#pyrrha and penny were like 'our deaths were so tragic [>:( and :( respectively]'

[zymstarz]

RWBY V9 E8 !?!??!??!?!?? OH MY GOD

[aspoonofsugar]

Jaune: Zero to Hero

Pyrrha: It's not about why; it's about knowing. Understanding dark and light helps us manifest our Aura. Everyone has some of both.

Knowledge, Creation and Destruction all lead up to Aura. This is just another way to say that they lead up to individuality, which is something Grimms lack:

Pyrrha: They are creatures of Grimm, the manifestation of anonymity.

Individuality is conveyed through Choice. This is why Choice is the most important and final gift. It is symbolic of self-actualization, which is what our characters are pursuing in their coming of age story.

Jaune’s personal arc comments the group’s collective journey and marks each stage very clearly.

In which way does it happen? And what do these stages mean for Jaune’s growth as an individual?

THE IGNORANT WARRIOR

Pyrrha: Jaune, do you... know what Aura is?

Jaune: Psch! Of course I do! Do you know what Aura is?

Jaune is introduced as inexperienced and ignorant. He lacks combat experience and knows nothing about key concepts like Aura, Landing Strategy or Semblances.

His journey starts because Pyrrha shares her knowledge with him:

She awakens his aura, his very soul and later on trains him, so she helps his body get stronger:

In other words, Pyrrha is the one who puts Jaune on the right path to become a true “hero” and a “warrior”.

This is Jaune’s objective since the beginning, but he initially pursues it in the wrong way:

Jaune: I don't want help! I don't want to be the damsel in distress! I want to be the hero!

He is fixated on an idea of hero which is outdated and has its root in toxic masculinity:

Jaune: Cause this is always what I've wanted to be! My father, my grandfather, and his father before him were all warriors! They were all heroes! I wanted to be one, too. I was just never good enough.

This is why symbolically Jaune wants to be like his male ancestors. He wants to grow into “a real man”:

Cardin: Let's see how much of a man you really are...

And this is conveyed also through his Weapon:

Jaune: It's a hand-me-down. My great-great-grandfather used it to fight in the war.

Jaune did not forge his own Weapon, but he inherited it. Crocea Mors initially represents the legacy he wants to live up to. However, this legacy, instead of driving him, slows him down because he can’t grow until he remains in his ancestors’ shadow. Jaune needs to develop his own individuality instead.

In order to do so, he needs to grow not only as a figther, but as a person too.

As a matter of fact, Jaune’s ignorance is not only limited to the world he has stepped into, but also to the people around him:

Jaune: That's easy for you to say. You've probably got guys clamoring over each other just to ask you out.

Pyrrha: You'd be surprised.

He is so self-focused that he does not notice others’ feelings and hurts them unintentionally.

However, Pyrrha teaches him once again:

Pyrrha:Tell her exactly what you said. No ridiculous schemes, no pick-up lines. Just... be honest.

 It is thanks to her that Jaune manages to become a better man:

He is even able to call Neptune out the way Pyrrha did with him:

Jaune: Then just go talk to her. No pickup lines, no suave moves, just be yourself. I've heard that's the way to go.

And as a result, even Jaune’s relationship with Weiss gets better:

Weiss: You said you were embarrassed at first. What made you come talk to me?

Neptune: You're looking at him.  You got some good friends looking out for ya.

Because the girl realizes Jaune is not only after her money or her romantic attention:

Weiss: All my life, boys have only cared about the perks of my last name.

But wants to genuinely be a good friend to her.

In short, Jaune starts the story as immature both as a fighter and as a person to the point that he is considered unfit and annoying by other characters:

Glynda: I don't care what his transcripts say. That Jaune fellow is not ready for this level of combat.

However, thanks to Pyrrha, he is given the chance to mature.

Not only that, but while other characters see a weakness and a nuisance in Jaune’s ignorance and inexperience, Pyrrha sees it as a possibility:

Weiss: Jaune, is it? Do you have any idea who you're talking to?

Jaune: Not in the slightest, snow angel.

Weiss: This is Pyrrha.

It is specifically because Jaune is new to Pyrrha’s world that he is free from bias:

Pyrrha:  That's what I like about you. When we met, you didn't even know my name. You treated me just like anyone else. And thanks to you, I've made friendships that will last a lifetime. I guess, you're the kind of guy I wish I was here with. Someone who just saw me for me.

