#sherlock is just a really smart socially inept man

[eggs4lad]

alec hardy is what i desperately wanted (bbc) sherlock holmes to be. but they are not comparable. they aren't even remotely on the same level

[jytan2018]

(Screenshots obtained with Sonny's permission, image descriptions at the bottom)

I did a response thread to the one shown in the screnshots, and was encouraged to repost it (with edits) on Tumblr as a meta post on Wednesday, so here it is!

Yes that portrayal was um, not very good BUT here's why its problematic-ness is...debatable.

She's a textbook example of what I call the Asshole Savant trope, which is an evolution of the Idiot Savant trope that used to be the default portrayal of autistics. Think Raymond from Rain Man vs BBC Sherlock.

(Yes, their answer to humanizing autistics was to portray more smart assholes. Not a very big step.)

"Okay, but why are you calling it a debatably problematic trope?"you ask.

Well, some autistics actually love stories where non-autistics are so dependent on an autistic's skills, the autistic gets away with being an asshole to them. It's their version of a revenge fantasy.

In fact, that's how the Asshole Savant trope got so popular in the first place. A world where we're so good at what we do, even our haters have to swallow their pride and beg for our help?

As problematic as the trope is, both autistics and non-autistics LOVE THAT SHIT.

That being said, it is possible to use this trope respectfully so long as we're careful about the way our savant protagonist's assholery manifests.

Snarky comebacks when someone's being condescending to them? Totally cool.

Constantly manipulating their friends into signing up for life-threatening adventures? NO, BAD. ABSOLUTELY NOT. BURN IT WITH FIRE.

Like Sonny said, autistics are already unfairly accused of being manipulative all the time. Non-autistics love assuming that if an autistic has enough social awareness to pull off manipulation, they will do so without hesitation because we're unempathetic assholes, right?Except not all of us are bitter and spiteful enough to view manipulation as a mere tool for petty revenge/indulging our special interests. Just because non-autistics manipulate us all the time into doing what they want, doesn't mean we want to see an autistic character do the same thing to them.

That's why I personally find Wednesday's portrayal incredibly uncomfortable, but acknowledge (reluctantly) that it's okay if some people find solace in it. For some folks, she's just a revenge fantasy character. Her blatant manipulation and general evil-doing IS the point. The problem comes when they project characters like Wednesday onto actual autistic people and assume we're all just socially inept villains.

I'm not saying you're evil if you enjoy Wednesday. Just be careful of which things you're assuming is an autistic trait.

(Also, Wednesday's in the teen drama genre, where popular tropes include Fuck the Authorities, Miscommunication=Plot Device, and Outcast Protagonist Saves The Day. It's no surprise that the Asshole Savant trope was a perfect fit for Wednesday too.)

(ID: A Twitter thread by Sonny Hallett that reads, "I really enjoyed Wednesday, but am I the only #ActuallyAutistic person who feels really troubled by all these memes saying how relatably autistic she is? For me her behaviour tips the balance into seriously not okay territory, and would not be good autistic representation.

"Autistic folks, esp autistic women, get unfairly accused of being manipulative quite a bit, but Wednesday is ACTUALLY and calculatingly manipulative, with seemingly no care for others.

"Her friends don’t support her playing torturer, which I appreciated, but they also don’t seem as concerned as I’d hope folks would be at the idea of being friends with someone willing to torture others.

"She does get challenged by her friends but not nearly enough for how awfully she’s treated everyone. To be clear, I’m fine with this being the story arc/style for Wednesday, in that universe, but I’m troubled by how much she’s celebrated as an autism meme.

"Like, we seem to be celebrating a bunch of outdated autism stereotypes about being non-empathetic, uncaring, hyperfocused on only our interests to the point of manipulating and hurting others… uhh I’m not down with that?")

[loucifieri]

NDRV3 HPA AU characterization notes

(also added some additional details on their character designs :D) I already made a character guide of the kids here, but after writing a spontaneously updated fanfic about their school/dorm life, I now have a better grasp of how to portray them in this AU. More under the cut~

Family headcanons here

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The HPA AU comics I’ve been doing admittedly focused more on certain characters, so I’ve hardly thought about how to flesh out the others. To remedy that, I wrote a chatfic that revolved around them as a class and what started as something ‘just for fun’ turned into something a bit more serious, complete with plot and drama (which is strange for something in a chatfic format lol).

