#some of this might be off but i very much think how mean klav is directly correlates to how personal a case is for him

[jinxedshapeshifter]

I'm a bit late responding to this but you can apply the same thing to Turnabout Academy. Klavier asks Athena and Apollo to find the Gavinners banner after the reveal that the Themis Academy banner has blood on it. Like it comes off as him being self-centered at first, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume he knew exactly why it disappeared (and he does imply that it's connected to Courte's murder, because he says "You never know — it might just be connected to the case at hand." Athena's reaction is "Really? Or does he just want his banner back?").

It's really interesting. I feel like both the Ace Attorney fandom and the characters in the games he shows up in vastly underestimate his intelligence, and he uses it to his advantage because he's incredibly intelligent. He's not quite at Sholmes's level, but he's still incredibly intelligent, to the point he did know something was wrong when Daryan missed his cue, and he did realize there might be something more to his banner disappearing after finding out about the Themis banner. It's made pretty obvious in Turnabout Corner that he's at least 3 steps ahead of Apollo at all times, I wouldn't be surprised if that applies to Turnabout Academy too.

It makes it a little funny that he doesn't really clarify why he wants Apollo to pick out the missed cue in Guilty Love in Turnabout Serenade or find the Gavinners banner in Turnabout Academy, like he's just letting anyone who interacts with him think he's an egocentric asshole who doesn't care about people being murdered when, in reality, he's at least 3 steps ahead of literally everyone else, including detectives, which feels like it lends more credence to my original point of the origin of "Klavier someone was murdered" being Klavier masking how he feels about a situation.

He claims he "felt a conspiracy brewing" and brought in Ema as extra security for the Gavinners' concert in Turnabout Serenade, and it didn't prevent a man from being murdered under his nose at his concert. His mentor was murdered in Turnabout Academy, and he's even further into the whole "I'll pretend to be an egocentric asshole to cope with this because I don't know how else to deal with this" thing (which I really want to analyze but I'll do it later) than he was in Turnabout Serenade. Klavier, by Ace Attorney prosecutor standards, is super friendly. If a case is personal to him he gets mean and uncharacteristically aggressive.

This is super obvious in Turnabout Academy in my opinion, where he was just being an asshole to Apollo for most of the case (and I do mean that, because there were points where I was surprised by how much of a dick Klavier was being. Granted, he's not blatantly mean the entire case, but he's absolutely mean enough that it stood out to me). Like it's obviously teasing, but it's so much meaner than it was in AA4 frankly. Granted, it's also obvious at points in Turnabout Serenade (like how he basically bribes Apollo into helping him pinpoint Daryan's missed cue by saying he'll help Apollo investigate his case if Apollo helps find the missed cue), but I think by virtue of how personal Turnabout Academy is to him compared to Turnabout Serenade (at least at first, because by the end of Turnabout Serenade it becomes incredibly obvious just how personal the case is to Klavier), he's more of a dick.

I obviously might be misremembering cases, but I don't remember Klavier being quite as mean to Apollo in Turnabout Corner or Turnabout Succession as he was in Turnabout Serenade or Turnabout Academy, and I very much think it's because he was coping with the cases being personal to him by getting mean with his teasing. It is also worth noting that he didn't really snap at Vera until he realized Kristoph was involved in everything. At that point he got incredibly aggressive to the point of visibly scaring Vera, which, when you first play the game, comes off as him just being desperate to find out what happened, and then you replay it and realize that the case just got incredibly personal to him (like when I replayed AJ:AA, I hit that point in Turnabout Succession and I think I actually cried because that's the exact moment he realizes Kristoph was involved, and how exactly Kristoph knew about the forged diary page).

Basically, Klavier is (almost always) a few steps ahead of Apollo (which I really don't think is talked about enough to be honest), and the second he realizes just how personal a case is to him, he has a tendency to get aggressive, and the more personal the case is to him the meaner he gets (which I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen anyone talk about honestly, it explains so much of Klavier's behavior and very much holds the implication that it's a coping mechanism of some sort).