This is why Pyrrha feels she can forge a genuine bond with Jaune. What is more, the girl has faith in his potential:

Pyrrha: It's all right. I used my Aura to unlock yours, but the energy that protects you now is your own. You have a lot of it.

She sees in him what others do not and helps him develop both as a man and as a warrior.

This is well highlighted by the metal motif the two characters share.

As @hamliet explains here Rwby has several characters linked to the seven metals of alchemy.

The goal of alchemy is to create gold thanks to a process of refiniment that purifies the metal and has it go through several transformations. 

The seven metals are nothing, but a scale that goes from the heaviest and most raw metal (lead) to the most purified (gold) passing through the others (tin, iron, copper, mercury, silver).

For a story, it simply means that a character goes through a process of change that leads to self-actualization.

In Rwby this idea is conveyed through specific characters embodying a metal (Ironwood, Penny, Mercury) or even thanks to metal motifs commenting a specific part of a character arc.

For example, Yang is associated with gold:

I am the golden one Who burns just like the sun

But Adam takes her arm away and has her regress in the scale of metals to iron. This regression is not simply physical, but psychological as well:

However, Yang re-affirms herself and moves forward. The first step of this process is to symbolically make her new arm “gold” again:

When it comes to Jaune, I think that he may be the character associated with lead aka the “prima materia” that needs to be molded into gold. Even if this is not true, metal is at least definately still a motif in his arc, as it is in Pyrrha’s. This is why both characters wear metal armors, differently from others.

Pyrrha is already close to her self-actualization and she reaches it in the climax of the Vale arc, where she completes her (tragic) arc and dies a Maiden.

This is why her armor is gold, while Jaune’s is white and gray. Pyrrha is at the top of the metal scale and close to the end of her journey, while Jaune is respectively at the very bottom and at the very beginning.

He is the embodyment of the prima materia that has potential for greatness, but only if he is rightly guided and if he himself works hard.

Pyrrha takes over herself the duty to help Jaune mold himself.

This is underlined also by Pyrrha’s semblance:

Pyrrha: Well, Ruby has her speed, you have your glyphs. My Semblance is polarity.

Pyrrha can control and bend metals and she shows her power for the first time when she helps Jaune against the Ursa, so that he can overcome his self-issues.

So, Jaune starts the story as the lead and is going through a path of self-refinement which will lead him to become gold, so more similar to Pyrrha herself.

Pyrrha offers him the basic knowledge to start this journey, but unluckily leaves him too soon and now Jaune has to move forward on his own.

THE CREATIVE AVENGER

Pyrrha: I want you to know that I'm just happy to be a part of your life. I'll always be here for you, Jaune.

Even after Pyrrha’s death, this stays true:

Blacksmith: That was some fine metal you brought me. Accents the white nicely. Where'd you get it from?

Pyrrha has become a part of Jaune.

This is a recurring motif in Rwby:

Penny: I won’t be gone, I’ll be part of you.

It is the idea that grieving is a process that leads to acceptance, but also to integration with a lost one. It is a way to have the deceased keep on living through the survivors.

In Jaune and Pyrrha’s case, this is conveyed through Pyrrha’s metal being used to enrich Jaune’s Weapon.

As stated by Ruby:

Ruby: Just weapons? They're an extension of ourselves! They're a part of us! Oh, they're so cool.

Weapons are symbolic of the self, just like Semblances.

What is more, Weapons and Semblances are also a declination of the dychotomy of body and soul, presented by the series.

Weapons are wielded by bodies, while Semblances are a materialization of the soul.

In other words, Pyrrha’s gold becoming a part of Jaune’s Weapon is symbolic of Jaune’s first step in a painful process that will lead him to overcome his partner’s death and to inherit Pyrrha’s legacy.

Jaune must keep on learning from Pyrrha and become more like her. As noted by @hamliet​, this is symbolized also by Jaune’s design aquiring more golden details as he goes on in his journey:

Jaune: Guess I was going to grow out of it eventually.

Ren: A sign of progress.

Jaune: Progress.

That said, grieving is not easy and Jaune must struggle with much pain and negative feelings.

This is why the changes he makes to Crocea Mors are finalized to increase its attack power:

It is because Jaune feels anger over Pyrrha’s death and wants revenge.

