#really would love your input Tolkien Fandom

[mythopoeticreality]

Okay, so basically I’m here working on The Road Goes Ever On and trying to figure out the Noldorin relationship to...well basically Nature in general. And on the one hand here, there is evidence from Lord of the Rings that Elves -- as a whole -- can and do hear and communicate with nature. You have Legolas who can sense the ancientness of Fangorn forest and says how young it makes him feel, as well as his remarks while the Fellowship is in Hollin: “But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.’ 

You also have Treebeard, talking about the elves of Cuiviénen and how they not only woke the trees up and taught them to speak, but learned the trees own Language: “Elves began it, of course, waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learning their tree-talk. They always wished to talk to everything, the old Elves did”  

On top of that, going back even further to the Silmarillion it is mentioned that Celegorm has learned to speak the Languages of the Birds and Beasts of Middle Earth while Traveling in Oromë’s company. Indeed, Elves in General (as shown, again, through Legolas) seem to have this natural way with animals.

So from the beginning you have elves, these beings who posses these powers of Speach and Communication, and they want to share it with the world. They want to communicate with everything, and in so doing they build this relationship with it.

But this isn’t something I’ve really picked up on much in the Silmarillion? Again, you do have Celegorm, who can speak to animals -- but that talent is presented as being noteworthy, mentioned in relation to his being a Great hunter and a follower of  Oromë. The Silmarillion, told from the Noldorin perspective, is focused much more on the relationships between the Noldor themselves: the politics and intrigues amongst the separate branches of the Royal family; The sparkling white-walled cities they’ve built; the items and objects they’ve created-- ranging from jewels and gemstones, to the Palantíri and Fëanorian lamps, to the Silmaills themselves -- and the wars they’ve raged.

Is the answer in that in Lord of the Rings, our representative of the Elves is Legolas? Legolas who is not Noldorin, but rather Sindarin and raised within the culture of the Silvan elves -- Wood-elves, who are supposed to be closer to nature. A scattered folk who are said to be hardly distinguishable from the Avari. 

I can’t help but go back to that quote from Legolas in Hollin while thinking about this: “But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them.” The elves that inhabited Hollin -- Eregion -- were Noldor. And it isn’t the trees or plant life that do remember them. Only the stones of their former city, the things they made.

I can’t help but wonder if during their time on Valinor the Noldor might have...lost something? If during their tutelage under the Valar they began focusing more and more on building up Tirion and creating these wonders. If their own feuds and drama between one another became more and more consuming. If they did start focusing more on themselves and this relationship with trees and stones became nearly forgotten. Maybe, under Noldorin scholarship it became relegated to an almost half-folkloric sort of place? Maybe the first generations upon Valinor did try to teach the Trees and stones to speak as well. But maybe the Noldor soon came to see such things only as material for their own creations and only a few could still retain the ability to hear them.

I mean, just look at Fëanor himself -- the epitome of a Noldo if there ever was one. He created the Silmarills from the light of Telperion and Laurelin -- Yavanna’s ultimate creation, perhaps the ultimate expression of Nature in Arda, sun and moon and trees all in one. But  Fëanor regards the Silmarills as his and his alone, something he alone made and is entitled to.

Anyway, that was what I was able to come up with! If anyone smarter or better versed in Tolkien Lore has any thoughts or opinions on this please do comment! I gotta...get this figured out...

[radioactive-earthshine]

I just started following you and your post about welcoming all fans of Tolkien really made me happy bc I just joined in the fandom after an artist I like drew some Angbang. That was the beginning of the end lol. I have been reading wiki articles but I know that is not near enough and is it exhausting for me but from what I know there are loads of books too and I don't know where to start. Where should someone start? Is there a reading order? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Angbang has yet again pulled the unsuspecting victim straight into the void. I don’t think Tolkien would have imagined that the love of his two main villains would bring in readers, but anyway, however you got here: welcome! We don’t have cookies, but we do have feels and literal decades of writing to sift through. Your stay will be as long as you choose, and that may be a long, long while. I have been in the fandom for nearly 20 years and I still have not read everything or explored everything yet. 

One thing I would like to impart on you though is this; reading Tolkien is hard. Yes some people will counter this with a sniff and a scoff and insist that it is not, but most will find his work daunting and overwhelming. If not in how it is written then in the sheer volume of information and variations of his legendarium. What helped me profoundly was reading it not as a fun casual fantasy but as a historical subject. When you put your mind in a state of what to expect out of it really helps your understanding of the text I feel.

As for reading order I personally think you should tackle it as so; 

The Hobbit (keep in mind this is written before much of his own lore was settled and is meant to be a children’s book). 

The Lord of the Rings (one tale, three volumes with the Appendices which are a great resource and gear you up for some HISTORY).

