#pro the whole gaang

[starboysbrainrot]

How do you think the Gaang would react if Iroh was forced to face a tribunal for his actions during the war, particularly his actions during the Siege of Ba Sing Se?

that’s a very interesting question, because one of the most out of character writing in atla is how almost all of the gaang acts with Iroh. so let’s just ignore canon to answer your question.

I would like to say that Toph would change her mind about him, but there’s no way that as a noble earth kingdom citizen she didn’t learn about the siege of Ba Sing Se. I think that she just didn’t care, and focused on the fact that he wanted to help them now, and that what he did in the past didn’t matter.

now, even though Aang is the most forgiving one in the group, I’d say that he would definitely acknowledge what he did and at least confront him about it. in The Firebending Masters, he immediately reacts to Zuko saying that Iroh slayed the last dragon. he seemed surprise and maybe kind of disappointed. I think this shows that Aang has some kind of naivety and idealism that clouds his judgement of Iroh, but he isn’t completely blind in regards of what Iroh did.

Sokka would honestly maybe not hate him, but definitely not like him. I kind remember him being especially fond of Iroh in canon anyways, and I don’t think that knowing about his past actions would make that any better.

Katara is a bit more of a tricky one. because yes, she’s an idealist with a big heart and a big ass capacity to forgive the one that hurt her, but she would have a hard time forgiving him, especially because Iroh killed a lot of people. it’s the fact that he’s a killer, and the one that terrorised the city of BSS for 600 days. I honestly do not know if she could get past that. yes she forgave Jet, who nearly drown an entire town. but here’s the thing. 1) nobody was harmed because the town was evacuated (and yes ik that doesn’t change the fact that he wanted to do it but here’s the thing : it didn’t happen. nobody died. and that matters most.) 2) he’s a 16 yo traumatised orphan boy who lost his parents to the FN, something she can empathise with. 3) he actively did everything in his power to change for the better. that’s what makes it possible for Katara to forgive him. same thing for Zuko. yes he attacked them, on multiple occasions, he chased the Avatar around the entire world, he burned down Kyoshi village, and he betrayed her in BSS. but : 1) he didn’t kill anyone 2) he ultimately chose to make his life turn 180 just to help the Avatar, putting his life on the line by betraying the Fire Lord 3) he gave the possibility to Katara to get closure, not once being bitter about her hating him for what he did 4) he’s also 16. with a father that wants him dead, no home to go back to and a broken family.

but Iroh ? he’s old, he did the things he did with pride (hence the letter he wrote to Ursa and the children in Zuko Alone), he was a full grown adult, pampered since birth, with a father that adored him, and yet only the death of his son made him rethink his actions when he was already an old man. I don’t know if Katara would really be able to forgive him given the circumstances. yes she did forgive some cranky old men (Pakku) but the context was different. so, I honestly just don’t know.

now Suki. my girl is so flat in canon that I don’t really know. the Kyoshi warriors are not really active in the war, they try to stay out of it, so they may not even know about the BSS siege. if she knew she would probably be distant, maybe a bit cold. but I also can’t really see her being actively angry at him ?

now about Zuko (don’t know if you count Zuko as a part of the gaang anon) I think that him realising that Iroh is in fact not perfect, that he’s very much flawed and actually did messed up stuff would be kind of a big thing for his redemption. maybe even the beginning of a possible reconciliation between the fire siblings. but the writers are incapable of seeing that Iroh is an absolute asshole to Azula and that he’s kind of a shitty uncle to zuko so, yk, i know it will never happen but i can always dream.

beside the BSS siege, some things that might be interesting to write about in regards of the gaang reaction to Iroh’s past might be :

1) learning about Mongke and his fighters, who killed Jet’s family, and were under Iroh’s command

2) learning about Zuko’s scar and how Iroh was actually there when it happened, and did nothing against it.