In the Battle of Haven he gives in to his fury and tries to kill Cinder. He is trying to superficially imitate Pyrrha’s sacrifice:

Jaune: If I die buying them time, then it's worth it. They're the ones that matter.

However, he is not doing it out of bravery or necessity, but out of recklessness and self-hate. This is why his actions lead to this:

Once again, Jaune risks to lose another loved one:

Jaune: No, no, no, no, not again! Weiss, c'mon, please!!

However, this time he is able to save Weiss thanks to his Semblance:

Jaune: My Semblance?

Nora: How else do you think you're healing her, dummy?

Jaune gives up on using his Weapon to fight and chooses to use his Semblance to cure. He chooses soul over body and Creation over Destruction.

At the same time, Jaune’s activation of his Semblance is meaningful on two levels:

Jaune: No. I don't think I'm healing her. Our Aura heals our bodies. It feels... it feels more like I'm using my Aura to amplify hers!

Nora: Wait, aren't you worried about running out?

Jaune: Pyrrha once told me I've got a lot of it. I still believe her.

First of all, Jaune’s Semblance is rooted in the idea that people heal themselves. His power is not to cure others, but to amplify others’ auras, so that they can become stronger and can heal. It is about bringing out the best in others. It is a power fit for a leader, but also an ability symbolic of Jaune’s own process of healing. He can heal himself through helping others to heal.

Secondly, Jaune’s Semblance is in itself a nod to Pyrrha. Pyrrha used her own aura to awake his and Aura Amp is simply an evolution of this idea. It is not about activating others’ auras, but it is a power that lets Jaune share his. It also makes good use of something Pyrrha noticed immediately aka Jaune’s huge quantity of aura.

In other words, Jaune ends up acting like Pyrrha in the Battle of Haven, but not because he fights Cinder, but because he shares his gift with others, just like Pyrrha did with hers.

Pyrrha is a part of Jaune both in body (Crocea Mors) and soul (Aura Amp), but Jaune must still truly understand what this means.

He makes progress in Lost:

Red-Haired Woman: She understood that she had a responsibility... to try. I don't think she would regret her choice, because a Huntress would understand that there really wasn't a choice to make. And a Huntress is what she always wanted to be.

This is the essence of Pyrrha’s sacrifice. Jaune comes to understand it and chooses to make a similar choice together with his team:

Jaune: I think... I think she knew she wasn't going to win. That she might not come out alive. But... she also knew she was the only one that could try.

Ren: So she did.

Nora: Maybe we should too.

Jaune: Yeah, we should.

In this way, it will be as if Pyrrha were fighting together with them:

Nora: Pyrrha may not be by our side anymore, but we can fight like she is.

Jaune: And in a way... she will be.

Jaune tries to overcome his anger and his sadness for Pyrrha’s death in order to keep fighting like she did.

So, once again he chooses this:

Ruby: I wanted to protect my friends.

Maria: Precisely! It is the desire to preserve life which fuels the light inside you. And to make no mistake, it is light. Preservation is an extension of creation, or, at the very least, an enemy of destruction. The Creatures of Grimm were made by the God of Darkness, but your light comes from his brother.

He chooses to protect life and this is the essence of Creation.

Once he confirms this choice, he is free to explore Creation’s potential and he does so in the land of Creation itself, Atlas.

He strengthens his shield instead of his sword:

And he trains his Semblance:

Oscar: Nice, your recovery is getting faster.

This all leads him to become stronger psychologically:

Ren: Him on the other hand... There's no fear at all. I can see it, he believes we're going to get this done.

That said, Jaune starts meeting limits to his new found strength rooted in Creation:

Jaune: Ah, sorry. No matter how much I boost you, they won’t go away.

Jaune: Did... I stop the virus?

Penny: No. It’s still there.

Jaune’s way to move forward is to heal himself through healing others. Still, what to do when this is not possible?

THE DESTRUCTIVE HEALER

Penny: No… there’s not enough time to heal me…

Penny: But there is something you can do…

What happens in Atlas is an inversion of Haven.

Penny pushes Jaune’s Semblance away and touches Crocea Mors.

Jaune is asked to give up on healing her and to speed up her death instead. He is asked to choose his Weapon (body) over his Semblance (soul) and Destruction over Creation.

