#rick will introduce new narratives and dynamics in this series and i'm all for that

[demigods-posts]

i am not understanding rick's thought process behind the characters consistent mockery of percy's intelligence. especially in light of knowing that the characters do value percy as a friend and demigod. he was the child of the prophecy. he jumped into the river styx to better prepare for defending olympus. he used his gods-given wish to build a better future for demigods. he plays an active role as camp counselor at chb and is a respected confidant at cj. he is evidently held in high regard in his absense. but the surrounding characters seem to treat his presence like a hinderance to their peace. it's rather disappointing to read.

[princessofghosts-posts]

I think having multipovs chapters in HoO narrative was one of the main catalyst for the quality's downgrade of Riordan writing.

Riordan isn't an horrible writer,there are ups and downs in his books and he really really needs to acknowledge that maybe it's time to step ups his writing style,let the books grow with his audience (let's address all of the trauma),and put back the quality over quantity principle (which is something that totally flew out of the fucking window in the last years). Especially if he still want to write books in the future,since we understand that he won't let his characters rest anytime soon,either with the books or with the TV serie.

His stongest serie is probably PJO,I haven't read MC or KC so I don't know how good they are,but from what I understood they are all pretty good (I also love Egyptian Mythology ever since I was a child,so I'll probably read KC after I'm done with the Nico's serie). All of them are wrote in first person,with the protagonists narrating everything that happens. I think it was KC that introduced more than one narrator,since in MC and PJO there is only one (Magnus and Percy),while KC has Sadie and Carter.

The thing is,that when it came to having only one narrator,Riordan is pretty good at what he writes. Because he needs to focus on only one character,while he can expand and development the others. It's a bit difficult when there are a lot of side characters,but the main focus is always the main protagonist (Percy) and every other characters they interact with most of the time (Annabeth,Grover,Thalia,Nico,ecc...).

You also need to remember that the characters get shaped with their PoVs. We don't know them,and this isn't a movie/serie that let us see what it's going on. So,it's important that in books the PoVs reflect the characters. Take Percy for example,he is humble,sarcastic and very down to heart,othen than having a low self-esteem and being an unreliable narrator. His PoVs is extremely different from a Piper that just entered this world and don't have the same experience,is still founding her ground and trying to accept her nature.

And it's ok because it help to shape not only the main character,but also the others. But it also need to be different for each character,otherwise is like writing the same one all over again with only different struggles. All of them have low self-esteem and don't believe in themselves enough for a reason or another,so it's a bit difficult to organize them and make sure that they are unique one from the other.

Anyway. Rick also didn't had a problem with 2 narrators,since I read a couple of positive review on KC. But I'll see for myself when I'll read it. (These days I'm going to start ToA,but since I have a lot to do for school and my final exam I don't think I'll be able to read all of it). He also didn't had a problem with 3 narrators since TLH was pretty ok,especially with balancing for the first time 3 PoVs of 3 new different characters and dynamics; and SoN is probably one of his strongest book from a writing prospective,and one of the backbone of HoO. I also think that 3 narrators are good enough for a book,because otherwise it can get really messy. And I say this as a fanfic writer that has a fanfic with more than 7 narrators in a multichapter povs. It's hell to write all of them down and I need to establish an order where I write 3-4 for each chapter (there are 7 main characters,yes-),and then add the eventual others PoVs from the side characters. I'm extremely regretting my choice,but I unfortunately can't change it since I'm already writing it. Fortunately is in third person,otherwise I was going to cry. Never again in my life. Thanks to this I can kinda understand a bit of Riordan's problems for HoO,because it's a stuggle trying to fit a lot of PoVs in a books.

I firmly believe he should have stopped at 3 (maybe a fourth if he can) and rotated them for all the other books. Because the real problem started with MoA,where we got 5 narrators,and the quality started to go down the drain,both for the story and for the characters themselves. Some of them (read: Jason because Riordan could care less about him,and Piper because he never tried to do something with her) are really underdeveloped,others turned out straight up toxic (looking at you Annabeth for even thinking that your boyfriend was stupid when you know how smart he is,and Leo for your horrible coping mechanism) and some where completely pushed in the back (Frank,Hazel and Percy himself). And having to add 2 other PoVs at the end of the serie really took from the Seven,but it was unfortunately something Riordan couldn't avoid since Reyna and Nico both entered the main character stage in HoH,and were important to their mission (their PoVs kinda saved BoO ngl-). There is also an inconsistentincy with the PoVs because there were more greeks than romans,and during HoH the order,and how many chapters they had,went down the drain too.

