#she’s based exclusively on this one picture of her so if she’s inaccurate in anyway I’m sorry

[kryhara]

Obligatory Chell doodle since I plan on playing the portal games some time soon :)

[riddlerosehearts]

okay, i’m on my way home from AWA and i’ve finally had time to actually look into overwatch 2 and collect my thoughts, so here goes... this is gonna get far too long and essentially be a big essay that i know most people won’t care about, but i just really wanna get my thoughts out so i’ll drop it under a readmore! also be warned that if you‘re super into the new character designs you won’t be into part of this post, lol. but anyway:

first off, i think a lot of the discourse i’ve seen about it seems... overblown and based on inaccurate info?? (don’t worry i am not talking about hong kong here, people are absolutely justified in hating blizzard for that and so do i). people keep acting like they’re gonna charge $60 just for new maps or something but for one thing no price or release date has been announced (in fact, the dev team doesn’t even know when it will release and it’s been said that we may have to wait until 2020 for a date, because it’s still early in development), and for another thing overwatch 1 wasn’t even $60 on pc at launch?? yes on console it was which sucks but most of the playerbase is on pc, and the base game was $40 at launch for us. blizzard cannot be so colossally stupid that they’d charge more for this than for the base game, and if they do i’ll absolutely be complaining about it, but for now we literally have no clue how much the cost for OW2 will be.

and on top of that, it’s... not just new maps? it’s new maps, yes, but also multiple new heroes at launch, a whole new PvP mode, a PvE story mode which is something people have begging for to move the lore forward, a new updated engine, and the PvE will have its own maps and brand new abilities and skill trees—with the abilities and skill trees being unlike anything overwatch has done before, and uniquely exclusive to OW2 and not affecting the PvP so you’re not unfairly disadvantaged if you don’t have OW2—and i also feel the need to reiterate that it’s still in early development so i highly doubt we already know all there is to know. blizzard hasn’t been entirely clear on what overwatch 2 even is tbh but it’s certainly not just new maps and if you think it is then i’m actually begging you to spend at least 30 seconds on google because 30 seconds is really all you need to click on one article and see that that’s far from the truth.

also if you’re not interested in the lore then from what i’m gathering you don’t even need to buy it because apparently OW1 is getting all the same stuff except for that? like, people are saying blizzard should just release it all as free content, but apparently they almost are since the new “push” game mode, plus the map that comes with it (and any future ones) is coming to OW1 and it’s gonna keep getting all the hero updates and everything that isn’t exclusive to the PvE mode and players will be put into the same PvP lobbies across games?? correct me if i’m wrong on that but it sounds like if you already own OW1 and don’t want the story mode stuff you literally don’t need to buy OW2 at all—so if you do then you’re just buying the story mode/PvE stuff, that’s it. and if you do, every cosmetic item you already own will transfer over! it’s also not like OW1 is done updating, as we know we can still expect new heroes in it before OW2 releases.

don’t get me wrong, i am a bit worried that the amount of new content won’t be enough to justify the price, i do still hate blizzard for the entire hong kong controversy and desperately wish they would do better, and as a massive lore enthusiast and someone whose primary reason for loving overwatch is based in its characters and world i am very frustrated that this is what it takes for the story to actually move forward, but i’m also really excited to see where this all goes and i honestly think people are largely just complaining without actually looking into what they’re complaining about. i also literally don’t understand the idea that “lol overwatch already had this for like a week before they took it out” about the PvE stuff and would like someone to explain that to me if possible because i’ve been playing this game since very shortly after launch and i’m confused asjdjdnfkd

that all being said i do have what i’m guessing is a pretty unpopular opinion though, and it’s that i... i don’t like most of the character redesigns we’ve seen, and the ones i do like i mostly just kinda like, i don’t love them or feel excited about them, while the rest i’m neutral toward or hate, and that actually really upsets me because the ones i hate most are for two of my most favorite characters and it makes me worried for what they might’ve done to redesign and potentially mess up my other faves—but i guess these will be the designs going forward, and everybody’s pretty fanart is gonna have these designs, so i’ll just have to get used to them.

to be more specific on that last point: i absolutely hate lucio and mercy’s hair and i’m honestly really sad about that, especially since i run a mercy appreciation blog and i don’t wanna celebrate her new design on it because i hate it so that would be very insincere of me but i don’t wanna say negative things and complain on it either, but i just think her hair looks so strange now. and i like lucio’s outfit tbh but his weird neon glowstick hair just... ruins it, it looks so bad to me i can’t stand it and i want his regular hair back. i would honestly prefer not to even acknowledge these 2 designs (well, mostly the hair i guess) exist if i could help it. i also don’t like reinhardt’s beard or bun although i am glad to see his face exposed and like the lion on his armor, and i can see his new hair possibly growing on me eventually. and while mei’s design is mostly okay i loved her old hairpin, it was distinctive and cute and i’m sad it’s gone because i dislike whatever it is that’s in her hair now sjdjdkgkd. also before seeing a side by side comparison i legit had to ask a friend if anything was even different about winston or if i was just blind—which i guess, considering how i feel about the others, is a good thing for me lol. but if you like all these designs that’s valid and i’m happy for you!! just don’t expect to see me praising them, but i’m also not gonna be super negative like this too often either.

for kinda-positives: i actually do really enjoy one single new design though, and it’s genji’s, but not for any specific reason other than i’m excited that he’s finally wearing clothes lol. i don’t feel strongly either way about the design of the clothes themselves (...though i do lowkey agree with the people saying they’re boring looking, but hey, my man is finally done running around naked everywhere, so i’ll take it). and i like tracer’s new glasses and the fact that she ditched the crocs finally!! i’d also like to talk a bit more about mei’s design—a friend of mine is saying people are complaining they slimmed her down, and i haven’t seen any of that for myself but if they really are then i uh... don’t get that? she still looks just as fat to me?? i’ll just let this comment i made in discord as soon i saw the new designs speak for itself:

so yeah, if she is any skinner it’s because of the newly normal-sized coat, because when i look at the models side by side she legit looks the same size to me or maybe a little bit smaller—but hey, who knows, maybe i truly am just blind! but anyway, if you gave her old hairpin back then i’d honestly have no issue with her new design.

i truly hope the new designs will grow on me more though, especially mercy’s because the feeling of having an appreciation blog for a character you love a lot and not being able to celebrate something like this is a feeling that really sucks, but i... feel very alone in disliking them as much as i do and while i’m glad everyone else is happy i’m sad about that?? at least all the old skins will still be there though, so ultimately i suppose it isn’t that big a deal, i just really really hope i don’t hate symmetra or hanzo’s redesigns too whenever we see them, assuming that every character is getting these design overhauls.

i’ve also had the time to finally watch the gameplay trailer and the cinematic, and you know what’s one of the things i’ve always loved about overwatch? the maps have always been gorgeous, and the ones shown in the OW2 trailer are no exception and i can’t wait to fully see them and explore them. the gameplay itself looks solid too imo and i am very excited to see sojourn will be added to the game, she’s gorgeous and i love her. and the cinematic!! it had so many cute little details, like the ana & baby pharah photo and the birthday photo, and tracer having that picture of emily. and the winston-tracer-mei friendship, getting to see genji and rein being badasses... seeing brigitte and then echo both show up, mercy and mei having that cute little moment, everybody working together and being amazing. the scene between brigitte and tracer that was adorable, the fact that rein made a terrible “ice to meet you” joke the second he was introduced to mei. seeing winston so happy to be able to say that overwatch is back. just... it was cute and cool and fun and i liked it a lot, it reminded me of what made me fall in love with this game in the first place and it made me really excited! i also think that the story should’ve moved forward like this much sooner and that we should’ve been getting much more shorts and comics in between, and i also wish that we didn’t have to wait until overwatch 2 to get sojourn because we still don’t actually have a black woman that we can play as and that really really sucks, but i’m still looking forward to everything as well.

