cornflakesdoesart

[c1trvswurld]

Finally glad the mouthwashing fandom-at least on here- is finally coming around to see the idea that neither curly or jimmy are completely innocent nor should be babied or completely villainized because to do that you'd need to *checks notes*

Completely ignore how mouthwashing is a story of how systems of abuse are kept in power. Particularly rape culture and the patriarchy that encourages these actions while also encouraging bystander effect from other men close to predators...which is all encouraged under a system like capitalism.

Idk read more of tha rant in tags I got carried away I fear.

[mysticalcats]

da crew

[criticalamityz]

you were still budding

[crazycookieraider]

One detail I haven't seen people point out is how whenever we see Jimmy sitting in the cockpit, he is ALWAYS seated in the left seat. And at least in aviation, the left seat is considered the Captain's seat, while the right seat is the Co-Pilot's (First Officer's) seat.

Remember the start of the game, when the course needs to be corrected to avoid the crash? He purposefully steers it wrong using the Captain's yoke. So even if they all survive the crash, even if they all end up being rescued, the blame would fall onto Curly.

Plus, even when he's in the cockpit together with Curly, getting his psych eval done and being asked a very direct question of "Have you been able to complete your mandated tasks as a Co-Pilot efficiently?" he is casually answering it while sitting in someone else's seat.

Cool bit of foreshadowing imo, but also shows how damn OBSESSED and petty Jimmy was from the very start.

[mixalicious]

while obv i dont think curly is on the same level as jimmy, when you’re in anyas position people who are complicit in abuse, either intentionally or not, can feel just as bad as the actual perpetrators

anya obviously did still love curly, she loved him until she died, but i cant even begin to imagine the emotions she was probably feeling having to deal with and care for curly post-crash, loving him while still knowing he was complicit in her suffering (also adding onto the fact she felt responsible for what she thought he had done)

curly wanted to “sort out a miscommunication”

curly believed his own biases over the proof that was standing right in front of him

he didnt want to report that jimmy had raped anya and he basically paid the ultimate price for it

[dykedvonte]

I think how Swansea and Curly treat Anya telling them about Jimmy is so interesting.

I know I just mentioned it but it’s stuck in my head how Swansea already disliked Jimmy. Immediately believed her but he still didn’t do anything to actually stop him and help her. He listened and accepted it, and that must’ve been a relief compared to Curly who listened but didn’t. But it still left her vulnerable and without whatever emotional support Curly did supply her. His inaction is only different because his position on the crew is different. But after the crash, did that really matter?

Like in the end Swansea really was only trying to avenge Daisuke and used Anya’s treatment from Jimmy as an accelerant to kill him, but he still did nothing for her.

[my-thoughts-and-junk]

i can't tell if i'm just not paying attention or if mouthwashing just doesn't make any sense

[lovetogether]

Something we liked about mouthwashing is that it had characters which fit into the “ostracized by society” group but made it very clear these people were much different from the actual perpetrator. It’s too often “social fuck-ups” are lumped together, giving true abusers a place to hide. Pointing that shit out as what it is and that it’s very much NOT the same as, say, being an alcoholic, meant a lot to us. One is a place somebody lands in, the other is an act the person in question has full control over.

[no-sex-in-your-violence]

I think, actually, the fact that Curly is unable to close his eye(s) during the events of the game is part of the symbolism of his fate. Yes, his ever-staring, ever accusing eye is there to convict Jimmy but there's another aspect there. Curly's inability to see how bad Jimmy is has turned into an inability to NOT see it.

[shit-the-vampyr-cast-never-said]

Edgar: I don’t necessarily believe any of this, I’m just saying words recreationally.

[c1trvswurld]

Idk why. Like genuinely need to analyze and ask myself why but everytime I see fanart of anya being extremely doting on curly I just dislike it lol. It leaves a weird taste I'm my mouth how she feels like she's just there to love on him and help him...idk it's probably some bias I need checked but to hear her plot line and see people make it so her existence and her worth (specifically what ahe is able to give to others) is still wrapped around another man. A man albeit WAAAY better than jimmy...still makes me feel odd I fear for no solid reason

[alex-iwobi]

finding out haaland used to be a huge fan of a former swansea player…you will never be me erling

[asterroses]

honestly i dunno if i can choose a fave out of the mouthwashing cast but i will say curly has been fucking lodged in there . i can't stop thinking abt him n how human he is and how shit he is at enabling jimmy and not listening to anya but also . . . . . . . i mean this dude Does care abt his team but his friendship w jimmy bcauses him to turn a blind eye to how awful that man is to everyone and everything around him . . . god . ofufughghfjhhfhgjgh captain my captain . . . . what have you wrought . . . . . . .