Anyway, TL;DR: Klavier's more intelligent than I think people realize, he seems to use the fact that everyone around him seems to think he's just self-centered to his advantage, and his aggression very much comes off as a coping mechanism when you consider specifically when he tends to get aggressive/mean.

I feel like something that isn't discussed enough is the possibility that Klavier’s behavior in both Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies is a coping mechanism. Like I very much think that at least part of what we see of Klavier is a mask. I don't think it's fully a mask, but I 100% think "Klavier someone was murdered" being a meme comes from Klavier masking trauma and how he does so. Not that I don't think he's silly or a perfectionist normally, but I think he purposely plays some of his personality traits up if something happens to someone close to him or at one of his events, unless he hits a breaking point (which he very much did in Turnabout Succession, because Kristoph pushed him to that point). Like he's a rockstar, he has an image to uphold so he probably feels like he HAS to mask trauma and sadness and depression, which is the unfortunate case for a lot of celebrities irl too (especially when they're young).

Klavier actively masking the trauma caused by Turnabout Serenade and Turnabout Academy would explain a lot of his behavior tbh.

[turnabout4what]

Chapter 15 of Old Flames Die Hard is up which means a lot to me since I first sketched out the idea for this scene two years ago! 

Just to show how much changes between an initial idea (and keep in mind that most ideas get thrown out-- this is one of the gems that actually kept a lot of dialogue exactly the same) and the end product, I took some pictures of my sketchbook and added them here!

Spoilers for my fic under the cut!

Here are the actual pages: I transcribed them underneath, just in case it’s blurry or you can’t read my handwriting.

Original Text:

K: Apollo! Are you okay? Are you dying? Do you need to go to the ER? A: I’m fine, Klav. *looking at bloody hands* Just a little banged up. K: Trucy, what on earth did he do? A: What makes you think this was MY fault? T: Oh, he almost drowned. As in passed out underwater almost drowned. D: And that was after we got pushed off a cliff, wandered around a dark cave for two hours, and fell off another cliff. K: This is precisely why I worry about you. A: I’m not even going to attempt to defend myself. D: This a friend of yours, son? *Klavier’s cheek is pressed to the side of Apollo’s head, and his hands are wrapped around his waist, pulling Apollo’s back toward him. Apollo’s arms are crossed.* A: “Friend.” Right. D: Well, you sure don’t look like enemies… K: Client of yours? A: Calling him my client is about as accurate as calling you my friend. T: Polly! Don’t tell me Klavier doesn’t know who Dhurke is, either! K, eyes filling with recognition: Dhurke. As in, Dhurke Sahdmadhi. The leader of the revolution in Khura’in. Your foster dad. Possibly a registered terrorist. A: Do you see what kind of day I’ve had? K: Hasn’t it been a decade and a half since you last saw him?! What is he doing here? A: Yeah… Long story. Just know that almost dying was one of the least stressful events of the day. D, shoving hand in K’s direction: Well, it’s certainly nice to meet someone who knows who I am. Apollo here doesn’t seem to be very forthcoming about his past. Or present. I still don’t believe I’ve gotten your name. K: (I can’t recall ever feeling like I had small hands until now…) Prosecutor Klavier Gavin. D: PROSECUTOR?! T: Is Klavier trying to intimidate your dad? A: Yep. D: This isn’t the one with the samurai sword, is it? I’m beginning to see why you aren’t friends. K: Nein, you’d know the samurai if you saw him. And Herr Forehead and I are great friends. (I’m beginning to see where Apollo picked up some of his strange facial expressions… And social density.) D: Now that you mention it, he did mention a prosecutor that called him Herr Forehead… But it didn’t seem like you were friends… K: What exactly did you tell him? A: That you’re annoying and you like to give me a hard time. K: I suppose I do like to give you a hard time. *Trucy laughing* A: (Can he NOT make sex jokes in front of Trucy and my DAD?)