Kaede Akamatsu: The cheerful, charismatic and kind pianoholic who promotes friendship and cooperation, earning her the position of Class Representative. Selfless and empathetic to a fault, but can be quite pushy and bossy. Behind her confident facade, Kaede is insecure of not being able to live up to her responsibilities believing that all she’s ever good at is playing the piano, going by a ‘fake it til you make it’ attitude so as not to disappoint the people that relied on her ‘leadership.’ She has a tendency to be tactless towards people when very annoyed or under extreme stress.

Add: While not a very good cook, Kaede is an experienced baker.

Closest friend/s: Shuichi (childhood best friend), Rantaro, Kaito, Maki, Kirumi, Tenko (she is at least good friends with everyone in class tho)

Shuichi Saihara: The meek and soft-spoken detective in training who eventually fills the role of assistant class rep to Kaede. Cool-headed and intelligent, Shuichi shows promise of being proactive and responsible, but has difficulty in asserting himself due to confidence issues. He can be very emotional, prone to easily cry when overwhelmed by negative emotions. He also struggles with depression at times, although he tries to hide it as best he could. To people he is close with, Shuichi can be quite sassy and would joke about his ‘emo aesthetic.’

(When Shuichi wore his hat, his necktie is the standard red one)

Add: Shuichi is an avid fan of all things detective (looks up to Kyoko Kirigiri, has a sizable collection of Nancy Drew Books and Detective Conan Manga, retweets a lot of Sherlock Holmes quotes etc.)

Closest friend/s: Kaede (childhood best friend), Kaito, Maki, Kokichi, Kiibo

Kokichi Ouma: The self proclaimed supreme leader, he is a compulsive liar and prankster, fond of being disruptive and annoying towards his peers. While he tends to lie a lot, it’s not as outrageous and over the top (like in-game), and he would never push the buttons of anyone who was already distressed. Behind his outward unpleasantness, Kokichi cares a lot about his classmates, often calling them out on their bad habits (albeit it’s also in an unpleasant way) and looking out for them in his own unique way (which is subtle, at most). He dreads showing this side of him to class 79, as this was a sign of attachment on his part and this was only reserved to D.I.C.E members initially.

Add: Kokichi doesn’t know how to dance.

Closest friend/s: Rantaro, Shuichi

Maki Harukawa: The surly, unapproachable ‘assassin’ who is the walking definition of a tsundere. She dislikes socializing with her classmates, mostly because of her inability for small talk and difficulty to relate with her peer group as she spent most of her time dealing with children (in the orphanage). Maki is blunt but not unkind, and may be occasionally dismissive but (secretly) greatly appreciates those who reach out to her. Being emotional is Maki’s greatest pet peeve, making her great at compartmentalizing and repressing her emotions.

Add: Maki was physically conditioned and trained to be an assassin but it was for her to be Motion Capture stunt girl for an assassin-centric game. Has not killed anyone in real life, but physically can if desired.

Closest friend/s: Kaito, Shuichi, Kaede

Kaito Momota: The loud-mouthed and passionate astronaut who likes to give pep talks more than Kaede. Kaito pretty much keeps the class lively with his dumb antics. Despite his air of stupidity, he is quite street smart and a good judge of character.  He has patriarchal views on gender roles, naturally irking most of his female peers. Additionally, he is hot-headed, stubborn and very competitive. True to his very upbeat and positive persona though, he dislikes showing weakness/ appearing weak. Kaito suffers from Tuberculosis, hence he coughs a lot.

Add: Kaito makes the best omelettes.

Closest friend/s: Maki, Shuichi, Kaede, Ryoma (one-sided)

Rantaro Amami: The lax and enigmatic adventurer who likes to meme, apart from traveling the world. Rantaro has a big brother vibe to him, but can be quite silly at times. He is fond of recounting experiences about his travels, often retelling them in a more imaginative version. Despite his nonchalant approach on everything, Rantaro is very particular on people’s perspective of him. He craves to be an important figure among his classmates, just like his central role on his siblings’ lives.

