#quiteshocking

[quiteshocking]

one chara theory i really like is that chara isn't their birth name, but the name they came up with for themself after falling into the underground. makes the player's ability to choose their name at the beginning of the game fit into the lore rather than only being a gameplay element for the twist

[quiteshocking]

(looking at a fictional character) my best friend :] *kisses them sweetly*

(looking at another character) my best friend :] *throws them down a flight of stairs*

[radibe5]

hey y'all, if you like undertale/deltarune follow me on @quiteshocking instead! im slightly more active on there.

a papyrus to catch your attention

i would say sorry for not knowing how to resize images but him. he's too important for that

[quiteshocking]

I DON'T CARE I DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ANYMORE THIS IS MY NEW PFP SCREW MY ART THIS IS ALL I COULD EVER NEED

PAPYRUS CAPE PAPYRUS CAPE PAPYRUS CAPE PAPYRUS CAPE

[quiteshocking]

WAIT A WHOLE FREAKIN SECOND RIGHT NOW, WAIT

[Image ID: Flowey saying: “You know. Smiley Trashbag.” in one of his post-neutral dialogues.]

[Image ID: Papyrus saying: “AFTER ALL, I’M HOUSEMATES WITH A LAZY BAG OF TRASH!” in his phone call in the save point room of Waterfall’s dump.]

WHO STARTED IT. WHO GOT IT FROM WHOM, THIS IS CRITICAL INFO

[quiteshocking]

Oh yeah, the other humans very likely had the power to reset/reload, probably including Chara. Toriel's not the only one to imply it-- Asgore nods sadly when you tell him he's killed you before.

In all likelihood, however, Chara probably just didn't know they could reset. Flowey didn't either until he nearly died, and when Chara died, they didn't want to resist death like he did-- that would compromise the plan.

Why Chara couldn't reset combined with Asriel, though... I'm guessing Asriel or both of them were too resigned to their deaths to reset? Or, perhaps, the ability to reset began after their deaths for some reason.

Anyway, the other 6 humans very likely could reset. Asgore and Toriel both seem to somewhat recognize resets from previous humans, and Alphys extracted determination from those 6 souls, not Frisk's. That's where Flowey got determination in the first place.

every day i think about what flowey said after true pacifist ending. what he said to chara. what was that all about?

[quiteshocking]

Also I find it suspicious that Toby specifically told fangamer to not make any merch of the lightener characters because apparently of possible drastic story development regarding to the lightener cast and I definitely think it is to ensure that no spoilers gets leaked out on merch

Woah, dang, he did that?

..yep! Apparently! Didn't realize he actually set a hard limit, I don't really go on Twitter. https://twitter.com/reidman/status/1444790336199356425 (this is one of the co-founders of fangamer, if anyone doesn't know.) I'll put some replies down, too (and pretend anyone who doesn't already know all this is reading lol).

("well im not gonna speculate" -immediately starts speculating xD)

Worth noting that the reasons for the limit are all speculation on this guy's part

It's definitely suspicious, huh? He might just be covering all his bases, judging by the "partly philosophical" thing. Not wanting to do merch for the lightners specifically definitely does make it seem like there's something to hide there, although there are pins and shirts (2D stuff) with some of them now, so..?

And the plushies... it occurs to me that having fun, quirky stuff inside instead of a soul is something Ralsei has in common with the skeleton brothers, though Toriel is the only one with a soul so that's probably irrelevant. Regardless, if Toby allowed plushies of the lightners, I'd think they could just have fun character-relevant stuff (or nothing at all like Lancer), no real worry of spoilers. If not wanting an in-progress character's plushie was the issue, then it's kinda weird we have two of Ralsei, even if he is a darkner.

Eh, well. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[quiteshocking]

You know what I’ve realize? The most weirdest monsters are probably the skeletons and ghosts in undertale aka the type of monsters that associated with death? Like Naptsablook just ignored being absorbed by Flowey or whatever is up with Papyrus such as how he’s capable of floating upward just by walking

Ah, another intellectual, I see! Someone who acknowledges that Papyrus also breaks the laws of physics on a whim, not just Sans. He's just already such an eccentric character that people forget to notice how weird his movements can be!

(I can't find gifs for the other ones, argh >_>)

That is definitely a curiosity, that both ghosts and skeletons seem to be unique. Another connection I never made myself. They do seem to be the only undead-themed monsters (iirc), and they also happen to be the most unusual...

