#shandom discourse
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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An interesting allusion in Cirque du Freak that Darren Shan 100% didn't intend:
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"Dante and the Leopard" by Gustave DorƩ
The leopard in Dante's Inferno appearing in Canto I, 31-33, is said to represent fraud and malice. Leopards, due to their patterning, are known as 'fraudulent' creatures because they attack by ambush and camouflage. Steve's character is marked by multiple instances of fraud, the most notable being his ability to blend into not only the vampaneze as a regular assistant but into Darren's friend group in Allies of the Night.
So, Steve 'The Leopard' Leonard was literally pinged as a devious, lying bastard in the first instance he's introduced.
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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And weā€™re back at it like a crack addict, people (bonus points if you know the line~)
1. Well, before the final book, Iā€™d say Mika. But after the final book, and with the confidence that Kurdaā€™s plan wouldā€™ve been successful, the new prince Kurda. Pacifist nature + an innate friendship with vampaneze = long life.Ā 
2. Havenā€™t read SLC, but from what I hear yes.Ā 
3. Darren! Dude turned into a vampire to save Steveā€™s life, protected Sam from the Wolfman and nearly died for it, participated in death trials just to protect Lartenā€™s reputation (really Larten? You couldnā€™t let your damn reputation take the hit for your stupid fucking mistake?) and a slew of other things. Darren goes to the plate and bats 100, give me that twerpy irishmen.Ā 
4. Tie between Larten/Darren and Gannen/Steve. They are stand-in father figures (one begrudgingly so) and thatā€™s how I like to keep them. But also, if I see any hate flung at any ship in this precious fandomĀ I will come down your fucking throat.Ā 
5. Well, Evra can speak English. And I feel like heā€™d be a Kansas fan...Ā 
6. Well, if we go with how the series ended, Mr. Tall lives an absurdly long time. But I think heā€™d like to retire soon, or at least divide up the responsibility. I actually feel like Truska would get it. Sheā€™s a mythical being and can live a long time, and I feel like the loss of her family makes the cirque even that much more important to her. Sheā€™s kind, caring, and fierce when she needs to be also.Ā 
7. Darren cause he has plot armor. Kurda would try to make nice with them and get eaten (jk but not really), Vancha and Arrow would try to fight the bastards head on, Paris is old as shit, and Mika would get killed trying to save Arrow or Paris. Larten would probably die saving Darren, and Gavner would probably follow suite. I could see Vanez living a long while, though...
8. Iā€™m not getting into my rant about the timeline reset and how everyone ignores that, we just gonna keep going boysĀ Ā but no one, honestly. If pressed, Iā€™d say Gavner or Sam, but I really think what is dead should stay dead. And then I would just be bringing them back for Darrenā€™s sake? Nah, fuck that. Bring back Gavner so he can see Liz again, and Sam so his parentā€™s know what happened to him. And, honestly, Darren already did that fuck, said I wasn't going to, but here I go by reseting his timeline. No one had to die, and maybe, in the new timeline, they still meet Darren in different ways. Maybe Sam and Darren meet at summer camp, Sam of course getting Darren hooked on pickled onions. Maybe Gavner and Larten run into Darren and Steve when theyā€™re much older and causing general havoc as teens are wont to do...Ā 
9. Love this ship, canon as far as Iā€™m fucking concerned. Kurda wanted to be buried with him, and asked for Glalda as well as their comrades to be laid to rest peacefully. I even make a little nod to Glurda in my fic in the most recent chapter...Ā 
10. We love Debbie in this house. She was placed in a strange position with Darren but stuck to her morals despite his strong and creepy advances. And then, when her students and life were threatened, she joined up with the Vampires and Alice to help recruit Vampirites and fight for the cause. Which, can we talk a bit about the problematic nature of that? The vampirites were mainly homeless people with no where to go, and offered food, shelter, and protection if they put themselves in dangerous situations against literal super-humans? Yet another post for another day...Ā 
But, love Debbie. The fandom should treat her better, and she deservers more development from the fandom.Ā 
Ah, I missed these~! Love me some Fight Me Fridays :D
And weā€™re back with another:
āœØFight me FridayāœØ
~part 6
1. Out of the 3 living princes (Mika, Arrow and Vancha), who do you think will live the longest and why?
2. Did Wester deserve to die?
3. Which character would you trust the most to have your back in battle?
4. What is your least favourite ship and why? (Please donā€™t judge others for liking or hating a different ship to yours, everyone is entitled to favour whatever ship they want to)
5. Would you rather be stuck in an elevator with Evra or Truska?
6. Who do you think will be the next owner of the Cirque du freak? Who will be in charge?
7. In a zombie apocalypse AU, which vampire is likely to survive the longest?
8. If you could bring back one deceased character and add them back into Darrenā€™s life, who would it be?
9. Thoughts on Kurda/Glada?
10. What do we think about Miss Debbie hemlock? šŸ˜
Questions 1, 2 and 3 were given by @theloyalravenclaw so thank you! If you have any questions youā€™d like to add to a Fight me Friday week, donā€™t be afraid to just drop me a dm and Iā€™ll add it in. (Preferably a dm just so next weeks questions arenā€™t spoiled for others šŸ„°šŸ‘)
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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Where do vampires come from?Ā 
Darren Shan has always been vague with his lore and mythology surrounding the vampires. He has yet to give concrete answers on the vampire gods, or the true origins of vampires. And after years of fan questions, we havenā€™t really gotten much out of him aside from generic tidbits.Ā 
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But, he did provide little kernels throughout the series and in Q/As that could point to an interesting creation myth based on real world history.Ā 
Based on my research and multiple readings of the series and manga, I have a theory:Ā Ā I propose that vampires came from Scythian Warriors drinking the blood of young men who failed the rite of passage at Lykaia and thus became wolves.Ā 
So, quick background for that statement above:Ā 
The term ā€˜Scythianā€™ refers to the nomadic peoples of middle Eurasia from the 11th century BC to the 2nd century AD. Scythia, a region roughly encompassing modern day Ukraine to Uzbekistan, was comprised of many different tribes in a loose empire. Scythian warriors were feared across East Europe and Eurasia for their prowess and brutality in battle. Common traditions of some tribes included scalping their enemies, drinking their blood, and cannibalizing them.Ā 
Now, Lykaia was an ancient Greek festival celebrated at the tallest peak of Mount Lykaion in the Arcadia region. During this festival, more so a secret rite of passage, young men were brought to the top of Lykaion and feasted on rich meats. Hidden in this feast was a single morsel of human entrails, and the man who ate this would turn into a wolf. This festival was born from the greek myth, but evidence of some kind of ritual was excavated from Lykaion.Ā If he didnā€™t consume human flesh till the next festival, he would turn back into a human. But, much like other myths of lycanthropy, these changed men had an insatiable bloodlust near impossible to resist.Ā 
If we combine the cannibalistic themes from both cultures, we can see the basis for Darren Shanā€™s version of vampires. The Scythianā€™s were a nomadic warrior culture that revered the strong and adopted pseudo-cannibalistic practices like blood drinking. We can assume that the strongest warriors partook in this tradition extensively, and that the slaying of a great wolf would be a great honor. Those that drank from these wolfmen may have noticed a boost to their strength and speed, and sought these man-eaters out for greater power. It could be akin to a blood disease, like how Crepsley describes Darrenā€™s purge. The wolfmenā€™s blood, touched by some higher deity some point back all the way to the Canaanite gods, would turn these warriors into a new race entirely.Ā 
According to Larten Crepsley, vampires are believed to be the descendants of wolves in some regards, but are still descendent of humans as well. The men transformed at Lykaion fit this mold well. As men once human, then cannibalized by other humans, this theory suffices both ends. This could also provide the answer to why vampires revere wolfs so greatly and why the wolves around vampire mountain are so trusting of them. But, for that, we need to look at some geography.Ā 
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I made this very basic map to layout where Lykaion is in relation to the tribes of Scythia. Iā€™m not a historian, so take all this with a grain of salt and understand that the dates and boarders are approximations.Ā 
I personally believe that Vampire Mountain is located in Romania within the Carpathian Mountains. There are many reasons for this, but one of the main reasons is that Transylvania and some of the first vampire myths in Europe originate from this area. And, looking at the map above, we can see that the proposed location for vampire mountain is between Lykaion and these nomadic tribes.Ā 
My theory proposes that the wolf men, driven out of the Greek city states, crossed paths with the Scythian warriors around modern day Romania and the surrounding areas. While some of these wolfmen were outright killed, some integrated into the local wolf population and created a subset of strong,Ā deity-touched wolves. The descendants of these wolves, connected to the vampires via this diefyed blood, roam around vampire mountain to this day.