If he struggles to do more than 3/4 PoVs,which is completely valid,he shouldn't add more. Focus on them based on the importance they have in the current book. MoA is literally Annabeth's book,then add Jason PoVs since it's where the whole Romans Vs Greeks conflict started,put Hazel PoVs too since she was Jason's friend and doesn't know what's going on with him,and either choose between Piper (for the same reason in the book) or Percy (same reason as Jason).

HoH? Percy PoVs needs to stay. Add Frank (for the same reason in the book) and Leo so he can have a bit of development and find his place in the Seven instead of making him fly to Calypso,and then choose between Piper (give her that development) or Annabeth (she was in the same situation as Percy so hers doesn't really matter since we saw her in Percy's)

BoO? Nico PoVs needs to stay because it carried 50% of it. Put Piper (for the same reason in the book),Hazel so she can finally grow in her powers (not talking about the mist-) and then choose between Reyna (for the same reason as Annabeth in HoH,we see her all of the book in Nico's) or Jason (same reason in the book),and give the last chapter to Percy so we don't actually know if Leo is dead or not for having a better plot twist later on.

This is only my opinion of which PoVs should be better of course,you could have a different opinion. Not a problem at all. Riordan in the end of the day it's the author and this was what he wanted,completely fair too,but I think it would have been better if he balanced 3 or 4,instead of going for 5 or more.

Probably would have been better if the whole HoO had more than 5 books,maybe one for each main character and then have a final one where they rotated PoVs for each chapters (not 3 each) and add Nico's or Reyna's. The last one would be a little more than the usual 300+ pages (probably closer or a bit more than 500),and should be splitted between the Seven in Athens and Nico and Reyna at CHB,the conflict between the camps and the final clash with Gaia should be more than 10 pages.

It should probably go like TLO: put a couple of chapaters as introduction of the final plans for the war,then have the Seven battling the Giants in Athens while Nico and Reyna take care of the conflict between the camps, rotate PoVs between them (so we feel the hype and anxiety) for the rest of the book,and spend like 50-60 pages only about the final shout down with Gaia before going on with the aftermath. This way it doesn't feel rushed like BoO felt and,again,the last chapter should be Percy's,or if not him then Jason since it's like we end his story.

It already sound better like this,and all of the characters should already have all of their development,so that the last book can be centred only on the final conflicts,instead of traveling for more than 300 pages and doing everything in the last 80. That's not how you do a war arc,and TLO is a good example of Riordan's writing of it. He can put a lot of quality in his works (manifesting this for his recent books) but he needs to lock in already knowing what he needs to focus on,and what he need to do for having that type of climax. If he did it in PJO he could have done it in HoO too,specially because we had HoH,a literally masterpiece,before the last book in the same serie. It's not like he lost his sparks after PJO since there are some good books in HoO too.

Of course there are a lot of other issues too,the characters themselves are a mess and some of them stay a mess without having time to grow (*cough cough* Piper,Jason,Reyna,Leo *cough cough*),but that's mainly Riordan's fault since he doesn't know what to do with most of them. And then in ToA he literally throw them under the bus,some more than others (read: Jason,Piper with whatever he thought he was doing right and Reyna being in the Hunt after she fought so hard for CJ). But I think the various PoVs from different characters,most of which new,really did a number on his writing.

[my-mt-heart]

Theories regarding Caryl in 11C is the last part of the ask, I think...? (If I've left any questions out, remind me and I'll circle back. I don't know if I've covered all your questions, MT, but I'm going to assume you'll ask if there's something else. :P)

I've mentioned this to MT already, but I think, with the time jump, we could be looking at bookends to a relationship. During production, it's not uncommon to have to roll with unexpected events and with all the backstage drama regarding the spinoff, this would be something that Angela Kang could push through and still give viewers something. Personally, I wouldn't go for that option because I think ending their personal relationship is a sadder sendoff than keeping things nebulous, but I also don't know what she's looking at in terms of logistics.

When AK introduced Carol's ring, it felt like she's going to backdate a more formal commitment between Caryl and in the context of the obstacles she's had to face in trying to run this season, it would make sense to play it that way. No, the viewer wouldn't get the start of their romantic involvement on screen, but there also wouldn't be Gimple telling her that Daryl is a man's man and TWD isn't a romance. Studio interference is annoying and if you have to start MacGyver-ing your narrative around someone's incompetence, it's frustrating on a whole other level.