3) the gaang interacting with Azula during her healing arc, learning about how Iroh was an absent figure of Azula’s life who pretty much needed his help as much as Zuko (but given the wonderful job he did with zuko idk if that’s the best idea) back then

anyways, I miss book 1 Iroh. peak characterisation.

in conclusion, my biggest problem here is that the show portrayed the gaang being more angry at characters like Jet, Zuko, Azula, Ty Lee, Mai etc who are still children, than the 60 yo warlord. which wouldn’t be a problem if it was to show how naive they are, but it’s not. it’s never even ever talked about.

[bluespiritshonour]

Another thing I've been muling over: a complain I've seen about Maiko is that she keeps him from going on the right path—and... I agree.

For Mai, Zuko's well-being is her sole concern and the rest of the world could crash and burn and that's... Okay?

Realistically speaking, your support system should NOT be one person. One thing I love about ATLA is that (despite romance writing not being one of it's strong points) the lack of ships that follow the tropes.

Kataang is not an archetype. Neither is Sukka or Maiko.

Having your support system be just your romantic partner isn't healthy (for them or for you) or realistic. But most romances do that and until I watched ATLA it didn't occurred to me that that's not a good thing.

ATLA and Maiko are very realistic in that Zuko needs both the Gaang and Mai. He needs the Gaang to hold him accountable for every shitty little thing he did—and he needs Mai there to keep from spiraling and self-destruction.

Zuko and his uncle were de facto conquerors, so they had to do much more to redeem themselves than Mai and Ty Lee (mere soldiers, but NOT innocent) had to.

Zuko had to work hard to earn the Gaang's forgiveness (personal opinion: he should've grovelled more and he should've been called out on his racism against Aang) and Uncle Iroh reconquered Ba Sing Se in the name of it's people.

They both did reparations to the very people they hurt. And their crimes were much more direct and vicious compared to Mai and Ty Lee’s.

As someone not as responsible as them, Mai and Ty Lee's redeeming themselves was at the Boiling Rock.

And well, when Zuko is Firelord right after the war—he would be paying for the crimes of his ancestors. He needs the Gaang there to keep from acting like he did with Katara pre-Southern Raiders (everyone else seems to have forgiven me!) and he needs Mai to keep himself from actually spiralling into self-destruction and undeserved guilt (Sozin's and Ozai's faults aren't his even if he's paying for it and someone needs to remind him that)

So, yeah. He needs them both for different things.

As for Mai, her conflict was that she was never allowed to express herself. And loving Zuko made up for that—she finally stands up for something she believes in (not in the cause, but in Zuko) and Zuko didn't even have to do anything beside exist. He didn't “fix her.”

Although, again I do have the the complain that Mai has to do a lot of emotional labour for him and if you really are gonna shit on Maiko: it's Zuko who needs to step up, not Mai—well, Mai tried to “fix him” and she couldn't!

That's so important to me!—I’m tired of girl fixes boy narrative. And she couldn't fix him because only he could fix himself and Mai herself is used to making the best out of a situation and being selfish/passive/choosing the path of least resistance. She tried to do to Zuko what worked for her (or maybe didn't, considering she was coping)—and well—later when Zuko's Firelord it'll be Mai who keeps him from harming himself.

Zuko needs both to be balanced out.

He needs multiple people to act as support system and that's both healthy and realistic. Mai isn't everything and neither should she be.

I know what the comics did; don't bring them up here. It's not about the comics.

[survivalove]

one day we’ll talk about how extremely xenophobic the atla fandom is in how they justify the original cast’s horrible writing in the (more western 😃) sequel series by demeaning and degrading the cultures that they’re based on

starting with: aang being a bad dad makes sense because he grew up with monks and didn’t have a biological father

how utterly disgusting and weird. but honestly i just feel bad that so many of you have been brainwashed so effectively

meanwhile zuko is, according to the fandom, a good father and that makes sense despite his biological father being abusive for his entire childhood

but watch they will bring up iroh as if aang didn’t have gyatso

watch how they will complain about toph being a cop despite her last canon appearance being a 12 year old just like aang

watch how they will criticize katara and sokka’s (lack of) character development while claim that aang was written perfectly.