The Silmarillion.

Reading these five books first I feel is a great basic start and they are more or less consistent and are most “in sync” with each other. Don’t shy away from taking notes, however, particularly with The Silmarillion because from that point on it is delving into his legendarium, and the difficulty increases with each one. 

The next round of books you might want to read are as follows;

Unfinished Tales

Children of Hurin

Letters (you can choose to read these here or after everything else, I know many people who saved the letters for last thought that it would have made better sense to read them during their first readings at some point.)

The rest of your journey should be the collective Histories of Middle Earth, all twelve volumes, and these are not for the faint of heart. Be prepared to take notes, be prepared to have a lot of contradiction and don’t come into them thinking that everything you will then read is gospel. If you are anything like me you will create a mosaic of what you like and sort of mush them together to make your own appealing version of events. 

I. The Book of Lost Tales, part 1

II. The Book of Lost Tales, part 2

III. The Lays of Beleriand

IV. The Shaping of Middle-earth

V.  The Lost Road and Other Writings

These first five go over a lot of the events of The Silmarillion (the first and second ages) and contain some of the earliest writings of Tolkien.

VI. The Return of the Shadow

VII. The Treason of Isengard

VIII. The War of the Ring

IX. Sauron Defeated

These four, as you may be able to tell from the titles, focus mostly on the events of The Lord of the Rings and the later second age through the third age. 

X. Morgoth’s Ring

XI. The War of the Jewels

We’re back to The Silmarillion. These two books are cited a lot in Tolkien analysis partly due to the interesting information he provided in them (LACE is in volume X) and they are comparatively newer writings, so some fans like to consider these as more close to what the professor was going for in his legendarium. 

XII. The Peoples of Middle-earth

The final volume is a lot of miscellaneous writings that spans all ages, it’s like the kitchen junk drawer for the professor’s writing. 

Of course we also have new books as well to add to the list that are profoundly useful such as; 

Beren and Luthien (2017)

This is a nifty book that focuses entirely on Luthien’s epic adventure and the drafts Tolkien wrote of it. It is a great resource.  

The Fall of Gondolin (set to be published this year 2018)

Will also be like Beren and Luthien in that it centralizes on writings concerning this one event making it easier to study. Whew. Thank you Christopher Tolkien! 

There also are a plethora of writings other people have done to supplement Tolkien’s writings intended to be good resources. Some are. Some are questionable. And others I just don’t even understand how they even got published. 

My personal favorite supplementary resources are; 

The Atlas of Middle-earth (revised edition) by; Karen Wynn Fonstad

This is a guide to the geography of Arda through the ages and so much more. A great resource to the change in landscape and military movements and general data about the landscape and the people who live there. 

The Languages of Tolkien’s Middle-earth by; Ruth S. Noel

Short and sweet but it provides a quick and easy way to look at a glance the rules of each language. Dictionary is really pathetic but you can find better ones online, this book however has the language guides such as sentence structure and pronunciation. I like it because it is in one small book so looking things up is convenient. 

Flora of Middle-earth. Plants of J.R.R. Tolkien’s Legendarium by; Walter S. Judd & Graham A. Judd

Tolkien was a great admirer of plants and these two compiled an entire book of each and every plant species mentioned in his writings, fictional and non. An interesting perspective. Has a fantastic section on the two trees of Valinor that for that part alone is worth buying. A love song for Yavanna. 

The Science of Middle Earth (revised 2nd edition) by; Henry Gee

This book. This is my absolute favorite book anyone has written about Tolkien, period. This author goes into the possible science for HOW Tolkien’s world could function; as it is clear that Middle-earth is not a playground for magic but something much more fascinating. A great perspective. 

This of course is my personal opinion for how to tackle reading, if you wanted an order. I did NOT read the books in order at all, and I admit I have not read some of these myself to completion. 

If you are going to read anything I would definitely read the first five then from there on if it is just too daunting/overwhelming I would supplement yourself with select books focusing on what interests you the most. Also, engage in conversations with other fans, that alone helped me most of all when it came to understanding the writings. If you are lucky your university or college might even have a course on it. If anyone else has an input it would be appreciated, as always. 

Welcome to the fandom, happy reading. 

[captaingondor]

tagged by @eddis-not-eeddis ! thank you thank you!

1. How did you start writing and how?

As far as  can recall, I only seriously started trying to write stores after I’d read Lord of the Rings for the first time, so I blame Tolkien. I wrote several quickly-poured-out attempts on loose pages of lined paper, with a dozen or so ‘chapters’ each taking a line or two, before I began gathering and developing ideas for larger works, none of which I ever completed.

