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unproduciblesmackdown · 3 months

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still rotating lsoh in that way of like well it's fun it works well enough where like you know at every turn whatever's happening is supported by Some element coming through as the strength of such material & like the basis of like, you can forget [jrr tolkien voice] the Applicability of the plant when the foundation underneath that is "plant that eats people. would that be fucked up or what" like does it have to be human (i guess) does it have to be mine (i guess not) the answer is if a plant ate people would that be fucked up or what?

the great nexus provided where it's like of course the one "correct" interpretation of The Story here doesn't exist & neither does "here's the way to Present an experience that will be perfect & perfectly interpreted by everyone ever" but it's also Rich Text time enough to have a great time analyzing the workings & results & musing on re- or deconstructions forever. as a "never seen a stage version, only seen the theatrical release movie" i'm like yeah i would blow this whole building up Myself if they die noooo :( no you can't do that and i think it's great that like the full situation is us all having such Multiple versions and that when it's a movie everyone is like well you can't do that. the theory about the difference in medium between stage production & movie for an audience experience, i definitely buy that as a factor. i'm not gonna resolve this in this text post lmao like i'm going "i mean the theatrical ending Also Works, which feels conclusive in its own right, & the issue to me seems like, you know, they're simultaneously standing in for Any/Everyone but just like Any/Everyone they're actually specific people still. if they're not sympathetic then it could be seen as diminishing [don't feed the plants] to [don't do whatever makes them less sympathetic] like rip to your employee but i'm different, i would have done the perfect blood bank heist every other day & done the perfect marketing & then done the perfect plant killing move after doing the perfect planning to know i'd definitely been set for life & making the perfect decision to not let it go on another day & how about another etc"....that no matter how sympathetic you are (and you are, i'd blow this whole building up) don't feed the plants then huh

but. it's a story. we can have different versions and that that's the case even within the [same book] Stage situation, within that no two performances of the same production are The Same, that people sitting in different seats at the same show will have different experiences, notice / focus on different details, have different interpretations because they're different people....i can assume if i'd seen a stage version first i'd go "oh interesting" at the happier ending in the film rather than be like no Noooo the other way around lmfao. again that like, you still get the message. uh oh audrey could've died. uh oh seymour could('ve) die(d) & this plant is malicious & never gonna stop & very hard to kill, we can extrapolate. uh oh is the danger present for anyone? for you? we get it either way so i can't reluctantly give it up lmao. like i get "uh oh the plant even ate them, and You" actually acted out sure can be seen as having more emphasis & clarity. But like also never any absolutes like oh if they live it diminishes that, Maybe in some interpretations, maybe as a matter of preference....but, again, the Tradeoffs coming through. we lose like that emphasis for the rewards of Character. no Metaphor of the plants is ever really gonna shake out, but the tradeoff is always "would that be fucked up or what" and scifi fun.

like, pacing, also just like as ever can't even really declare One Thing for all, for ever, that makes a work a Tragedy, much less the Definitively Successful one or anything. is it tragedy because of tone. because people died. because anything bad enough happened that wasn't undone. because it was "serious" in tone And being "about" something someone deems worth expression / exploration. but always shakespeare problem plays and where does greek tragedy come from & what did it mean & that obviously comedy isn't like there's no consequences, no "substance" or "seriousness" or whatever other supposed metric of Worth by whomever gets to judge that. comedy requiring a level of questioning / analyzing Everything (technically it doesn't, if you do like "comedy is when Some people / things are laughable" which idc about that. Encompassing context / framework or else) and in that there's more room for things that otherwise might be presented as that matter of "tone" defining whether something is "serious." like there's Nothing Unrealistic about from the start it just being matter of fact everyday stuff that audrey's getting beat up but that doesn't make it not "serious" unless the world ground to a halt & everyone else around her fell to their knees. the most serious shit including indeed interpersonal abuse goes on all the time as everyday matter of fact stuff just like that, world still turning, nobody falling to their knees or else it's not that big a deal. again like suppertime sequence is just really ominous lmao like yeah it Would be fucked up if a giant sentient plant ate a person. the horrors of being matter in flux are endless but like "isn't this fucked up" gore or whatever is really never the kind of Vision Of Violence that comes across as half as unpleasantly disturbing as the shit that happens quickly and without much detailed fanfare in my experience/opinion, & this is a bit like that. just spending some time in suspense knowing this plant is gonna eat a guy and then it does, yikes. likewise saying it's memorable like he sure does look like plant food to me, just a what like whole ten second sequence of silhouetted abuse that is perfectly harrowing because we experience audrey's harrowment.