This marks the characters entering the Destruction phase:

Leaving Creation (Penny) behind.

For Jaune, this means that his own self image that he has worked so much to build and to make his own:

And that has been enriched in Anima thanks to Pyrrha...is shattered:

At the same time, he is once again put in a similar spot as Pyrrha:

They both become unwilling agents of Penny’s death because of Cinder (and Emerald and Mercury in the first case):

Pyrrha: Ruby, I... I'm so sorry.

Ruby: Me too. But it wasn't your fault.

Jaune: She's right. Whoever was on that microphone... they're the ones that did this. And we have to make sure they don't take anyone else.

So Jaune’s journey to integrate with Pyrrha, to understand her and her struggle continues.

What now?

It is too soon to say because we have yet to properly start our journey through Destruction and what it is about.

That said, there are two things that are worth highlighting. The first is a motif Rwby is following, while the second is a general theme found in many stories.

1) As @hamliet​ has stated in many metas and as I have written here, Rwby is an alchemical story. Alchemical stories are usually marked by three important deaths. Each death is symbolically linked to a color. They are usually black, white and red. However, sometimes there can be yellow instead of the white or the red. This is the case here, where a resonant death is the yellow death aka Penny’s.

It is a death that happens while the characters are surrounded by yellow:

And it happens through a weapon called “Yellow Death” (Crocea Mors’s meaning). So, it is really not subtle. Penny’s death is meant to mark an important passage for our protagonists, just like Pyrrha’s one (the black death).

2) It is common in stories that deal with healers to explore the concept of death as well.

The basic idea is that a healer is a person meant to cure. That said, they will meet people impossible to cure and that will die on their watch. This is an unescapable truth a true healer must live with.

Let’s highlight this theme is found in works very different for genre and culture.

Let’s have two examples.

Scrubs aka an American comedy about doctors deals with this theme multiple times. In many episodes the characters must simply accept they can’t save a life, but must still not lose hope and keep on living themselves.

Yosano from the manga BSD says so:

Her backstory explores the link bewteen life and death further since it is shown that a power that cures fatal wounds can be used to cheapen life itself:

It is too soon to say if Rwby will explore a similar theme, but the fact that Jaune, (the healer) is the one that has to speed up Penny’s death might be a very powerful and poignant choice. This is true especially because Rwby does not refuse Destruction (and so does not refuse death), but presents it as a principle equal to Creation (so as a part of life).

THE CHOOSING HERO

Jaune’s arc is about living Pyrrha’s death over and over again with different scenarios and outcomes. This happens so that in the end he can finally overcome it.

So far, it has happened three times and each time has been in the climax of an important battle.

The Battle of Beacon has him witness powerlessly to Pyrrha’s death (lack of knowledge and passivity).

The Battle of Haven has him saving Weiss (creation).

The Battle of Atlas has him killing Penny (destruction).

What is more, every time Jaune becomes more proactive and conscious of what he is doing.

In Beacon he has no idea of what is happening. He works with little information and things happen to him without him being able to do anything.

In Haven his actions lead to Weiss being in danger, but he manages to save her. That said, he does not do it consciously. He unlocks his Semblance because of emotional stress. It is an unconscious choice and not a conscious one.

In Atlas he makes a specific conscious choice, but it is a choice that is forced on him because of external circumstances. It is also a choice that is meant to challenge and temporally break him.

In other words, he is slowly and painfully approaching Choice aka self-actualization. Right now, he has to face the consequences of Penny’s death, but this will probably lead him to finally enter the Choice stage and to complete his arc by becoming a “hero” aka gold (probably).

At the same time, this final choice will also be about healing and overcoming grief. It will be the final integration with Pyrrha and him being able to honor her legacy.

After all, we have been told from the beginning what Pyrrha’s fate would have been. We’ve just failed to notice:

Pyrrha: For it is in passing that we achieve immortality. Through this, we become a paragon of virtue and glory to rise above all, infinite in distance and unbound by death. I release your soul, and by my shoulder protect thee.

June and Pyrrha’s bond is eternal and she is meant to be the key character in Jaune’s arc. It is only through confronting and finally overcoming her loss that Jaune can finally self actualize and become the person Pyrrha has always known he could be. Pyrrha will symbolically be with him in this struggle. Her memory will protect and inspire him. 