Either you're on to something big here, or it might be another coincidence. Ghosts didn't really get much of a highlight in Undertale and Deltarune isn't yet long enough for us to know if they will be important (beyond the little reference in Spamton NEO).

If you asked me, judging by the skeletons' central part in Undertale and their vague connections to Gaster, as well as their habit of featuring prominently in outside-of-game stuff like trailers and tumblr and the q&a, the skeletons are unique for very specific and special reasons. On the other hand, we haven't seen much of the ghosts, and honestly, I think the only reasons the ghosts are so confusing is simply because Toby built his own concept of ghosts in his head and we just can't see into his brain to figure out exactly how it all fits together.

As for Napstablook not getting absorbed... this is just guessing, but perhaps it was a combination of incorporeality and the fact that they were inside and saw the light coming, considering they specifically mentioned shutting the light outside. Maybe being outside Undyne's house meant Mad Dummy didn't see it coming and couldn't resist in time. Technically, Mad Dummy might have even found out about everything from outside sources like Napstablook, or fused with the dummy sometime behind the scenes. (I'd check if the dummy in the ruins, who's an unbonded ghost, has any notable dialogue after the Asriel fight, but the text project I'm using doesn't seem to have that recorded and my computer with Undertale installed is kinda bricked rn haha.)

Being perfectly honest, I think it was just a gag about Napstablook getting excluded and Mad Dummy not being excluded was an oversight, haha.

You might be onto something, though! We'll just have to wait and see if ghosts end up playing a more prominent role/having weird connections/implications in Deltarune.

[quiteshocking]

ok so is no one gonna talk about how weird monsters are in deltarune

ok so this post is gonna be garbage and no one’s gonna see it but i swear i’ve never seen anyone talk about this??? monsters make no freakin sense in deltarune like literally at all??

(sorry ahead of time for clumsy sourcing i don’t wanna hunt for screenshots rn)

like monsters have always been a lil confusing with their biology even in undertale, what with monster food supposedly not passing all the way through the body (grillby’s) yet monster kid talks about wetting the bed (umbrella trail) and sans is handing out toilet paper tickets (shyren fight), which is continued in deltarune with the contradiction between apartment kid’s “~does it hurt to be made of blood” and susie’s “~everyone bleeds” but like. usually i’d be saying yeah whatever, weird monster biology, it’s fine and hand-wavy because they’re made of magic right?

oh, except they’re not. not in deltarune.

toriel cooks not with fire magic, but with normal mechanical means, as shown by the differing description of her stovetop between games. most significantly, noelle talks about how she wishes the light world were like the dark world, where “~everything can be healed with a little spell” when considering which world she prefers, and yeeah?? clearly the overworld doesn’t have magic???

so what in the great dog’s name are they made of in deltarune??? how do they function??? they obviously didn’t just change to be organic judging by apartment kid and the very existence of sans. how does a skeleton walk and talk without magic?? if they do have magic/are made of magic, why can’t they use it??? like if they could heal like they can in undertale rudy noelle wouldn’t bring up magic healing as a wistful implied solution, seeing as it didn’t save him in undertale (judging by asgore’s old alarm clock dialogue, paired with xbox sans bringing up the “antlered girl” showing that it wasn’t just asgore outliving him due to immortality since noelle is apparently still around).

and also darkners don’t have souls?? or are human-level souls the standard for monsters now and darkners have monster-like souls?? queen seems to think all lighteners have determination (speech about the knight), is that true and monsters just have way less or do they have humanlike souls in deltarune?? if so, why is kris’s soul the one that always seals the fountain? (if not i’m assuming it’s that human souls can persist outside the body EVEN after death (waterfall history) implying before death is also a possibility so susie can’t just eject her soul like that lol)

why are monsters able to use spells and bullets in the dark world but kris only has acts??? both monsters and darkners can use magic in the dark world, but not kris. ugh my head hurts

honestly i’ve had a sort of crack theory in my head for a while that monsters are descended from darkners, which is why they can use magic, but obviously that makes no sense for like every reason. but dude. still won’t leave my head

like, what’s most significant is this change was made at all. they could’ve still been chilling, baking fiery pies and intimidating fellow students with axe-bullets. although toby did say in the 6th anniversary stream he was originally considering making everyone human but didn’t for multiple reasons (i forget his exact wording), so maybe this is all just a holdover from that in an effort to make deltarune’s light world boring/make the dark world more fantasy-like in contrast

yeah i’m probably just over-analyzing but what’s new

[quiteshocking]

mollytheocto said: Also I don’t think many people talk abt this cause some people probably just, forgot? I sure think of it a lot (as I do a lot of research and stuff on Susie), but from looking at almost, every piece of Snowgrave fanart, nobody seems to remember monsters don’t bleed

