#should i tag as sonegg for the 憎からず思っている part? :P

[beevean]

"Sure, Eggman saving Tails from Orbot in Colors was uncharacterisically nice… but you’re not going to use an example from a game written by Pontaff[...] You would be consistent, right?" Hi there! I did just that; I wrote a post called "Eggman has always had redeeming qualities" that does cite that! (He actually saved Tails from Cubot in Lost World, but I get what you mean.) I like both Pontaff and Flynn! Pontaff brought final-boss Eggman back to 3D Sonic, which I liked along with Flynn's Eggdad.

Oh, hello! I have read your post :)

(ignore the typo lmao, yes I meant Lost World)

It's well written, but I disagree on a few fronts.

Eggman saved Sonic from the lava in Underground Zone, but I doubt that it comes from the goodness of his heart. At best, you can see it as Eggman wanting Sonic to die by his own hands - why would he place him in the pit where the Mecha Antlion rests? He wants his creation to kill his archnemesis. At worst, he knows that Sonic by that point should have a Chaos Emerald, so he won't take any chance.

Eggman doesn't want the world destroyed, that much is true. This is why Gerald's actions horrify him, and why the pedestal on which he put his grandfather broke in SA2. But it's because he wants to conquer the world for himself: he says as much in the cutscene before Sky Troops in ShTH. I also really wouldn't want to use Eggman's portrayal in that game to prove Eggman's best qualities: there is a whole path where Eggman takes delight in gaslighting Shadow for his own amusement, one of the few instances where he personally harms someone.

Speaking of which, while in English he implies that he cares about humanity's value, he's vaguer in Japanese: "He sold the planet's future for his own research results!?". Again, fits better with the idea that he wants the planet for himself.

And while on the subject, @colony-drop-program broke down the part where Eggman confesses the truth to Shadow during the Devil Doom battle much better than I ever could.

Eggman feeding Mr. Pickle is the bare minimum. Of course he'd need him alive, well and cooperative. Also, you mention Tails being kidnapped in S2 8-bit, but what about the fact that the bad ending is often interpreted as Eggman killing Tails? Technically it's not canon, but then again, the canonicity of the 8-bit games in general is up to debate.

Finally, my whole gripe with Eggdad is not that Eggman is a whole ass heartless monster straight from hell, or that being a dad is incompatible with being a villain. I also saw your post about how Eggdad makes Eggman more contemptible because he can understand love, he just doesn't care, which yea, in a vacuum, I agree with you. But I think Eggman developing nurturing qualities for an AI is OOC, for him, because no single positive trait of his would lead to him thinking of an AI as a daughter in an affectionate way, and there is proof upon proof of the opposite, Eggman mistreating his own creations and treating them as disposable, no matter how humanoid. Eggman being proud of the complexity of his creation? Absolutely, that is in character. Eggman going on an ego trip over how he created something very similar to life with his own hands, as one of the Egg Memoes says? Yep, also makes sense. Eggman getting emotional over the death of Sage? Unlikely, and also cheap since he was immediately able to recreate her from scratch, memories and all. It doesn't help that in the game itself, the two don't really... bond? Eggman spends most of his time bitching to Sage that he wants to get out. Besides, the fandom has already reduced Eggman to a softie, just like in the good Sonic X days, and not really considering the complexity of a fatherly villain - it doesn't help that Eggman does literally nothing in the game, let alone something evil, except for laughing at Sonic's comatose state. I have... a lot of problems with Eggman in Frontiers, and Eggdad was the last straw. Fun fact: Eggman's "feminist" trait is not present in the Japanese manual of Sonic Heroes, but it proves your point in a different way. Here's the page coming from this archived version:

As the name suggests, he's an evil genius scientist with a body like an egg. He boasts an IQ of 300 and he's an authority on robotics.

Although he is an evil genius scientist, he loves world domination, probably because of his childish personality. Despite failing many times in the past, he comes up with a larger-scale world domination operation every time!

Sonic, who always gets in his way, is truly his eternal nemesis. However, deep down in his heart, there seems to be a part of him that holds him in high regard, and he has a diligent side, to the point that he goes out of his way to send a letter of challenge.

I don't understand why the bio makes Eggman sounds like he has feelings for Sonic, but I swear that that's what "憎からず思っている" means, you can look it up :V and this exact description was recycled for Origins lmao. So, if you want to prove that Eggman is not completely rotten, there you go, he holds Sonic dear in his heart apparently!

And I agree that there is really no pragmatic reason why Eggman saved Tails in Lost World, and I do like his "I'm a complicated guy" line :)

I understand your stance, and you explained it well, especially in the more recent post. If I have to accept Eggdad, I'll definitely accept him as an hypocritical figure who only cares about his creation but won't extend the same empathy to the children he's trying to kill :P in any case, I appreciate that you came to me in a civil tone despite our divergences, it's not to take for granted ^^ obviously if you like both Pontaff and Flynn my snarky remark does not apply to you, I was talking about the ones who are very biased.