#randy marsh this is your fault somehow

[crab-people-overlord]

Ok, so I reread my last post about Stan's characterization in fanfics, and I realized I focused too much on just the Kyman community. The truth is, some of the most frustrating mischaracterizations actually pop up in Style fics (and I say this as someone who writes Style). These same issues show up in K2 and other ships too, but since Style is literally centered around Stan and Kyle's dynamic, it hits harder here. *Quick Disclaimer:* Again, this isn't calling out ANY specific creators - y'all are talented af and I respect everyone's right to interpret characters their own way. I genuinely love this community. Write whatever floats your boat! I hope to one day be a lot of ya'll, fr. The way I interpret characters isn't gonna be the gospel truth, and anyone can write characters how they want! That's literally what fandom is about. But can we talk about some patterns? Because... (*gestures vaguely at everything*)

The "Smart Kyle/Dumb Stan" Phenomenon

Look, I love a good "Stan is occasionally an idiot" moment as much as anyone (the boy has his moments, let's be real). But there's this weird trend of making him consistently intellectually inferior to Kyle and I'm just like... did we watch the same show for the past two decades??

Also, fun fact (and I fkn hate that I even have to say this): this whole "Jewish character must = intellectual first and foremost" stereotype we keep falling into? Let's maybe... not? Especially since the show gives us a Kyle who's equally good at sports and just as socially competent as Stan. Part of what draws me to this fandom is how multifaceted all these characters are! Because if you actually watch the show? Kyle is smart, sure, but he’s also athletic, socially competent, and rebellious. He’s not just the token brainiac. Characters can be multifaceted!

STAN (Pls I BEG you he's more than just his depression and alcoholism):

Stan often demonstrates critical thinking, seeing beyond surface-level problems to deeper issues. This often expresses in a more critical thinking lens (emphasis on the word 'critical' and 'cynical', as demonstrated so often in the show such as the vote or die episode or when he tries saving kyle that psychic, etc). Stan often sees through bullshit- this is literally critical thinking at it's finest. And while again, you can characterize him as you see fit - I just don't get fics that characterize him as stupid when there's so much evidence to the contrary. While luckliy I don't see these fics as often, Stan characterized primarily as dumb genuinely makes me feel like I'm reading a completely different character as we have literally over two decades of him demonstrating a high critical thinking ability.

His cynicism isn't just him being negative - it's usually him being RIGHT and REALISTIC about shit

NOT easily manipulated (unlike certain best friends we know and love)

He literally leads entire movements when he cares enough

The fact that his depression and emotional sensitivity can sometimes get twisted into him being "less than" is honestly infuriating

KYLE (not just the smart one!!):

Kyle excels at moral reasoning and debate, but can sometimes get caught up in righteous anger. Hes the most consistent at standing up for society's greater good. This is something incredibly admirable, yet at the same time, can at times reduce him to seeing moral issues on an incredibly black and white angle compared to Stan and others in the show, just like Kyle's own mom.

He should be acknowledged for his backbone in standing up for what's right (he's so morally brave), while at the same time acknowledging that at times this causes him to lose some nuance and grey in situations that call for it

He's also known for being the intelectually and grade-wise best of the class. This is partially due to his own parental expectations of doing well in class as well as his own natural ambition and intelligence.

Top of the class but also the most consistently in the show not afraid to throw hands

Complex mix of rule-following and rebellion

Gets manipulated by Cartman more than he'd admit

Both show high ability to analyze complex situations, just through different lenses. Stan through a more critical, nuanced lens, and Kyle through a more consistently yet at times missing nuance lens. Neither are more 'right' than the other, so I hate any 'realistic' claiming fics (i fkn love crack fics lmao) that try to show otherwise.

The Depression Thing (🥺)

Here's what's actually infuriating to me: when works treat Stan's depression and emotional sensitivity as proof he's "less than." Like... my dudes... my buddies and pals... (me reaching out to my Canadian friends fr)... my fellow fans... that's not how depression works??

Stan's depression and cynicism sometimes get misinterpreted as lack of intelligence - something too many folks with depression get misinterpreted as. His coping mechanisms might be unhealthy (looking at you, alcohol), but they don't negate his ability to think critically or problem-solve. Using alcohol to cope isn't a sign of weakness (it's incredibly unhealthy, not saying otherwise)— but it's a sign of someone who's overwhelmed and trying to survive.

Society often equates emotional sensitivity with weakness, especially in men, and I'm so tired of it. Stan's emotional intelligence should complement his analytical abilities, not detract from them. There's a reason he gets called a "hippie" or "pussy," but these traits should be celebrated, especially when they're often mocked in boys.