📷mollytheocto said: I’m p sure monsters wouldn’t have human level souls, they don’t have blood or bones in Deltarune so there still ain’t enough physical matter in monsters to support human determination levels normally. Also I bet monsters are still made of magic, but I guess it’s just, innate? when not in a darkworld, cause humans (not made of magic) can’t learn magic in the Dark World, but Monsters (Who are) can

(replies to this post: https://quiteshocking.tumblr.com/post/673393086597070848/ok-so-is-no-one-gonna-talk-about-how-weird)

Monsters might, and probably do bleed! As judging by these (look at Toriel's mouth):

(Yeah, not including Sans here cause those skeletons are the opposite of normal. >_>)

Just, probably not blood, judging by apartment kid. Who knows, man. Hurts my feeble little brain.

About the innate magic thing, though-- yeah, that makes a lot of sense! Still kinda weird, though, and makes me wonder why magic is a trait they share with darkners. I can't think of a single thing darkners seem to have in common with humans to balance it out, other than maybe having blood judging by Lancer's bucket of blood thing (and the unused Snowgrave death animation showing enemies dissolving in red so.. blood?? maybe). (And unless Kris being controlled by an outside force is a universal thing for humans in Deltarune, paralleling darkners' purpose to serve-- but that's a deep rabbit hole with zero evidence, haha.) Loops back to my crack theory of monsters being descended from darkners somehow, but again, crack theory.

And honestly, the moment I start thinking about who can and can't use magic, my head starts hurting from the seven human magicians in Undertale all over again. In Deltarune, though, I guess being actually mostly made of it might make all the difference, huh?

[quiteshocking]

Like remember the undertale merch has plushies that turns out to have monster soul cores in them? No lightener merch means we’re unable to find out what’s up with the souls of the lightener characters

An interesting point I never noticed before now, actually!

Do keep in mind that nothing in merch is necessarily canon:

But yeah, the avoidance of plushies for lightners might be deliberate avoidance of spoilers... I'd say this seems very, very interesting. 👀

[quiteshocking]

[ID: Parody of Drake meme using Papyrus, refusing "Sans suffers and needs comfort from Papyrus (but might not get it)" and satisfied with "Papyrus suffers and needs comfort from literally anyone (but might not get it)". End ID]

summary of my ut angst fic tastes

seems the original artist @marci-betty deleted their blog sooo idk how to source properly :/

[quiteshocking]

you ever just wanna feverishly post about how much u love a character but there aren’t any words in the universe to properly convey just how overwhelmed with joy u get every time u see him an d u j ust w ant to s c r e a m  everyone has to    l  o  o  k    a  t    h  i  m 

[quiteshocking]

Another thing about how monsters being weird is what up with the ghost monsters: Naptsablook is only one who didn’t got absorbed by Flowey at the true pacifist end since they apparently just close the curtains when they saw what’s happening at their window and somehow managed to avoided Flowey absorbing all souls at underground, Mettaton is weirdly absent in one of ending cutscenes despite appearing beforehand to tell Undyne and Alphys to kiss already and he’s not one of the lost souls despite being one of the bosses since Alphys’s the one with yellow soul mode in the lost souls sequence instead

Also Mad Dummy did refer the mew mew doll as like a “vessel” for them to use which the only other time something is referred as a vessel is of course the discarded vessel that was meant for red soul and Mettaton even has an attack where he sends out his own soul to move across the screen almost like how Frisk has the red soul move around on the screen too

Oh, yeah, the ghosts are absolutely weird. If I ever get around to that monsters & magic analysis, ghosts will definitely have their own section, or maybe even an extra post. They're incorporeal, need to find and bond to a vessel to be able to be killed by physical attacks, apparently can just ignore getting absorbed by an all-powerful being, have special ghosts-only foods and drinks-- there are even sort of prejudices against them! Multiple monsters call them spooky! (Papyrus phone call in Napstablook’s house, monster outside ghost house in Deltarune) It's almost no wonder Mettaton left his ghostly life behind and covers it up best he can.

