#same tagging system as main so filter to your hearts content is desired

[devinwolfi]

anyways uh. side blog @devinsfwolfi

[criscura]

Re:Re:Re:Sexualising Genos (sorry)

Hi, same anon, just like to clarify a couple of things @sinsually rebutted. (Sorry criscura I just wanted to clear something up)

You misunderstand me. My response was regarding why people sexualised Genos. I admit wholeheartedly it stemmed from a frustration from seeing it everywhere and I agree, tagging and filtering out the content we see isn’t easy or possible in tumblr. I even used patronising, condescending language that was in no way suited to a conducive discussion.

BUT, I’d just like to point out, my response “what does this say about us” is in reference to criscura’s original post about how we sexualise Genos “BECAUSE WE WANT TO SEE HIM MATURE AND BE IN A HAPPY RELATIONSHIP.” I’d like to raise the same point as you being that we should not generalise the fandom to think the same way. As I said, and I think you’ll agree, some people are just doing it for the jollies. Others may not be.

My main point was: People sexualise Genos for very different reasons and it would be naive and ignorant to say (as criscura did) that it was because we want him to be happy because we use him as a proxy to be happy. 

Therefore, I AGREE with you. If it says something about us, it doesn’t say anything in particular.  Especially not that “we want to see a character we relate to end up happy”. Sexualising Genos is not about that. That is my argument. 

When I bring up canonisation and being ‘in character’, I mean “if you’re going to talk about creating situations to see Genos happy, once you’re out of canon (as many depictions are), you’re not really looking at Genos as a character anymore. I acknowledge this is arguable. Characterisations and headcanons can vary. What I’m trying to say is that criscura’s main point about sexualising Genos being "an easy way for us to see a character we love fulfill some of his desires, and also gives us hope because seeing a character we relate to end up happy despite the odds being against them means there’s a chance for us too” is naive and generalising.

This is what I mean by projecting onto a 'character we love’.

TLDR; I do not agree that this is 'our character’, it is 'your character’ that you are sexualising, that you are 'making happy.’ Often, it is not a Genos I recognise. 

