#rennala is associated always with the full moon ranni's always associated with the dark moon

[cometblaster2070]

in rennala's bossfight it's a bit difficult to make out but the juveline scholars are actually singing throughout her first phase and I find the lyrics of their song to be incredibly interesting:

"Sleep tight, bound tight, by mothers amber, sleep tight, find life in mother’s umbra."

rennala refers to the juveline scholars as "sweetings" and I'm assuming that the 'mother' they're referring to in this song is rennala which is a curious detail when you notice how they mention the word umbra.

for those not aware, umbra is latin for 'shadow' and is said to be the darkest part of a shadow; the part where the light source is completely blocked and more specifically i'd like to bring up how in the song they're referencing finding life in mother's umbra; in mother's shadow.

rennala is referred to as the queen of the full moon and her incantation refers to how she "encounters" this enchanting moon.

similarly her daughter ranni is said to have encountered the dark moon.

This moon was encountered by a young Ranni, led by the hand of her mother, Rennala. What she beheld was cold, dark and veiled in occult mystery.

there isn't really a point to any of this but I still found it really interesting how ranni is associated with the dark moon and was led to the dark moon by her mother rennala, especially when you account for the detail of the juveline scholars mentioning mother's umbra or in this case mentioning rennala's shadow in a sense.

i just wonder if it's an interesting bit of storytelling that ranni discovered the dark moon, the shadow of her mother rennala's full moon, with her mother's help and it helped her escape the confines of her destiny and carve out her own path and take her life into her own hands.

finding life in mother's umbra indeed i suppose.

[katyspersonal]

Thinking about how Moon doesn't have its own light but what is known as moonlight is AKTYALY just light of Sun reflected from its surface. And it is really beautiful, like, Moon helps to still deliver the light of Sun even when it is absent (at night). It is there to help it out in the shadows and carry its burdens when it can't

But such a cool part of Soulsborne lore is that even though they instead go for more mythological approach of Moon having its own light, the "blade of the Sun" vibe is still saved! With Gwyndolin at the times of Dark Souls 1 it is actually kind of sad, but also literal! He stays in the dark place and is responsible for illuminating it with the illusion of the sunlight (and Gwynevere). To keep up the light of Sun that cannot be present here. However, he is also associated with assassins - Blades of the Darkmoon, who deliver vengeance upon those who disrespected Gods!

Elden Ring one though? More subtle but also more 'positive'! Rellana is 'Blade of Messmer', and her swords state that 'Fire and Moon have always been together' (in Japanese)! That refers to Fire Giants and Astrologers, also a sentiment found in Sword of Night and Flame that was stored in Caria Manor, too! Fell God, though, is Sun-adjacent! As if his eye looking like Sun surface with its dark surface spots and 'proper' manifestation of his fire being a literal blazing orb was not enough, in SOTE turned out he has been portrayed as a heraldic Sun hhfdfhds Perhaps, a kind of Sun that leaves burns, causes magnetic disturbance and dries plants, but Sun nonetheless! So, Moon is... its blade, since Messmer carries it. It feels like 'shorn of light' went over Rellana's head and she definitely more focuses on 'fire' side of him, but the sentiment is here. x) She has the spirit ok? Eclipse was also supposed to happen in Mountaintops specifically.. exceptional event of Moon taking control, heh.

Moon is an enigmatic entity in Elden Ring as well, and seems to adapt to one's fate! Full Moon is a Moon completely drenched in light, and it IS kinda what happens with Rennala upon marrying Radagon! Rellana's moon is Twin Moon, much like herself who embodies two powers working as one. Ranni's Dark Moon is 'cold and veiled in occult mystery', and she ends up adopting cold sorcery that is "heretical", along with other things! However, there is also black Moon of Nox, and you know why it is black? Because they live underground, where there is no Sun!

I don't know, it is just.... here. I like it though

[landoftheway]

The Moon in Elden Ring

As I kind of expected, a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions about what the moon is in the setting of Elden Ring and how it ties into the story and lore. So to clear things up, I’ve made a comprehensive list of every single item, spell, and line of dialogue that talks about the moon itself (note that I specifically mean descriptors of the moon and its properties, not just the presence of the word “moon” or “lunar” somewhere in the item’s name or description). Naturally this will involve a lot of spoilers for the game, so I’ll put the whole thing below the cut and I’ll add my conclusions on it at the bottom. Let me know if there’s anything I missed and I’ll edit this post as needed.