2. What is your favorite line from your own work?

Ohhhh I could not ever decide! But I did some perusing and picked one I liked from what I wrote in April on Red and Gray, and I’m not going to spend the time reading through everything I’ve written to see if there’s something I like better, so here it is:

He was a hunting bird, a falcon, and his fine plumage was a tool that carried him into the sky and down for the kill - less colorful than some birds, perhaps, but far more dangerous.

3. Who is your writing idol, and how have they influenced you?

I mean, my greatest inspiration is of course, as stated, Tolkien, but how much influence he has had on my style is... less. I cite Shannon Hale and Veronica Roth as influences a lot - VRoth I think really made me think about themes, what I wanted to say with my stories and characters, because that’s what stuck with me so much from her work. 

4. Which oc has the best family (found or otherwise)?

I’m gonna say Rinnyx. (The E-squad become a great found family, but I haven’t written them to it yet so it feels like cheating.) Rinnyx’s family has their problems, their disagreements, but at the end of the day they’re always going to be there for each other. (Except his dad, but he doesn’t count.)

5. Which oc has the most satisfying ending to their story?

I’ll let you know when I finish writing their stories. (Not that I don’t know where they’ll end up, but it’s the journey that makes it satisfying, you know? Also I’m still working really hard to end Rinnyx and Seyetto’s arcs in the most satisfying way)

6. If you’ve gotten feedback on your writing, who is your readers’ favourite character? If not who do you think readers will fall in love with?

This is what I lie awake at night wondering about. I’m always trying to think how a potential fandom would react to my children. If anyone has any input from seeing me babble about my OCs, please do let me know. 

There’s several that I think could have equally ardent supporters and detractors. But someone I think people will just like is Juq.

7. Which tropes (eg. Friends to lovers, fake death, white haired pretty boy) do you always find yourself wanting to write?

I always end up writing about strong sibling or platonic relationships. It just keeps happening and I’ve just accepted it. 

8. What goes through your head when writing a scene?

Different parts of the scene, or bits of dialog, or things I want to convey in it, all out of order, that I have to try to sort through and organize.

Except when I’m writing conversation between Rinnyx and Seyetto, that just flows, thanks you two

9. How specific is your idea of your characters’ appearance usually? Do you draw them? (If so can we see it?)

It varies. Some I have a very well defined mental picture, some I have a few basic traits. Some are growing and shifting.  Sadly I do not draw.

10. What are you proudest of as a writer?

Creating these characters out of the void and filling them with life. I just hope they can feel as alive to other people as they do to me.

I’ll tag @aceofstars16, @thegingerparty, and @neveroutoftime

[vardasvapors]

🔥 like, elrond? Tell me about elrond

While I don’t remember if I said it myself, I believe my reblogs and tags have indicated my opinion that Tolkien’s wording as well as basic extrapolation strongly suggests Elrond closely identified with his Numenorean kin, but lemme try for something more actually contrary:

This is a prime example of how funny a thing fanon is, but when I read the Silm I was totally insulated from all fandom input and so my ideas about Elrond and Elros as a set of twins wound up very different from fanon. Like, there’s this idea of Elrond being very scholarly and quiet and reserved and unadventurous, especially in contrast to Elros. Which I did not pick up on in isolation at all because, what stuck out to me about Elrond when I read LOTR as a kid was his…ridiculous level of bluntness about how difficult or dangerous something will be or how much is riding on it (I was SO AMUSED at that bit where he’s just, to Aragorn, “lol if you don’t succeed everyone is doomed no pressure!!11”) And that thing where he was simultaneously like gently, “there’s no reasonable way this is ever gonna work” and “we absolutely have to do this” which I didn’t really have the framework to talk about until I read the Athrabeth, but which still struck me very strongly.

And then in the Silm, there’s that idea of, well Elrond became a loremaster, while Elros became a king. But, I imagined, post-apocalyptic loremastery with no stable institutions would be like, exploring this strange ME to collect or write down the lore and stories and history from unknown peoples or from the survivors of Beleriand; whereas Numenor is similar in its unexplored newness but is this specially prepared hallowed peaceful island, and I thought, the first king of such a place would be a visionary, a planner, a builder - a dreamer even! And I guess, it’s often mentioned that Elrond is a healer? But I barely remembered this because he’s not mentioned as a healer until the 3rd Age, whereas Elros…well, one of my first thoughts about Elros was to flash back to the first time I read ROTK, and that line “the hands of the King are the hands of a healer,” where I was like, “since when?” And once I wrapped my head around who Elros was, I was like “oh! since then?”