This theory opens up some avenues to what the vampiric pantheon might entail. Lykaia is connected to Zeus, Pan, and, distantly, the Canaanite god Moloch. The Scythians were also polytheistic, but I honestly donā€™t know nearly enough about them to make any kind of call. But, as the series confirmed, the vampires have a pantheon of Gods.
Iā€™ll be doing more research on these cultures, and the cultures surrounding them to best formulate a loose vampiric pantheon. But, for now, thatā€™s my theory on the origins of vampires in DSā€™s series.
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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I like seeing how different people view SteveĀ ā€˜Leopardā€™ Leonard as a character.Ā 
So, Steve is one of my favorite characters from Cirque du Freak for a multitude of reasons; heā€™s a great villain, he drove the narrative, and he was just generally really fun to read.Ā 
He seems to be popular in the fandom, though interpretations of Steve rarely go past the surface. Since the series is told from Darrenā€™s POVĀ (and this is a childrenā€™s series, so I donā€™t blame DS for not having the most nuanced villain, but Steve still has his moments!) it makes total sense that the fandom would only see him as Darren saw him. But I really do enjoy thinking about characters in a fuller sense, and making them seem real or grounded in our world.Ā 
These head canons for Steve attempt to make him feel real and as more thanĀ ā€˜just the villainā€™ or just the general fandom interpretation. Theyā€™re inspired by the series, manga, and short story centered on Steve. These are general hcs about him and are a bit removed from the Vampaneze and Vampires. They make up his background in a sense, and in my head are true of all the AUs or timelines Iā€™d ever write with Steve. At some point, I may expand this to include my ideas on the Vampaneze and Steveā€™s role, but for now Iā€™ll discuss theĀ ā€˜lightā€™ hcs.Ā 
- Heā€™s Jewish and was raised on Orthodox Judaism.Ā 
- He was born on November 5th, 1987 in East London.Ā For our astrologers, thatā€™s a full moon.
- His mother, Sarah, left everything to him upon her passing including the house. He was her only living family. Steve never realized, no matter what AU or timeline, how much his mum loved him.Ā 
- His family was originally from Germany and Poland, but was moved to England at the end of WWII. His maternal grandmother was rescued by Kurda Smahlt, preserving his family line.Ā 
- He has a half-brother on his father sideā€™s after he re-married another woman. Steve hates his father, and hates his fatherā€™s new family even more.Ā 
- His mother became an alcoholic to cope with how her husband abused her. However, even after he left, her alcoholism became worse because she now had to care for Steve alone.Ā 
- Has an obsession for horror films! His favorite is Salemā€™s Lot, but he also loves the classic monster movies like Frankenstein, Dracula, and The Wolfman. Vampire movies, however, always have a special place in his heart: Fright Night, The Hunger, and The Lost Boys are just a few of his favorite. And, of course, he loves slashers- the bloodier the better! His obsession was born when his father let him watch horror films at a young age, Salemā€™s Lot being the first.
- Big fan of punk, rock, and metal. Loves The Sex Pistols, Black Sabbath and Ozzyā€™s solo work, and Jimi Hendrix.Ā 
- Sports are a way for Steve to let off excess aggression and steam. He plays rugby at school, and boxes with Tommy Jones. He also plays football with Darren from time to time, but not competitively since Darren smokes him.
- He has a wooden stake collection that he periodically adds onto. Since Steve is good with his hands, he likes to build weapons to keep himself busy. Youā€™ll usually find him in the basement whittling a new stake for his collection, or in his room calibrating a crossbow.
- Heā€™s basically a genius. Not really like a genius genius, but he does great in school despite not trying that hard. Heā€™s particular great at physics, calculus, and history.