[kataraslove]

Do you know anything about where i can find people talking about the fake zk interviews, or how "zutara was originally gonna be endgame" was fake news? conversions haha 😅😅

as it stands, some of the writers on the writing team (joshua hamilton and john o’bryan specifically) wanted zutara. they confirmed this on braving the elements, the atla podcast hosted by dante and janet. one of them mentioned that there was an original pilot that initially had a zutara endgame. i’ve yet to find any evidence of this, and the actual series bible posted on Reddit mentions no ships, so who knows if this was something legitimate or false.

the popular rumour is that aaron ehasz was adamantly pro-zutara and devised a whole season 4 in which they became endgame, in addition to an azula redemption arc. this rumour came from a fake interview from a zutara blog who claimed to be an intern working at nickelodeon. aaron ehasz on video confirmed that the interview was fake, and also stated that he did not personally ship anything in his writing because rooting for a particular ship would lead to contrived plot points. rather, he went with the “natural flow of things” by listening to his characters and their needs. bryan later echoed the same sentiments on the braving the elements podcast, that fandom could ship what they want but ultimately they would make their writing decisions based on the direction of the story and the characters’ wants and needs, whether those decisions ended up finalizing platonic or romantic relationships.

on top of that, aaron ehasz also:

said that the only thing he would change in atla was a composition shot of azula and the gaang in the chase in the same interview that he denied wanting zutara as endgame

loved mai and maiko (him and his ex wife first introduced maiko in zuko alone)

confirmed parallels between kataang and rayllum

expressed his interest in reading kataang-rayllum parallel meta (i can’t find the tweet, but it was an interaction regarding @raayllum’s meta).

requested, alongside mike dimartino, the tale of oma and shu to be created as a way to develop katara and aang’s romantic relationship in the cave of two lovers (as confirmed by the writer joshua hamilton himself)

[loopy777]

Is Zuko a Gary Stu? A lot more people are becoming anti-Zuko especially after the comics. Thoughts?

Well, it depends how we're defining "Gary Stu." I tend to prefer a strict definition for it and "Mary Sue," that of a self-insert wish-fulfillment character. I also don't personally consider it to necessarily be a negative; one of my favorite fictional characters is George Lucas' Flash Gordon Gary Stu, Luke Skywalker.

But the common internet usages for the term typically translates to "character favored by the narrative and/or storyteller(s) to a degree that harms the story." So I'll address both definitions.

I don't think Zuko is any kind of wish-fulfillment character in the AtLA cartoon, nor do I think the narrative shows him any favoritism. In fact, I'd say the story goes out of its way to make things harder for Zuko than the basic character arc demands. It could've had him switch sides at the end of Book Earth, and I don't think there would have been much complaining. Likewise, the story could have had gAang come around to him a lot sooner in Book Fire, rather than spending entire episodes (and in Sokka's case a two-parter) reconciling him with the gAang one-by-one. I think his character arc is improved and given more impact by the desire to cover this extra rocky ground, although I also think 'The Boiling Rock' didn't need to be a two-parter and all of early Book Fire's filler episodes with the gAang should have been relocated to after Zuko's defection so that they'd have the added interest of showcasing the expanded gAang's new dynamic.

Ah, but then we get to the comics. I'm going to assume we're talking about Gene Yang's comics specifically, since Zuko has not appeared substantially in anything written by anyone else. It's easy to harp on these comics' use and treatment of Zuko, but I want to be clear that they're poorly written on pretty much every level. The dialogue is bad. Major plot threads are abandoned without comment. Everyone is mischaracterized. The humor is more juvenile than anything in the cartoon. What stories are told spin their wheels until they get wrapped up in a rush. There's bad, racist, pro-colonialism messages baked into them all. Etc and so on.