Now, comparing it to the dialogue that got published:

K: Are you okay?! A: I’m fine. Just a little banged up. K: What did you do? T: Oh, he almost drowned. As in, passed out underwater almost drowned. D: And that was after we got pushed off a cliff, wandered around a dark cave for two hours, and fell off another cliff. A: Sorry. I wasn’t expecting our investigation to be so dangerous. K: That’s okay. D: This a friend of yours, son? A: Friend. Riiight. D: Well, you sure don’t look like enemies… K: Client? A: I mean… technically, yes. In the same sense that you and I are technically friends. T: Polly! Don’t tell me Klavier doesn’t know who Dhurke is, either! K: Dhurke? As in… He’s…  D: Dhurke Sahdmadhi. I’m a rebel by trade. Maybe you’ve heard of me. K: You’re the man who raised Apollo. D: Aw, son! And here I thought you hadn’t told anyone about me! Well, it’s certainly nice to meet someone who knows who I am. Apollo doesn’t seem to be very forthcoming about his past. Or his present. I still don’t know who you are. K (in description): Klavier had never felt like he had small hands before, but he did now-- this man had bear paws. Even so, a cold fury swelled from within him that overpowered the initial fear-- this man wasn’t strong; he was a coward who had abandoned a nine-year-old kid in a foreign country and left him to fend for himself. K: High Prosecutor Klavier Gavin. D: PROSECUTOR?! T: Is Klavier trying to intimidate your dad? A (in description): Apollo only sighed in response. K, in description: Klavier had imagined an emotionless insurgent leading a revolution through intimidation and force, but he was warm and friendly, and it was easy to see where Apollo had picked up his strange facial expressions from. And social density. D: This isn’t the one with the samurai sword, is it? I’m beginning to see why you aren’t friends. K: Nein, you’d know the samurai if you saw him. And I’ll have you know that Herr Forehead and I are great friends. D: Oh, this is the prosecutor who calls you Herr Forehead. K: What did you tell him about me, exactly? A: I was just describing different prosecutors I’d faced. Pretty much all I told him is that you loved to call me names and give me a hard time. K: You might want to rephrase that.

Bonus: Here’s the most recent drawing I’ve done of Apollo and Klavier, since my ability as an artist has changed in the last 2 years, too!

[wowowwild]

I ended up writing a lot of thoughts so I put them under the cut.

Yes!!! I think Kristoph must have been able to have a lot of patience when it suited him, or maybe not patience, really, but putting on hi 'Coolest Defense in the West' persona at pretty much all times. You might see an eye twitch and hear something that is a thinly veiled insult. (Or not so thinly veiled, Apollo is clearly desperate to impress during that first case and Kristoph is lowkey roasting him under the guise of advice so...)

But like, I feel like Kristoph would have actually had to be a decent mentor, bc Phoenix doesn't do basically any mentoring for Apollo and Apollo can handle himself in court. He's there if needed I guess, but he's still in his overly cryptic era (as opposed to the rest of the time when he's only minorly cryptic) and tbh I don't think Apollo really likes him that much anyway. Cares about him after some time, maybe, but not really liking him. One thing I will say in defense of Phoenix here is that he does try to help Apollo be more confident, so maybe that's the only thing he thinks needs improving, which would pretty much be correct.

So I think Kristoph was decent, and I think he would have had to be decent with Klavier as well. Probably distant towards the end, but not anything you could clock as bad at first glance, other than 'wow that guy is kind of bitchy'. I think Kristoph was probably very manipulative, though. Apollo seems to be pretty susceptible to manipulation from the right people which would be a positive trait to a chronic manipulator, so if you subscribe to that, then that is plus number one.

I have to wonder if Kristoph picked up on Apollo's ability. Kristoph is definitely the type to play with fire as we can see with his relationship with Phoenix, so if he thought he could manipulate Apollo good enough, or if he thought he had mastered his own tics well enough, then Apollo would be a very useful tool, which could be plus number two.