- His full name is Stephen Ezekiel Leonard. No ones calls him ā€˜Stephenā€™ aside from his mother under limited circumstances. Either you call him ā€˜Steve,ā€™ ā€˜Leopard,ā€™ or nothing at all.
- He was a prankster as a child, but that grew into general delinquency like vandalism, joy-riding, and defacing of public property. He will slash your tires, break your windshield, and leave an ounce on your dashboard before tipping off the police if you cross him. And if you piss him off, then heā€™ll probably find someway to break your bones.
- The inverted cross he wears is actually a Petrine cross that Darren gave him.Ā 
What about yā€™alls head canons? Do you share any of these? Are your HCs popular or controversial? Do they completely contradict mine? Let me know!Ā 
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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I like seeing how differentĀ people view Darren Shan as a character.Ā 
Darrenā€™s a fun one because the only consistent trait we give him as a fandom is that he dumb as fuck. Which, like, hey! Not wrong there. But, well, I mean-come on- thereā€™s more to him, right?Ā 
Since I started writing fanfiction, my top priority was to make Darren feel real and like he could actually exist in our world. I know the character of Darren is essentially a self-insert for the author, so I took and modified things from his life so that Darren was both true to the source material but separate from the author as an entity.Ā 
So, a few personal, lightweight head canons of mine:
- He was raised Roman Catholic, and still retains some of his faith. His father and mother are very religious, but Darren isnā€™t nearly as zealous.Ā 
- He was born in Dublin in 1988, but his family moved to London when he was four.Ā 
- He speaks a little bit of Gaelic, but only when heā€™s on the phone with his grandmother.Ā 
- His father hates living in London, but Darren calls it home. He doesnā€™t have many memories of Dublin, aside from visiting his grandparents.
- Heā€™s a huge fan of classic metal and rock bands like Black Sabbath, DIO, and Judas Priest.Ā 
- Big horror movie fan! Not nearly as obsessed with them as Steve, but loves monster movies and sci-fi the most. The Fly and Kingdom of the Spiders are his favorite.Ā 
- Loves comic books, and has a peculiar obsession with Spawn.Ā 
- He is amazing at football, but couldnā€™t really get into other sports. Rugby didnā€™t excite him, he wasnā€™t a huge fan of boxing like Tommy and Steve, and baseball just seemed boring. Much like the books, I still see Darren as this stellar football player no matter what AU, timeline off-shoot, or reality heā€™s in.Ā 
- Heā€™s great at English, foreign languages, history, and geography. Very right-brained all the way around, so subjects like maths, chemistry, and physics were never his strong suit.Ā 
- In addition to journaling, he writes short stories. He enjoys writing slice of life, fantasy, and modern realism.Ā 
- He can speak French, English, Latin, and Gaelic. He learned French from Larten, but Paris taught him the bulk of Latin and Gaelic. Fun little bonus head canon: Paris can speak French, Spanish, Portuguese, Gaelic, Latin, Old English, and Greek.
- His favorite books are Lord of the Rings, The Hounds of Baskervilles, and A Midsummer Nightā€™s Dream.Ā 
- Darren has a hand for sketching, and likes to draw diagrams of plants and spiders in their natural habitat.Ā 
- The boy has very little common sense. Heā€™s a bit too trusting, he has a shoddy filter, and just canā€™t stay quiet. Despite that, he really does try to think before he speaks. But some dumb shit still escapes out.Ā 
What about yā€™alls head canons? Do you share any of these? Are your HCs popular orĀ controversial? Do they completely contradict mine? Let me know!Ā 
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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Well, if we look at pro-athletes, they donā€™t start experiencing pain till much later on in life and this is only if theyā€™ve experienced some kind of injury.Ā Ā 
So, if we look at Vampires, middle age is about 380 to 550 (human equivalent of late thirties to mid-fifties) so this would be the time they begin to experience the affects of aging on their numerous injuries. And since they put their bodies through much more than the average human, I think despite their thickened cartilage they would still feels those effects because the extended life has therefore worn down their joints over a longer period of time.Ā 
However, we rarely see any vampires or vampaneze older than 400. So, most vampires probably donā€™t live long enough (thanks to their blood-sport, devil may care life style) to experience the dregs of aging.Ā 
But for those that slip past the 400 year mark? Lots of ale and those weird mushrooms Vancha carries around to drown out the pain.