[petracore101]

Don't you think the fallout from this finale is just like the response to vol.3? If you stayed after that why are you leaving now?

Honestly? No, I don’t really think the two responses are remotely the same. Nor were the emotional cores of the finales themselves.

(warning that this does get pretty critical, so.. yknow... dead dove, don’t eat.)

Don’t get me wrong, V3’s finale hurt. Even though a good chunk of the fandom saw the foreshadow-y writing on the wall, it still hurt. Our heroes failed, Beacon fell, Penny and Pyrrha died, and it was painful and tragic and heartbreaking. Especially coming after what was (for a lot of the fandom) a very difficult year. People took it hard, there was a lot of pain, and yeah, a fair bit of anger.

But there was nothing about the V3 finale that was unnecessary, from a writing perspective. The terrible things were the building blocks upon which the story could build- they lay the foundations for the arcs our characters needed to go through. And painful as they were, those moments were all treated with the utmost gravity and care within the narrative. Penny’s death in V3 was horrible, and that horror was reflected in the reactions of the crowd, of her friends, of Ruby. Yang’s maiming was brutal, and that brutality was reflected in the sudden style switch of the shot itself, in Blake’s desperate reaction, and in the response of her team when they reunited. Pyrrha’s death was tragic, and that tragedy was reflected in the buildup to her choice, in the efforts of her friends to save her, in the quiet sadness of her death, and in Ruby’s sorrow when she arrived too late. And in each case, we, the audience, were given time and attention within the narrative to come to terms with it. The lead up to the fall provided ample hints and foreshadowing. The groundwork was all there- we watched it unfold, saw the disaster coming before it struck. Simply rewatching the first 3 volumes makes it clear, this is where things were always headed. The tragedy was not simply that these things happened, but that they may have been prevented, if only our heroes had known some small piece of what we knew. Had seen what we had seen, as it was playing out. But they didn’t, so for them, it was all inevitable. Penny would always go cheerily into battle against an opponent who could unknowingly rip her to shreds. Yang would always launch herself at any danger to save Blake. Pyrrha would always give everything she had to protect those she loved. Even so, those moments were given such weight by the narrative. The pain of the characters and the audience was treated with care and respect, the scenes given time and a sorrowful focus as the truth of them sunk in. So while watching it play out was heartbreaking, it always made sense, always felt compelling. The characters did all they could with the knowledge they had, they just didn’t have the knowledge they needed. And even so, there was still hope. There was still light. There was still a chance for a better day.

And even while the fandom mourned, the overall response reflected those truths. We were heartbroken, but the focus was on coming to terms with the tragedy, not justifying how it was executed. But now? The conflict, the anger, the pain and frustration now? That’s not just coming from people trying to come to terms with Atlas’s fall or Penny’s death or RWBY’s plunge into the void... It’s coming from people upset with how they chose to do these things. Making Vine (who we have had maybe 1-2min worth of speaking lines from) blow himself up to save his teammates was tone deaf and lacked emotional depth, particularly after a series of events that relied on Harriet wanting to bomb a city of civilian refugees for reasons that were shakily developed at best. Turning Penny “human” just to kill her as bloodily as possible was unnecessary and cruel. And having her successfully commit suicide after a full volume of near-constant suicidal comments was just atrocious, no matter what warnings they put ahead of the ep. Having each member of RWB/Y fall (to their “deaths”, from the perspective of those still standing) after barely even landing hits on their opponents, then quickly moving on without pause was jarring and felt senseless. Lingering on Mantle and Atlas being utterly demolished but not showing any reaction from any of its former residents was callous and devoid of any emotional stakes. It leaves us with no hope, no depth, no stakes. Just shock, frustration, pain, confusion.

I liked V3 because the tragedy, the pain, it meant something. It made sense why things played out as they did, and that enhanced the tragedy of it all. But I did not like V7 or V8, because the plot points are not written to be meaningful, they are written to be painful for the sake of being painful. There’s no emotional depth to any of it, no time given to exploring the nuance of what it does to the characters involved, or narrative weight given to their response or that of the audience. The finale especially feels, to me, incredibly superficial. It is dark for the sake of darkness, like it resorts for shocking the audience as a cheap way to elicit an emotional response. And I have no interest in watching the characters I love be reduced to that kind of story. I’m not quitting the show because bad things happened. I’m out because I’m tired of incredibly serious things being treated so callously.