so, in conclusion: i uh... may have mixed feelings about some things but i have to confess that i’ve loved overwatch for years, many of the characters are very special to me, and i’m genuinely excited about overwatch 2. i fully intend to start looking into charities that support hong kong as soon as i can because i want to actually do something for them and show that i’m not ignoring what’s going on over there, but i also wanna buy overwatch 2 whenever it’s released and i feel excited to play it. unfollow or block me for that if you have to but nothing good would come from me being ashamed to say it and i won’t hide it, i definitely hate blizzard but it doesn’t remove my love for the world they created. i‘m going to donate to hong kong charities and i‘m also going to buy overwatch 2 (which probably won’t even come out until 2021 or something), and i feel like giving more to them than i give to blizzard instead of just not doing anything at all is a fair enough way to deal with this issue especially since i am doing my best to boycott them otherwise. and if i play the new OW2 content and it sucks and/or just isn’t worth whatever the price is i’ll complain about it then, and if/when we see other redesigned characters i’ll probably complain about some of them too, but for now i really am excited for the most part!

[thecostumeplot]

Episode 11: Dickinson with Bronwen Burton

Please consult these Instagram slideshows for accompanying images: Dickinson part 1, part 2

Both:  

Welcome to The Costume Plot.

Jojo:  

I'm Jojo Siu.

Sarah:  

and I’m Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers.

Jojo:  

We hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in The Costume Plot. [music]

Sarah  

Hello!

Jojo  

Hello!

Sarah  

Welcome back to The Costume Plot.

Jojo  

We're so excited.

Sarah  

So today is a special episode because we have a special guest for the first time. Jojo and I know her professionally, she's the shop manager and resident costume witch at Fullerton College, and you might know her from her YouTube channel Queen DeLuxe. It's Bronwen Burton.

Bronwen  

Hello, friends.

Jojo  

Welcome, Bronwen!

Bronwen  

I'm so excited to be here.

Jojo  

Yeah, thank you for being our first guest.

Sarah  

Thank you so much for doing this.

Bronwen  

I'm super duper excited.

Sarah  

We're really excited.

Jojo  

So we are going to be focusing on a movie today. But we also had a couple questions for our guest artist, which is something that will be a common theme for all of our guests artists, as well. But we wanted to start with a show that Bronwyn said she wanted to cover. So we're really excited to be talking about the show "Dickinson" today. So... Oh, go ahead.

Sarah  

It's so interesting, because like when I was talking to people about being guests, I originally envisioned our guest episodes as not even being about TV show or movies. But then when I would talk to people about they'd be like, "well, I want to do this, and I want to do this." and like, oh... it makes sense. You want to do the show. [both laugh] That makes sense.

Jojo  

that's what we've started.

Sarah  

Yeah, that's exciting, though, that people want to join us in our thing that we do. That's... I like... yeah, I'm excited. So anyway.

Bronwen  

yeah, I am super excited. This is like, I feel like Dickinson is one of my like new obsessions. So.

Sarah  

I'm so glad to hear about it.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

you've definitely been talking about it for a while. And I finally got to see the first two episodes. But of course, I'm excited to hear about your thoughts on it. Now that you've seen the whole... well, now in season two, right?

Bronwen  

Yes. And I'm not even sure if-- they were slowly releasing them. So I forgot to check to see if they're all... have been released, or if there's still a couple more. But it's a super interesting show. I'm super into it. But I've been reading a lot of things online and either people love it, or they hate it. There's no in between.

Sarah  

It's kind of anachronistic, right? Like they're doing some modern stuff.

Bronwen  

Super-- super, and super not anachronistic. So it's both. It's so weird.  

Sarah  

People get really spicy about that.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

They definitely do.

Bronwen  

I'm super into it. So it was created by Alena Smith, who is a playwright. And she also has written for some TV. So I think that's why I'm enjoying it, since it's sort of got a playwriting kind of thing happening. So it's definitely got some theater-like background, but I think that's why I'm into it.

Sarah  

We love that.

Bronwen  

Yeah. The costume designer is John Dunn, who is-- he did "Vinyl" and "Boardwalk Empire". So he's done some big stuff.

Jojo  

Oh, I love that show. [laughs]

Bronwen  

And they had 40 people in their costume department. So it's kind of like a big...

Sarah  

Wow!

Bronwen  

Yeah. Which... I know, because you guys were talking about "Bridgerton"...

Jojo  

That's a really good size.

Bronwen  

...how many people did they have on "Bridgerton" again?

Sarah  

I don't remember.

Jojo  

It was like 208 or something like that.

Bronwen  

But like, this show is so much smaller than "Bridgerton". So I was like, "wow."

Jojo  

Right.

Bronwen  

They have a lot of people working on it. At any rate...

Sarah  

Well, “Bridgerton," they did it-- it was like-- it took them three years or something, didn't it? Like it-- it was in production for forever.

Bronwen  

Okay, I don't know--

Jojo  

Well, in terms of building, it was only five months.

Sarah  

Oh, really? Oh, yeah. I was making that up. [laughs]

Jojo  

It was a really, really short time period. [all laugh] I was like, "five months? That's like, nothing."

Bronwen  

Sorry, I don't have any of that information. But--

Sarah  

That's okay.

Bronwen  

And then, so I read an article with the costume designer, and he... so what did he say? He said... so, "Dickinson" is like a coming of age story about Emily Dickinson. So it's sort of based in reality, but then they don't-- we don't have a whole bunch of information about Emily Dickinson. So there's certain things we know, all the way through. And they hit those points, but then they're kind of making up the stuff that's in between.

Sarah  

Ooh!

Bronwen  

So and-- like, telling that story, I guess, through through the actual things that happened with storytelling. So it's super interesting. So when you look... when I look at her history, they're hitting all those points, so it's fun. Like, now it makes me want to read like all about Emily Dickinson. So, I don't know.

Sarah  

This is gonna make me want to watch the show for sure.

Jojo  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

Right. So it's kind of-- but like, for me, it's all about the costumes. So that's why I started watching the show. Like, I'm not an Emily Dickinson fan. So here we are, I might become one.

Jojo  

Yeah. [all laugh]

Sarah  

That's awesome.

Bronwen  

Yeah. So let's see, the costumes are deeply researched. So they're really historically accurate. I'm-- I was surprised because I thought they were going to be more inaccurate or anachronistic. But yeah, I feel like they did play with some color. But they're pretty... pretty right on. When I get to pictures I will show you. So he said that he wanted to sort of fix the warped idea that Americans have with the 1850s and 1860s. Because that's when it takes place. Because that's when we have all of those sepia toned photographs from the Civil War. So a lot of people think of it as this sort of dark and dingy thing. But actually there's lots and lots of color that's happening during this time, because this is when the new dyes were becoming available. So there's lots of bright colors and there's lots of plaid, and tone-on-tone, and pattern-with-pattern is happening. So he really didn't want it to be gloomy. He wanted it to be exciting. So that's what he said about it. So I guess I can go into a little bit of history of Emily Dickinson. So she was born in 1830. She lives with a middle class family. She has an older brother and a younger sister. So older brother Austin, younger brother-- or, younger sister Lavinia. And then a mom and a dad. And then her best friend is Sue, who is her best friend and her love interest. So...