Headcanon that all vampires over 100 have really shitty joints. All that movement wearing away at your cartilage for decades???? Baby no. Babes your gonna be so creaky. Unless vampires just have a thing where their cartilage is just like- super tough and long lasting.
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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CDF Characters as Zodiac Signs
Someone whoā€™s more into astrology than I am: What the hell are the CDF characterā€™s zodiac signs???Ā 
I got a working list going, but like I fucking know what any of this means šŸ˜­Ā 
Aries - Arra
Taurus - Alice
Gemini - Seba
Cancer - Darren
Leo - Vancha and Gannen
Virgo - Paris
Libra - Evanna
Scorpio - Steve, obviously.Ā 
Sagittarius - LartenĀ 
Capricorn - DariusĀ 
Aquarius - Mr. Tall
Pieces - Debbie
And, look, this all started cause I was trying to get birthdates for Darius and Steve to map out some timeline bullshit in a fic... and then this all just sorta happened.Ā 
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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Serotonin for fanfic writers: Finding that perfect song for your OTP.Ā 
Iā€™ve had that exact same moment when I wrote chapter 6 of Idiot Savant! Well, it wasnā€™t for Starren, but a heartfelt moment between Steve and his mum :D
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This dives into some personal head canons of mine, but Iā€™m a sap for folksongs and lullabies. I always appreciated DSā€™s writing, but I really wanted it to be more grounded and concrete with the real world, so I thought of attaching Steve and Darrenā€™s families to real world cultures. This song did that for Steveā€™s relationship with his mum. I just thought of his mum missing her son and trying to connect with him, and then remembering how sheā€™d sing this to him when he was a baby. Ugh, this one hurts meĀ šŸ˜­
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Not to be fucking obnoxious but I PEAKED when I chose these song lyrics for parallel chapter titles + summaries. This song was more perfect for this ending than I couldā€™ve imagined.
The Bon Iver parts are Mikaā€™s POV and the Taylor parts are Kurdaā€™s.
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festivaloftheundead Ā· 4 years ago
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Great discourse! Iā€™ve been pondering what to add to this, if anything. I donā€™t really have a lot to add, seeing as I certainly donā€™t disagree with anything thatā€™s been said. But figured I might as well throw my two cents in.
While Iā€™m perpetually on team ā€œimagine it in whichever way produces the most serotoninā€ I appreciate that we are able to intelligently critique the more flawed aspects of this culture and these characters as a fandom. Iā€™ve honestly never seen anyone express these opinions until like this year. (Which isnā€™t to say it hasnā€™t happened - I just havenā€™t seen it, therefore havenā€™t thought about it).
Iā€™ve always leaned heavily into an idealized version of Vampire Mountain, and the older I get the more I acknowledge and respect that there is a HIGH degree of separation between the world that exists in my head, and that which exists in canon. More than once this year Iā€™ve been writing/thinking/meme-ing/headcanoning and thought to myself, ā€œwhile this concept makes ME happy as a casual content creator, this wouldnā€™t fly in the canonical realmā€. So yeah, while I still put on my clown wig and rose coloured glasses (as Iā€™ve been doing faithfully since 2008), whatā€™s different now is that I proceed with the understanding and acceptance that the source material is a hell of a lot more complex than Iā€™m giving it credit for. Personally I use fanfiction as an outlet for my ~cReAtIvItY~ and Iā€™ve never been more acutely aware of the fact that the content I write would not pass as ā€œdeleted scenesā€ or ā€œwhat ifā€™sā€ from canon. Itā€™s just not compatible. Iā€™ve had to separate it from canon entirely in order to justify it to myself. While it runs parallel with canon, itā€™s DEFINITELY an AU. Because it has to be. But thatā€™s a different dissertation that Iā€™m not entirely sure if I ever want to get into.