And yes, I do think these comics favor Zuko to their detriment and his. Gene Yang has admitted that Zuko is his favorite character in the cast. But even if he hadn't, we can see in 'The Promise' that the presentation has a lopsided preference for Zuko over Aang, the other main character of the story. Zuko is not portrayed as wrong for pressuring Aang to promise to kill him, despite Aang being uncomfortable with it and the whole idea being against Aang's major beliefs; compare that to the cartoon, where Zuko was portrayed as wrong and bullying in his attitude to try to get Aang to kill Ozai. In the matter of the former Fire Nation colonies, Aang and Zuko have opposing approaches, but rather than the story taking the stance that they need to compromise and mix'n'match their ideas, Zuko gets to utter the line, "I was right all along," while Aang has to be lectured by Katara, admit to being wrong, compromise with the Air Acolytes, and break off his relationship with his ghost mentor.

In 'The Search,' Zuko goes on to find his mother and learn her backstory, something that ends up not troubling or challenging him at all. She gives up her new identity to become his doting mother again and Zuko doesn't have a single doubt about it. He gets an adoring little sister in the form of Kiyi, despite her having a real problem with her mother choosing to become Ursa instead of keeping her familiar form. And his questionable treatment of Azula is not addressed; like Aang in 'The Promise,' she's the one who has to compromise (or in this case refuses to compromise).

You can see the pattern here of Zuko's presentation. This is where we can start to question if Zuko is Gene Yang's self-insert, but to do so, we would have to assume a lot of stuff about Gene Yang. For example, he breaks up Zuko's romance with Mai and then starts hinting at something with him and Suki; does that mean Gene Yang wants to date Suki? Then why bring Mai back so prominently in 'Smoke & Shadow' and then both go easy on her mistakes and break her up from Kei Lo at the end? Maybe Gene Yang wants a harem with both Suki and Mai, but if that's the case, then it's pretty odd that he ends his run on the comics with Zuko dating neither.

We could do the same for other aspects of Zuko's presentation (Does Yang want a tiny powerful Firebender as a little sister? Does he think all colonizers are awesome? Does he advocate denying first-amendment rights in times of danger? Is his favorite food to eat at winter time extra-spicy fire noodles?) But we'd probably run into similar questions we can't answer, leaving us to either assume way too much that would likely be wrong or admit that it doesn't matter.

Which brings us back to the much simpler idea of the character being favored beyond what is warranted. That helps with examining 'Smoke & Shadow,' where Zuko is actually portrayed as making some wrong choices for once in all of Yang's run of comics, like ordering his people's homes invaded and trashed on a vague hope that he'll find some information about Azula- but before that, he's somehow enlightened enough to make rainbow fire, and afterward, he solves everything with a quick apology to his people.

Usually, the narratives ignore Zuko's flaws and twist themselves into weird shapes to justify things. It's like Gene Yang started with the intentions of having Zuko make mistakes and grow over the course of the various stories, but then chickens out, so we're left with themes that feel incomplete or outright harmful. Zuko doesn't need to grow beyond his desire to have a Fire Nation elite (and their pet Earth Kingdom spouses and servants) rule over the former colonies forever, he gets to say, "I was right all along." He starts by locking Azula away in a straight-jacket, but then doesn't find a way to reconcile with her and treat her more humanely, because she goes fully homicidal and then runs away so he doesn't need to deal with her. But in 'Smoke & Shadow,' we get one example where, probably because Yang doesn't see it as that bad in the first, Zuko is allowed to temporarily be wrong before returning to a state of grace.

I think Gene Yang is trying to tell good Avatar stories. But, among his (many, many, many) mistakes, I think he's letting his favor for Zuko influence the stories he's trying to tell. He's trying to give his favorite character juicy dramatic material that lets him grow into an even more awesome character- but then he shies away from depicting his favorite in too harsh a light, ruining the whole thing.

The stories don't feel like they're going anywhere with him, despite him being a main character.