Sarah  

Oh!

Bronwen  

Yeah. And Sue ends up marrying her brother because of lots of reasons. But her... basically, she ends up being an orphan, with no money and nowhere to stay. So her brother ends up marrying her and they live next door in a big old mansion. It's lovely.

Jojo  

Like you do. [laughs]

Bronwen  

Like you do.

Sarah  

Oh, to be best friends with adjoining mansions! [all laugh]

Bronwen  

Right?

Jojo  

Just a walk away.

Bronwen  

But at any rate, this show is weird, and I really like it. So I'm going to start, I guess I'm going to share my screen so you guys can start seeing...

Sarah  

We would love to.

Jojo  

Yeah! I'm really excited about this show too. Like I said, I only just started watching the first two episodes. But now that you said the playwright is, you know, a theater playwright, I was like, "Oh, that makes so much sense." There's a lot of just really nice beats in the actual-- I mean, just in the first two episodes, I think, that are very theatrical.

Bronwen  

Yes.

Jojo  

So I'm excited.

Bronwen  

Yeah, I want to know what you think about it.

Jojo  

Yeah, it's definitely-- well, and it's funny too, because I think I'm kind of like you, once I started watching this show, I was kind of like, "Oh, is this really what her life was like?" And I started going on a little rabbit hole of, who was Emily Dickinson, and were these things accurate? And how much of this is actually in our... what's the right word? Like, how much of this do we actually know about her life? And even the white dress at the beginning. Which, you know, I'll let you talk a little bit more about but I was like, "Oh, there's actually a story behind this!"

Bronwen  

Yeah! So okay, so here is the white dress. So she starts out in this white dress. So this is an actual picture of Emily Dickinson, and here's our actress.

Sarah  

Haley Steinfeld, right?

Jojo  

Yeah.

Bronwen  

Yes. Yes. So they actually look a lot alike. Or, they've made her look like Emily Dickinson. So I think that's-- it's really nice to see, they they got the ugly middle part of the 1850s going. For sure. The hair is surprisingly right, a lot of the time.

Sarah  

That's awesome.

Bronwen  

She does have her... yeah, she does have her hair down a lot, but it's okay. She's a free spirit.

Jojo  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

So the white dress, they have her start in this white dress. Because of this dress that is an extant example. So it is her dress. She started wearing white at the end of her life almost exclusively, which is pretty weird for the period. But this one, of course, is older. It's the end of her life where-- as we are talking about, kind of like her mid 20s.

Sarah  

Was there a reason that she started wearing white?

Bronwen  

There probably is but I don't, like...

Sarah  

We don't know.

Bronwen  

I think she-- I don't-- I didn't get too far down that rabbit hole.

Sarah  

Right.

Bronwen  

There was so much to research.

Jojo  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

So, but-- they would, in the show-- they do a seance and stuff, where everyone wears white to the seance, so they can be pure and connect with spirits and stuff. So it might have some spiritual wisdom connected to it. But it's nice that-- so they've basically taken the dress that Emily is wearing in the still, and almost recreated it in white, to sort of represent the white dress, or the white stuff, that she ends up wearing at the end of her life. So I think that's nice. And it's really pretty. Let's see if I can make this bigger for you guys. Like, you can see like the gathering and the smocking.

Sarah  

Ooh, lovely.

Jojo  

Yeah, it's really beautiful.

Bronwen  

Like, the detail that they're doing.

Jojo  

Even the sleeves. There's a really nice detail on the sleeves, too.

Bronwen  

Yeah, it's... yeah. And it's like the detail that is in the original dress. They kind of recreated that over here.

Jojo  

Yeah, so beautiful.

Bronwen  

Like, it kind of picks up over the under sleeve. It is so pretty. And like this teeny, eeny weeny piping around the neck.

Sarah  

Ooh.

Bronwen  

I'm like, into all the-- of course, the construction detail, so...

Sarah  

Of course! I love piping.

Bronwen  

All right... me too!

Jojo  

It's so beautiful.

Bronwen  

So that's what she starts out in. And then we got all the other-- her other people. I wanted to talk about Sue. So this is Emily in her white dress, and then Sue... her last sister has died. Basically her entire family dies slowly, one by one. Super tragic.

Sarah  

1850s, am I right? [all laugh]

Bronwen  

Right. So she is in full mourning here. But she's super poor. So she doesn't have a lot of different-- like, the Victorian era has all these rules about what you're supposed to be wearing when, and what they're supposed to look like, and how dark they are and all this stuff. But she basically wears this really dark navy blue dress the entire time, because she doesn't have an extensive wardrobe. But this whole scene is really nicely shot. I don't know... Jojo, do you agree? Like, I love this whole scene.

Jojo  

[laughs] Yeah, I do love that whole scene. She's like, in the tree.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

Again, this is only in the first episode. But this is when Emily's in the tree, and then she comes in in black. And she's in the tree in white.

Bronwen  

Yeah, and this whole, I don't know... you don't know that they're kind of lovers before this. So you just think that they're best friends and she's consoling her, but also mad that she's gonna be marrying her brother. And so it's like, really, all this conflict is happening. And so it's really interesting to have Emily all in white, and then Sue all in black. So this dress is lovely, too. It's really hard to see all the details. But poor Sue.

Jojo  

Sue does have a really sad life.  [laughs]

Bronwen  

She does! Here's a picture of the two of them together in real life. So...

Sarah  

So is it from real life, that they were in love?

Bronwen  

They don't know for sure, for sure.

Sarah  

Oh, okay.

Bronwen  

Because we obviously weren't there, but there are a lot of letters, she wrote her extensively. It's almost like she would write her a letter instead of walking across to go to her house.

Sarah  

Ooh.

Bronwen  

So there's like, tons of letters of them corresponding.

Sarah  

I see.

Bronwen  

And there are definite overtones, so...

Sarah  

Right.

Jojo  

I think I also read that there was quite a few of her poems that were edited, to like...

Bronwen  

Yes.

Jojo  

...because a lot of them were dedicated to Susan.

Sarah  

Aww.

Jojo  

And then it was edited out that they were dedicated. Because, you know, obviously that was not kosher.

Bronwen  

Yeah, that whole thing was really interesting. Like, they didn't... they didn't publish her complete poems until 1955.

Sarah  

Wow!

Bronwen  

So like, all these, yeah, all of her poems were published, but they were edited and certain things taken out. And so the-- I guess, as respect for the family? So we haven't had-- we didn't have her full poems until 1955. Which I thought was interesting.

Jojo  

A whole century later!

Sarah  

Yeah!

Bronwen  

I know! Crazy, right?

Jojo  

Pretty crazy.

Bronwen  

So this is a picture of the main characters, sort of. So Emily in the red, Lavinia over here, her younger sister. So she wears a lot of florals and ruffles. It's kind of more of the, I guess, traditional Victorian gal in at least the first season. And then this is her brother, Austin, and Sue here. And Austin always has the craziest 1850s hair, and I'm here for it. [all laugh]

Sarah  

I love that kind of-- like, rumpled poet hair, Byron thing.

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

Yeah.

Jojo  

So funny.

Bronwen  

And then it kind of is on all the guys because it was super popular at the time. So but I-- and they usually don't really go for it in TV. And so it's really fun to see it going full out. Lovely.

Jojo  

It still looks very boyish and charming. And I feel like we're entering back into that kind of phase in our culture, of appreciating that look. [laughs]

Bronwen  

That's true.