I feel like itā€™s hard to convey my thought process without coming across as defensive, I swear thatā€™s not the case. I guess I just hate the thought of anyone out there thinking less of me because of how I choose to contextualize events/characters? (And I know thatā€™s not what yā€™all are getting at here, donā€™t worry. Thatā€™s just me being unnecessarily self-conscious). @nomiliy absolutely nailed it with her point about it being comfort series - that shoe fits me, and I wear it. In my own personal case, Iā€™m an entire adult with limited time and energy to put into fandom so when I delve back into my long-beloved fictionland, I do it in a way that makes me feel happy - as we all should. Otherwise whatā€™s the point? Obviously that looks different for all of us so Iā€™m only speaking for myself here. I wouldnā€™t go so far as to say I ignore the many issues, or the VERY VALID points that are being made because let me be clear - thereā€™s not a single thing here I disagree with and I donā€™t want to come across as dismissive. In order to celebrate CDF in order to get what I need from it (and what I need is strictly serotonin because 2020 SUCKS) to put it as simply as possible, I need to walk in the light. And again, I hope this does not come across as defensive because that is in no way my intention. Thereā€™s no wrong way to interpret and celebrate media and reflective criticism is a GREAT THING.
More than anything else, Iā€™m delighted to see ANY sort of Shandom discourse (or literally any content at all) in the year (of our vampaneze lordā„¢ļø) 2020 !!!!
i rlly hate th fact that the fandom makes crepsley a ā€œā€ā€father figureā€ā€ā€ bc bitch he literally ruined a childā€™s life? and tbh the effects that that would have had on darren r never rlly addressed in the book or anyone ive seen? like see he Knew what he wld b getting the kid into if he were 2 become a vampire and what reason did he have? he was being petty? literally what? he knowingly threw like a literal Baby into a world of hell and then he didnā€™t even like... rlly make up for it? (part 1)
Points are being made.
PS Iā€™m at work rn hence short replies but ur not wrong. I think itā€™s supposed to illustrate how ~~~destiny~~~ drove that ill-advised decision, but like yeah basically.
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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Iā€™m so glad you brought up Darrenā€™s sense of free will in the final books! While I do love the personification of Destiny (literal Desmond Tiny) I never liked how he was used in canon and fanon to wash away out-of-character moments and the bad choices of some characters. Darren is kinda the ultimate proof for both Tinyā€™s power and his limits. Tiny can tempt someone, but he can never force someone.
Iā€™ve compared Steve to Creature from Frankenstein in the past, but Mordred seems like another great fit! Self-fulfilling prophecies are rampant in literature, but my favorite examples are probably the biblical or Miltonic iteration of Lucifer, and Oedipus Rex. More often than not, these figures are used to show how you canā€™t escape Destiny, and how no matter the choice you make that Destiny will come and often by your own hand. I wouldnā€™t call Steve an anti-hero, especially since the story is from Darrenā€™s POV, but I still think heā€™s an interesting character to explore.
But also, another weird bit of discourse, Mordred is a child of incest, right? That is grounds enough for him to be theĀ ā€˜villain.ā€™ Medieval Western literature often depicts the children of incest as either physically or spiritually corrupt, or both, and that wouldĀ line up with what little I know of the tale. And, while I appreactie the post you linked too, I most appreacte the author stating that when compared to modern times, Arthurian legend is fucked. Which, it is, but removing a piece of work from itā€™s time can hinder the message. Looking at the time this was made and the Christ symbolism, thereā€™s an amount of theological predeterminism to this tale. No matter what you do, whether you try to prevent something or ignore it, the event still passes. The argument there, of course, is that if people have free will then how can everything be pre-determined? My thought has always been that if an all powerful being knows what you will do with free will, then the choice you made was always going to be the choice you made unless an outside force (like a god) intervenes. So, what we call predetermination is just events caused by freewill playing out and an outside force letting us know those events in advance, thereby creating a paradox. But, whole other conversation there.
In a weird way, Steve and Darren represent the two sides of that argument from a religious perspective. Steve, consumed by rage and hatred, turned into the very thing I think Larten was trying to prevent. That argument being Larten, concerned with Steveā€™s evilness, denied him vampiric tranformation out of fear that power would only feed his darker nature, but thatā€™s a more complicated issue... Darren, on the other hand, witnessing the horror of this Destiny defined world enlisted the help of another god to literally usurp destiny. So, we literally have pre-destination vs free-will in the ending of book 12.
