#sorry for rambling again...Vulcans <3 I love those weirdos

[bumblingbabooshka]

YEEEESSS I loved this addition - I don't know anything about disco and I've only seen snippets and early episodes of ENT so I wasn't able to talk about them in the original post - TOTALLY forgot about how the (let's just say for the sake of clarity) Vulcan religion both Spock and Tuvok follow was something considered a dangerous fringe group in T'Pol's time. They did the same shit with Pa'nar syndrome? Vulcans LOOVE to gatekeep information. They love a little secret like their Romulan brothers, on an individual and societal level. Why do you need to know my age? Why do you need to know the cure for Pa'nar syndrome? Don't talk about the pon farr. I also didn't know that Vulcan and Romulans eventually unify into one planet again! Spock-o your dream came true~!! (Now I'm picturing Vulcans and Romulans with 'Never say Ni'Var' stickers) Also, about progress coming after large incidents - that makes so much sense given the society being outlined. Small groups can be ignored or villainized as being un-vulcan in a way larger ones can't. Why are so many Vulcans thinking 'illogically' or being 'un-vulcan'? That doesn't make sense. Are WE the illogical ones? I personally imagine Vulcan society (general) being very resistant of and quick to change in equal measures. Vulcans find strength in appearing as a wholly unified group and don't seem (again, generally) to like being on the fringes. They're a society that pushes fitting in over standing out - being in the 'in' group is valued highly, whether that group is for change or against it. The above kind of thinking might naturally lead to bullying being seen as 'logical' or 'inevitable' by one's father...of course they were bullying you, you were acting emotionally. On the other hand - bullying is not peaceful behavior and it seems to imply emotion. Perhaps the bullying is un-Vulcan...so then you should not respond, or you are just as much to blame. But isn't it logical to respond when provoked? No, it's emotional. But- etcetc. Logic is just as malleable as any other um...'thing.' Like, Honor or whatever one word thing Humans have. It can serve many people and agendas and is subjective. Logic isn't a one size fits all black and white thing - it's just what Vulcans try to follow instead of emotion. If Logic were objective, all Vulcans would think and act exactly the same, but they don't! And I think it's also why there's such a heavy interest in philosophy on Vulcan. They're a people who have to think about themselves and their behavior and what should be done a lot. They have to meditate, to control themselves, to disregard instinct, and they have to learn to do all these things consistently every single day from birth until death. They're a species that live in a very different way from anyone else we encounter, where their natural way of life is (in some manner of speaking) unnatural to them. As Tuvok said, "Do not mistake composure for ease." It's probably extremely difficult but it's necessary, and it makes sense that people who live that way might grow to look down on others who follow the emotions that nearly led to Vulcan's own ruin. I can see how it might seem foolish to them and how a paternalistic and arrogant cultural attitude might grow from that. To Vulcans, they have literally achieved world peace after being on the brink of nuclear destruction. It makes sense that they're proud of that and I think pride is the inverse of shame in that there's also a lot of it in Vulcan society. It's like a reward <3 Vulcan society has changed a LOT throughout the years. Even before T'Pol it'd already sustained an extremely radical shift from a very war-focused and emotional people to the Vulcans we all see in canon. And even in canon their society changes from T'Pol to Spock to Tuvok. It's fascinating to see the ways Vulcan society changes throughout the franchise and how it doesn't!

With regard to that last post about Vulcans, it's so interesting to me that Vulcans ARE so hidebound around tradition even when that tradition is illogical or harmful. Women are treated equally in everyday life but how marriage operates is tradition and will not be changed. The marriage tradition of a woman being unable to ever point blank reject a man she's been betrothed to suggests that there used to be a more widespread societal issue with misogyny that's since been (seemingly) eradicated AND YET the tradition of marriage is tradition, and so it cannot change. When T'Pol asks Trip what she should do about (essentially) not wanting to marry Koss, she rebuts everything he says with the fact that it's tradition and her individual feelings don't matter when faced with tradition. "I have an obligation. [If you'd spent time around Vulcans you'd understand that] our commitment to tradition outweighs personal choice." When Trip says that people change she says "Vulcans don't. My obligation is to my culture, my heritage, it has to take precedence." Though one might think LOGIC is the most important aspect of Vulcan culture, it seems that TRADITION outweighs logic or, maybe more accurately, that Vulcans have decided as a species that to follow tradition is logical since they are a logical people and to do otherwise is emotional and therefore illogical. Another tradition that Vulcans seem to practice across the board without question is the kahs-wan, where you literally send your child out into the desert to survive for ten days without food, water, or weapons in Vulcan's forge where there are predatory wild animals and electric sandstorms. It's a test that can be taken multiple times without shame over having failed the first but I'm certain that there HAVE to be like...kids absolutely dying because of this ritual, right? I'm sure if a child is injured or dying slowly there's a way to save them but I'm also sure that 'cracking your head open' or 'being eaten by a sehlat' are pretty common ways to die if you're a starving and dehydrated child stumbling around a desert. And it's just a 'maturity test', it's NOT necessary and yet they continue to follow it both as children and as parents. Speaking of parents, parents exercise a LOT of control over their children in Vulcan society. We see in ENT that Koss' parents are the ones who arranged the marriage and it's them who T'Pol speaks to instead of Koss when she wants to negotiate the terms of her marriage. Both Spock and Tuvok had their careers planned out for them by their parents (and though both rebelled, Tuvok in canon frames this rebellion as foolish...not seeing the forest for the trees, being too young to understand his parents' vision.) For Spock, it makes sense bc he's a politician's son and one of the most important figures on Vulcan but Tuvok is just like...a normal citizen of Vulcan. So then in Vulcan society it's normal for both your marriage and career to be decided on by your parents and if you're a woman there's no getting out of the marriage thing unless you and a lover are willing to risk a life. And if you object to any of that hm...seems mighty illogical of you. And disowning your child ALSO seems to be a pretty common Vulcan practice.