#robin is mine now the duffers have lost custody

[the-lark-ascending69]

I wish I were as optimistic as you 😭 personally, I don't think byler will be canon or that Will is ever going to confess his feelings (again, the queer characters don't get to come between the straight main couple). I do hope his pain is given some meaning, by which I mean... I hope it's one of those experiences that help a person grow, y'know? Idk how exactly, but maybe it's one of those things he has to face in over to heal? I don't need them to get together, I just wish all of these characters became characters again.

As for ronance, what drives me up the walls is one very very specific scene, which was Robin getting on her knees for Nancy. I don't even consider it the most "romantic" scene (that one would be the hand-holding 🥰), but I feel like it's the only scene in which there was a shred of intentionality, or rather, unintentional intentionality? As in, I don't think they would have made Robin do that if she were straight. It's this gentlemanly act that just screams "lesbian", like... of course a lesbian would chivalrously get down on her knees for a girl! And obviously, lesbians being chivalrous isn't necessarily a sign of attraction, but there's the accidental implication that Robin feels the seed, the germ of attraction towards Nancy that girl lovers generally feel towards most girls, simply because Nancy is a girl.

(Though it's not like the Duffers would realize - straight people are really really good at ignoring any possible queer implications in the texts they write. You could have Robin and Nancy making out and they'd still think it was a normal way for girl friends to show affection).

Though, yeah, I'm sitting here like a delusional idiot hoping Robin gets a real character arc in S5 and gets upgraded to the front-row sphere. I feel so frustrated with what they did to her in S4, just... since when is the girl notorious for comforting crying girls in public bathrooms after Steve broke their hearts, pushing one of said girls to go back with him? Did these people even read the books they themselves commissioned for their characters? "Rebel Robin" Robin would NEVER. And "Surviving Hawkins" Robin would be a lot more concerned about being unable to fit in with other girls (i.e Nancy) than whether or not Stancy becomes canon.

It's painfully obvious she was conceived as Steve's future girlfriend and when they changed their minds, rather than focus on platonic Stobin, they tried to force Stancy 2 Electric Bogaloo down our throats, because they couldn't go for five minutes without wasting time on half-assed heterosexual romances. Imagine of all the time dedicated to Stancy in S4 went instead into having Nancy and Robin talk about Barb! Or in actually developing Robin's relationship with Vickie... literally anything would have been better.

I really liked S4 but generally it was all over the place and the only characters that really shone were Max, El and Nancy, while everyone else went from OK to miserable imo

I'm sorry but I have a very real problem with Vickie as a character. A fan-favorite character is revealed to be queer in the previous season and gets a love interest shaped appendix with no plot relevance or personality, created only to be Robin's trophy girlfriend, in a way that is so painfully and obviously different from how they did it when they tried to make a new character entirely to give her a love story with an already existing main character.

I'm talking about Robin herself, and how, despite not having the deepest character arc in S3, she still had some meat on her bones. She still had some stuff to work with. She was actually important and involved with the plot and had real chemistry with her would-be love interest, Steve. Making her a lesbian at last second pretty much saved both her and Steve's characters and made the Scoops subplot, the only redeemable subplot of S3, actually salvageable. By recontextualizing Stobin with that revelation, you go from a forced, heteronormative/amatonormative "love story" with mysoginistic undertones (because what are frmale characters if not trophy wives for male characters!) and 1) you give Robin actual stuff in her life that has nothing to do with Steve, turning her into a real character on her own, yet also shows why their friendship is so valuable to her, giving her a mini-arc in the process about overcoming isolation, alienation and loneliness, and 2) you wrap up Steve's arc the way his character clearly needs to be wrapped up - by moving on from his immature pursuits of women as romantic/sexual fulfillment and his highschool persona constructed on that, and embracing maturity by working on himself with the help of the people who challenge him the most, his platonic bonds (Dustin and Robin). Like I'm being 100% serious when I say making Robin a lesbian somewhat saved season 3.

But you can tell the brilliance of that move did NOT come from the Duffers' mastermind because they couldn't even attempt to replicate their unexpected success with Robin and Vickie. Because even before Robin was made into a lesbian, she still had SOMETHING. Vickie has nothing. She's a non-character. And it's interesting to note the difference in treatment when it comes to straight male characters vs. queer female characters. You can make the case that Max's introduction in S2 followed a similar pattern to beta!Stobin - new character paired up with pre-existing character. But you wouldn't say Max was added just to give Lucas a girlfriend, because even if her plot relevance in S2 was rather lackluster, she still had... so much more than even Robin in S3, and she's simply uncomparable to Vickie. She feels like her own person right from the start. We know the Duffers like to add wayy to many characters, making the show feel crowded and inevitably leaving a few characters behind, but when they add new characters in a given season, they're actually pretty good at making us fall in love with them quickly. Max, Robin, Eddie, hell even Billy if you're into that - like I said before, there's always some work that goes into them that makes you care about them.