going on a tangent But Not Really and i welcome it, whaddaya gonna do. it's still also more about "these are characters in a story and not Real People but art imitating life style we think of them in the framework as though they're real people. they could be anyone and so could real people, but also, just as with real people, they are specific people" but that like also We're The Audience. we don't have to imagine any particular character or their experiences / pov as "what if this one was me / vice versa" but we also never have to Be these characters b/c we not only Aren't, but they exist to us only As Presented, unlike real people, who exist outside our observation, awareness, assessment. like, real violence happening that isn't only made real by someone outside it standing there Observing, much less necessarily realizing what's going on, nor following it around as it affects someone day to day. the issue of like ""showing"" us in media that someone's been abused. if we see it In Process, it's Not That Bad unless it's supposedly "that bad" all at once, in say like, simply a scene, perhaps merely several, perhaps one episode or movie, etc: and in thusly being "convincing" to an Audience, the reaction can be like "well, obviously it's That Bad. so why would this person put up with it" and the idea that it's the victim's responsibility actually can be accepted, like, since it's so clearly Intolerable, beyond the pale, must be something wrong with Them for tolerating it, if only they'd get it together enough to stand up for themself once & for all. never mind that, yknow, who cares about that, would they deserve this anyways & gosh why is it never about focusing on the people treating them this way. anyways like its leading to "well, couldn't be me" washing your hands of it as you wanted to do anyways. handy if you're presented with Whatever like "oh it's not even that bad anyways" too of course. all versus like, forget what seems "intolerable" like how about "can you escape it. what do you risk happening to you if you try." like people's reactions to Real images of like, someone taking a casual everyday pic of a living situation & it's got a lack of polish that's just like, ordinary Being Poor type of deal. mentioning any detail that's pretty ordinarily a part of that, no matter how they feel about it, and then the way people can have a big reaction like it's perhaps absurd to them in a way inspiring shock, perplexment, rejection/disdain. vs like supposed "oh no, being poor" living situations In Media like, it's either presented as Shocking, the realm of the [omg couldn't be me] consummate Other, or hey, just Not That Bad (i.e. not particularly realistic, just like....maybe shown as less spacious & Interior Designed into relatively sparse detail) like nice just something to vicariously go "how Great (perhaps Of Me, in surely innately being this person who Could Never. i'd never put up with that) that that's so Not Me" like okay, dead end. what if it's not some inviolately Other lower class of inferior Not As Much Of A Person As You people who don't know better or have better taste or better self respect or better moxie or etcccc. then it would ask you not to dehumanize and also it wouldn't end in the realm of Individual Choice as the ultimate / only truly relevant context for "when abuse happens is that fucked up or what"

anyways we can bring it all back to lsoh specifically like it's great they're not like "hope to god nobody's Relating to like, orin, say" like it's not presenting us like well even before you start feeding plants, just don't be jerks, for one. hard to go "rip to your granpa but i'm different" about the applicability focus if we don't go "it'd never apply to Me or otherwise just like, generally" b/c they're up to unsympathetic business. which, also, sidebar, of course i'm not even going "wow, the lesson is Never Murder." like yeah let's kill orin even without the plant, oh well whatever at mr. mushnik lmfao. that also like a whole big thing i think is that lsoh has this clarity about everyone's Broader Situations existing in a context where their individual choices aren't enough to save them from Tragedy, or let them Escape whatever's already shit. like, uh oh, you're already fucked. you don't have family? family's not reliable social support, perhaps including not Not being detrimental / extractive / violent in its own right? well, guess you're fucked. seymour's stuck with this Parent and we see the [your child is your property] there, oh well for him i guess. audrey as A Woman is like well your escape is into being [your wife is your property] and what if he's terrible, oh well, just leave, and do what, and risking what violence to prevent that escape? rewarded with what when you don't have money? both of them having jobs that obviously aren't enough, we aren't presented like "if only they'd been Hardworking enough, or perhaps Savvy enough to be Smartworking" like that'd have Saved them. we Do get like, oh hey, We could be a social unit (i.e., married) lol and it's like well that's a) an option if you want to at all & the genders are deemed proper & b) like well alright lmfao seymour's your friend, great, like that again it doesn't even matter much if it occurred to them like lavender marriage, it's all for the Economic considerations. nor does this really upend the broader context like yeah whew their options are still Limited thusly. this relates right into like yeah get our rod serling Or Is It? ending with Move Into A House type happier ending, but it's also like, of Course there's still limits to what they could do then or at any point, and we'd kind of have to "break out" to have it be anything But some version of like, "yeah nice now we can afford to not live on the street, definitely." which we can do, feasibly lol, just in a way that i think would be less readily conveyed as "okay they'll be fine enough now, we prommy, probably, or will they???" so [yep, that's a Conclusion] for the purposes of a film

