's in love with Cas at this point, I think, and while he suspected Cas had feelings for him, Dean withdraws, trying to respect Cas's space and support him in his chosen path of permanent, painful separation. (Dean knows how it is, of course, to support your family at the expense of your own personal happiness.)
Little does Dean know, that Cas's main motivation for fixing Heaven is to protect his human family. Metatron echoes it, and in The Great Escapist Naomi underlines to Cas that Heaven would not hesitate hurt his human loved ones.
METATRON: At the very least, it would st – [dog barking in distance, another warning] It would stop the fighting up there from spilling out down here, which will happen. It always does.
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(In her pursuit of Cas, Naomi destroys the humans in the family diner in The Great Escapist.)
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But by the time Cas is actually ready to take Dean's hand, Gadreel engineers a reversal of the outstretched hand, kicking Cas out of the bunker, in a parallel to Dean from season 8, Cas is the one left thinking that he's misunderstood everything.
This is underlined by his soliloquy to the baby. In an episode where it's shown that "medic angels" react to emotional pain as readily as physical, we're left to wonder: is this how angels were trained to deaden their emotions in the first place?
No wonder they might not recognize what they're feeling. No wonder Cas has struggled to connect to his own emotions whether he's human or angel. Maybe it takes "becoming closer to human" for angels to connect with that deadened part of their hearts/minds.
CASTIEL (to the baby): Nobody told you. Nobody explained. You're just … shoved out kicking and screaming into this human life, without any idea why any of it feels the way it feels, or why this confusion, which feels like it's … a hair's breadth (The baby stops crying.) from terror or pain. You know, just when you think you do understand, it'll turn out you're wrong. You didn't understand anything at all. Guess that's just how it is when you're new at this. You know, it wasn't that long ago when all I'd need to do to ease your pain was touch you.
I think it's so fascinating that Dean and Cas are framed as (romantically) reaching for each other over and over,. Not to mention, with Dean wearing "the handprint" on his shoulder, because Dean's a character with his heart obviously on his sleeve... if you dare to REALLY look at him anyway (as Dean invited Mary to do, to see him).
In Dean and Cas's fights, they tend to break each others' arms/hands, and yet... they continue to reach for each other... in parallel.
x - x - x - x - x - x - x
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ADDITION: That family needs each other is a theme that is used over and over in this series. We are shown loss and love in almost every form (familial, friendship, etc. Ex: The Chuck and Amara forgiveness speech.)
But it's the motifs around the Dean-Cas one in particular that lends an intensely romantic context that imho sets it apart from the other instances.
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what-do-i-type-here · 9 months ago
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I would just like to point out that Cas absolutely did not need to cup Dean's face like that to heal him.
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rosemariad · 2 months ago
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I've been dabbling with capcut and wanted to see if I could re-edit the crypt scene from 8x17 focusing on just Dean & Cas. Naomi pops up less only for the context of the scene.
THE ORIGINAL SCENE BELONGS TO THE CW ofc
she said to choose...us of them...more like us and him...
and Cas made his choice - what a compelling scene
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elvenlicht · 4 months ago
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icvrusxx · 10 months ago
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You know, ever since we met, ever since I pulled you out of Hell... Knowing you has changed me.
watching over me, radio company // excuses for why we failed at love, warsan shire // spn 12x19, the future // the good fight, ada limón // herakles, euripides // spn 8x17, goodbye stranger // my dearest friend and enemy, tamino // mended, anne white // spn 12x19, the future
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strawlessandbraless · 8 months ago
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Headcanon that Cas violently made out with each Dean clone until they dropped dead from sheer gay panic
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Naomi, having watched the whole thing, steps out from the shadows and remarks ‘crude but effective castiel, no hesitation, you’re ready’
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Then Dean and Cas fuck nasty in that tomb
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idjits-areus · 4 months ago
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I absolutely *love* the parallels between Dean and Cas' "I need you" and Sam and Gabriel's "I need you."
Dean and Castiel's:
Cas is being controlled by Heaven, well Naomi, and he's physically hurting Dean to get the angel tablet. At this point Dean's on his knees and begging Cas, trying to reason with him.
"Cas. Cas. I know you're in there. I know you can hear me. Cas...It's me. We're family. We need you. I need you."
The simple "I need you" is what pulled Cas out and allowed him to regain control.
The simple "I need you" that was originally scripted as "I love you."
Like, even though the words changed, we can still see it and feel it. Subtle subtext or not. Nothing's subtle about supernatural. They knew what they were doing even when they claim that they didn't.
Sam and Gabriel's:
After Ketch brings Gabriel out of Asmodesus' hands and back into the Winchester's, Gabriel doesn't talk, move, do pretty much anything. He's just kinda stuck in his own head. And you know Sam has to go and give Gabriel one of his famous little pep talks to try and get him back.
"Gabriel, you have to dig yourself out of this hole. Look, I know you think it's safer inside....And this is my life. No matter how many times I tried to fight it, this is what I was put here to do. This is where I make the world a better place. And sure, yeah, hookers in Monte Carlo sounds great, but your family needs you. Jack, your nephew, needs you. The world needs you. We need you. Gabriel, I need you."
The same "I need you" doing the same exact job here. Except for the fact that instead of Gabriel pulling a Cas, he just corrects Sam's words from hookers to porn stars. In my opinion, that's Gabriel's way of trying to hide the fact that he cares just as much as Sam does. Behind the comedy and the jokes he uses as defense mechanisms.
I know just reading words doesn't do any justice, but if you've seen the episode you know what I'm talking about when I say that Sam said it with feelings. And more than just sympathy and 'we need him to help stop Michael' feelings. Ever since Tall Tales, Sam has had *something* for this archangel. It's a shame that the writers never really explored that plot much.
It's-the parallels between the two "I need you"'s is what gets me. Like, they could've just left it with Sam and Gabriel. They could've just left it at "we need you" and everything would've been fine. No need for the "I need you." But no. Because they added it, they made Sam personally care. They made it just as emotionally charged as Dean and Cas' scene. They didn't have to do that. The only explanation I have is the writers knew what the hell they were doing. Once again, nothing is as subtle as you think on this show.
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zombiecastiell · 7 months ago
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starting pride off right with watching goodbye stranger 8x17
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and telling my mom about the original script
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shirtlesssammy · 6 months ago
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Castiel every day so often -- 48/139
Supernatural 8x17//Goodbye Stranger
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