#reason i didnt use httyd1 is because

[rotbtd-edits]

The similiar struggles of Merida & Hiccup

Just my two cents because I love talking these movies. I find it interesting how both Merida and Hiccup share similiar conflicts/themes in their movies. They both feel pressured to become leader figures by their parents, while also stubbornly sticking to their own ideals. Merida is trained by her strict mom to become the perfect princess, and is also expected to carry out her duties through marriage. Hiccup in HTTYD2 is expected to become the next chief by his dad while Hiccup himself feels it's not for him and he can't meet the expectations. They both have other dreams and yearn to keep their freedoms. Merida wants to live her life like she wants to, and Hiccup wants to keep exploring and spreading his findings about dragons. They also have parents that at some point have refused to listen to them.

They also act in defiance to their families in order to maintain their own ideals and freedoms, wanting to do things their way instead of traditions. Merida argues against her mom, breaks the clan traditions by shooting for her own hand, and asks the witch for help to "change her mom" to agree to Merida's views. This ends up endangering her mother and the peace between the clans. Hiccup in turn refuses to listen to his parents about Drago, both who know him much better than Hiccup. Because Hiccup keeps believing anyone can change, that if he's just given the chance he can make it happen and everyone else is just hindering him in their warmongering blindness. Hiccup believes so strongly in his position as the pacifist peacemaker that he doesn't budge until it's too late. Neither Merida nor Hiccup really stops to think of the possible consiquences of their actions, they only see the positive outcomes. They feel like they're not being listened to, but they also don't listen to others either.

So they both try to escape the expectations and restrictions put on them by actively defying and being stubborn about it, that it ends up endangering everyone. The main difference is, that while Merida gets a second change and has everything fixed in the end, Hiccup ends up paying the heavy price for his mistakes.

Merida's actions get her mom turned into a bear and almost loses her completely. In the end when all seems lost Merida finally admits her fault aloud and to herself, owning up to her mistakes. Before that she also admits her careless actions against the clans and is ready to accept her duties as the princess. Merida finally sees the bigger picture outside her own point of view, that she's in a position where she simply can't think only about herself. She manages to reverse the spell and fix her relationship with her mom, who has also come to see the error in her own ways, thus ending things perfect.

Hiccup's mistakes sadly don't get as happy resolve as his stubborness ultimately ends up getting his dad killed. It's the cruel wake up call to Hiccup, how some people are simply beyond help and fighting them is the only way. It's what his dad had tried to tell him throughout the movie. Had he listened to his parents, things might have ended better, and he has to carry this guilt with him probably his whole life. Drago is the real villain and culprit, but Hiccup did play a part in how everything turned out. His part is more nuanced than Merida's, who is more clearly at fault in Brave along with her mom. After Stoick's death, Hiccup has no choice but to face the reality, own to his mistakes by stopping Drago and accept his duty as the chief. It was a harsh lesson for him, that sometimes you just can't force things to go your way, but maybe it was one he needed before becoming the leader for his tribe. Just like Merida needed to face hers to fix everything around her and correct her ways.

So yeah, like said I find it interesting how Merida and Hiccup's stories and their character growths follow similiar themes. I'm glad Merida got her happy ending, but damn now I really want to give Hiccup a hug! ;u;

[inke-ri]

*winces* yea. see, I think this hits the nail on the head. After a year I finally found the post that really explains my big issue with the hidden world. I remember back when the movie came out, and I had a minor breakdown (okay, little more than minor, might have cried a bit) over the fact that Dean constantly called the dragons "wild animals" and that directly clashed with the way I saw them (as intelligent thinking creatures capable of making their own choices). I even quoted the exact two things in OP's post, but it was in the sense of "did I seriously misunderstand the plot so badly? were Valka and Hiccup just projecting onto the dragons after all?"

I was very confused and very upset but I kept putting the blame on ME, the viewer, thinking I had missed a key part of the way this story was written... But now, after having many months for this movie to settle in the back of my head, I can see that it... Wasnt really me. It wasnt my interpretation that was faulty. I had thought so, I think because it had been hammered into my brain that Dean had thought of the ending for so many years.

It's honestly kinda funny because I went off specifically about this several dozen times - how HTTYD1, GotNF and HTTY2's themes directly contradict 3's, that the WHOLE POINT was that love > instincts - but I always missed the fact that no, it isnt just love > instincts. Its the fact that those instincts were never violent in the first place.

The movies can sometimes throw you off, because of the Alpha's control on Toothless in 2 and the way the Queen was an aggressive little tyrant in HTTYD1. But the whole point of the movies was that "everything we know about you... is wrong" (or however the quote goes, it sucks that 3 has soured even my constant rewatching of the first movie). That dragons when left on their own arent naturally distrustful and aggressive, they're kind and curious and playful and respond to trust with trust of their own.

And I guess I had forgotten, I guess I took 3's canon as hard canon and thought the problem was with me as the one analyzing it. And now my tiny little brain was just blown once more, as I remember the lesson HTTYD 1 taught us all over again. Is this how the berkians felt when Hiccup showed them dragons werent inherently evil? hah! It's almost worth it, for the delight of feeling how they felt |D

I guess its just... good to know that the problem wasnt me, y'know? it takes a weight I didnt know I had off my shoulders. It isnt really us being salty for "no reason bc the movie was great you just dont see it". Its the fact that they literally changed the core of how dragons think and behave, and slapped a HTTYD-esque coat of paint and setting over it. Of course everything is gonna feel off and weird for a fan, because they're moving and talking like Hiccup and Toothless but theres a subtle underlying difference making them out of character. and thats it, thats exactly what made all these scenes feel so off! Its cause they changed the most important rule of HTTYD's universe. When you change the very core of your world lore, its literally impossible to keep the ripple effect of that from affecting every single character. And its just so freeing, to finally understand that it wasnt just a bunch of weird decisions and scenes that dont make sense. To stop wondering how all those changes were approved of when the message of THW is so contradicting of the rest of the series. Its literally just one change- a massive one, but so subtle that you dont really realize how much it impacts the plot until someone in tumblr whacks you over the head with it.

Valka: This wasn’t a vicious beast, but an intelligent, gentle creature whose soul reflected my own.

THW crew: