#so I both have an expert on hand and I didn't blow a bunch of money on expensive tools

[pianokantzart]

I forgot to take my ADHD medication for two days and decided to take up carpentry, and now I'm in too deep to back out.

[overthinkingfandom]

So I've been mulling over your stone theory for a while now, and while I'm not sure I'm 100% sold on the staged finale theory, I DO have to admit the stone theory makes a very compelling case towards the staged finale, and I really think a lot of your interpretations of c!Dream feels pretty accurate. Three times feels like too much to be a coincidence when you're gathering stone lol. I'm eager to see more evidence about the staged finale theory whenever you get to it!

Anyways, since 1/3 of the stone theory involves c!Wilbur, I'm curious: how do you see his and c!Dream's relationship? And do you have any predictions on what might happen between them?

c!Dream and c!Wilbur's relationship is so interesting.

There's this common misconception going around that during season 1 they had a negative relationship or even hated each other but that was never actually the case.

c!Wilbur admired c!Dream from day 1. Even as he used him as a convenient enemy to draw people to his side and gain legitimacy for L'manburg, he still expressed that same admiration alongside the words of contempt.

c!Dream on the other hand started off much more neutral. He considered the whole idea of L'manburg foolish and so didn't have the highest opinion on those who tried to create it. But he didn't have particularly strong feelings towards them other than thinking they're delusional and/or stupid.

The independence war was a bit of a turning point. It ended up as a win-win with both c!Wilbur and c!Dream getting what they wanted out of it. c!Wilbur got the position he wanted and c!Dream got a leader who would know to toe the line and not start shit with him. They had this mutual understanding going on for a while and that fed into their Pogtopia interactions.

The vassal conversation is a great microcosm of their dynamic, but is unfortunately often misunderstood. There wasn't any manipulation involved in the deal itself in either direction. Hell, there was barely any time for manipulation to happen considering that the moment c!Wilbur actually explained that he wants TNT to blow up L'manburg with, c!Dream answers "Where can I meet you?"

However, there sure is a whole bunch of attempted manipulation on both their parts. c!Wilbur pulls out the entire playbook of salesmen tricks in order to try and convince c!Dream. c!Dream navigates a veritable minefield of questioning in order to keep his "I changed my mind and I'm now on Pogtopia's against Schlatt, no really" act going.

And the funniest thing about it all is that they both see right through the other, which renders the manipulation useless.

And that's at the heart of their dynamic. They're peers, both expert social players despite using different styles. They don't let each other get away with anything, but a lot of that comes from a place of respect as they can see the skill going into it. It's almost like a friendly competition.

(You can bet that if c!Wilbur was around at the time of the disc finale he wouldn't have let that pass quietly. Even just in his conversation with c!Tommy after it he keeps questioning how c!Tommy and c!Tubbo beat c!Dream and is discontent with how c!Tommy is unable to give him a proper answer.)

Predicting how their relationship is going to go is pretty hard since a lot of it is dependent on exactly what Dream's plan is and would be his state of mind once he leaves prison. And also on some aspects of how the revival book works exactly and if/how it allows them to communicate but that gets more into tinhatting territory.

Something interesting that we may see on c!Wilbur's side is his admiration turning into idealization. He has a tendency to view things in extremes, a kind of black and white thinking. You're with him or against him. He's in the role he wants to be or he's a total failure. You're someone to be admired or you're someone to look down on. There's little in between.

No clue on how that idealization may manifest though. c!Wilbur doesn't really admire anyone the way he admire c!Dream. Even in his important relationships - like c!Tommy, c!Quackity or c!Phil - he doesn't respect them, in large part because he can get away with a lot of manipulation tricks since they don't have the knowledge or skill to keep up with him (c!Quackity isn't nearly the manipulator he thinks he is). So there's not really any baseline to compare it to.

It could manifest as either something constructive or something destructive. Or even both, depending on the state of his mental health at the time. Either way, it's definitely going to be a treat seeing them finally interacting again.