(5th Anniversary Alarm Clock Winter Dialogue - Mettaton)

On the case of Mettaton and the end of the true pacifist route, though, I think he’s just there for the gag, mostly. I think the reason he doesn’t appear as a lost soul is because we don’t really befriend him like we befriend the others-- he isn’t waiting for you when you wake up after the Asriel fight, he went back to Napstablook. He doesn’t bond with or date you, he exposes Alphys then peaces out while he gets repaired. So he’s just not as central a character as Alphys, despite being one of the game bosses. I assume the Mettaton-battle stuff happened with her in her lost soul fight because she’s the one who made Mettaton and installed the button on your phone that turns you yellow.

Oh, and that’s not Mettaton’s soul that he pops out-- that’s his core, as stated by his CHECK, and demonstrated the lack of an extra right-side-up heart alongside the human souls when Asriel breaks the barrier, since Mettaton got absorbed too. (No idea why Napstablook could just... politely refuse to be absorbed, though. Considering Mad Dummy seems to have been absorbed like the others and I don’t think she bonded to the dummy by the end of true pacifist on PC, it doesn’t seem to just be their incorporeal state protecting them.)

On vessels... it’s a ghost thing, and honestly I can’t be sure if the parallel was intentional or just a consequence of the plot overlapping with common ghost lore. Though, once an Undertale ghost has properly fused with their body, it’s less of a “vessel” they’re possessing for them like in typical non-utdr ghost stories and more of their final, true body, like any other monster’s (at least, that’s how I’ve understood it based on this and this). I don’t think utdr ghosts can possess living things like the red soul does Kris, or whatever the heck is going on there. Too little is known about the hows and whys of the entire intro of Deltarune for now.

Actually, it’s sort of weird that in Deltarune, none of the ghosts seem to be seeking out bodies to bond with. Napstablook seemed to be the exception in Undertale, but now they’re all just hiding out in their house, presumably as ghostly as ever. Perhaps it’s more difficult to find suitable bodies when they can’t be built with magic, or maybe they can’t bond at all, since monsters seemingly can’t use magic in the light world. Ghost-Mettaton (presumably) drew up that Mettaton-NEO-like body that Spamton snatches, but it’s hard to tell if that was in the image of an achievable dream body or an unachievable ideal. 

So very strange. Not sure for now about the vessels and magic rules in Deltarune, especially combining it with the weirdness of the ghosts. Hopefully I can organize my thoughts properly to cover how I think ghosts probably work in Undertale eventually, but as for Deltarune... as always, we’ll just have to wait and see whether we'll find out more.

[quiteshocking]

Also I like to call attention of how it’s vague of what is exactly the difference between human and monster souls in the deltarune: The only time Kris’s red soul is referred as a human soul is in the menu that is only available to the player to see and how Spamton identify Kris as a lightener for having a soul but he don’t specify that it’s a human soul

Yeah, exactly! There doesn't seem to be any real notable difference between humans and monsters in Deltarune- outside of stuff for gags. Queen says all lightners, humans and monsters alike, possess determination/will-- but to be fair, this was probably the case in Undertale as well, judging by Undyne. To me, it seems monsters just tend to have a drop in the bucket compared to a human's ocean-- like with soul power (which might be the same thing and I'm making it convoluted haha).

It might just not be worth mentioning in a narrative about people who have and therefore can utilize determination interacting with people that have absolutely no access to that ability. After all, even just a drop of water can be enough change dirt to mud. Simply having the ability, no matter how small, utterly dwarfs not having it.

There's so little known right now about Kris in particular, though, that it's hard to talk about why Spamton targeted them specifically- was it because human souls last after death and can therefore be absorbed, or because of their camaraderie in both being puppets for a greater force? How does Spamton know about either of those things? Everything revolving around Kris's soul, and unfortunately all human souls in general since Kris is the only human in Hometown, are a big ol' mystery in Deltarune.

For now. We'll learn more as more chapters come out, I'm sure. :>

[quiteshocking]

Plus the ut/dr fandom is good at finding anything interesting like how snowgrave route was just found in like a week after deltarune chapter 2’s first release or there’s already videos of Spamton Neo fight being beaten as well

Yup, we've got quite a few diggers about.

Honestly, I wish snowgrave had been found later-- can you imagine all the buildup of weird seemingly unused files and odd implications, before the utter shock when someone finally uncovers it all? Man.