when like it goes back to the Inciting Incident, like, well, what are seymour or audrey gonna do out here otherwise? they're in this context where we understand their only escape is [have money] and they're doing that how they can, with jobs, and a guy who'll let them live inside shelter. from this point like i guess they can become revolutionaries but there wouldn't be a "if there was a big plant that talks and eats people would that be fucked up or what" plotline. they can't even go "hey, what if We got married! we could both live somewhere with a roof & walls & not be awful to each other" without more money, probably, and probably without still killing orin (i think this is a great what if lmao. no plant, yes murder). and like then there's consumerism like you have to be told that everything wrong with your life and everything that can possibly be right can be resolved through purchase, audrey ii is advertising for a business, and i mean, stays that [increasing demand, increasing sales] until it's like uhh. quick foray into "actually now there's this [As A Famous Person] interlude where the celebrity is themself not a person but a Product, and in this case likewise now kind of framed as potential advertising for Other products as audrey ii remains for the flower shop until the Cuttings As Product twist" and like even at that point it's like, metaphorically [wow audrey ii is a product] doesn't exactly hold up, [audrey ii is consumerism] is Right There like literal consumption for one lmao and i hardly think like "oh it's not a perfect fit? throw it out" applies here when No metaphor is that, and again like, we do have literal consumerism, audrey framing her ideal life as available for sale to her via magazines, clear [hm, socioeconomics] framing like hm they sure Do just need money or they're fucked, this plant keeps trying to fuck them, illustration of a shift of contextual power from sexual solicitation to aggression (but it was aggressive the whole time also just as it was also the whole time a threateningly giant sentient plant demanding human flesh)

anyways also consumerism like [increasing consumption of goods is always desirable] relevant like ah Infinite Growth you say? that you can go "it's like 'why would vampires want more vampires when that's a dead end lol of someone who stops producing blood' / 'vampires would just run out of humans'" but when it's also like, well haha, irl Application style, wow why would people adopt a practice of "uh oh lol, This isn't sustainable and there'll always be some crash. well not my problem" like yeah audrey ii & clones taking over the world Infinite Growth would hit a wall lmao but doesn't mean uh oh it's not Now breaking through the wall eating Me, in the audience....and you can see the application to like, any Relationship between anyone & anything that apparently requires Infinite Growth, only ever More, only ever a one way process of Extraction for unilateral benefit. and also it's always like, major overlap with the Consumerism but still also a bit different: audrey ii like Commodification. it's just a strange & interesting little venus flytrap, until it's indirectly commodified at least as Business Advertisement, making the other plants into successful commodities. (also shoutout to that one guy. i can see the theory now like he was a plant of the plants to make sure audrey ii would be valuable and nourished. wouldn't change anything at all like, sure, or no, it's Style and Humor, he's a stock Some Guy & it's comedy, nobody's """normal""", unquestioned unexamined "normality" doesn't exist here thank fuck.) but you know, it's like, oh you like botany? well you'd better figure out a way to get rich from that, right. oh you're a Woman, you'd better figure out how to Be the commodity to an extra degree beyond the wage laborer, All domestic work has to be done for free or as close to it as possible, vs paid a bit more for a "job" proper, with the precarities still increasing / decreasing according to different systems of creating classes.

