#so this shall have to suffice for now in terms of character lore

[margridarnauds]

Rip idk if I accidentally sent my last ask too early or it it got deleted before I sent it but anywho,, if you’re still bored and wanting to talk about Celtic lore, I’d love to here about grainne ni mhaille or Brigid of tuatha de danann? Alternately, what’s one of your fav stories?

I was in the middle of typing up a response and apparently SOMETHING happened to it because it totally disappeared on me. 

ANYWAY, 

I can talk about both of them, to different degrees. 

Gráinne was one of my first Irish research interests (Thank you The Pirate Queen, you…..interesting piece of media). That being said, I am VERY rusty when it comes to her, the main takeaway that I have being a very visceral reaction to the words “Anne Chambers” because…..suffice it to say….I have Things to say about her scholarship and the occasional sloppiness thereof, but I don’t think I brought my copy of her book on Gráinne with me, the school library is closed, and I generally don’t like to utterly eviscerate something without having it on hand. But I can say that her treatment of Donal O’Flaherty was bad, based purely off of wish fulfillment and her own attachment to Richard Burke, and that my personal reading of their marriage, which I will admit is just a READING, is that Donal and Gráinne actually had a fairly egalitarian marriage. 

Think of it. 

Gráinne, if we believe the legends, and the legends of her early life are very in keeping with what we know of her adult life, was truculent enough that she cut her hair short just to get on a ship. She was defiant, spirited, and ruthless to the core. (The woobification and victimization of Gráinne is something that is ANOTHER post, given that I feel like it does her a MASSIVE DISSERVICE). Donal….would have HAD to have known what he was getting into. And Donal was TÁNAISTE OF THE O’FLAHERTY SEPT. And, as I’ve discussed….that was not necessarily something he got just because his daddy was chieftain. That was something that was AGREED on. He was not a weak man, he was not a coward, and his cognomen was Donal AN CHOGAIDH, Donal OF THE BATTLES. But he seems to have fought his wars on land, Gráinne on sea. Together, they would have been one badass pair. In terms of NAMING, look at the names of their children. Owen - Same name as Gráinne’s father. Murrough - A common O’Flaherty name. And Margaret - Said by some sources to be the same name as Gráinne’s mother. And what was the name of Owen’s son? Donal. Now, there could be a NUMBER of reasons for this naming pattern, it could be nothing. But, what I believe at least is that it shows a certain level of cooperation between the two of them. I am NOT claiming it was a great love story, but I am claiming that what little evidence there is (and there can only be so much), indicates a certain level of respect, especially given that Gráinne, in general, was not the sort to tolerate fools. 

Chambers also claimed, incorrectly, that Donal killed his nephew, but a quick reading of the sources would have shown that it was his cousin, ALSO named Donal who did it. The patrynomics don’t lie on that one; it was Donal mac Ruari, “Donal of the Boats”, not Donal an Chogaidh who did it. 

But. Gráinne. I love talking Donal, but this is about Gráinne. 

Something that I feel really does get underplayed, probably in service of making her a Perfect Feminist Heroine™ (I am a feminist, don’t get me wrong! But my idea of feminism centers around the idea that women can be as fundamentally flawed as men, they can have the same quirks, the same corruption, and they do not have to be perfect, long suffering, soft, or forever victimized) IS that ruthlessness and pragmatism that really underlines her character. People play up her attacking her son Murrough as some kind of righteous fury against him for talking to the English while conveniently forgetting that Gráinne herself spent most of her life alternatively appeasing and attacking the English. She was not a Nationalist, she wasn’t a patriot. She was, however, a survivor, as were MANY of the Irish nobility at this time. Another example of a survivor from this period was Iníon Dubh, probably one of my favorite women in Irish history (though she herself was Scottish by birth), who did try to bargain with the English for the life of her son Hugh Roe by giving over some Spanish survivors of the Armada to English authorities. People (CHAMBERS) try to pin Murrough with the worst faults of his father, but I honestly think that, at his heart, he was more his mother’s son than perhaps even she would be willing to admit. 