So if that fits with your definition of "Gary Stu," then yes, Zuko has become one in the comics. But he didn't start as one in the cartoon, and I don't think Gene Yang writes stories out of a desire for his favorite to marry Suki because Sword Girlfriend > Knife Wife.

Perhaps that's why he never got Maiko back together; he likes Mai too much to make her the one in the wrong, but then that would mean Zuko needs to learn and grow, and that can't be right. ;)

[teashoptiramisu]

hello! this blog seems pretty inactive so im sorry if this is annoying, but i dont know who to ask 💀 do you!! have any fic recs? (I really really wanna see more zuko + gaang found family stuff and also anything with an azula redemption arc would be very cool but I dont know how to find good stuff since im very new to the fanbase so.. hope this is ok! (I am literally always late to fandoms it’s so sad)

also, if there’s any place, like a discord server or tumblr community where I can ask for recs, that would be very helpful to know!! the brainworms must be fed

I haven't been maintaining my queue but I'm around (well, sometimes)! And no worries, if I found asks annoying I would turn them off.

As I said last time, it's been a while since I read a lot of ATLA fic -- but I still have my old favorites! That post also has advice for finding fic recs (particularly geared towards fans of muffinlance but I think it's solid advice in general) -- unfortunately I don't know of any dedicated fic reccing community, just specific people you can follow such as @/captainkirkk and @/royaltealovingkookiness

But yeah look through my bookmarks, look through muffinlance's bookmarks, look through the bookmarks of authors whose fics you like!

Some specific recs:

[my eternal faves are all works by muffinlance and The Dragon-King's Temple -- but you probably already know about those]

The Best Path by EudociaCovert -- I know you said Zuko+gaang but my favorite found family fic is this one, which is Zuko, Jet, and Smellerbee canon divergence from "Zuko Alone". I think it's a little off the beaten path (heh) these days so I wanted to give it a shout.

close your eyes, make a wish by atleastwestoletheshow (Silverwolf329) -- canon universe gaang-bonding-with-zuko-while-fighting-together fic

definitely not suspicious at all in the least by presumenothing (justjoy) -- kinda similar to the above, more of a heist maybe

Big Damn Heroes by Damkianna -- the GAANG in SPACE!! very fun AU, good Zuko content

How It's Done by ryfkah -- the gaang forms a pro-bending team (like in LoK season 1, but you can probably read this even if you haven't seen Legend of Korra)

Tea? by thesometimeswarrior -- Iroh and Azula post-canon, start to an Azula healing arc

and it's my whole heart (weighed and measured) by agentcalliope -- another Azula post-canon fic I found interesting

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

https://www.tumblr.com/caramel-ribbons/720001793861533696/i-just-watched-avatar-for-the-first-time-all-the?source=share

what do you think of this post? i found it kind of.. weird, in the way it talked about her relationship with team avatar compared to her relationship with zuko

It started out okay, turned into a train-wreck REAL fast.

I can understand being annoyed at how people will make fun of something like Katara bringing up her mom a lot, especially if these people don't do that for any other character when they ALL bring up their traumas a lot, but the way it quickly escalated into "Actually, Katara was right in telling her brother he didn't love their mom like she did" was honestly one of the most disgusting things I've read by anyone in this fandom - which is saying a lot.

Also, once again the complete bullshit claims of "The Gaang and Aang in particular never try to be there for Katara, emotionally, like she was for them."

Considering this person mentioned disliking videos that frame the entire show as just Katara being a bitch towards poor, friendzoned nice guy Aang, I would not be surprised if they let this dumb edits drastically affect how they see completely innocent Kataang moments as being something they weren't OR that they had already read Zutara "metas" (aka wildly out of character fanfic) and formed their opinion on these dynamics looooong before they actually watched the show.

People really gotta stop focusing on what the FANDOM does when they are talking about how CHARACTERS behave towards each other. Yes, some fans are sexist and hate Katara for the "crime" of being a female character - that does not mean the Gaang forced her into the role of being their mom/caretaker/therapist.