Another way things could go, if AK married Caryl off, is that she could treat this separation like Daryl is going on a business trip. The spinoff sounds like a limited series: Daryl goes off to retrieve Rick and AMC's plan is most likely to give Rick a new show. (Thus the urgency in shooting this summer.) There's no way with the change in concept that Andy Lincoln's presence in GA was unrelated to the upcoming spinoff. Our heroes know Rick's alive, but Carol probably has more important things to do on the home front than rescuing him (again) from whatever scrape he got himself into this time.

I agree with what MT said previously, that Caryl don't need a marriage to be together because they're free spirits. But, as a displaced showrunner, AK has limited possibilities to make sure that the new management can't unravel the established bond between characters. Marrying Carol and Daryl in a low-key way is something she could sneak in to give Gimple a parting gift that he can't easily do away with. Carol is too important to AMC to kill off, so Gimple can't have her killed off-screen in the spinoff to let Daryl pursue other interests in France. That would be bad optics in terms of multiple -isms and I don't think AMC would approve of Daryl as a cheater either.

Regardless, we all know Gimple is way more interested in a Rick & Negan combo than he is in Daryl, so that could be the silver lining for Caryl.

I think that was the last of the questions for now. Definitely acknowledge that these are just your theories and we should take them as such. It's still great to get an industry perspective when the rest of us are running around like headless chickens. Here are my thoughts...

Option 1: The thing is, Caryl fans have always dealt with naysayers, many of them loud and rude and ageist, so just getting confirmation that they are romantic could be validating. But I agree with you, watching the relationship end without all the beauty and happiness in between would be absolutely devastating. And also doesn't feel true to their dynamic which is supposed to be everlasting. They're each other's person. They're soulmates, life partners, ride or die, etc. If they finally get together after many years of slowly coming together, there shouldn't be a bookend. I really hope this is not the route taken if there's even a chance they get together at all, and what gives me hope is the fact that more than likely (if NR is to be believed), Daryl leaving will be mission-oriented. I don't think he's leaving by himself because he wants a fresh start (as we were led to believe all this time he was going to do with Carol). I suppose there's the possibility of higher powers trying to keep Daryl single for his spinoff for all the branding reasons you listed before, but let's cross our fingers that AK has found a way around that as you go on to mention.

Option 2: I figured there had to be some type of significance to that ring since, and maybe you can back me up here, wardrobe choices are carefully thought out. There's no way it would escape the costume department's or Angela's or Melissa's notice that putting a ring on THAT finger with no other jewelry has very specific connotations. Unless they just wanted to fuck with us, my thought was that it was symbolic of her emotional commitment to Daryl while being presented with the opportunity to get back with Ezekiel aka Daryl's foil (red stone vs blue stone). A literal offscreen marriage would be both mind-blowing and upsetting because again, we've been waiting for canon forever and we want to see it happen in real time, including all of the emotional build up. But if it's true that AK was forced to get sneaky, I would accept this very VERY begrudgingly. For the validation at least.

Option 3: The ending that perfectly honors Caryl's shared emotional journey is riding off into the sunset to explore the world and just be free and I will die on that hill. I will never get over the fact that it was almost so until "someone" said nah, forget what these characters deserve. Let's keep them in perpetual fighting mode, let's cover up our mistakes with the Rick arc, and let's add running zombies to keep our male viewership in tact. As a result of this fuckery, I'm convinced nothing will fully satisfy me or make sense. However, if I was making the best out of a shitty situation, marrying Caryl off before Daryl heads off on a search and rescue mission would be the best way to go. I'd be comforted knowing that Daryl and Carol finally took that leap with each other we've been waiting for. Plus, it is binding in the sense I wouldn't have to worry about any other potential love interest in the spinoff. My only concern (it's my concern no matter what unfortunately) is why Carol stays behind. Because as I mentioned before I don't buy her comfortably falling into a Pamela Milton or nanny role when her arc has been building up to her freeing herself from having to constantly take care of others. I don't buy her and Daryl suddenly wanting different things for their future. I buy that she would be tired of fighting, but I also think she would still want to go with Daryl. So maybe she does insist on going with, but Daryl tells her to stay because he wants her to preserve the peace they've obtained. Or maybe because he wants their next adventure together to be the one they talked about ( New Mexico). It would suck that they'd be sacrificing time together again and that Daryl would be forced back into lone hero mode, but...sigh.