(Also like. The entire thing with Risdeárd an Iarainn? I have read the marriage tracts, I have a friend who does law stuff. None of us can think of ANYTHING in the Brehon laws that would allow for a “Marriage” like the one described. Only thing I can think of that’s SIMILAR is the Teltown marriages. Acting like it’s a common Brehon law thing gives it a veneer of legitimacy that I strongly doubt. The oral tradition COULD be lying to us, I’m willing to say that there might be gaps in our understanding of a law, or Gráinne could have actually done it without….how shall we put this…..the usual degree of sanctity and security that we tend to assume, given that what the law said on marriage could be very different to marriage in reality. Tl;dr: She MIGHT have catfished him. Or. The 16th century Irish equivalent. But like. Catfished where you’re actually married and have a kid with one another. Or the story could be a complete fabrication, like I FIRMLY believe Hugh de Lacy’s story was. Who knows?) 

Anyway, as payment for listening to that rant, have some of Sir Richard Bingham Whining, right from the horse’s as-mouth. I of course meant. Mouth. 

I could read this all day. Cry, Bingham, cry harder. 

Don’t think too hard about the fact that one day I might actually be in charge of a classroom, please. 

Brigid I can hopefully talk about less, to some extent, given that we know comparatively little about her. Throughout this, I’m generally going to be calling her Bríg, since I’m talking about her in a mythological context and that is what she is called in Cath Maige Tuired (which is my all time favorite, baby text, answering the third part of your question), though she is called Brigit in Cormac’s Glossary. 

So…what do we know about Bríg? Very little. But she is also an endlessly discussed figure, with the evidence being pored over again. And again. And again. A lot of the arguments have been discussed by Mark Williams in Ireland’s Immortals, the curious fact that, she is described in UNUSUALLY specific terms in Cormac’s Glossary, being described as a patroness of smiths, doctors, and poets, and there being three sisters named Brigit, one for each function. 

At the same time, however, she only really appears in one saga, the aforementioned Cath Maige Tuired, where her role is purely to keen over her son, Ruadan, that she had via her relationship (past or present, it’s kind of left ambiguous) with the former king of the Tuatha dé, Bres. It is a genuinely poignant, heartwrenching scene, a kind of rare moment of pure humanity in a text often saturated with descriptions of blood and gore and sex of literal superhuman proportions. And in all of this, a woman grieves for her son, inventing keening and giving us a reminder of the HUMAN element of war, the mothers, the wives, the women who are left to grieve in the middle of the fighting. Which, in a text that tends to be fairly misogynistic and skeptical of women’s voices, is actually intriguing. (Bríg is also associated with a lot of DARK SHIT in this section as well, such as night whistling, which is absolutely fascinating to me given that we tend to think of her as this kind of healing, sunshine and rainbows figure and this shows a distinctively different look at her.) There is also a Dinshenchas story, Loch N-Oirbsen that mentions her inventing keening for the loss of Mac Gréine, which COULD (underline COULD) indicate that the story might have pre-dated CMT, replacing the figure of her brother with her son. Or possibly vice versa; CMT influenced quite a bit of the mythological literature. 

I believe that it was Elizabeth Gray in her “Cath Maige Tuired: Myth and Structure” who pointed out that Bríg’s situation in-text is reminiscent of what many women would have dealt with during the period, their hearts torn between their fathers and, perhaps, more to the point, their fathers’ peoples, and the husbands and sons they had with the Norsemen. (Though I have…..certain doubts as to whether we should take it for granted that Bríg was WITH Bres at the time of Ruadan’s death, and all things considered, I do also question whether the entire episode was an afterthought, given that Ruadan doesn’t appear in ANY of the other lists of Bres’ children, nor is the story of his death represented in the Dindshenchas, indicating a certain lack of popularity. Nor do I believe it turns up in the early modern redaction of CMT).

This episode is one that I don’t really talk about all that much, mainly because people tend to treat it as a way of slamming Bres, or using Bríg’s grief as a battering ram against Bres, and that is something that, as the unofficial president of the Bres Fan Club….obviously rankles me. Just a bit, and is honestly one of the key reasons why I generally don’t discuss Bríg. Suffice it to say, like with Gráinne and Donal, I don’t really believe that that relationship was quite as unbalanced as people might interpret it, not the least because, in Cath Maige Tuired, a key trait of Bres’ is his dependence on the women of his life, especially his mother. Which….could create an AWKWARD situation, yes, but definitely doesn’t lend itself to the image of Bres being a tyrant at home as well as politically. 