Sokka is CONSTANTLY trying to be useful the group. Toph learned to open up and clearly enjoyed spending time with Katara, even if it was to do things she did not want to do at first (you TRY dragging Toph to a spa and have people touch her feet after she explicitly said that was the one thing they were not allowed to do. See how fast you get crushed by a rock).

And Aang - oh my God, AANG. That boy was all about trying to make Katara happy from day one. They played together, he offered to go with her to the Northern Water Tribe so she could become a pro-waterbender, would always apologize to her whenever he did something wrong, explicitly told her she gave him hope (mirroring how she had hope the Avatar would save the world), was in complete awe after she literally brought him back to life, fucking blew up a factory with her, and tried to stop her from making a big mistake and sacrificing what was left of her innocence by killing a (admitedly AWFUL) man - yes, Zutarians, NOT letting your friend do something they'll regret IS being a good friend and thinking of what's best for them, sorry not sorry.

THE WHOLE REASON Katara is so emotionally attached to Aang and wants to be there for him whenever he needs anything is because HE ALLOWED HER TO BE A KID AND HAVE FUN AGAIN.

You'd think so called "Katara fans" would be able to understand such a simple concept that she verbally explains to us IN THE FIRST DAMN EPISODE!

Anyone that claims Aang didn't love and support Katara just as much as she did him is either misremembering the show, in deep denial, or just flat out lying to you.

[sokkastyles]

Do you think Iroh is a hypocrite?

Point from: https://www.tumblr.com/innocentimouto/734337927505690624/rosafloera-i-didnt-feel-like-splitting-up-my

Do I think Iroh is a hypocrite for what?

OP doesn't say why they think Iroh is a hypocrite (and in general this person likes to make a hash of the series as a whole so I don't really care what they have to say).

But if we're discussing the topic of redemption, Iroh is actually repeatedly pro-redemption, which probably has a lot to do with how he himself sought redemption. So, no, he is not a hypocrite. He believed Jet could be redeemed and told him his desire to change himself was admirable, and even when Jet attacked him, he didn't condemn him, but only said he was "confused."

Why is Iroh a hypocrite, exactly? Because he didn't throw himself down and confess that he was a firebender when Jet attacked him, putting both himself and Zuko in danger?

Because, again, he tried to protect Zuko from Azula?

Even then, Iroh does actually express a desire to see Azula get peace in the comics once she is no longer a direct danger to anyone (and that belief, shared by Zuko and the gaang, actually allows Azula to put them and others in danger again, because manipulative people love to take advantage of other people's kindness.)

Are you seeing the pattern here?

Iroh has always been pro-redemption, but he's also someone who will stand up and say no to abuse and manipulation, and he is absolutely not a hypocrite for that.

Also, you are right and OP is wrong about redemption as a whole. Anyone can get redemption, but the idea that Azula can't be redeemed because "no one ever offered it to her" is an excuse. And the idea that it explicitly has to be offered is counter to what redemption actually is. Anyone has a chance at it, but that also means they need to put in the effort to take that chance. Nobody is obligated to offer redemption to someone who is violently attacking them, and insisting that it is so actually devalues the gaang's forgiveness of Zuko, because they didn't do it because they had to, and Zuko didn't change simply because they gave him the chance. He took that opportunity for himself and had to put in the effort to even convince them to give him a chance.

There's also a difference, I think, between redemption and help, especially with regards to Azula. And then there's the third thing where she needs to be stopped from violent tyranny by any means necessary, which supercedes any need for her to get redemption or help because at that point other people need to be protected from her. I'm tired of people trying to prioritize the needs of violent people over their victims. That's literally abuser rhetoric and Uncle Iroh is an important character in large part because he calls out that nonsense.

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

Hot Take: Azula's Mental Illness(es) Only Exist to Nerf Her

Azula’s mental breakdown and subsequent fall to (long-term?) madness is one of the most talked about character arcs in ATLA, with much ink spilled analyzing why it happened, what type of mental illness(es) Azula may have, and whether she may be able to rise from the ashes of her shame and humiliation.