Marvelous the things we do in the shandom!
steve šŸ¤ mordred: being told theyre evil for literally no reason and it backfiring bc self fulfilling prophecy
As an English major and someone who holds a Masters degree, I shamed myself for not knowing who Mordred wasšŸ˜­
Yet another collection of books going on the reading list.
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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In all fairness to the OP, Iā€™m pretty sure Iā€™ve seen that floating around (or at least that same sentiment) since I was in middle school. My thoughts are that this person (and actually, kind of a lot of us and myself included) grew up with this idea that if a guy is nice to you then you shouldĀ ā€˜give him a chance.ā€™ I think that person was probably projecting that same idea onto Darren and Debbieā€™s relationship. He was nice to her, he saved her life many times, of course she owes him something.Ā 
Not excusing it at all, but when you grow up with that itā€™s very hard to unlearn that kind of mentality. Especially when at first the idea is received very well then blasted a few years later. With that post, I remember lots of fans citing that as the reason they didnā€™t like Debbie. They felt that Debbie breeched some unspoken agreement and for that she failed as the love interest for not beingĀ  ā€˜trueā€™ to Darren. Which is just wildly toxic for everybody, especially the young girls who would read those books and their first thought isĀ ā€œOh, well, Iā€™d do that for Darren.ā€ But, again, I get it but itā€™s important to unlearn that kind of toxicity. (Feel like thatā€™s the essence of all my discourse?Ā ā€˜Yeah, this is terrible, but I get it.ā€™)Ā 
I think, strangely enough, my favorite moments with Debbie were in book 8 when we see her struggle with her feelings for Darren. She knows they are mentally the same age, but his physical body and the fact that heā€™s her student now has her questioning their power dynamic. I donā€™t see a lot of YA do that, and I donā€™t think DS meant for it to read that deep, but I do find that part of Debbie incredibly complex: Sheā€™s willing to examine her feelings and recognize some kind of imbalance in their dynamic and ā€˜correctā€™ her behavior.Ā 
Okay I love Darren Shan but I still cannot believe he cited inability to bear children as the main reason there are less female vampires than males.
Like dude Iā€™d join the clan for the infertility alone.
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nomiliy Ā· 4 years ago
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Another note to the theory-
The wolfman is intriguing given this context. Like a lot of things from Cirque du Freak, Darren Shan rarely scraps past the surface with his world-building. But he included a lot of details to support and expand the world that the fans could reasonably pick up. No shade to DS, I love that man and I love that he left so much open for interpretationā¤ļø
I think the existent of the wolfman adds to the above theory given what we know; he's a mindless creature of carnage, no one knows anything about him, and his physical appearance appears to be caught between a man and a wolf.
I think he could've been a man caught at an in-between stage of the Lykaia transformation. If he, while still human, only partially consumed the morsel of flesh during the feast, then his physical appearance would reflect that. And, over time, his mind deteriorated to the state we see in the first few books.
Where do vampires come from?Ā 
Darren Shan has always been vague with his lore and mythology surrounding the vampires. He has yet to give concrete answers on the vampire gods, or the true origins of vampires. And after years of fan questions, we havenā€™t really gotten much out of him aside from generic tidbits.Ā 
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But, he did provide little kernels throughout the series and in Q/As that could point to an interesting creation myth based on real world history.Ā 
Based on my research and multiple readings of the series and manga, I have a theory:Ā Ā I propose that vampires came from Scythian Warriors drinking the blood of young men who failed the rite of passage at Lykaia and thus became wolves.Ā 
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dryiceball Ā· 4 years ago
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Ohhhh my goodness letā€™s go my time has come! I did my best to pair everyone with a single place, but itā€™s a little hard to just fit square pegs into round holes you know? Also this is based on what Iā€™ve seen in my friends and others around me+celebrities in these specific zodiacs.