Add: Rantaro has a Youtube channel where he makes travel vlogs in the style of Bear Grylls’ Man VS Wild.

Closest friend/s: Tsumugi (middle school bestfriend), Kokichi, Kaede, Kiibo, Korekiyo

Kirumi Tojo: The responsible and mature maid with a strict adherence to her creed on selfless devotion. Kirumi is very capable of doing any (reasonable) task given to her, completing them with practiced efficiency. Taking her talent more seriously, she appears impassive and mechanical to her classmates. Her maid schtick is actually a conscious effort for her; beneath the carefully-maintained frigid and collected persona is a shy and anxious Kirumi with personal whims and ambitions. She has a sense of humor and would sometimes tease her classmates in some way or another (which always takes them by surprise). She can be quite condescending and judgmental when pushed to the limit.

Add: Kirumi is a closet bookworm, and has a collection of cheesy, young adult romance novels (may or may not own some raunchy ones).

Closest friend/s: Ryoma, Kaede

Korekiyo Shinguji: The studious and aloof anthropologist who revels in the beauty of humanity. Kiyo likes to observe people, mentally taking note of the intricacies of human nature, although this hobby of his isn’t taken kindly by some. Ambitious and resourceful, he spends a lot of time reading to further his knowledge. In turn, he is quite socially inept and often scares away any ‘potential friend’ with his intelligent ramblings. He is very close with his sickly older sister, but gets annoyed with her fussiness.

Add: He is a capable illustrator, often adding sketches on his journal of anthropological notes.

Closest friend/s: Rantaro, Gonta, Angie

Tsumugi Shirogane: The quirky cosplayer and talented seamstress with a habit of referencing popular and obscure pop culture stuff. Tsumugi is an avid fan of a lot media, from games to animes to TV shows, both western and japanese, often spending most of her time in her room to indulge in her fandoms. She also has a tendency to break the fourth wall and would reference the ‘NDRV3 canon universe.’ Tsumugi is quite insecure of her geeky side, and is a bag of nerves when under the spotlight. She is cowardly and unable to stand her ground, often playing for both sides in an argument in an effort to please both.

(the only one wearing the HPA uniform without modifications lol)

Add: She is a big fan of Junko Enoshima (a fashion blogger with her own brand of clothing).

Closest friend/s: Rantaro (middle school bestfriend)

Ryoma Hoshi: The stoic and detached Pro Tennis player who is very fond of felines. Ryoma likes to spend most of his time alone and would often disappear to god knows where. He is responsive when in conversation, talking in a melancholic tone. He is profound and insightful, open to giving advice freely to those in need. While very patient, he is vindictive and unforgiving to those who wronged him horribly. His whole family was murdered by a mafia group (leaving him with just the family cat) and he has since personally chased leads that will bring the perpetrators to justice. Despite his pursuit of the killers, he is not interested in delivering justice on his own and merely conducted his own investigation to aid law enforcement.

Add: Ryoma has a folder of cat game apps on his phone, his favorite in particular being Neko Atsume.

Closest friend/s: Kirumi, Gonta

Gonta Gokuhara: The gentle giant with a fascination on animals, particularly insects. Gonta is good-natured (very kind, polite and honest) but naive and childish. In spite of this, he cannot be easily tricked by Kokichi and would sometimes even join in on roasting him. He wants to be a gentleman and really tries his best to exhibit qualities of such. While not academically smart (being raised in the wild), he has extensive knowledge on flora and fauna. Gonta has bouts of self-doubt, believing himself to be incapable of anything. He can be very hard on himself and would do reckless things to prove himself.

Add: Contrary to most of his classmates’ impression on him, Gonta is not technologically challenged. He plays Overwatch in his free time (he mains Bastion).