Sarah  

We talked with Emma Fraser, the writer, about Harry Styles, and how he...

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

...really looks sort of like a 19th century poet a lot of the time. [laughs]

Bronwen  

I think, you know... we all have COVID hair too, like we all have a little bit more hair. [all laugh]

Sarah  

Right?

Jojo  

The length is no longer unacceptable, I guess?

Sarah  

I feel like-- I see my guy friends on Zoom for trivia once a week. And every week their hair is longer, and they all are looking like Lin Manuel as Alexander Hamilton. [all laugh] Longer and longer.

Jojo  

Like, just keep letting it grow out.

Bronwen  

It's true. So, okay, let's see. Alright, so this... is it the second episode? No, the first episode still. They introduce Death, because of this poem right here: "because I could not stop for Death, he kindly stopped for me, the carriage held but just ourselves and immortality."

Sarah  

Ooh.

Bronwen  

So she actually talks about how she sees Death all the time. And they go for carriage rides, and they talk and hang out. So in the show, they actually have a spectral carriage that comes to pick her up. And this is her imaginary dress that she wears to go see Death in. So a lot of the show is in her imagination.

Jojo  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

Yeah, Sarah's mouth is standing wide open. [all laugh]

Sarah  

I need to watch this!

Bronwen  

Isn't it gorgeous?

Jojo  

Even just the first two episodes! I was like, "WHAT?"

Bronwen  

It's SO good. I'm glad you're liking it, because it's super weird. But I'm into it.

Sarah  

I love weird! I need more things to be weird. [all laugh]

Jojo  

This-- this is a good balance of really, again, I think like Bronwen said, honoring the story. And because we have so little information, there is so much for them to kind of run with. But they do a lot of really cool-- and again, I think Bronwen and I have had this conversation a few times, about the difference between this kind of anachronism and the "Bridgerton" anachronism. Where... this show, I feel like they kind of intentionally-- you kind of accept that this world is not... it's a weird in-between of the period and modern. Because I think one of the things, actually, I told Bronwen a while back, was that with "Bridgerton" all the music that they played in the background was modern music, but played with classical instruments.

Sarah  

Yup.

Jojo  

Which I'm... I'm not a huge fan of that. But maybe that's just because I've had classical training and I just... I feel like that needs to stay there. But I-- you know, that's my opinion. But with this one Bronwen had mentioned that all the music was very intentionally modern and contemporary. And that was actually one of the first things that I was listening for, Bronwen, when I was watching the first two episodes. I was like, "Yes, this is a good balance of matching the modern with the period." Like, I can still get into the period. But I understand that it's with modern language and modern slang and modern, you know, music that they've incorporated into that. So I do love that about this show. And I think that's one of the things that makes it so charming, is that you're still able to enjoy the story while still using a contemporary lens.

Unknown Speaker  

Yeah, and there's a lot of contemporary language that happens also.

Jojo  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

So like, all the young people on the show end up using very contemporary language. Which is interesting since we're then like putting on top of that, totally... Emily Dickinson's poems, right layered on top of that, it's super interesting. And I'm-- I dig it all the time. I don't know. They're like-- they also project her poems in her handwriting on the screen as she's either thinking them or saying them out loud.

Sarah  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

To connect, so you have a visual and the sound that it's making. So it's-- I'm loving it. But at any rate, this dress is so gorgeous. I can't even handle it. So...

Sarah  

I love it.

Jojo  

Such luscious fabric.

Bronwen  

It is... they said it was charmeuse in this Vogue article, so...

Sarah  

Oh my gosh.

Jojo  

Ooh. Yeah, I love the the upper part of the bodice too.

Bronwen  

It is pleated so nicely. Yeah. So it's like super tiny little pleats all the way up.

Sarah  

Is that Wiz Khalifa?!

Bronwen  

Yes, he's Death! [all laugh] He's like, so cool and so...

Sarah  

That's amazing!

Jojo  

I love the way they portrayed Death too.

Bronwen  

He is so perfect. Like, I can't...

Sarah  

He looks a little bit like Dr. Facilier, from "Princess and the Frog".

Bronwen  

A little bit.

Jojo  

I can see that.

Bronwen  

It's a little... it's a little more... less cartoony.

Sarah  

Well, yes. [laughs]

Bronwen  

I mean...

Sarah  

The top hat was giving me that vibe.

Bronwen  

Yes. And maybe the little green glasses, I guess.

Jojo  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

But yeah, he's he's very dapper. And he... the carriage itself is beautiful too. So every time the carriage comes, I'm like, "Yes!" Okay, so what else do we need to talk about? The ball. So they have a house party, where all of their friends come over in ball gowns, because like you do.

Sarah  

Lovely.

Bronwen  

The parents go out of town for the the week-- the weekend, or the night, or something. And so all of their-- her friends come over and they're hanging out. So this is everybody in their ball gowns, which are... look how accurate they are! [laughs] I'm always shocked.

Jojo  

I know, so beautiful.

Sarah  

Those are really pretty.

Bronwen  

Right?

Jojo  

I do also love that they've kind of placed the mean girl in this very specific color. [laughs] So the girl in the green is kind of like the mean girl of this season.

Bronwen  

At least in the first sesason.

Jojo  

I mean, you can tell from her stance too. I think this was the last episode I watched.

Bronwen  

Okay.

Jojo  

It was their ball scene.

Bronwen  

It's a really interesting episode because they end up-- she has that full... Emily has a full moment where she is seeing a bee and she dances with it. Like, a hallucination.

Jojo  

Because they take opium.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Sarah  

Oh my god!

Bronwen  

So, full hallucination in the middle of their living room. I don't know. It's crazy. So they're dressed to the nines at this little house party. And this mean girl is... she has an interesting backstory. So she's in love with Austin, the brother, and they ended up not getting married because she he marries Sue, and she's kind of sad about it.

Jojo  

Very sad about it.

Bronwen  

And then she... her husband dies, she ends up having a baby and her husband dies, of course, because 1850s, and... [all laugh]

Sarah  

Everybody dies.

Bronwen  

So in this episode, they're doing like a full on Victorian... line dance. And then it moves into hip hop dancing at the-- like, halfway through. As the night gets crazier.

Jojo  

They're like, twerking in it or something, aren't they? [all laugh]

Bronwen  

Yeah!

Jojo  

...at some point.

Sarah  

How do you twerk with all those skirts on.

Bronwen  

No problem, man!

Jojo  

I know. That's great.

Sarah  

How do you, like... you can't even see your booty under a skirt.

Jojo  

Like, they're twerking and then I think they're also doing the Doogie? I don't know.

Sarah  

The Dougie?

Jojo  

I'm... yes. [all laugh]

Sarah  

"Teach me how to Dougie," that one?

Jojo  

I'm born in the wrong century, Sarah! [laughs]

Sarah  

The Doogie Howser, you know? [all laugh]

Bronwen  

So Sarah, I was like... I wanted to bring this whole thing up, but I didn't want to name all the dances wrong. So thanks, Jojo, for doing that for me. [all laugh]

Jojo  

I did it for you, Bronwen.

Bronwen  

Thank you so much. So I don't look so old and...

Sarah  

Oh my god.

Jojo  

I have no excuse either, 'cause I really-- I'm like, I never learned the Dougie, but like... [laughs]

Sarah  

I honestly couldn't tell you what the Dougie is. I just know that it's a song and I know it's a dance. Is it like, this one...? [demonstrates] [all laugh]

Bronwen  

This is gonna be good for...