 If they did split apart, it would be more because of Bres’ actions as king, such as his attempt at executing her father or the general treatment of poets under his reign, which, as a patroness of the poets (IF we assume that there is continuity between her appearance in Cormac and CMT, which is not inherently a given; assuming continuity in Irish Mythology is always a tricky subject because individual scribes often went their own way with this sort of thing) she would presumably be opposed to. But, of course. This isn’t really expanded on, Bríg is MASSIVELY underused in this text, and all that I really have are speculation (on an academic level) and headcanons (on a non-academic level.) 

In terms of the connection with the Catholic saint of the same name………..many people have come up with ideas, I don’t believe it’s something that will ever get resolved. I do think that many things we TEND to label as definitively part of the goddess’ traits tend to be overstated, however, with some of them being found in other Saint’s Lives, or having a similar event in the Bible, which, to an ecclesiastical audience, would be familiar. I feel like it can be very easy to get overzealous in that, because of course it’s a very, very natural thing to want something solid for someone who we KNOW was very important, yet have very little real info on. In some redactions of Lebor Gabála Érenn, Bríg is described as the mother of the Trí Dé Dána, “The Three Gods of Skill,” Tuirill, Brian, and Cet, with Bres as the father. These three are notoriously elusive and difficult to pin down, not the least because they tend to be merged with Brian, Iuachar, and Iucharba, the Sons of Tuireann, but John Carey, in his article “Myth and Mythography in Cath Maige Turied” has suggested that, given Bríg’s identification as a patron of poets, her mothering of these three “Gods of Skill,” and the close connection she has to Bres and, through him, to figures like Ogma that the whole lot of them + The Dagda, Elatha, etc. are part of a “Pantheon of Skill,” which is essentially a cluster of gods renowned by the literary elite. So, there is that. She was definitely an important figure, given……Brigantia. 

While I do not like drawing straight lines between Gaulish figures - Welsh figures - Irish figures, I will say that it seems like, at the very least, they share a common linguistic root. It does seem, judging from Caesar’s description of the Gaulish “Minerva” as being a patron of crafts, and given Bríg’s penchant for multiple crafts, that that is the figure being described, or at least someone who followed similar lines (This was argued by Proinsias Mac Cana in Celtic Mythology, pg. 34), since doubtless things would be different across geographical boundaries. (Welsh and Irish Mythology, despite having certain similarities, are distinct, I can’t imagine how much different Gaulish Mythology would be, if any of it had survived.) Something I do find interesting is that, while Mac Cana notes the Gaulish Minerva as a figure beloved by the lower class in particular, the Bríg we see in the Irish tradition is very associated with the upper class, the men of skill. But, then again, all of these written works would have been commissioned and written by and for that same elite, so it might not be that surprising at all. The oral tradition might have been very different, and perhaps the saint reflects that more. Or perhaps not. 

In terms of the connection with the Catholic saint of the same name………..many people have come up with ideas, I don’t believe it’s something that will ever get resolved. If you can get your hands on Mark Williams’ Ireland’s Immortals, I think you’ll find that most of what I say re: this topic (and….a lot of topics in general) will be echoed in there. I do think that many things we TEND to label as definitively part of the goddess’ traits tend to be overstated, however, with some of them being found in other Saint’s Lives, or having a similar event in the Bible, which, to an ecclesiastical audience, would be familiar. I feel like it can be very easy to get overzealous in that, because of course it’s a very, very natural thing to want something solid for someone who we KNOW was very important, yet have very little real info on. 