Tropes I'm Begging Us All to Reconsider, in ALL representations of Stan and Kyle despite the ship:

Making Kyle the "rational caretaker" to Stan's "emotional mess"

Reducing Kyle to just the “smart Jew” stereotype rather than someone who equally breaks rules, etc

Both being smart in completely different chaotic ways

Stan's emotional intelligence as a strength

Their complex friendship that works BECAUSE they're equals

The classic 'sensitivity and addiction' = 'loser' and 'selfish idiot' trope that needs to die in a fire

Some things to remember:

Their friendship demonstrates equal give-and-take. This is canonical. And I would love to see more of a balance of this in fanworks as well.

kyle shouldn't just be the 'smart jew' with no flaws with stan being the 'sensitive' hippie'. they're both equally complex.

both are smart in different chaotic and different ways

Stan’s emotional intelligence being useful, not a flaw.

Kyle's moral compass spinning occasionally (because it does, just like everyone else on the show lmfao)

But seriously, write what you want! this isn't even me saying he can't even be written as an antagonist in a story just like any other SP character. Just maybe consider that Stan’s character is genuinely pretty complex (And Kyle's!). Reducing him to “the dumb/broken one” does him (and those who struggle with similar issues) a disservice. 💙

Understanding Stan Marsh: A Character Analysis and Response to Fandom Mischaracterization (Writing Depression/Addiction Responsibly):

I’m sure a similar analysis exists - but I haven’t found it so I wanted to make it. I’ve seen similar analyses about Wendy with her intelligence/tendency to serve as a villain in things like Style fics and Kenny with his own addiction as well as lower-class designations, which absolutely should exist. But I haven’t seen any about Stan in the same sense despite issues I’ve seen in fandom about his characterization and either blatantly disregarding and misunderstanding what depression is/or/trying to further their specific shipping agenda such as Kyman. And I think it’s finally time we fucking talk about it. This is due to me noticing a prolific increase in the ‘Stan Marsh is an asshole’ tag on AO3.

The Problem of Character Flanderization

Character flanderization (the tendency to focus only on a character's weaknesses) has always existed in fanworks, but the current treatment of Stan Marsh reveals a particularly troubling trend in how mental health and addiction are portrayed. This isn't about calling out specific creators - many (even most) write Stan beautifully, even in ships like Kyman. Rather, this analysis addresses a broader pattern of mischaracterization that does a disservice not only to his character but to real people struggling with similar issues.

Please note this analysis is not directed at any particular creator at all! I see SO many good characterizations of Stan, even in Kyman fics (I’d argue a lot of them do!). But I also see very unfair portrayals of him in some fics which at the end of the day show a complete disregard to addiction/depression and ignore his good traits in favor of furthering their own agenda. I’M NOT OKAY with this, and I think it’s time we talk about this as a fandom. 

 This trend often manifests in two primary ways:

Depression Mischaracterization:

Some of fandom's handling of Stan's depression reveals a profound misunderstanding of clinical depression that goes beyond simple character misinterpretation. The "You're Getting Old/Ass Burgers" arc isn't just about Stan being "negative" or "selfish" - it's one of television's most authentic portrayals of how depression manifests in young people. Stan doesn't CHOOSE to see everything as shit; his brain chemistry literally alters his perception of reality. This isn't character weakness - it's a medical condition that he fights against while still trying to maintain his relationships and sense of self.

What many fanworks miss is that depression often coexists with deep empathy and care for others. In fact, Stan's depression might partly stem from how deeply he feels things - his awareness of environmental destruction, animal cruelty, and societal hypocrisies. He continues to fight for causes he believes in and protect those he loves even while struggling to find meaning in his own life. That's not selfishness - it's remarkable resilience. The show demonstrates this complexity brilliantly: even at his very  lowest points, Stan still:

Tries to maintain his friendship with Kyle despite literally seeing him as shit

Continues to stand up for what he believes in when he realistically thinks it can make an impact

Attempts to understand and help others, even when he can barely help himself

Fights desperately to stay present in a world that has lost its color and meaning

When fanworks reduce Stan's depression to mere selfishness or use it as a convenient plot device to make him the villain, they not only mischaracterize Stan but potentially harm readers struggling with similar issues. They send the message that depression makes someone unworthy of friendship or love - exactly the opposite of what people with depression need to hear.

Alcoholism Mischaracterization:

Stan's relationship with alcohol deserves particular attention because it's portrayed with a nuance rarely seen in either animation or fanworks. The show presents a complex web of factors that contribute to Stan's relationship with alcohol:

First, there's the genetic component - Stan comes from a family with clear predisposition to addiction, particularly through Randy. But crucially, Stan never sought out alcohol on his own. He was introduced to it by adults who should have protected him, making his initial exposure a betrayal of trust rather than a character flaw.

What makes Stan's arc so powerful is how it captures the insidious nature of functional alcoholism. He discovers that alcohol makes an unbearable world bearable - it literally changes how he sees things from "shit" back to normal. STAN HAS NEVER EVER BEEN ABOUT getting drunk for fun; it's always been about self-medication to seem 'normal' to others in response to genuine mental health struggles. The show demonstrates how someone can be both struggling with addiction and highly competent - a reality many fanworks seem unable to grasp.