Jojo  

Something like that. I don't know. [all laugh] I I don't even know how to pronounce it right, so... you know.

Bronwen  

Alright, so here's...

Jojo  

We're about on the same page.

Bronwen  

...This is what Emily is wearing at that in that scene, in that episode. It's blue.

Sarah  

Pretty, pretty.

Bronwen  

Isn't it pretty? Like, cartridge pleated and has all this ruching up here.

Jojo  

All that smocking!

Bronwen  

And then her sister wears it in season two as a hand me down.

Sarah  

Love that!

Bronwen  

Right? So is I thought that was...

Jojo  

So realistic!

Bronwen  

So realistic. So cute.

Sarah  

Awesome.

Jojo  

It's cool seeing that up close, too. Because you can see how it's-- they've clearly arched each row.

Bronwen  

Mmhmm.

Jojo  

Even across the sleeve.

Sarah  

That looks hard to do.

Bronwen  

For sure, for sure. [laughs] It's really lovely.

Jojo  

So detailed.

Bronwen  

And then towards the end of the season, the circus comes to town.

Sarah  

Ooh!

Bronwen  

And she doesn't end up going, and she ends up having another like a dream sequence thing where she ends up being in the circus. Just as an escapism to everything that's happening in her own life. So... but this is her and Lavinia coming and being like, "Dad, we have to go to the circus!" [all laugh] But look at these...

Jojo  

Oh, I love those sweaters.

Bronwen  

Aren't they adorable?! I can't even!

Sarah  

So cute.

Jojo  

So cute.

Bronwen  

So she wears this sweater repeatedly.

Jojo  

Makes me want to knit something.

Bronwen  

I know. I think they're crocheted, technically.

Jojo  

Oh yeah, actually, you're right. That is crochet.

Bronwen  

It's adorable.

Sarah  

I love that they like recycled costumes. That's so... it's so... correct?

Bronwen  

Yeah, you'd only have a certain amount of dresses. It's not like you're gonna have an entire-- like we are today. Having, like...

Jojo  

Right.

Bronwen  

...drawers and drawers of stuff, you would have just a few things. So things do recycle over and over. And she wears that sweater a lot as... when the season changes to colder. And this is the dress she's wearing underneath, and it has this really pretty trim running down. And all of the paisley dresses she wears are so pretty.

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

That's cute.

Jojo  

That's a really lovely shade of red too.

Bronwen  

Yeah, she kind of toggles between blue and red, depending on her mental state. So if she's feeling really good about herself, she's in red. And if she's kind of down on herself, it's blue.

Jojo  

What an interesting emotional visual.

Bronwen  

Right? So this is...

Sarah  

Oh, THAT'S rad.

Bronwen  

Right? So this is the corset that she ends up wearing when she goes... she's in the circus. And they actually have a little fitting picture of them figuring out all the tattoos, which I thought was interesting.

Jojo  

Oh, cool!

Oh, whoa. That's pretty cool.

Bronwen  

Right? And that's like... in this episode, she's just sort of feeling like a freak, right? Like, you know, her father doesn't get it. And she really wants to just be a writer and they want her to be a traditional Victorian lady. And it's not... it's not in her bones. It's just-- she's always writing poetry, and she just can't stop herself. So she's just feeling like she really does belong in the freak show and not in the house. So this is her little... it's so cool. I love these little striped acrobats on the side.

Sarah  

Oh, yeah.

Jojo  

I really do love circus wear, any kind of circus movie. I just enjoy how people reinterpret the circus each time...

Sarah  

Me too.

Jojo  

...in every era, every time. I do love that.

Bronwen  

It's really... it's kind of sad, because this is very-- a very... moment, thing at the end. And you're like, "wait, I need to look at all of this detail!" I just want to pause it, and there's so many fabulous costumes happening in this entire scene. But...

Jojo  

That's usually how it is.

Bronwen  

I know, right?

Jojo  

You know, the two seconds on screen.

Bronwen  

And there's one episode where they dress up like boys to go to a lecture. They look so cute.

Sarah  

Oh my gosh.

Jojo  

So cute.

Bronwen  

I love all the textures that they sort of layered on top of each other.

Sarah  

Mmhmm.

Bronwen  

I don't know, the clothes just don't stop. They just kind of just keep on going forever. Everybody looks awesome.

Sarah  

I feel like I need to start this tonight. [all laugh] Like, I'm so excited to watch this now!

Bronwen  

Okay, well this is, I think, the show to watch. So... and this is Sue when she gets married at the very end of the season.

Sarah  

Pretty.

Bronwen  

She just looks so stinkin' pretty. It's ridiculous.

Jojo  

Look at that veil! It's so beautiful.

Bronwen  

Look at this necklace! I mean, I can't.

Sarah  

Gorge.

Jojo  

Super gorge. There are some really lovely bonnets that I just want to sort of shout out to like... it looks like they were built. So...

Sarah  

Is that Jane Krakowski?!

Bronwen  

It is!

Jojo  

It is.

Bronwen  

I know!

Sarah  

I am such a fan of her!

Bronwen  

There's lots of sort of star cameos that happen. So I don't want to... now that you guys are gonna start watching it, I don't want to like... [all laugh] it's so fun to see.

Jojo  

I was pleasantly surprised when I saw her as the mom. I was like, "Oh wait, what?"

Sarah  

I love her. Also, I met her when I saw "She Loves Me" on Broadway, and she was so nice.

Jojo  

Ooh.

Sarah  

She was SO nice. She is a true star.

Bronwen  

Yeah. And I feel like this is a very different part for her. Like, she's usually sort of glamorous, and she's very pious and kind of like closed and not fabulous?

There's still really funny moments that she has, which is one of the things I love about her.

Yeah. It's a very well-developed character.

Jojo  

She has a very sarcastic, witty humor.

Sarah  

She's a great comedic-- comedic actress, so I feel like doesn't get a lot of recognition for how good she is.

Bronwen  

She's so good. But like, there is... the straw work on this hat. It's braided and it has straw flowers that are three dimensional that are worked in the lace on the inside. Yeah.

Jojo  

So beautiful.

Sarah  

Good for them for doing beautiful bonnets. I feel like bonnets... we've talked about bonnets and how often we have films just either completely ignore them, or it's just kind of like an afterthought.

Bronwen  

Totally. And it's like-- they don't put a lot of bonnets on Emily. But I think that lets-- you know, obviously on purpose, but everyone else is wearing bonnets. So it's just to set her apart.

Sarah  

Yeah, it makes her look like more of a free spirit, and different from everybody.

Bronwen  

Exactly. Mmhmm.

Jojo  

Yeah, they do that really well. She definitely stands out in every scene that she's in. Pretty much the entire show.

Bronwen  

Yep. All right. I think that's all I wanted. I mean, the costumes do just go on and on. [laughs] There are-- I think in season two, there's some-- they go to the opera. And so everybody's in ball gowns.

Jojo  

Oh, yeah.

Sarah  

Ooh, yes.

Jojo  

Gorgeous.

Bronwen  

And her-- Emily's ball gown is blue velvet. And gold. It is so beautiful.

Jojo  

Oooh.

Bronwen  

It's probably in this ball gown section...

Jojo  

I can't wait.

Sarah  

I love velvet.

Bronwen  

So at any rate, I don't see-- if there's anything else I wanted to mention. I mean...

Jojo  

I think you did a really good job of paring down...

Sarah  

I do too, you did great!