In terms of what I believe her function was….as hesitant as I am to apply a function to ANY member of the Tuatha dé, given how tenuous the evidence is and how it can kind of miss the forest for the trees in terms of literary analysis, I believe the bulk of the evidence, such as it is, rests on her association with the crafts, specifically as found in Cormac’s Glossary, with all the limitations thereof. I won’t say “No, you can’t worship her like that” to a modern pagan, I wouldn’t WANT to, because my relationship with these figures is not the same as a religious relationship. That is NOT my place. And that, if we are to take them as religious instead of literary figures, they might very well appear to different people in different ways. That being said, on an academic level, I do believe, at present, with the understanding that my views can definitely change and I am not infallible, that there is little to no evidence to suggest that she was a fire goddess, a goddess of spring, a fertility goddess, or a sovereignty goddess. The association with keening, outcry, etc., seems to also be more solid, so there COULD have been some association in there. Generally speaking, my main focus isn’t so much what a figure WAS so much as what was done with them afterwards. 

…For what was meant to be a quick note, that was very long. And tragically, I had no memes pre-prepared for this one, so I went back a month on a friend in the department’s Facebook and found this.

 I am willing to talk CMT if anyone WANTS to hear me talk about it, since it is my all time favorite myth, as well as….ANYTHING else, both the stuff I’ve discussed in this and anything else relating to the field, but I think that for this particular post, I’ll cut you free, with the hope if not the confidence that at least 1/3 of what I’ve written is vaguely coherent. 

[kingofthewilderwest]

I don't know if someone asked this before, I hope no... so I would like to ask you, if they are Vikings of Berk, what kind of dragons the Voltron team would ride?

Friend, if I got asked this question ten million times, I would still be stoked beyond belief every time it entered my inbox! Combining my love for How to Train Your Dragon with my soul for Voltron? Things cannot get any better than this! In truth I’ve only talked about this topic very, very briefly in the past, at a point before I had delved deeply into the lore of Voltron. The VLD/HTTYD crossover I have planned to write - but admittedly shall probably never get to - goes the other way, with Hiccup and company as Paladins. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to talk in depth about what types of dragons the Voltron team would ride, were they Vikings in the Barbaric Archipelago.

Admittedly much of this assigning is done by pairing the Voltron characters with HTTYD character counterparts. It’s extremely easy to make comparisons, for instance, between Shiro and Hiccup, when they’re both the defined leaders of the group, canonically ride something Black, have a purple-based weapon, have missing limbs, have to learn to trust the individual they ride, and so on and so forth. So my choices for VLD characters riding dragons is heavily influenced by that comparison reference, but I still do think that assigning dragons this way comes to wonderful matches.

Hunk Garrett: Gronckle

Hunk and a Gronckle is a match made in Valhalla. These two could not be better suited for one another.

Hunk is an individual with an abrasively bold fighting style, preferring to smash with strength and overpower others by ramming them. He’s got that sense of someone aligned with the earth element, given as he is a very grounded person with a power-based approach in skirmishes. The Gronckle in turn is a Boulder Class dragon with a solid body and enormous bludgeon-like tail. This creature has the same solidity that our boy Garrett has. 

Even if Hunk never has to fight a battle on a dragon, the Gronckle’s groundedness is something that would inevitably attract Hunk. Thinking in terms of flight, the Gronckle might have more nuanced steering control than a non-pilot-oriented-mind like Hunk’s would need, but Hunk would love the fact Gronckles are slow and steady fliers. He’d prefer this far over fast and flashy. On a Gronckle, Hunk would feel safe and secure.

Not only does the Gronckle match in terms of being a “solid” dragon, but its sweet-tempered personality combines well with Hunk’s own character. Hunk can be fierce and bold when he wants to, but when he’s feeling peaceful, which is most of the time, he is a friendly, good-natured sweetheart, just like a Gronckle. Both Hunk and Gronckles are upbeat and kindhearted companions with a loving nature.

Even the fact Gronckles can make Gronckle iron would attract Hunk, our engineer, who would probably have something genius and nerdy to say about this alloy. It might not be too far-fetched to suggest that Viking Hunk would work as a blacksmith or shipwright. In that case a Gronckle’s ability to regurgitate molten metals would be infinitely valuable in Hunk’s trade.

Keith Kogane: Monstrous Nightmare

I feel like Keith and a Monstrous Nightmare is another great match.