(such as like, see "what about the vampires as like origins in what vulnerable Othered parties are seen as infiltrators that corrupt / kill?" and that class necessarily exists in the socioeconomic context of lsoh, we don't get suburbs without Selling them like "ugh you know the poorer not white and even black people in cities? what if you could access the cities without having to live amongst them, share any resources, as though Equals" and you can try some like libertarian white supremacist analysis like don't feed the plants? white man's burden and eugenics and it's white people struggling for Control that will keep black people out and not killing you and etc. naturally any metaphor falls apart, in what we see there's no particular separation of seymour &/or audrey as inherently other from those poorer than them (although like having poorer people's existence as a "this could be you" ""threat"" requires emphasizing the perspective that, for now, you are Not them) and they're not posited as threatened by proximity / mutual access / equivalency to nonwhite / black people around them, we can infer that Racism Time as an interpretation is not Intended lol but analysis never has to end with inferred or expressed intent, and little concepts like Classes of race, gender, owner vs property, etc aren't Neutral where they're relevant, such as in not just a story set in any twentieth century US city, but Any story say, produced From a perspective that invokes that as Known, any story experienced where we as audience Know of these contexts. all the "normality" of every ideology alleging someone in a group you are impermeably separated from has to stay Other in their systemic subjugation or else everything you have (your elevated status in this very context) will be destroyed, everyone being taught said ideologies, it's not simply "normal" unless & until someone does intentionally explicitly invoke "it's racism time" & racism all over the place, ah, a simple Fiction, unless someone is a woman without explaining why, perhaps openly queer, disabled, nonchristian, nonwhite? why'd you have to make it political. we can just Say like, i suppose this extraterrestrial plant is doing some colonialism. easy. indeed it is some Other, here for infinite growth, eating people like would that be fucked up or what, voiced by a black man, watch this maneuver: even disabled in the context of being effectively a person once introduced as such. everything we can consider when presented with an invading incontrovertible malicious Other, which is Much. rich texts, hooray

but back to the commodification point. you love botany, how can you monetize it? so that it can save you, by way of money, b/c how else can you be saved? also makes me think of [audrey ii as some form of what would be considered Art]. that for art to bring the theoretical Individual Creator Artist Responsible power in the form of money &/or status, for it to be thusly vauable art, the artist has to draw (as in, extract) from their life, from Themself, put themself into it, literally in this case. then potentially have to turn to what access they have to Other people as sources of what made that Successful. but uh oh how do you keep that going forever, when you only have access to so much, when the success / exposure / demand changes everything that made it possible to quietly feed some blood to a weird little plant in a basement in the first place, much less has the Life Of Its Own and is too big for one person / escapes containment in that way. not to say in the least like ah indeed i believe in True Art(tm) and the status of true Artist(tm) or some extrapolation like wow uhh you start with a Woman as your Muse & have a cute little plant & give it a Little blood of course, that's fine, just stop there i guess or you might end up with Mass Media and that's awful....our culture and your kitcsh, our technique and your crafts, our "the 'ideal' (true) artist not worrying about making money off of it" vs "the uncouth impoverished that Does make 'art' for money (or entertainment, the Masses, any other randos, vs the true arbiters & appreciators as selected audience) and if they come up with anything good it was on accident really and we'll just be taking that thank you. ironically. for now" like i also don't think the metaphor goes oh so far here But. the idea that "good" art that'll be valued & bring money, status, Save You, has to have like your blood put into it, You and Your life, or start looking to other people around you whose lives overlap with yours also....could read further into it from that lens, but again really just like Commodification more generally, seymour's personal passion for botany that is thus far outside the flower shop but now he can finally make it be Useful in that it'll bring in money, gotta point to That same as audrey dreaming of products she can Own as concomitant with her ideal life as [pointing to Consumerism]. infinite growth, what if the pyramid scheme never stops, [the ride never ends I Want To Get Off Eternal Damnation post] etc etc