Jojo  

...considering. [all laugh]

Bronwen  

Okay! I mean, there's so much-- so many beautiful clothes every moment of every show. So...

Sarah  

You understand our struggle now, of-- we have to edit ourselves down.

Jojo  

Yup!

Bronwen  

Yes I do. There's still way too many, still way too many.

Jojo  

Always, especially with TV shows.

Sarah  

Oh, yeah.

Jojo  

'Cause every episode can be its own, like... you could have 60 costumes.

Sarah  

I've been thinking about it. Like, my favorite TV shows. And I'm like... I really want to cover "Outlander," and I was like, "how about I just pick one episode, that I just think is..."

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

"...really a good example?"

Jojo  

I think you HAVE to for a TV show, because otherwise it just gets overwhelming. Especially for things like that, where she goes into so many different time periods and areas and locations and interacts with so many different people. There's just no possible way.

Bronwen  

Yeah, that show would be impossible.

Jojo  

Yeah, it for sure.

Sarah  

Yeah.

Jojo  

Okay.

Sarah  

Well, great job!

Bronwen  

Thanks! [all laugh] Thanks, "Dickinson"!

Jojo  

Thanks, Bronwen! I'm excited to watch the rest of it. Like I said, with just two episodes, it's... you know, it's been interesting just looking at the costumes. And seeing everything all together. I think-- I think you mentioned last time, production value is a big part of it. And like, you can definitely tell, they've really paid attention to all the details on this show.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

I think they did a really good job.

Bronwen  

You know, that picture I showed of the of her dress, you can see what her room actually look like. And they really did make her room in the set look exactly like the room in the photographs. So...

Sarah  

That's so cool.

Bronwen  

They've really, really researched everything. And it's kind of nice to have the anachronistic be language, and music, and-- where the visuals are very anchored in the time period. So you don't feel like you're leaving the time period, really.

Jojo  

Yeah, I think that's what makes it so accessible too, because we're living in such an audio... I mean, of course, with the podcast. But also just in general. It's such an audio world, that to give us that grounding of the contemporary and what we listen to, while still being able to see a visual from the time period, I feel like makes us connect to the time period a little bit better.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

Than if we were trying to do this weird mashup.

Sarah  

Yeah, like you were saying about "Bridgerton," how they-- it's basically like string quartet covers. And...

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

I appreciated what they were trying to do, but I personally don't love a string quartet cover of a pop song, because it doesn't sound good. It sounds like-- if you're-- I think one of them was "Bad Guy" by Billy Eilish.

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

And it's like, this song is really good. But there's not really a way to convey this song with only strings, unless you have a really good arranger, and I feel like it was just kind of... it doesn't sound like classical music, it sounds like something else. And it kind of took me out of it a little bit.

Jojo  

That's exactly how I feel about classical covers. Because it's, you know, especially with things like "Bad Guy," there's such a slam poetry kind of aspect to it.

Sarah  

Yeah!

Jojo  

...That I think you just can't get with classical music, because it's just a different-- it's a different medium. So yeah, I think that's what I love about this show is that they let the music just be contemporary, and let that kind of feel what's happening in the scene.

Sarah  

I think that's cool.

Jojo  

Because you still get that sense of, you know, this is a contemporary feeling, without having to look contemporary in terms of historical accuracy.

Sarah  

Right. Yeah, totally.

Jojo  

Yeah, cool. Thanks, Bronwyn. Great job! Hopefully not too scary, as our first guest artist. [all laugh]

Bronwen  

Thanks though.

Jojo  

No pressure.

Bronwen  

No pressure.

Sarah  

So me and Jojo know what you do. But do you want to tell our listeners a little bit about what you do, in the realm of theater? Or about your YouTube channel? Or, like... what have you been up to? [all laugh]

Bronwen  

I know, it's a lot.

Jojo  

Self promotion!

Bronwen  

So I sort of, I guess... I don't know how far back I want to start. I guess I... you know, I went to school to be a-- I have a costume design degree from Cal Arts. And then ended up sort of not liking just being a costume designer. And I really wanted to build stuff, because that's really what I love. And so I ended up working in different shops starting out as a stitcher, and then ending up as a cutter/draper. And now I run the costume shop at Fullerton College, where Jojo and I work. And then the pandemic happened. And I had kind of started a YouTube channel, sort of on the side, because I wasn't seeing kind of the YouTube stuff that I wanted to see. I wanted people to know the right ways to do things, and that they're accessible and easy to do. And so I started that, sort of on the side, which was really actually great, because then pandemic hit, and we ended up needing to teach people how to do this stuff through Zoom, or whatever. So I kind of had a leg up on teaching far away. [laughs] On video.

Sarah  

Yeah, you didn't really have to teach yourself how to record yourself doing things...

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Sarah  

...'cause you were already doing it. That's awesome.

Bronwen  

Yeah. Pretty awesome. So that's kind of... and then, so my YouTube channel is pretty... I don't know, it's silly. And I do do some silly things. But there is a lot of educational stuff happening, as well. I try to make it as fun as possible. So, you should check it out.

Sarah  

I love your YouTube videos. I think they're adorable.

Bronwen  

Aww, thanks. [laughs]

Jojo  

And seeing the final product too, all the stuff you've built has been so cool to watch.

Bronwen  

Yeah, I hope so. And then, yeah... I just entered in the Foundations Revealed contest. We'll see how that goes.

Sarah  

I saw that, yeah!

Bronwen  

Yeah. It's a big...

Jojo  

So exciting!  

Bronwen  

...Worldwide competition. So we'll see. I probably won't win, but you know, it's fun to enter and at least have a goal and something to do.

Sarah  

Yeah!

Bronwen  

In these times.

Sarah  

Totally. Hey, who knows, you might win!

Bronwen  

I dunno!

Jojo  

I'm rooting for you, Bronwen.

Bronwen  

[laughs] I think regular people get to vote. So at least you should check out what everybody worldwide has done.

Sarah  

I'll vote, I'll vote for you.

Jojo  

I wanna vote! [all laugh]

Bronwen  

I don't think they're technically up, but it's gonna be on the Foundations Revealed website in March.

Sarah  

And we will post that on our social medias when it's around so that people can vote for you.

Bronwen  

Oh, that'd be great.

Jojo  

Yeah, we can definitely do that.

Bronwen  

Or they can vote for whoever they want.

Sarah  

Well, yeah.

Jojo  

Vote for Bronwen!

Sarah  

We'd prefer that they vote for you. [all laugh]

Jojo  

If you're listening to this podcast.

Sarah  

I'm sorry, we don't make the rules. It's a legal requirement that you now vote for Bronwen. [all laugh] Since you're listening to this podcast.

Bronwen  

Oh, my gosh.

Jojo  

So funny. Bronwen has been teaching me a lot too, even of recording and how to do all of that and teach online.

Bronwen  

It's bananas. It's been crazy. But fun.

Sarah  

I mean, yeah, I know a lot of teachers. My mom is a vocal teacher and a choir teacher. And she has been having to teach vocal ensemble over Zoom.

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

And she's really been adapting to. So it's-- it's like everybody's learning a whole new set of skills.

Jojo  

Absolutely.

Bronwen  

Yeah, I think it's been kind of awesome. Like, in a way, it's really a lot of work and a really different way of doing things. But it has been good, and examining how we teach and sort of fine tuning what we're teaching and stuff. So I think it's been good on the most part. I mean, it's been real rough for our industry, but...

Sarah  

Yeah.

Jojo  

For sure.