Item Descriptions

Dark Moon Greatsword: “Ranni's sigil is a full moon, cold and leaden, and this sword is but a beam of its light.”

Moon of Nokstella: “This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars.”

Remembrance of the Full Moon Queen: “In her youth, Rennala was prominent champion who charmed the academy with her lunar magic, becoming its master.”

Stargazer Heirloom: “The young astrologer gazed at the night sky as she walked. She had always chased the stars every step of her journey. Then she met the full moon — and, in time, the astrologer became a queen.”

Drawstring Freezing Grease: “The women of the Carian royal family look to the moon to guide their fates. Rani's is a moon dark and blanketed with rime.”

Spell Descriptions

Ranni’s Dark Moon: “The moon was encountered by a young Ranni, led by the hand of her mother, Rennala. What she beheld was cold, dark and veiled in occult mystery.”

Rennala’s Full Moon: “Queen Rennala encountered this enchanting moon when she was young, and later, it would bewitch the academy.”

Adula’s Moonblade: “Adula, a devourer of sorcerers, was bested by Ranni and subsequently swore a knightly oath to her Dark Moon.”

Freezing Mist / Glinstone Icerag / Frozen Armament: “The snowy crone taught the young Ranni to fear the dark moon as she imparted her cold sorcery.”

Carian Retaliation: “This was the Carian royal family's secret means to prepare against the disloyalty of the academy. The moon and stars would one day go their separate ways.”

Carian Greatsword: “Armed with this spell, sorcerers gain the strength of knights, their loyalty sworn to the moon.”

Dialogue

Note: All of the relevant dialogue mentioning the moon comes from Ranni, and as others have pointed out some of her dialogue appears to have been poorly translated from the original Japanese. While I personally think the intended meaning can still be inferred from the English text, here is a link to a direct translation to see what I’m talking about and where I’m getting my interpretation from.

Ranni, at the top of Ranni’s Rise after completing her quest: “I thought I might expound a little further... Upon the order I envision. Mine will be an order not of gold, but the stars and moon of the chill night. I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet. As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but would have them at great remove. And have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch... All become impossibilities. Which is why I would abandon this soil, with mine order.”

Ranni, during the Age of Stars Ending: “To every living being, and every living soul. Now cometh the age of the stars. A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the Moon. Here beginneth the chill night that encompasses all, reaching the great beyond. Into fear, doubt, and loneliness... As the path stretcheth into darkness.”

Conclusions

So, as with a lot of things in Elden Ring there’s a lot to put together here, but there are a few things that are immediately obvious:

The moon is associated with the Carian royalty, contrasting how the stars are associated with the Academy of Raya Lucaria. This tracks with how study of the primeval current was effectively banned by the royal family and why Sellen wants to bring it back by ousting Rennala as the academy’s leader, and it also tracks with how the royal family apparently predicted they’d eventually have to deal with the academy rebelling based on the Carian Retaliation spell.

We can get a pretty clear picture of how Rennala and later Ranni became interested in the moon. Rennala was an astrologer in her youth, became particularly fascinated by the moon, developed moon-based sorceries based on that fascination, and later used those sorceries to become the head of the academy.

Ranni’s associated “dark moon” is distinct from Rennala’s “full moon”. While we don’t have a lot of insight into what Rennala saw in the moon that fascinated her so much, we know Ranni focused on the moon as “cold, dark, and veiled in occult mystery”.

Related to the prior point, it seems all women of the Carian royal family use the moon as a sort of divination for their personal fates, with Ranni deriving her fate from the moon she perceived as “dark and blanketed in rime” (I actually had to google what rime means, apparently it’s an old word for frost).

Nokstella the Eternal City apparently had a moon of its own, a “black moon” that was “the guide of countless stars”. There’s really no more info on this particular moon I can find, but I’ll add my personal interpretations on it below.