And yes I am so upset about the wasted potential bc it was going somewhere but now we have to speculate about what was and what could have been bc the new writers didn't read the source material.

We can guess a little bit if we take any of the official art that doesn't contradict canon as canon that it was somewhat pleasant even, but if it information that doesn't come strictly from the games, I am hesitant to consider it as fact.

Of course, when the time came, Apollo told Kristoph to testify and then got him arrested, and there are a couple ways to interpret this. First is that he straight up did not care about Kristoph which is one I see a lot. I can understand that take, I don't think there's anyway to outright disprove it bc we see so little of them. I think if we had a proper Apollo Justice trilogy we would have seen flashbacks of them, maybe even entire flashback cases shortly before where Apollo is co-counsel or just at the bench with him. We definitely would have gotten more of something.

But really you can see when the doubt starts to plant itself. Apollo is still a huge fan boy of Phoenix Wright Turnabout Terror and when He leads Apollo to conclusion after conclusion... He is so nervous and it catches him off guard, but at this point he still really does trust Phoenix and so he really has to find out who is wright. He has to know or he'll never have peace. He begins to suspect, and even once he knows the truth he's still pleading in his head that Kristoph will say something to discredit all of it, something to make it all make sense. And he doesn't. This doesn't necessarily mean he cared about Kristoph at all, but it certainly would have been a betrayal. And also I do think he cared a little. This super top notch attorney who gave him a chance. You're going to feel some type of way about that.

I think we can get on to your Klav point now. Bc you're right, he knew nothing about Klavier at all. I'm not sure exactly how long Apollo was working for Kristoph, but it must have been a bit at least. I always hc it as a year or two while he was doing law school and then graduated and passed the bar while working there. It would be weird to me if it had only been a little while, but it's certainly possible it was only a month or two, I'm not really sure how becoming a lawyer works in Japan.

So Kristoph seems like kind of a private person in general, but he was ok with telling Apollo that Phoenix was a 'good friend' and not just an acquaintance or something, so he might be that type to bring personal stuff up if it's relevant? There's also the thought of personal effects in his office. Tbh he doesn't seem like a super personal effects kind of guy to me personally, except for things he likes maybe, like tea and his violin (also can we talk about how both brothers display their instruments, it's not a huge similarity, but idk anyone irl who sets up instruments just to be looked at other than people who are really passionate about music which makes me wonder about Kristoph's past with music, but this is not very relevant right now.)

So anyway, he definitely doesn't have any pictures of Klavier in the office and he doesn't talk about him and this would definitely make Klavier sad. I also think Klavier maybe kind of expected that? Just with what we see of Kristoph I think that's kind of his personality, but even then, the fact that you have a brother (especially a highly successful one) usually comes up at some point. It's a very common ice breaker question.

And I think Klavier must adore his brother. I think they probably disagreed all the time and fought but that is very much sibling behavior. We can see how much Kristoph's actions affect Klavier. Their relationship is definitely unbalanced, Kristoph has all of the power. I also think it's possible at this point Klavier has distanced himself from trying so hard to be what his brother wants, but would still care about him probably more than anyone. We don't really have time for my thoughts on the brothers bc they just go one forever and maybe I'll write something some day.

But, um, yeah. I'm not really sure if I stayed even remotely on topic or if I said everything I wanted, I am constantly putting them all in the salad spinner and have soooo many thoughts but I tried to keep it contained.

Man I'm thinking about Apollos and Kristophs relationship with each other again and there is so much missed potential. I feel like if you only take their personalities into account these two don't click. Considering what kinda name Kristoph made for himself before he got charged with murder I assume it would have been very hard to get accepted as his trainee if thats the right word here. So Apollo probably was able to have really impressed him. I just want to know more about the years these two worked together! Also another thing, Apollo didn't know about Klavier at all. So imagine a scene where Klavier wonders what Kristoph said about him before they actually met only for Apollo to go "he never talked about you at all" I can imagine Klavier to get really sad upon hearing that. So much missed potential y_y