However, maybe Azula’s downfall was not meant to be some profound end to a 3-D character that still has people talking about it, even though ATLA last aired almost 15 years ago and her last comics appearance was in 2016.

No, maybe Azula’s mental breakdown and subsequent struggles with mental health only exists to nerf a villain sue whose sympathetic moments come due to wanting to give her an ambiguous mental disorder that nerfs her so that not only are Zuko and Katara able to defeat her, but also to prevent her from being a serious threat to the Gaang post-war. 

For if Azula didn't go crazy during Sozin's Comet, Zuko and Katara would have never gotten to the Fire Nation Royal Palace since she would have had the imperial firebenders and the Dai Li to protect her. And even if they did manage to get to her, she would have never challenged Zuko to an Agni Kai just like she refused Zuko's challenge in S2. 

Meanwhile, in the case where they manage to defeat her, if they had to kill her, Zuko's already shaky legitimacy is gone. And in the case where they manage to capture her, even if Aang de-bends her, she is still a potent symbol for pro-war elements to rally around since she never proved herself too unstable to rule.

Not to mention, Azula’s insanity also allows Bryke to use Azula as an antagonist in future works without having to deal with the obvious question of why doesn't Azula (attempt to) slaughter everyone between her and the throne if Aang doesn't show up and defeat her in the Avatar State.

For in The Search, if Azula was sane, she would have easily escaped the Gaang's custody and used the letter to start a civil war, not even bothering to find Ursa. In Smoke and Shadow, if she was truly sane, she would have slaughtered everyone who opposed her and/or was remotely tied to her downfall before taking the throne again and restarting the Hundred Year War.

Moreover, Azula’s insanity allowed Bryke to avoid having to answer the question of what type of punishment did Ozai's 14 year old second-in command deserve at the end of the war.

For Azula failing into madness gave them an excuse to have Zuko involuntarily psych war her in an asylum in a show of mercy that also conveniently discredits Azula in the eyes of the Fire Nation without staining Zuko and/or Aang’s reputations in- or out-of-universe.

So yeah, Azula’s mental illness is obviously a plot-driven nerf in retrospect, and therefore we should stop trying to ascribe deeper meaning to her downfall. 

“Nice headcanon you got there but canon disagrees with you. First of all, even if Azula didn’t banish the Dai Li and imperial firebenders, it wouldn’t have mattered since they are fodder to likes of Zuko and Katara, with Zuko’s Comet boost essentially canceling out the imperial firebenders’ Comet boost. Second of all, assuming Zuko would have challenged a sane Azula to an Agni Kai, Azula can’t refuse an Agni Kai, let alone one for the throne. Third of all, Azula wasn't strong enough to take either Katara or Zuko 1v1 by the end of the series. And finally, other than when Azula had Zuko at firepoint, there was no other time she could have killed the main characters after the war ended, so the idea she could have slaughtered everyone sans an Avatar State Aang is pure Azula stan wanking at its finest.”

In regards to the first point, the Dai Li are not fodder considering it took just two of them to enable Azula to avoid Aang, Toph, and Sokka as long as she did during the Day of Black Sun, and a whole unit of Dai Li agents plus Zuko and Azula was enough for Aang to decide to let go of Katara to master the Avatar State since he didn’t think him and Katara could defeat them all.

And second of all, since Katara and Zuko are entering the Fire Nation on Appa, they are essentially sitting ducks for a legion of Sozin’s Comet enhanced firebenders, especially since Zuko’s best fire redirection feat didn’t occur till Smoke and Shadow, and even then, he only redirected the fire of four firebenders, and not an entire legion like he would have to in this scenario.

And speaking of imperial firebenders, even if they are still relative fodder to Zuko, the Comet boost makes them superior to Katara if the fire produced by the soldiers who faced Toph in the airship are any indication of what the Sozin’s Comet amped imperial firebenders can do. 