It’s fine if you disagree, it’s fine if you liked it, I’m not trying to ruin the show for anyone. If you continue to watch, I hope it continues to be what you’re looking for. But please do not act like those who are upset by this are simply angry it didn’t go their way. You do not have to agree with the criticisms or even understand where people are coming from. Just be kind.

[ozcarpin]

Abuse Double Standards in RWBY

Sit with me for a moment and look at these two images. One depicts a 14 year old boy being punched in the face by a grown adult man and the other is an 18 year old girl being slapped in the face by another grown adult man. 

The difference? One is framed in a serious manner, the camera panning away so we see the action as if from afar, on an angle, highlighting just how small Weiss is in comparison to her Father. Showing us the pain on her face. Making it expressly clear just how horrible the situation is. The other? A close up of Oscar’s face which is comically contorting. Speed lines indicate the force of the punch bringing to mind vintage comic strips and campy violence. Its a joke. This is supposed to be entertaining. We’re supposed to look at this image and feel amusement and nostalgia for villains getting their cummuppence. 

We’re expected to look at Weiss getting slapped and feel disgust and horror. 

We’re expected to look at Oscar getting punched (regardless of Oz’s presence its Oscar’s face and body we’re watching) and snicker. 

Could you imagine if the tone of these two violent actions were reversed? If, when Jacques went in to slap Weiss, the camera ZOOMED IN on her face, the frames slowing down so we can comically watch her eyes bulge as her skin ripples from the force of the slap like some Things but Very Slowly skit? I wonder how many apologies RT would need to make before anyone decided to continue watching their show again. 

The thing is, RT didn’t need to apologize for turning the violence against Oz/car into a joke. They didn’t need to apologize for showing Oz on his knees crying and being shown neither a shred of dignity or compassion. People defended their choices to do these things, defended Qrow and the kids where Jacques was (rightly) thrown in the trash bin. 

In fact, unlike the other characters of the show (notably the 90% female cast) RT seems to enjoy showing us all the nitty grittys when it comes to Oscar’s abuse. 

They make sure that when he’s being hurt, we see everything.

Everyone else has been fighting Grimm all night but Oscar is the one we see beat up and tired. 

Even when he’s landing an attack on an enemy, RT just couldn’t resist making Oscar punch himself in the face. Zoomed in of course. 

The closest that we really get to showing the close-up suffering and injury of the girls (to my memory) are

1. Pyrrha’s death

2. Weiss’s near-death

3. Penny’s death

RT tends to spare us the gorey details usually when it comes to the female cast being injured. Usually hiding the actual wound, panning away, using shadows or silhouettes to give us the idea of what’s happening without showing us the full suffering of the character, only really showing us it when its something truly tragic or serious. 

For Oscar, its just another Tuesday. 

I’ve mainly focused on Oscar for these comparisons because this fetishization of suffering happens to him the most, but RT also didn’t stray away from Sun getting slapped, and screamed at by Blake (the slap again meant to be a ‘joke’), Ozma being burned alive and James literally skinning his own arm for our viewing pleasure. Not to mention the big amusement of them zooming in and slowing down Marrow nearly having his tail burned by Weiss which was, of course, big funny. I mean, remember the time the show joked about someone nearly cutting Blake’s ears off her head? No?  Weird, its almost like making jokes about the suffering of your characters isn’t funny. 

What I feel it boils down to is a disconnect for the respect afforded to characters of the male gender. The abuse and emotions of the female cast members (Including Salem) always take precedence in being shown in a very serious light. People are expected to sympathize with them and they’re rarely shown in ‘weak’ or ‘pathetic’ situations that the narration doesn’t code tragically. They’re afforded dignity and empowered in their actions and place in the story. Male characters are always made out as weaker than their female counterparts and their emotions and abuse are treated as jokes or ultimately their fault, their suffering as entertainment. If Sun slapped Blake, no one would think it was a joke. If Ruby was being perved on by a bunch of men while working, it wouldn’t be funny (But apparently ‘thirsty mom’s are hilarious). If Yang threw Weiss into a wall, shook and screamed at her, people would care about how Weiss felt after.  

But I guess these things only matter if you’re a girl, huh?