Even in the "bad timeline" of the Post-Covid episodes, Stan maintains his fundamental characteristics and ability to function. He becomes what's known as a "functional alcoholic" - not because this is healthy, but because it reflects a tragic reality that those who seem most adjusted often hide the deepest struggles. He learns exactly how much alcohol makes him functional versus dysfunctional, developing the kind of careful management that allows many real-life individuals with addiction to hide in plain sight.

When fanworks reduce this complex portrayal to "pathetic or asshole drunk Stan," they miss the point entirely. They ignore:

The environmental factors that led to his alcohol use

The relationship between his depression and self-medication

The reality that addiction often coexists with high functionality

And especially, and something I think a lot of you need to fucking understand - the way addiction can stem from trying to feel normal rather than trying to get high. Stan never ever tries to feel ‘high’ or even drunk. He ALWAYS is just trying to feel fucking NORMAL. 

This oversimplification doesn't just do a disservice to Stan's character - it perpetuates harmful stereotypes about addiction that make it harder for real people to seek help.

Stan's Core Character Traits

Stan consistently demonstrates practical morality alongside emotional depth. His quiet leadership often goes unnoticed - he's frequently the instigator of group plans alongside Cartman, but without the manipulation or need for credit. His relationship with Wendy shows realistic pre-teen awkwardness while maintaining genuine care and respect. These aren't the traits of a "simp" or an "asshole" - they're the complex characteristics of a well-written character dealing with real challenges.

Just rewatch the show for evidence of this - Stan at the same level of Cartman instigates things. And at the same level of Kyle, he tends to do it for the greater good of society. He’s just not as attributed to his actions because he’s naturally more quiet about it than both Kyle and Cartman are. 

TLDR- /Mental Health and Responsiblity in Writing:

The show's handling of Stan's mental health offers a masterclass in nuanced characterization that many fanworks ignore. His depression and struggles with alcohol aren't plot devices - they're part of a larger narrative about growing up in a world that often doesn't make sense. Writing Stan as a "pathetic drunk" or "selfish depressive" isn't just bad characterization - it's potentially harmful to readers who share these struggles

His depression on the actual show is shown as a legitimate struggle, not a character flaw

His relationship with alcohol is portrayed as functional and carefully managed - something maybe some of you would be surprised to learn that some of the most functional folks in your life actually are pretty good at hiding. Stan in his depression arc is ultimately meant to be shown as someone who is a ‘functional’ alcoholic rather than a ‘dysfunctional’ one. That’s not to say it’s healthier to be functional. But it’s ultimately the whole point of that goddamn arc - that even those who seem the most well-adjusted may be hiding a more sinister addiction. So I don’t really see the fucking point of writing Stan as someone who is so alcoholic to the point that it fucks up his entire life. 

The Shipping Problem

The rise of ships like Kyman often comes with an unnecessary cost: the villainization of Stan. This ignores the show's complex web of relationships - Stan's deep friendship with Kyle doesn't need to be erased or twisted to explore other relationships. The best Kyman fics prove this by maintaining Stan's character integrity while exploring new dynamics. Additionally, Stan's relationships with other characters, particularly his often-overlooked friendship with Kenny, deserve more attention and respect in fanworks.

Complex relationships can be written without villainizing other characters like Stan

Good Kyman fics prove you can write the ship while maintaining Stan's character integrity. 

Both Kyle and Stan canonically view each other as super best friends and equals- and this is because they literally ARE equals, even in a moral sense. Neither of them is better than the other. They have a deep connection to each other. Any fic written about either of them HAS to accurately represent this without making Stan to be a primarily weak selfish villain. This is so incredibly unfair to Stan’s character, and a massive representation of him. Same if it’s vice versa for a fic for Stan misrepresenting Kyle (though I’ll be honest - I far more often see Stan as misrepresented in recent works as a selfish asshole over Kyle). 

When writing Stan, consider:

His actions, even negative ones, should stem from established character traits

His struggles with mental health and substance use should be treated with nuance and care. Writing him as an asshole or complete loser (he can be a lil bit of a lovingly designated loser lol) is a slap in the face to those who do function quite well in the real world but with this particular struggle of depression and addiction. Don’t ignore Stan's many strengths, such as adjusting well to things in the moment both physically and intellectually. (He absolutely can be dumb about some things to the extent that it's humorous, but he is not actually dumb - he consistently shows some of the most complex critical thinking in the entire show, even compared to Kyle. And it makes no sense to disregard this aspect of his character.) 

His relationships with other characters should reflect their canonical complexity.

If writing him as antagonistic, ensure it serves character development rather than plot convenience.

Stan deserves better than reductive characterization. His struggles with mental health and addiction make him more relatable, not less worthy of respect. Writers who reduce him to his lowest moments not only do a disservice to a complex character but potentially harm readers who see their own battles reflected in his story. We can and should do better - both for Stan and for each other. He is literally meant to be written as the person most relatable to general society, after all.