So that’s the stuff that seems pretty direct, but that still leaves a lot of room for interpretation when it comes to stuff like the Age of Stars Ending. That said, I think we can piece together some stuff based on the above, though I fully admit that the following is just my interpretation of the prior evidence:

If the moon is used as divination for all women of the Carian royal family, which obviously predates Rennala given the existence of an entire royal family and associated soldiers/spells/legacy/etc., we can reasonably assume based on what we see with Ranni and Rennala that the women of the royal family are shown the moon as children and what they see in it helps determine the path they’ll take in life.

Ranni’s interpretation of the moon certainly matches linguistically with her stated objective of pursuing “the dark path only [she] may tread”. We can get a relatively good understanding of what that path entails from her ending dialogue: namely, the establishment of a new order for the world that both does away with the old entirely and is itself distant from the world in such a way that the people of said world cannot directly observe or interact with it like they could the Golden Order.

Related to the previous point, given that Ranni’s intent effectively means plunging herself into a path of “fear, doubt, and loneliness” due to removing herself and her order from the world (albeit mitigated thanks to the player Tarnished accompanying her), I think it makes sense why her mentor the snow witch warned her to “fear the dark moon”: because the future that dark moon represented was one that would weigh heavily on Ranni.

The paths and intents of both Ranni and Rennala are distinct from those of the Academy, and more broadly the association of the moon with the former is distinct from the association of the stars with the latter. By this, I think we can safely assume that Ranni’s “dark path” is not the same as a path towards something like the primeval current or other star-related subjects, though there is definitely still a connection since Ranni herself describes her order as being of “the stars and the moon”. This would make sense given that both are rooted in the cosmos, even if they remain distinct subjects.

There remains the question of where Nokstella’s lost moon fits into all of this, but I think the description of the Nox Monk set can clear this up decently: “Long ago, the Nox invoked the ire of the Greater Will, and were banished deep underground. Now they live under a false night sky, in eternal anticipation of their liege. Of the coming age of the stars. And their Lord of Night.” We also know from the description of the Remembrance of the Naturalborn that the titular Astel “once destroyed an Eternal City and took away their sky”. Putting this together, it seems the most likely explanation is that Nokstella’s black moon was a part of the false sky they created underground that was later lost when Astel crashed into the city and almost completely destroyed it.

Now, there’s one more thing that I believe can be taken from all of this, but it has more to do with what hasn’t been said in any of the above descriptions or dialogue than anything that actually was said, and as a result this is probably the most speculative part of my conclusion. That said, I feel pretty confident that this is true unless someone can point me to something I missed or unless we get new information from future DLC: the moon is not an Outer God, or any god for that matter. Elden Ring does not shy away from calling things gods, be it the Greater Will, Marika, the Formless Mother, or the unnamed gods of the Rot, Fire Giants, and the Deathbirds (see the descriptions for the Blue Dancer Charm, all fire giant incantations, and the Twinbird Kite Shield), and yet at no point does anyone or anything refer to the moon as a god, or even an actual being with agency. The most we get is the moon as a source of inspiration for certain characters, which based on the language being used seems far more metaphorical than literal, as in the inspiration is them drawing conclusions and interpretations based on their observations rather than an entity bestowing power upon them.

So yeah, that’s my takeaway of the moon in Elden Ring. Like I said at the start, let me know if I’ve missed anything major and I’ll edit this post as needed.

EDIT

@xehanightmare​ pointed out I had forgotten to cover the following piece of information:

First of all, please excuse the poor image quality, but I couldn’t find a better one of both of the moons. Anyway, it is indeed possible to view two moons from the Moonlight Altar plateau, with the one on the left in this image being closest to how it normally looks and the one on the right resembling the moon as it appears in both the image for the Ranni’s Dark Moon spell and in the Age of Stars Ending. While there’s no direct piece of evidence that explicitly states what the cause of this is, the context of where and when you’re seeing this makes it seem pretty straightforward to me: the normal looking moon is the moon itself as it would normally be visible, while the dark moon is representative of Ranni’s presence at the Altar, her restored power now that the stars are moving again following Radahn’s death, and her being on the cusp of enacting her new age. Given that there’s no evidence I’m aware of to suggest the literal presence of two moons, I think this is the most plausible explanation, especially considering all the context clues.