And while I recognise that 'people have their own fan interpretation’ that is not the issue here. The issue is, it is not his desires you are fulfilling, but your own. Sexual, non-sexual, whatever purposes it may be. It’s not that innocent, it’s self-indulgent, wish-fulfillment and all I’d like is for people to acknowledge that.

~~~~ 

((Submission from the Anon who initially replied to my post, answering sinsually’s reply!))

Thank you for sending this!! I agree with mostly everything, except for the idea that sexualizing Genos (or giving him other desires) is only to serve ourselves, and not because we want to see him happy. I genuinely believe that can come from a good place, and it is not inherently selfish, self-serving, or bad. I think, though, that a lot of our disconnect is coming from how we define characters, because I think you bring up a lot of really good points and it doesn’t make sense that we’re coming to completely opposite conclusions given that we have similar thought processes up until that point.

Ah...this...got quite long, and I didn’t mean for it. The rest of my answer is under the cut @////@

I suppose....I can see sexualization as a form of well-wishing because that’s how I see sex a lot of the time--if someone is going out, and they look really nice, I’ll give them a quiet cheer that they get good and fucked if that’s what they’re looking for, and can leave the interaction happier than when they went into it. It’s not because I want to see them having sex--if I wanted that, I would just watch porn. It’s because I want them to have it if that’s something they’re looking for, and because it’s nice to think you can go out and just...have a good time, without anything negative happening afterwards. That might sound ideal or sickeningly sweet, but it’s true, and I approach the characters I love the same way. 

Maybe it is naive to think many other people do the same, but even if it isn’t to the degree that I do it myself, I stand by the idea that it does happen and it’s not self-serving. Although I will concede that!!--I do enjoy seeing NSFW art of Genos/Saitama just on a sexual gratification level. For me, though, knowing that they’re enjoying it is extremely important. Otherwise I don’t want it, and it does seem like it’s the same way for a lot of fans. Of course it isn’t okay to generalize, so it wasn’t okay to think most people do. I....I don’t want to discredit fans though--I really, honestly think that there’s more heart than, ah....”head,” so to say, in OPM art. But again, that could be me being naive, and I admit and accept that.

However, I think...from what you’re explaining, our interpretations of a character--or at least the definitions of a story’s character!--are different, and I think that’s where some of the disconnect is coming from. From what I’m getting, you’re saying that a character is rooted indefinitely within their story, and if they have not been written/shown/described doing something as part of the story, then canonically they haven’t done it and cannot do it. Anything and everything else counts as outside the story, thus not canon, and enters the world of fandom, so it’s not the story’s character but the fan’s character.

Under that definition I would say no, Genos is not sexual and can’t be, because (like I said before) sexuality is absent in OPM (not that I think it can’t exist, just that it’s a huge white space that--if I’m remembering right--ONE has mentioned was left out because it doesn’t affect the main plot at all). It hasn’t happened in the show; we haven’t seen it.

On my end, though, a see a character as their own entity, capable of being able to separate from their story, and one that carries their own story with them. Mm.... I suppose I can explain it as while the way you seem to be explaining characters, the story that they’re part of is an intricate clockwork where the characters are the gears, and each is perfect for their given purpose...unless they are altered in any way by someone who isn’t the clock’s creator, in which case they won’t be able to fulfill that purpose and they’ll jam the entire system, because they didn’t create it and they don’t understand how it’s meant to work. On the other hand I see a story as the open windows/doors into a stuffed building that’s filled with characters that are all doing their own thing, and the scenes we see just happen to be what was visible through the window or door at that moment--what happens behind the walls is open to interpretation, and so long as it gets you from one window to the next in a believable way, then it could have happened that way.

Sorry to get a bit off-track there, but I said all that to explain that I think, so long as what fans come up with is in-character based off of what we’ve seen happen--that they have reasons to explain why they think a character would do such-and-such thing, and not just “I want to see it happen that way,”--then it could have happened that way. That’s why I think sexualizing them, and in turn Genos, is just another way that fans are thinking about him in order to better understand him. Sure, they may make self-indulgent porn, but so much of NSFW art is about what fans think the characters’ wants, needs, and desires are given what's happened in the story. And because I feel like a great deal of the OPM fandom is generally positive, and because it seems to be close to a lot of fans’ hearts, I think they’ll remember to take that into consideration. 

I also said it to explain why I think we agree on so many points, but diverge on that one, and to again emphasize I think what you’re saying is totally valid. We’re operating under different ideas. But like you mentioned!! Everyone is open to their own interpretations and their own headcanons, and that is absolutely okay, because we’re all allowed to freely theorize and wonder about characters and stories that we love. 

OH MY GOSH I reread this to post it and I realized I barely addressed using Genos as a proxy to happiness... I would normally go back and fix each section, but I will admit that I’ve spent about an hour and a half writing this and I’ve plain-old run out of time, so I have to address it in its own section here. Also please forgive me if this is confusing--I’m so tired, but I want to answer fully.

I suppose....I.... I can’t understand why that’s bad, and why it would count as glorifying something shameful. I’m not saying that as an accusation!! I’m not trying to sling that as an insult to make your point seem unaccredited, unfounded, or unreasonable. It’s simply that....well, why else do we have stories, except to relate to them and to have their characters push us and inspire us in other situations? This sounds sentimental, I know that, but if a character is close to us, if we look up to them and think we’re similar to them, why wouldn’t we imagine what they would do in certain situations, and try to act in the way they would? And then to imagine they could be happy somehow, to see that illustrated in fandom or in canon and feel hopeful that we could have the same....that’s why fan art is so popular, isn’t it? Because we relate to it and seeing our favorites be happy makes us happy and gives us hope? That’s one of the biggest reasons why we tell stories in the first place.

Ah, I know I’m rambling, and I’m sleepy to the point that everything is running together in my head, so I hope you know that I’m not trying to invalidate what you’ve said, and I really think you make good points. I think what you’re saying is important to hear, and though I disagree, you should be saying it if it’s what you believe and it’s important to you.

I...I’m sorry, I hope I’ve responded well, and that I’m not just....going on about things that are unrelated. Again, though, thank you for sending this!!! I appreciate it, and all the time you’ve spent thinking about it, I really do. It means a lot to be able to have open conversations like this.