uh well anyways bring it WAY back around, i'm not agreeing to "tragedy is when you go Oh No" like well sometimes it's tragedy and i Don't lmao. sometimes i go Oh No and it's not tragedy. and of course there's no consensus like ah decisively both defined & bounded Genre, format, even medium. i can't relinquish like "b/c i'd go Oh No even harder if they died, i'm [dying ending only] now" lmao ofc i know no one demands picking one or certainly i wouldn't respect such demands nor comply. it's the power of "this is a story and it can be told different ways" like, we can Get the same points even when they don't. it's not like "oh, consumerism can go on forever just fine then" when a) we get a rod serling Or Can It? too anyways and b) we also know and always know these are, in theory, and Would Be in practice if we understand the context of [as if this was Real Life], specific people, not Everybody, now & forever. audrey ii is the pyramid scheme infinite growth inherently unilateral extraction violence consuming capitalism? like well we all feed the plants at all. we can't draw a line Anywhere, such as: when is the financial success too much? the Process of putting the personal into a product form too personally costly for you or anyone? back to like "no you can't control this, yes this will always corrupt & consume no matter who you are or your intentions and sympatheticness or whatever" like then the Metaphor / Applicability being universal, like, even You, aaah it's getting You in the audienceeee is like yep i get that Strength of that [everyone dies. You die] ending lmao. but the strength of They're Specific People [handshake] they live, you live, but still watch out, still, it's not over ending. like you know that other person in reality? that's you, extremely important, however it's also not you, just as extremely important. this tale of these specific people, like, their escape from situations including [interpersonal abuse, we don't need to See one big show of supposedly intolerable, outward suffering; whose life is constrained, who has the power, who can't escape], well they're fucked if they don't have money, so there's only so much [you Failed the cautionary tale so bad you gotta die] like, if they don't, if they only have So Much success and then wanna back out, and then realize like ohh right it's not gonna stop on its own & will also Worsen....like okay lol. how much Difference in "uh oh audrey could've been mortally wounded i guess, good thing she wasn't. Not Today" or "seymour's gotta try to kill it, so he does try. and he succeed. Today, In Fact" like yknow he could try to kill it from the inside and get eaten and we're like aaaa and Then the plant explodes b/c well, he did it, was willing to risk it after realizing the situation, same as we get in the happier theatrical ending. ("theatrical" having some ambiguity...musical theatre....i mean the film though lol)

like that it Can't be conclusive re: some theoretical perfect combination of intention, execution, interpretation. it Is this story. they Are [anyone] they Are [my specific friend seymour. i'll kill for him too] like it's more emphatic a Concept to have whatever worst case scenario, most permanent loss, vs that like, prefer the Practical instead: how much could they do? how much can you do? when it is also constrained by: they have to do the things that facilitate there being a giant talking alien plant that eats people and would that be fucked up or what? when like rather if there was no plant, i think a heist with these two zany besties where the heist is murdering orin and perhaps like ah sorry you do also know too much mr. mushnik is like, well you know that story could happen with these two characters and their personalities and be so much fun. audrey would walk in on that ax murder and start helping. the Medium Difference idk like yeah i'll help them kill whoever, i'll kill that plant, that it's also fiction and magic so of course we can't go "alas....isn't that always the way, it Has to be" like no he could blow it up. no he could kill it from the inside anyways. The Power Of Fiction, always gonna be living that "they both live or i blow the building up" life lol. while simultaneously like i even theoretically get it like no yeah of course they die, is someone else's primary Story ending. while this doesn't change my like No you can't kill them. when because it is a story and not something that actually happened and we're just able to be thinking about Meaning and Effects from something that only exists as a way of communicating an idea of Meaning and Effects like of course it's a multiple choice multiple answers deal, and having multiple versions spices that up

which also. that again like when it is not real life. difficult to pick something of more Impact / Significance than mortality, & Dying as [difficult to think of a more significant Mortality Moment], but like, again in juxtaposing art vs real life like Real death not happening Only to have "meaning" besides that uh oh everyone's mortal and someone just died, in fact. while we don't read meaning into things Only if someone dies for real, even when of course that tends to be interpreted as having import. art imitating life like, of course "don't do this. they did it and died" having impact that perhaps "don't do this. they survived though" doesn't, is gonna be an Interpretation. but there's of course never gonna be actual rules. like oh Always kill them in a cautionary tale. someone like "Wrong never have an actual other being in the cave horror. the cave is one's self, the scariest journey of all" like well i disagree. here we are where to get Us eaten by the plant we have the protagonists eaten by the plant, vs that they'd better not be, while it's not about us. separation from [that is a movie] vs [on stage in front of me? yes, i'm already a part of this] yeah sure maybe i dunno. being closer up? the plant can intrude on the audience like fall from the ceiling and change joe iconis's life but like, a Movie sequence of a plant outgrowing a city and world and even also implicitly fourth wall breaking like, that's not my business. the stakes weren't really raised there in an unbroken sequence from our heroes' demises playing Directly into a finale dropped in the audience's laps that way. i don't know. and what were they gonna do, am i right? i'll kill this vine. hang on besties....like you did make them my friends. we can go "no don't kill them, because of the concepts" and we can go "no don't kill them, because of the concepts, and also they're my friends," truly, while having grasped the [because of the concepts] either way