Sarah  

So, what is your history with theater? Like, we want to know if there's one specific show that maybe you saw when you were young? Or the first show that you worked on that made you go, "Oh, this is definitely what I want to do."

Bronwen  

I think this is an interesting question. Because I think-- so, I grew up-- my parents were artists that made liturgical vestments.

Oh!

So, "liturgical vestments" is fancy word for the stuff that hangs in churches on the altar. Alter cloths and stuff. And it was in the 70s, when they were allowing women to be preachers and ministers and stuff. And they didn't have-- no one was selling robes for ladies. So my mom started making robes for women, and then they sort of ended up doing the art part and the liturgical vestment part. So I grew up in like-- a basic factory kind of setting where there was always silk and stuff in the trash cans. And I would put things together, just crafty. And I was always into costumes and clothing. And I thought for a while I'd be a fashion designer or something. But then-- and my parents, my parents were kind of artists. They always took us to different things that they could take us to, so we ended up going to a "Peter Pan" show when we were pretty little. And I remember it because my mom was actually crying when Tinkerbell died.

Sarah  

Aww!

Bronwen  

I know. And I was like, "What are you doing?" [all laugh] Like, you know, hard hearted me, I guess. I don't know. Like, watching the audience-- because that moment is so strange in theatrical... I don't know, experiences. Where the whole audience kind of has to buy into what's happening.

Sarah  

Yep.

Bronwen  

So I think that was the first moment that I felt that like, whatever was happening on stage was actually affecting people, and that we're having a communal response to that. So... which is a weird, kind of existential seven year old thing to be having. [all laugh] But I think that was the first moment that theater... how important theater is. And then I ended up working with a children's theater group, doing mostly building and helping with that, behind the scenes. So that's kind of what-- and then I ended up going to college and stuff. So it's not... it wasn't like... there's not a direct line from that show to theater. But I think all of my love of history and sewing and all that stuff sort of ended up coming together in like, "this is what you should be doing."

Sarah  

I love that.

Jojo  

Yeah, definitely having that history is great.

Sarah  

Yeah, I do feel like a lot of people who work in theater, it's not It wasn't like a... "I've known I wanted to do this forever, and I just went and did it." It's like we all kind of have a meandering path where we try this and we try that. And then it just kind of-- we eventually arrive at theater. We go, "Oh, here it is." Like, "this is what I want."

B:

Right. Yeah.

Sarah  

But it takes us a while to figure that out.

Bronwen  

Yeah, and then I did-- you know, I tried some film and it was just... the pacing was strange and it just felt... I don't know, theater is so much better! [laughs] For me, I would say.

Sarah  

I completely agree. I've been on a couple of sets and they weren't even professional sets, they were small films, and I was like, "this is the most stressful thing I've ever experienced." [laughs]

Bronwen  

Yeah, they're just sort of badly organized. Like, you're-- you're prepared for the thing they're going to shoot and then all of a sudden they're like, "Oh, we're gonna shoot this," and you're like, "But we're not prepared for that, we're prepared for this!" So yeah, it was very stressful and...

Jojo  

Constantly changing.

Bronwen  

Yeah, wait-- a lot of waiting around for, like, "I could have been preparing for this all day if I had known."

Sarah  

Right, exactly.

Jojo  

Yeah.

Sarah  

Yeah, it's like intense boredom followed by the most stressful 30 minutes of your life...

Bronwen  

Yes.

Sarah  

...and then another five hours of intense boredom. [all laugh]

Jojo  

"Hurry up and wait" is basically the entire motto.

Sarah  

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Bronwen  

But mostly theater, you're just busy the entire time. So, no sitting around, there's no sitting around in theater. So...

Sarah  

Except for during tech. [all laugh]

Jojo  

Unless it's just one of those shows.

Sarah  

It's true, there are some techs where I'm like-- I hardly sit in the house at all because I'm just running around like a headless chicken.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

Yup.

Bronwen  

That does happen.

Jojo  

Very true. Well thanks Bronwen! It's cool hearing that-- I mean, because I know you've talked to me a little bit about some of your background, but it's cool hearing the full story.

Bronwen  

I'm glad. I feel like I've not had the most normal childhood, or whatever. [laughs] And I guess, that's how you end up in theater for sure. [all laugh]

Sarah  

That's a very fair point. Do you want to tell us a bit about maybe, like... your favorite show you've ever worked on, if you have one?

Bronwen  

I always say "Edward Toulane." That was at South Coast Repertory. Really... I don't really know why, I guess, because it's not like I got to fit actors. I made tiny little clothes for this rabbit that was in the show, it's kind of like the star of the show. But he is a stuffed rabbit, that was about, what, two feet high or something? So it was like making doll clothes and getting paid for it, so I think that was my seven year old heart being like, "THIS IS THE BEST!" So... but, you know, and I've made tons of gorgeous dresses and fun stuff, but I-- that is the thing that kind of gave me the most joy.

Jojo  

And you've talked-- I mean, you've talked about this before, Bronwen, but I know you really wanted to work for Jim Henson for a while, with The Muppets, too.

Bronwen  

Yes I did. [all laugh]

Jojo  

I mean, you probably still do.

Unknown Speaker  

I want to, too!

Bronwen  

Still do, yes.

Sarah  

Me too, Bronwen! Yeah, every time-- so my parents, my family and I all watch "The Muppet Christmas Carol" together on Christmas every year. And every time, I stare at the tiny clothes and I'm like, "I want to make them." And then every year around Christmas I end up on the Jim Henson website looking to see if they have job openings, and they never do. [all laugh]

Bronwen  

They never do. "The Muppet Christmas Carol" has beautiful costumes!

Sarah  

It does! And I actually-- like, it's not oh, you know, it's a little false front vest, a false shirt underneath. It's like they've layered all the actual clothes, they're wearing everything that they should be wearing for the period, and it's all beautiful!

Bronwen  

Yeah, absolutely!

Sarah  

And it's like, wool and silk...

Jojo  

It's alomost more historically accurate than some things you see today, on real people.

Sarah  

Yes!

Bronwen  

Honestly. Like, they're-- I think Rizzo wears this little smocked shirt.

Sarah  

He does. Yes.

Bronwen  

And it's... you can see all the hand smocking and it's all super tiny and you're just like, "oh my god, this is mind blowing."

Sarah  

Yes!

Jojo  

Uh-huh.

Bronwen  

So, at any rate, I would love to work with The Muppets, since forever.

Sarah  

We should do that. [laughs]

Bronwen  

Yeah, of the things I've done, I've done a lot of weird things in my life but that is not one of them. [all laugh]

Jojo  

Can we just start a small company and just like, market? Just say "Hey, we already do this for, like... just hire us as a team."

Sarah  

I actually-- I know some people who did some work with All Puppet Players in Fullerton, and for a while I was like, "Can I please...?" They were gonna do a puppet version of "Pride and Prejudice"...

Jojo  

Ooh!

Sarah  

...and I was like, "I need to be involved in this," and then I don't think they ever ended up doing it. And it was a huge disappointment to me because I wanted to make puppet clothes so bad I was like, "I will do this for free." [all laugh] "I desperately need to do this."

Bronwen  

Who knew that so many costumers are desperate to work at Jim Henson?

Jojo  

In small scale. [all laugh]

Sarah  

I know! It's fun because it's-- it's a different shaped body than we're used to.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Sarah  

It's tiny, and everybody loves tiny things.

Bronwen  

Yeah!

Sarah  

And then they can't complain.

Bronwen  

Yeah!