Close friend/s: Ryoma, Korekiyo

Miu Iruma: The lewd and brash inventor with onion skin. Miu is outspoken and campy, often considered obnoxious by her classmates. She likes to make dirty jokes and projects an air of self-importance, but is also quick to deflate when reprimanded or talked back at. Being neglected her whole life, Miu wants attention, hence her over the top personality but this in turn made her a deplorable person. She spends most of her time building knickknacks to stave off the loneliness she feels. Over time, she does try to be less of a difficult person.

Add: Miu doesn’t know how to swim or ride a bike (but she can invent something that will keep her afloat on water and something that can keep her balanced on the bike).

Close friend/s: Kiibo

Kiibo Idabashi (not a Robot): The well-meaning and pacifistic Robotics Engineer that has a difficulty in relating with his fellow humans. Kiibo has lived a very sheltered life and has not been exposed to any social interaction with his age group prior to his enrollment at Hope’s Peak, making him quite stiff and robotic. He is very shy and apprehensive at speaking in class or called to recitation. He is also wimpy, but can get very defensive of his robotic creations.

Add: Kiibo missed out a lot on his childhood, so class 79 would often indulge him on what he was deprived of (like having pizza, playing tag and watching animated films).

Close friend/s: Miu, Shuichi, Rantaro

Tenko Chabashira: The energetic and cheerful aikido master who loves to defend girls from the degenerate MENaces. Tenko loves to be active, often encouraging the girls to exercise (especially those with a sedentary lifestlye). A fiery character, she wears her emotions on her sleeves and reacts strongly on impulse. She has a on a hair trigger temper, especially if the aggressor involves a guy and has a tendency to be physically violent. Tenko’s distaste towards men in general stems from a dark past: she and her mother suffered abuse from her own father. Her mother was eventually murdered by her father in front of her (at a young age) and after her father was subsequently locked up, she was taken in by her mother’s friend who was matriarchal.

Add: She is an adept shogi and chess player.

Close friend/s: Himiko, Angie, Kaede

Himiko Yumeno: The resident sloth who also happens to be a magician (er… mage). Himiko is very lethargic, dislikes doing almost any physical activity, often trying to weasel her way out of doing assigned tasks and the like. She isn’t dismissive of social interaction though, and is quite talkative when you start a conversation with her. She loves to watch youtube videos and web series, particularly korean drama. She is good at math, and would tutor Angie and Tenko when pestered enough.

Add: Himiko is ambidextrous, and can seamlessly use chopsticks with her left hand.

Close friend/s: Tenko, Angie

Angie Yonaga: The eccentric and bubbly artist with a deep devotion to an obscure religion. Angie is a pious devotee of Atua, and is willing to provide for the spiritual needs of her classmates. She loves mentioning unusual habits and customs from her island home, such as blood sacrifices and orgies. Hardly anything fazes her, this nonchalance and ignorance being considered sinister by some of her peers. Even with the best intentions in mind, she sometimes used religion to get what she wanted.

Add: Angie owns four horses (named War, Famine, Pestilence and Death) that Hope’s Peak allowed her to keep in school (for some reason). Their stables were located at the student/staff parking lot.

Close friend/s: Korekiyo, Tenko, Himiko

Great Gozu: The former Ultimate Wrestler is now the homeroom teacher of Class 79A. Despite his intimidating physique, he is gentle, patient and very supportive. He becomes quickly attached to class 79A and is quite protective of them.

--

And now for the romantic relationships~ (I inadvertently retconned some stuff from the HPA AU comics in the fanfic version apparently, I’m not very good at slow burn lol)

Kaede//Kirumi: Both of them are altruistic, though one is out of pure selflessness while the other due to moral obligation. Kaede is the first to develop a crush on the other, mostly out of physical attraction but it’s Kirumi that first falls in love between the two of them. Kirumi is mostly drawn to Kaede’s comforting presence and empathic nature, and is impressed with the pianist’s diligence in perfecting her musical craft. Kaede admires the maid’s dedicated work ethic, and is very enamored with Kirumi’s elegance and grace. Kaede’s considerate nature holds her back from pursuing Kirumi head-on out of respect for the maid’s seemingly unshakeable adherence to her creed of selfless devotion, while Kirumi struggles internally in balancing her whims and sticking to her creed. This results in them tiptoeing around their feelings towards each other.