My personal opinion is this;
Aries: it depends on if itā€™s later or earlier, but Vancha, Aries men are absolute chaos later in the section, but theyā€™re also pretty high (hah) intuition, good leaders in my opinion! (Think Julien Solomita)
Taurus: all Taurus are hot prove me wrong lol, Arrow! Honestly I was going to put him in Libra as I like to think of him as all soft with the people he love all willy-nilly out and about (please bear with my mind) but I thought he belongs in the ā€˜strong silent but mild heartedā€™ role more.
Gemini: Arra, Gemini women tend to be hard to place down in one spot and be like, content with it. They like to be in control of themselves, tell me that isnā€™t an Arra trait! They will absolutely break your heart, please, theyā€™re so easy to fall in love with because of the strong agenda.
Cancer: the thing most people get right about Cancers is that they are āœØdifficultāœØ to understand emotionally at times, and emotion is at a high if theyā€™re not fully under control. Tbh I might say Gavner for the simple fact I think heā€™d be a big ball of emotion if he wasnā€™t so distracted with all he has going on with work. (Like I said itā€™s kinda hard to shoehorn people into everything)
Leo: Steve, Leoā€™s have this weird effortless charm around them, of course there are exceptions lmao, but they really do call a room theyā€™ve stepped in. (You do really well with the Steve swagger btw) They also do tend to be successful and commandeering in situations where it benefits them or those close to them.
Virgo: Darren, virgos like to HELP WHEREVER THEY CAN! Darren is the most likely to be there for someone when they most need him with either a good ear or a dumb joke to try and make you feel better you know? Heā€™s a dumbass yeah but pretty empathetic and sympathetic with all heā€™s been through. He a true homie through and through.
Libra: I feel like Debbie is more of a Libra, sweet and dainty at the first look but has a bit of an iron fist, very set in their ways and absolutely WILL fight you about it (One of my best friends is a Libra and heā€™s INSUFFERABLE when you try to make him think in another way, same with a few others)
Scorpio: Gannen, love me some Scorpio men! I personally donā€™t think I know any but Iā€™ve done a little research in celebrities and they tend to be the pretty boys with and Gannen is Very Pretty ā„¢ļø. They tend to be a little tougher in the emotions area than most (if Iā€™m right I donā€™t think he really acknowledged Vancha much when they saw eachother again???? I could be wrong but I donā€™t have the books to look it up sorry!)
Sagittarius: Sam, Saggā€™s are light and curious and want to be out with the people, know them, love them, be them. Theyā€™re absolutely not stupid but they have the tendency to ā€˜mansplainā€™ things, they donā€™t intend to make you feel stupid they just want you to know lol.
Capricorn: Contrary to popular belief, CAPS ARE FUCKING COOL I LOVE THEM! Theyā€™re so determined and set in what they do to better the masses and I give it to KURDA (you do get the odd Crapricorn tho Iā€™ll admit)
Aquarius: AH YES MY SIGN! Not all of us are these weird star child aliens I assure you! We are very detached in relationships though, familial and romantic. BUT!!!! we get really into learning what others like to do and do those things with them! Weā€™re a curious type but thereā€™s a limit to our love, conditional I guess lmaoo. Iā€™d probably give this one to Mika. (Though I was going to go with Larten but Iā€™m a little biasedšŸ˜…šŸ˜…)
Pisces: okay listen, Larten, in my experience Pisces are very high emotion no thought along with cancer, but Pisces are more spur of the moment emotional, heā€™s shown many times where he doesnā€™t think of the repercussions of his actions before acting and running his mouth.(no shade to yā€™all I love them, my mumā€™s a Pisces šŸ˜…)
CDF Characters as Zodiac Signs
Someone whoā€™s more into astrology than I am: What the hell are the CDF characterā€™s zodiac signs???Ā 
I got a working list going, but like I fucking know what any of this means šŸ˜­Ā 
Aries - Arra
Taurus - Alice
Gemini - Seba
Cancer - Darren
Leo - Vancha and Gannen
Virgo - Paris
Libra - Evanna
Scorpio - Steve, obviously.Ā 
Sagittarius - LartenĀ 
Capricorn - DariusĀ 
Aquarius - Mr. Tall
Pieces - Debbie
And, look, this all started cause I was trying to get birthdates for Darius and Steve to map out some timeline bullshit in a ficā€¦ and then this all just sorta happened.Ā 
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