Sarah  

Like, the doll or the puppet can't talk back to you, to tell you that their neck is too itchy. You know?

Bronwen  

Right! Right. It's kind of the best of all worlds.

Jojo  

Right, yeah.

Sarah  

Exactly! [all laugh]

Jojo  

So funny. I never even thought about it that way but that's so true.

Bronwen  

I don't know I guess if you're...

Jojo  

Working with an inanimate object that doesn't talk back to me.

Bronwen  

I'm sure Miss Piggy would talk back to you.

Sarah  

Yeah, that's... yes. I wonder if-- that makes me wonder how Muppet fittings are run. [all laugh] Does the person who is the-- is the person operating it while you're doing the fitting, just to see how it... moves?

Jojo  

Talking back to you.

Sarah  

Yeah! And like, can they help themselves from talking while they're...

Jojo  

No.

Bronwen  

I'm sure they can't. I'm sure they can't.

Sarah  

Yeah, puppet people are like that.

Bronwen  

[laughs] "Puppet people."

Sarah  

We all know puppet people.

Jojo  

We know puppet people. [all laugh]

Sarah  

Some of the weirdest, and I mean this in the most loving way, some of the weirdest people I've ever worked with are the puppet people.

Bronwen  

I don't know if I've worked with a lot of puppet-- I don't think I've worked with any puppet people.

Jojo  

I was gonna say, I think both of you have worked with a lot more puppet people than I have. [laughs]

Sarah  

We've been doing a lot of puppets at SCR, for some reason. We did "Amos and Boris," and they made a giant whale puppet for that. I mean, it...

Jojo  

Wow.

Sarah  

...it was more of a... like, a vehicle? But they called it a puppet, you know, and it had to have a mouth that opened and stuff.

Bronwen  

Awesome.

Sarah  

And then we did "Mr Popper's Penguins," which had a bunch of penguins in it.

Jojo  

Oh, yeah.

Sarah  

Oh, and then I did "Flora and Ulysses," I was the assistant costume designer on that, where the squirrel was a puppet. So I feel like I've worked with fair amount of puppet designers. They're always really weird.

Bronwen  

Hmm.

Jojo  

Interesting.

Bronwen  

Well, that's fun. Good to know. I always like working with the weirdos, so.

Sarah  

Yeah, I mean...

Bronwen  

I fit in, you know.

Jojo  

We click together.

Sarah  

That is the beauty of theater, is that like... it's almost like joining the circus, right? Where it's a bunch of misfits coming together.

Bronwen  

Exactly. Exactly.

Jojo  

Very cool. Well, I don't know if I had any other specific questions, but I know we're nearing our time as well. I'm running at 52 minutes on my time.

Sarah  

That's pretty good, I think. We usually like to stay to an hour...ish. [all laugh] You know.

Bronwen  

Okay!

Sarah  

It's easy to get excited and then just get carried away.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

Especially when there's beautiful costumes to be looked at.

Bronwen  

I know, and every episode is honestly so well put together and everything. Like, I have favorite episodes that don't necessarily have my favorite costumes. So it was hard to choose what to talk about. So...

Jojo  

Yeah, I feel like the show also keeps it-- it keeps the storyline moving, but you're always-- there's always something in each scene. There's not a lot of dead space.

Bronwen  

Yeah.

Jojo  

If that makes any sense? Because I feel like sometimes--especially with historical period shows--sometimes they focus so much on the dead space, and the waiting, that you're just kind of like, "why is this in here?"

Bronwen  

Right.

Jojo  

Like I'm just sitting watching nature happen for 10 minutes. [laughs]

Bronwen  

That's definitely not happening. [laughs]

Jojo  

Definitely not.

Sarah  

I do feel like some period period pieces have a pacing issue.

Jojo  

Yeah.

Bronwen  

Mmhmm. I mean, Jane Austen... like, they're often just waiting for a letter, right, that's part of the book.

Jojo  

Right.

Unknown Speaker  

It's true.

Jojo  

But you know, I feel like... so I guess this isn't the best example, but the new "Pride and Prejudice." There's very intentional reasons for why she has those waiting periods. But then there's there's other versions of "Pride and Prejudice" where I'm just like, "Okay, we just watched them walk across the courtyard for 10 minutes." [all laugh] Like, let's get to the other side of the courtyard already.

Sarah  

Pick up the pace!

Bronwen  

It's hard to get away from our modern pacing, right?

Jojo  

[laughs] That's true.

Sarah  

Yeah, we're used to a lot of instant gratification and 10 minute YouTube videos, so...

Bronwen  

Yeah, yeah.

Jojo  

It's true.

Bronwen  

Definitely, I think it's hard.

Sarah  

You've got to find a way to get people to not stare at their phone while they're watching your show.

Bronwen  

Right. That's interesting you say that. "Dickinson," I never-- I never pick up my phone when I'm watching that show.

Sarah  

I feel like that's as good a testament as any to how good it is, you know?

Jojo  

Yeah, very true.

Bronwen  

But I will say, it's not for everybody. [laughs]

Jojo  

For the weirdos, maybe?

Bronwen  

It's definitely for the weirdos, it's for us weirdos.

Jojo  

Yes. Yeah, I definitely-- like I said, I'm only two episodes in but I'm really enjoying just everything about it right now.

Bronwen  

I'm so glad because I was wondering.

Jojo  

Thank you for the suggestion, Bronwen.

Bronwen  

Okay, good. Nothing worse than being like, "this is the best show!" And then everyone else was like, "no, this show is terrible. I don't understand why you like it." [all laugh]

Sarah  

Well if they don't like it, that's on them. That's not your fault.

Bronwen  

No, it's not. [all laugh]

Sarah  

So do you want to tell people where they can follow you on social media if they feel so inclined?

Bronwen  

Sure, so I'm on Instagram @queendeluxesew. And then, on YouTube at Queen DeLuxe, or you can look up Bronwen Burton. I don't know if you guys have swipe up yet, on your Instagram.

Sarah  

No. We sure don't.

Bronwen  

I don't either.

Sarah  

But we can tag you. We'll tag Bronwen on Instagram, and we'll also have it in the episode description, her social media and stuff.

Jojo  

I'll probably post it on YouTube as well. I might be able to just link it to your actual YouTube page.

Bronwen  

Yeah, so if you want to learn some sewing, you can check out my channel.

Sarah  

Or just watch her make cute vintage-y clothes.

Jojo  

It's pretty great.

Bronwen  

Yes, or some historical things too, way back there. Yeah.

Sarah  

Awesome.

Jojo  

Perfect! Thanks Bronwen.

Sarah  

Thank you so much for joining us. We had so much fun.

Bronwen  

Oh good. I did too, and my dogs didn't bark, which was a miracle. [all laugh]

Sarah  

I forgot about your dogs momentarily. Good dogs!

Jojo  

That's a good sign.

Bronwen  

I was waiting for them-- and we're going to have to stop our recording, or whatever, you're gonna have to do tons of editing, so I'm glad.

Sarah  

Yay!

Jojo  

I know, it worked out very well.

Sarah  

Good job, puppies.

Bronwen  

Good job, puppies.

Sarah  

Okay well.

Jojo  

Perfect!

Sarah  

Thanks for listening to The Costume Plot.

Jojo  

We're looking forward to next month where we'll be sharing a couple more movies. We're going to go back to covering movies again, but I know we're going to have more guest episodes in the future.

Sarah  

Most definitely.

Jojo  

Thanks for joining us.

Sarah  

Okay, bye bye.

Jojo  

Signing out!

Sarah  

Bye!