And in just stitching things together, I was reminded of that ridiculawesome Mary Sue description from the Hobbit: “He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer.” So many different things, and so much overreaching – to live two lives even, or at least, to live one immortal life to the brim! And I feel like, especially given that his choice to become immortal means being separated from Elros by death forever, there’s a strong element of, “what’s the point of being immortal if I don’t take advantage of having all the time in the world?” And so my impression of younger!Elrond was the guy who is like, learn ALL THE THINGS! Become immortal in order to have all the time to do all the things and see all the things, because the world is so great and there’s so much of it…

Ofc this is Tolkien so everyone goes to hell and there’s a ton of war and really, chilling in a green valley and innkeeping is the A+ life, though also over the ages, it becomes more desperate, “what was the point of becoming immortal if I don’t use it” regarding Sauron and the rings, and the Akallabeth, and the Dunedain. But also…there’s this impression in fandom, and a bit in the text too, that Elros was like, an ideal human? Or, no, not the ideal in the sense of being better than other humans, but having an ideal appreciation of human mortality because he chose it freely. I love that, and I think the same would apply to Elrond, for elves. There’s that other description of him in LOTR: “in his face was the memory of many things both glad and sorrowful.” And…isn’t that close to the ideal for immortality? The focus is usually on how immortality sucks because of all the endless inescapable sorrow, but immortality also means unlimited opportunities for gladness and glad times if you can keep them in your memory, like he apparently has. Those fifteen chieftains! The line “both the sweet and the bitter” is applied to choosing mortality in LOTR, but it applies to immortality just as well.

But anyway, the point is, 2nd age Elrond, literally the most carpe diem of elves! Even though he has unlimited…diems…to…carp…I don’t speak latin at all guys.

[zeldafanartyasilly]

Do Fibonacci's numbers!

1.     if someone wanted to reallyunderstand you, what would they read, watch, and listen to?

hoooo boy….. This is a long post….

First and foremost, basic philosophy. My man Aristotle, his Teacher, Plato. And of course the very verbose, Socrates. Those guys not only shaped western thinking, but with that, shaped science and the scientific method… speaking of PASCAL, my man, scientist, philosopher, even stayed religious, Pascal’s wager. mm mm mm. IMMANUEL KANT that guy just took the Golden Rule and extrapolated it to cover a lot of bases, quite a bit of HEGAL he was a horrible writer, but had a lot of good input on wisdom/history and our own understanding of ourselves and human nature. LEARNING FROM IDEAS YOU EMOTIONALLY DISLIKE. I really relate to him. (here is a really good summary of his views)  Twilight Zone, Star Trek (TOS). I watched a lot of old, cheesy, cerebral Sci-Fi with morals to the story. THE LORD OF THE RINGS, Tolkien’s philosophies are so interesting; his short story “Leaf by Niggle” really resonates with me. Also a lot of world war ii documentaries went into my childhood as well; in fact history channel was great, before it became reality TV. So an understanding of diverse historical causes and effects really shapes the way I view the world. Humor-wise, Monty Python shaped me from the age of 4 onward. so i am a tad odd and see things differently

2.     have you ever found a writer whothinks just like you? if so, who?

As you go through college, and start working you have less time to read… well when I spend my free time drawing and playing video games, that doesn’t help. One book that reflected my thoughts was The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. Basically, if you really want something and focus on getting it, the universe will conspire to help you achieve that goal. You just can’t get distracted and give up. I know it sounds kinda like hippie-dippie mumbo-jumbo, but just being optimistic and resolute got me through a lot of stuff.

3.     list your fandoms and one characterfrom each that you identify with.

Lord of the Rings: Some days I’m Gandalf, some days I’m Pippin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Legend of Zelda: Can’t really think of a character like me.

Star Trek: Some days I’m Spock, some days I’m McCoy

Kuroshitsuji: In general, I think it is healthy not to find Manga/Anime characters too relatable. Their personalities can be annoyingly exaggerated. A bit of Ciel I suppose… idk

Ghibli: Ursula from Kiki’s Delivery Service. The self-confidant lady artist that lives in the woods with a bunch of crows (my silly dream). Her art wasn’t really that good but she was cool. Sounds like me.

5.     do you think of yourself as a humanbeing or a human doing? do you identify yourself by the things you do?

Human doing. I am always painfully aware of it. I believe you are the actions you choose to do. OR choose not to do. I get a little too caught up in thinking rather than taking action.

8. whatmusical artists have you most felt connected to over your lifetime?

None really. I never took to time to even learn band member names haha

13.insideor outdoors?

Outdoors. I like being in nature with other people or alone. But when I am indoors, I prefer to be alone… kinda weird.

21. do youlove easily?

No. Never have loved easily. It is a painfully slow build up for me. I really have to understand the person’s character over time before I let myself love them on any level. But I those I do eventually love stay loved. And my old good friends stay good friends in my mind.