Monstrous Nightmares are strong-willed, temperamental dragons. Once considered the ultimate dragon to take down and kill, now Monstrous Nightmares represent some of the hardest local dragons to successfully train. It takes someone with a fierce personality like Keith’s to garner the dragon’s respect and successfully build a bond between Nightmare and rider. 

These are the same skills, in fact, that Allura says are needed to be Paladin of the fire elemental Red Lion, “temperamental and the most difficult to master.” The Monstrous Nightmare may be more physically powerful than other dragons, but like the Red Lion, they can also be “more unstable.” Keith would need to rely on instincts and skill to ride a Nightmare, just as he needs to to pilot Red.

It’s true that the Monstrous Nightmare doesn’t have the same sort of speed and agility that Keith would probably want in a flying partner. This might mean that starting to fly a Nightmare would be akin to Keith’s first experiences in Black, struggling to control and maneuver through the skies. Nevertheless I feel that Keith would acclimate, and there’s something to be said that Keith riding a dragon that can literally turn on fire is… well… a fitting image for our fiery young man.

The personalities of Monstrous Nightmare and the Red Paladin are good matches, too. Keith would prefer a strong-willed, stubborn dragon over a squishy cuddler. He’d understand the dragon’s temperament, given as it’s much like his own.

Pidge and Matt Holt: Hideous Zippleback

If we’re looking at matching characters from VLD to potential HTTYD counterparts, it’d make the most sense to place Pidge and Chip in the role the Thorston twins have. Up until VLD, after all, Pidge and his brother were twins. Even now, Katie and Matt bear a striking resemblance, and they interact in such a close-bonded sibling way, that it’s not too odd to plop them in Ruff and Tuff’s position. We’ve even got the green theme running in common with them!

Pidge on her own I could imagine flying a swift, agile dragon, perhaps a Nadder. Still, there is something to be said that Pidge would love to fly a dragon with her brother. We see Matt copilot Green to help with Voltron cloaking technology in S4; here in a Viking AU I am sure the two would love copiloting a Zippleback to time the gas and spark. They could cloak themselves in a sea of green smoke if they wanted to hide from others’ view. They could high-five and chortle about chemical reactions if they needed the other dragon head to spark a huge, gaseous fire.

Not to mention… there’s something powerful in the image of Pidge, losing Matt, and riding on a two-headed dragon meant to carry two people. Pidge, solo rider of a Zippleback, searching the seas, visiting island after island, in search of her missing sibling.

Zipplebacks’ temperaments would work well with the Holts, too. Zipplebacks have a strong, protective element to show their care to Katie and Matt, while at the same time not being in-your-face or obtrusive - giving the Holts some of the introverted space they (especially Pidge) will need. Zipplebacks also are fairly tolerant dragons that allow any sort of ridiculous shenanigans to happen around them. Again, the Holts will need that. I’m sure they’ll be experimenting plenty with their advanced knowledge of Viking technology around the Zippleback. Last, Zipplebacks know how to have fun with their riders! Katie, Matt, and their two-headed dragon will make some quality moments together.

Lance McClain: Deadly Nadder

Lance is the person who wants a Monstrous Nightmare but ends up bonding with a Nadder.  At first he believes he wants something with a lot of epic turning-itself-on-fire in a dragon - it’ll impress the ladies and make him look amazing - but Lance ends up fitting very well with the spine-shooting dragons. Deadly Nadders have some very fascinating defensive tactics Lance will love; not only is their fire extremely hot and powerful, but their spine shots allow for accurate long-range projectile fire. Our sharpshooter would quickly become the master of the single spine shot, though he’s got the brilliant tactics to know when a situation needs a broad swirl of spines, too.

Deadly Nadders can be curious, perky dragons, meaning Lance’s companion will be happy to follow along into any sort of tangle he wants to experience. The congenial personality of a Nadder will get along well with Lance’s own temperament. Lance is someone who might preen himself up as someone illustrious and great, but he is also someone who is loyal, dedicated, helpful, and supportive. Just like a Nadder!