[apocalyptic-dancehall]

pouring my heart out for a game i know about for like days at max

[numetalkitty]

i feel insane because i feel like everyone watched mouthwashing and was so focussed on the characters specifically as individuals that no one was looking at any broader themes or ideas that the game explores.

consider: the horror of realizing that the thing that the crew has spent literal years of their life shipping on extremely dangerous missions that have now led to their horrific deaths was mouthwash came from themes of labour exploitation. the fact that they spent every day fighting for their lives (which is referenced many times both before and after the crash), fighting to become the 'comfortable worker' (which is an idea both the cartoons on the tv and swansea in his final monologue explore) and it all was only so that some big company that didnt care to even give them real food or real medical professionals could ship mouthwash. that is the real horror of the scene where they uncover the mouthwash.

jimmy and curlys whole dynamic rests upon the struggle between the concept that if you just work harder, climb higher, do something bigger and better, you will eventually achieve happiness and success. the lie that capitalism sells, that every worker (if they try hard enough) has the opportunity to be the one at the top. curly made it to top, and had to realize that all that being at the top meant was to become the exploiter instead of the exploited. the gun assigned to be used by the captain only (the boss) is clearly labelled in jimmys inventory as being a 'protection device' meant to be used when the other workers on the ship get out of line. jimmy got to the top too, and we can very literally see demonstrated how he had to step over the bodies of many other people in order to make it there. swansea again points out this same thing in his final monologue, and additionally at the birthday party, describing how fictional all of these promises of success and happiness really are. jimmy literally sends daisuke through a vent that he knew was dangerous where he ends up mangled and dying, simply because thats his job and thats daisukes job. jimmy is in the role of the captain, he has to tell the others to risk their lives to achieve an end and daisuke as the subordinate has no choice but to do it. jimmy specifically invokes his authority as the captain when he tells him to do this.

the themes that we see constantly repeated throughout the game (as opposed to the one off character moments that everyone else seizes on) are themes of the capitalist/corporate promise that being a good worker, a hard worker, means that you will be happy and successful. the theme of climbing up the corporate ladder and being the one in control. the theme of having labour exploited and companies showing willful disregard for the lives of their workers. companies cutting corners and how that results in the death of workers. the idea that no one will find them or care- because no one does. these are the overarching ideas that are way more important to understanding the game than specific character interactions that dont carry throughout the game.

[dykedvonte]

I think it’s so ironic that the Pony Express escapes a lot if not all blame in discussion. I can’t even say I am excused from it but it’s just how hard people circle back to the characters alone without considering the environment they were made to be in.

Why would they design a ship where only two of the rooms lock? Not the bathroom? Not the sleeping quarters? We assume that all the companies in the universe are this shallow and careless to their workers but we explicitly know the Pony Express in extra vile. They are fed processed slop pack they can’t even really cook and the ration of those pack is meager at best. They hired and made people with a plethora of conflicting demeanors and beliefs work together on a mission where cohesion is important if not an outright necessity and punish them for not being happy about it. There’s no social protocols, not chain of command other than Captain’s word/choice and the only way to enforce that is with a literal firearm. They don’t allow them to celebrate freely and even took away leisure activities that would make them less stir crazy. They are only allowed a few hours of sleep despite their being no other real responsibilities or work on the ship, no matter the position or its importance. With any crew, with any level of synergy, this was a powder keg waiting for a spark.

I’m not saying characters that made mistakes didn’t make huge ones, but I think part of the horror is that at least for some (this is targeting Jimathan) those mistakes are partly made by a force of the hand. There’s a running theme of lack of choice and being forced into something and the very nature of how The Pony Express expected them to function plays a big part.