Shuichi//Kokichi: One lies while the other exposes the truth. Kokichi, despite his growing interest on the detective, denies his feelings. Shuichi, initially unconfident about his chances with the supreme leader, takes the leap and reveals his feelings first. Kokichi is drawn to Shuichi’s intelligence, good-natured personality and cute face (and he may or may not have a detective kink). Shuichi is drawn to Kokichi’s complex personality, considering it a mystery puzzle only he could solve. Both Kokichi and Shuichi suffer from insecurities that the other deserve better than themselves; Kokichi believes Shuichi wouldn’t fall for him because of his complicated personality while Shuichi thinks Kokichi was in love with the more appealing Kaito, somewhat resigned he has no chance.

Kaito//Maki: Polar opposites and yet both hide the same thing; one relies on outward emotion to hide a weakness while the other represses emotion to hide a weakness. Kaito is greatly drawn to Maki’s independent and capable mindset but struggles with his own sexist mindset. Maki falls for Kaito’s endearing personality, but struggles to make sense of her romantic feelings. Eventually, they both overcome their weaknesses. Maki is the first to fall for the other, and while she is also the one to confess her feelings first, it was Kaito who first changed his ways, learning to be less sexist. Maki avoids Kaito when her feelings toward him intensified, but this unfazed the astronaut and remained wooing her consistently.

Tenko//Himiko: Polar opposites that balance each other out. Tenko and Himiko may have been the first pair to be immediately drawn to each other but they are the last pair to be officially together. Tenko’s more active lifestyle gets Himiko to reconsider her lethargic nature while Himiko’s relaxed attitude grounds Tenko’s overactive nature. Tenko was drawn to Himiko from the get-go, and while the smaller girl was initially annoyed by the aikido master being insistent, she eventually warms up to her. They subsequently act like girlfriends, but surprisingly their ‘official’ get together doesn’t happen til later.

[others to be added lol]

[jestbee]

I honestly pictured Phil as Sherlock and Dan as John! Not exactly sure why lol

Okay, I have a lot of opinions on this (a strange thing to have opinions on I know, but there we go) I was really deep in the Sherlock fandom before this and wrote fic over there so I definitely have like, clear pictures of how I interpret the characters of Sherlock and John and, well, let me tell you those interpretations have to disagree with you. And with Phil in the latest gaming video where he insists he’s Sherlock.

I’m going to put all of these opinions below a cut so as not to flood your dash with my nonsense. It’s really incoherent and rambley so I apologise.

Also, can I just point out that this is just my interpretation. I’m in no way starting an argument over it, its just a really fun discussion.

Everyone is allow their own interpretation of fictional characters and I would like to again reiterate that any allusions I make to the ‘characters’ of Dan and Phil are to the fictional ones I write about in phanfic based on the people they present to us, I in no way want to assume I know everything about them as they are real, complex human beings with many many facets to them. 

That being said, here are my rather rambley and long-winded reason as to why Dan is Sherlock and Phil is John.

Phil maintains he’s Sherlock because of his ‘cumberbatchy’ cheekbones. and yes, our Phil has some wonderful cheekbones and I never tire of looking at them in the same way I never tire of looking at Benedict’s. However, that is where the similarities stop.

I was going to base this entire ramble on their personalities rather than physical attributes but since Phil brought it up, I’ll chuck in some of that too. 

Dan obviously has the curls which, well, so does Sherlock and Phil has a haircut left over from an old era (emo) and so does John (his time in the army).

Sherlock tends to dress in designer gear and clearly maintains a sort of aesthetic as does own very own Howell, while John dresses in things he just likes, but he’s always tidy and put together but doesn’t seem to be trying to make any big fashion statements.... this was a flimsy way to start my argument. Let’s move on.

Okay, Sherlock spent his younger years smart yet socially distant. With a family that loved him but who were perhaps not too close, who maintained an insistence that he conform to a place in society, a normal job, a degree in Chemistry at university. He didn’t have any notable friends we know of until later on in his life when he meets John. suddenly he has a best friend and he’s chosen a career that his parents hadn’t heard of, one he’d made up, one they’re always worried about. sounding familiar?