anyways, amidst the power of [there's no Conclusivity here. yaaay conclusivity as not even the Goal in the first place] whew like how much blood have i put into this one? none. but also addendums. i forgot to musically mention that somewhere that's green opening with that "i know seymour's the greatest...but i'm dating a semi...sadist..." like holy shit lmao superlative right there. addendum that take it way back to the beginning like "so they're fucked if they Don't successfully get more money. or end capitalism" like they go lihn mode. but who says they don't? in this story? already, they Do, the endings aren't that different even as of course it Is that different saying the pretend people's pretend actions in a pretend situation killed them, or didn't. happy ending Or Is It? it's a tuesday like haha oh come here look at this, shaking my head. killing the little plant and hitting the road, the airwaves, with [knife emoji We're Coming For You invasive plant (that eats people)] goals. anything could happen. and it's not that big a deal if they Then just did make money and happen to have more choice in their lives, like, that was the context all along lmao. and, again, if we just kill some mfs ordinary style. seymour as "aw jeez" about it but ya gotta do what you gotta do. which is relevant to like, i also hardly think like oh no it's about the slippery slope of murder. not even once. just say no. & your divine retribution will be eaten by plant, otherwise. he do kinda gotta do, sure, yeah, it's not very meaningful like "i think he could've talked it out & had orin see the light" nor "if i was seymour i would've ingeniously generated flower shop business in the wisest way, free of cost. economics" or otherwise rip but i'm different i would've gotten money in a non feed the plant way, i would've gotten complete control of my life without getting more money, ha ha....take the risk like well gotta try to kill this plant, oh wait, i did, happy ending, maybe there's more out there, dealing with them forever / at any time? sure, maybe! ask musical be more chill all about it.

i had another addendum but while not irrelevant it's also like, truly a whole tangent & maybe i don't have the wherewithal for it at this juncture. so instead yknow tl;dr much to wrestle with like as art imitating life like nobody's "doomed" like the characters died because you had that happen. in reality there were also reasons people died and there was a context that is only their "doom" if drawing a line and washing our hands of it. is a doom we supposedly share as an audience but feel more separated from in thee cinema more cathartic or whatever. whereas if our besties died without us it's like i'm blowing this whole building up, you can't make me was my hands of them and understand myself as Separate, Other, Couldn't Be Me? we may ask ourselves. and idk look at our little guys yknow it's like yeah you can't do this sorry. how do we do it with stage little guys? i don't know, having experienced such neither First nor Ever. tragic deaths, you only don't actually care, or it's like, hey. no. are they So Us that they're Too doomed by dying? idk but of course the success in being upset about it either way. failure is if i don't give a shit, don't have fun & be myself along the way

#the power of fiction....#arguably a More Chill fate possible for seymour without the plant: joining that group of fellas in da-doo as he was Just About To.#just another fella myself; i am not the one who the story's about #just some tuesday like oh audrey i was just ax murdering orin here. she joins in two point five seconds later. haha look at us #seymour has that moxie i believe. he's comfortable perusing your wares but potentially turning you down to your face #shrug.gif. again shoving the dadoo sequence at anyone like ohh it's time for more Realism. not like a Musical musical YES like that #which is also the stance of like. broadway #anyways. a rich text. a rich discussion lol #oh and but speaking of Theatrical Releases or else my god do not let anyone tell you you gotta watch extended cut lotr #you Can. for kicks. sickos arguing ''this is thee definitive / superior experience''#like when is anything ever? but also lord of the WRONGS buzzer sound #as a plus. shorter lol

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