The Nadder isn’t a Tidal Class Dragon, but that doesn’t mean its fit is worse for Lance. While the water-based Thunderdrum might have a sonic-based attack that could bear some parallels to Blue Lion, dragons like these don’t seem to fit Lance because of their obstreperous temperament. Now, Lance can be stubborn and hot-headed, that’s very true, but the relationship he has with Blue is of a more affectionate and supportive nature, and I think that’s what Lance would like in a dragon, too. This makes the Nadder a better bet. And besides, the Nadder might not have sonar, but its tracking abilities mean it can follow the trail of anything for days! That works great for Lance!

Allura: Deadly Nadder

Deadly Nadders fit with Allura in the same way that Deadly Nadders fit with Astrid. Allura can be warm and supportive; she can also be fierce. The Deadly Nadder has a good deal of all this in its temperament, and Allura would be able to relate to the dragon in all its facets. I don’t want to go through all the Deadly Nadder’s strengths and temperament qualities again, given as I just talked about Lance, but suffice it to say that Allura and Nadders are great for one another.

Really, Allura would be a master Deadly Nadder flier. She’s the one who could pull out the potential of the Nadder everywhere, from the dragon’s maneuverability to the dragon’s spine shot sweep. Like Astrid, initially Allura might be someone who is not comfortable on a dragon and might not seem ready to ride a dragon (trying a little too hard to control the dragon rather than let it make its own mind), but once she comes to understand the Nadder and its loyalty and its strengths and its mind, she becomes one of the best dragon riders in the Archipelago.

Takashi Shirogane: Night Fury

I’ve already mentioned how Shiro and Hiccup have a decent number of parallels. And if we want to make a complete counterpart Riders of Berk / VLD team, it only makes sense to toss Shiro on a Night Fury. Apart from character comparisons, though, the Night Fury isn’t a bad match.

Befriending a Night Fury could initially be a worrying thing for Shiro. Hiccup lost his mother to dragons; maybe Shiro’s team with the Holts had a terrible incident with dragons, too - Commander Holt and Matt getting whisked off by a Stormcutter when they’re on a far-seas voyage, or something along those lines. But Shiro has always been an individual impressively non-biased when it comes to approaching others. Despite experiencing Galra captivity for a year, Shiro is willing to solidify an alliance with the Blade of Marmora. In the same way, I could see a young Viking Shiro being willing, despite past bad experiences with dragons, to bond with one… to bond with a dragon that has always been considered “the unholy offspring of lightning and death.” 

In this way, Champion would become Dragon Trainer; he’d survive the encounter with a dragon no one else is said to have survived from… and not only that, but Shiro would befriend it. It would probably take some time, it would definitely take a learning curve of trust, but Shiro is a determined individual who doesn’t give up on others. He would do what he could to solidify trust, loyalty, and friendship. And because Shiro wouldn’t give up on befriending a Night Fury, Berk could see its first Night Fury rider here. 

In a way, Shiro befriending a Night Fury could help assuage some of the emotional and psychological struggles he’s carried with him since the mission he lost (or thought he lost) the Holts.

We don’t know everything about Night Fury temperaments because we’ve only had one example, but there are a few things safe to say. They’re intelligent dragons. They’re a bit reclusive sometimes. They seem to pick up on others’ emotions and thoughts well. I think those elements would align fine with Shiro and a potential dragon buddy; he’d enjoy a companion who might be shy and reclusive at times, especially at first, but who also is loyal like none other and willing to be there with him through anything. 

(Shoot, I didn’t mean to accidentally describe Keith when I was talking about Night Fury temperaments… but maybe this just solidifies my point more?)

He and the dragon would understand each other - when Shiro feels confident, when Shiro wants some time alone, when Shiro’s struggling, when Shiro’s having an amazing day.

Coran: Hotburple

NEVER. FORGET. THE. GORGEOUS. MAN!!!!!!

I imagine seeing Coran riding a dragon that’s not quite as common on Berk as other species. And while Coran might like to imagine himself as a dashing, daring, bold, brave fashionista Viking pirate, I can also easily imagine him on an endearing dragon like this. Coran would love his Hotburple. A lot. He knows his Hotburples!!! You’d probably hear him complain when the Hotburple isn’t cooperating, but we know that Coran truly does love his big lumpy lug of a dragon.