Sure, there are less important characters that don't get half the effort put into them - Heather, Benny, idk, Barb's parents? And many others I can't remember right now. Not every character needs to be a fan-favorite.

But none of these guys were a main character's love interest. Not even for like, a second-row main character like Robin. Lucas gets a girl and she gets proper character development. Steve was originally intended to get a girl and she gets plot relevance, screentime and charisma (and a bit of character development pre-coming out too). Robin gets a girl and... it seems like Robin and her girl don't matter that much.

Which makes me question, why give Robin a love interest at all if they weren't going to do anything about it. My guess is that, well, she's a lesbian, so of course she gets to kiss girls. Character arc? What is that? Just watch her gush over a girl without last name and not care about anything else for most of the season. The writers just didn't know what to do with her now that she's no longer gonna be Steve's trophy girlfriend. Just throw in a poorly put together gay subplot, because everyone knows gay people only get to kiss other gay people and there's nothing else about the lesbian experience worth talking about (like, idk, the loneliness? The alienation?). I'm of the belief that, if you're gonna half-ass it, don't write a romantic subplot at all, regardless of the characters' genders and sexuality. But what bothers me isn't a shitty romantic subplot. It's the difference in treatment that the queer characters get vs. their straight counterparts.

And it bothers me because it could have been fixed SO easily! You get three options:

Give Robin a character arc that's not a romantic subplot. That doesn't mean she doesn't get to have a crush, but it should be in the background. My idea would be to make it about her, Nancy and Barb, and their old friendship + Robin's sense of alienation. Robin learning the truth about Barb's death, and her and Nancy helping each other heal. Robin and Nancy becoming friends through long conversations about their feelings, through which Nancy gets a sort of "second chance" at having a friend again and Robin gets to connect with someone who initially hated her in her own special way. The point is to not make r0vickie obviously endgame, EVEN if it turns out to be that way next season, because if it's obviously endgame it suddenly begs for a deeper development and the lack of it becomes a problem. An easy solution would be to give Robin multiple crushes, to signal at how unserious they all are at the moment.

Give Robin a love story with a newly introduced main character. And the obvious option is *rolls drums" genderbent Eddie! Or Vickie in Eddie's place. Best and easiest solution imo. It may sound weird but if you think about it, it all makes sense - plot relevance, character development... only problem would be killing your gays if you squint, though Robin would be alive and ready for a new character arc next season, as a changed person. Sad, angry, possibly seeking revenge and seeking to assert herself as a threat after hiding and running her entire life. Robin's feelings are suddenly plot relevant now. I'm picking Eddie here (or rather, his role) because he's the most important one out if all the new S4 characters, and the one that spends time with the group the most. It's clean, minimalistic and practical.

Give Robin a love story with a pre-existing main character, i.e Nancy. As a ronance shipper, I maintain that pairing up Nancy and Robin would have been original and unexpected in the best way. I feel like I don't even need to explain why this would have been a good idea - tons of people already have. Mostly, I want to lament the impossibility of this option, which links directly to the point I'm trying to make.

Robin was never going to be paired with a main-main character, old or new, because queer relationships on-screen need to be pushed to the sides as to not interfere with or threaten the straight main characters. Nancy, as the main girl, was never going to get a romance with a girl. Vickie was never going to get the centrality that Eddie got. Straight relationships get to be taken seriously, even if they're writen stupidly, like whatever the fuck happened with stancy and jancy in S4. Queer relationships don't get to be more than silly forgettable subplots. Queer characters like Robin need to be inobtrusive. She could never fall in love with Nancy, even if one-sided-ly, because that would create a conflict straight audiences don't want to see.

And if a queer character DOES fall in love with a main straight character, like Will, it's all meant for pointless suffering. Not the kind of suffering that's vital for a character arc, or the kind that gives depth to a character. It's not a kind of suffering that leads them to change, to take any given decisions that they wouldn't otherwise have taken. It's not a suffering that could possibly interfere with the straight main couple's happiness. It's not a pain that causes conflict. Queer love and pain doesn't get to be part of the conflict in straight-dominated stories. So Robin can never fall in love with someone from the front-row sphere and Will suffers pointlessly, even though that pain has no real effect on him.