John grows up fairly ‘normal’ surrounded by friends and family and generally is the epitome of well rounded. Though he doesn’t seem to talk about any particular people from that time save a few friends he made at university (mike etc) but it isn’t until all of that is finished he meets Sherlock, and then yes, he has a best friend. John studies alot, trains in medicine, surgery & battlefield medicine all by the time he’s in his late thirties/early forties and is ‘very good’ according to his own words. Much like our Phil with his linguistics degree and dual honours masters, right?

also, John is older than Sherlock by around 4 years. but Sherlock ends up being the bigger, louder personality and John is sometimes made out to be the ‘sidekick’. They joke about it in the show but clearly they’re equals, Sherlock isn’t his commanding officer and it’s John who is the creative blogger weaving their adventures into over-romanticised stories. similarly, Phil is often (incorrectly) billed as being secondary to Dan because Dan is the one with the higher subscriber count. they’re both creative, obviously, but i firmly believe Phil is a creative genius and that they are definitely definitely equals in all sense of the word.

The face Sherlock shows to the world is one that is social inept, arrogant, clueless about people and it is the more social and jovial John that helps him navigate his way through the world. Dan is often introverted, can be slightly pretentious upon occasion and has this huge, domineering personality that Phil tempers down by being his perfect counterweight. Phil is always described by everyone as being an absolute delight and Dan has complained in the past that he’ll often make conversation with cashiers in shops which he hates because it means he has to engage in small talk too. so in this sense, it’s definitely Dan who is socially restricted and Phil that helps him navigate that. 

however, as we’ve seen countless times, Sherlock is so so emotional. like Dan. Dan would have us believe that he’s only interested in cold hard facts, he’s a sceptic and cynic, sardonic in his humour and makes jokes about death and sees nothing wrong with that. but the reality is, Sherlock is the type of guy that gets choked up at his friends wedding so that he has to leave, so jealous when John goes on a date that he tags along and sabotages it with crime fighting. Dan is the type of guys that gets jealous when Phil jokingly offers to move in with a celebrity on the radio and cries over sad movies whenever Phil is away. Tell me these two men are not similar. 

John on the other hand is softer, yes, brightness in the world like our lovely Phil but also quite restrained in his emotions. He holds it together when he loses all his friends to war, clenches his jaw in the face of Moriarty holding a gun to his head. Phil is similarly restrained, the man has perfected the art of the poker face and hides alot of his emotions from the world (the internet anyway) in the same way John does. He’s careful in what he shows us, hiding all of those darker elements of his personality just as John does when he tries to convince himself he wants a wife and a baby and not to be running around London solving crimes with Sherlock as a way to curb his insatiable appetite for danger. Much like Phil hides the dirty sense of humour I’ve convinced he has.

I really have a hard time picturing Phil as the secluded loner genius. Dan is much more suited to the logical, analytical detective, ignoring coincidences and fate and destiny and any allusions to anything magical or fantastical. he won’t believe in anything unless there are cold hard facts. But at night, it’s these wild supernatural elements that torture him into not sleeping. like Sherlock’s mind-palace does with images of a definitely-dead Moriarty.

Equally, I can’t see Dan as being the one that is the easy, heroic doctor and a hopeless romantic. Phil is the quiet hero, one who’ll do anything for his friends, shoot someone because they’ve threatened someone he’s only just met but already feels a connection to. It’s Phil I can see reminding Dan that not everything has to have a complicated solution, that sometimes the answer lies in the human element.

Dan Howell will solve your murder, but Phil Lester will save your life.

I suppose this is similar to when people see punk!phil and pastel!Dan. I just don’t get it. But, it’s quite popular so...

anyway, I think that’s enough of my opinions. I’m totally down for discussing this at length with anyone that wants to, I still have so much swirling around in my brain I probably haven’t been as coherent as I could have been in this answer. 

I’m going to write a fic, that will probably be able to depict it better than I could in this. I’m always better as expressing myself through fiction than I am here. (eg ask me about my social anxiety and I won’t be able to describe it, read Ships and Phil is basically me haha)

Let me know if I’ve managed to convince you yet!