And unlike those soldiers, the imperial firebenders won’t have to hold back for fear of destroying their surroundings since they will be firing into the air or in the Coronation Plaza, assuming Zuko, Katara, and Appa haven’t been burned alive at that point and manage to reach it in the first place.

In regards to the second point, Zuko was a literal traitor at that point just like in S2 when Azula refused his Agni Kai challenge. Besides, if anyone could walk up the Fire Nation Royal Palace and challenge the Fire Lord to an Agni Kai, how would the Fire Lord be able to do anything other than fight since they would be fighting Agni Kai after Agni Kai?

“Um, literally be so strong that no one even dares to challenge them since it's a death sentence? Like why do you think the Fire Lord is considered the apex firebender? For the Kyoshi novels, even if they take place centuries before the events of ATLA, say that even the head mistress of the Royal Fire Academy for Girls has to be the peak firebender at the institution to not lose her position. And Bryke have made comments saying that Ozai had fought in several Agni Kais as a Prince in order to keep his position; hence why no one challenges him to an Agni Kai as Fire Lord.”

So if that was the case ,why doesn't Smoke and Shadow Azula challenge Zuko to an Agni Kai instead of engaging in her 48D plan then? Especially since the TTRPG says she wants the throne again?

Not to mention, ​​Iroh knew how to redirect lightning before Lu Ten's death, yet never challenged Ozai to an Agni Kai even after becoming enlightened, and thus realized the war was wrong, on top of (most likely) seeing his beloved nephew get abused daily.

So, if that line of thought about Agni Kais is true, wouldn't that make Iroh look passive as fuck at best, and a piece of shit at worst, even though Iroh is supposed to be respected and wise good guy after his enlightment?

Anyway, getting back on track, in regards to the third point, if Zuko was strong enough to take on Azula by himself, how come Iroh, one of the wisest characters in ATLA, someone who knows about Zuko’s abilities, and is at times a mouthpiece for the writers, tells Zuko to take someone with him to take down Azula? 

Or how come Zuko only challenges Azula to an Agni Kai after seeing she is in the middle of a mental breakdown? 

Or how come Katara refuses to directly confront Azula and essentially defeats her by tricking her with a trap that she would have seen coming a mile away if she was sane?

It is pretty obvious that Zuko, even after closing the gap thanks to training with the Dragons, is still not Azula’s equal, while Katara, even if she is arguably slightly stronger than Azula, is no match for a sane Sozin’s Comet boosted Azula.

And in regards to the final point, even if you discount when she had Zuko pinned down in crypt, she could have killed the main cast in several different ways. 

For she could have used the fact that no one was aware of the secret tunnels, or that she was in Caldera City, to covertly assassinate Zuko and his allies one by one with the rest of the Fire Warriors. Especially since no one, not even Zuko or Aang, have a reliable counter to their smokebending.

She could have actually helped the New Ozai Society, instead of manipulating Ukano into acting earlier so she could teach Zuko a lesson, and raised a true insurgency. 

She could have kicked Aang with fire when they were chasing after her on the Royal Palace roof-tops instead of just kicking him.

She could have fully charged her lightning so that when she redirected it at Zuko, it would have killed him when he failed to redirect it due to being caught off guard instead of just knocking him off his feet.

She could have slashed Ty Lee with a fire dragger instead of slapping her. 

She could have kicked Mai with fire instead of just kicking her, or more generally, actually attacked Mai to kill her instead of toying with her the whole time when they were in the Garden of Tranquil Souls.

Not to mention the fact that not only has her battle awareness and speed increased, for she dodged a serious Ty Lee trying to chi-block her from her blindside while also casually dodging Mai’s knives, but also she now has quick charge lightning; instant lightning; the ability to wield lightning like a bootleg chidori; the ability to make lightning spheres; the ability to make lightning zaps; lightning redirection; instant area of effect lightning; the ability to control and spilt her lightning stream after she has fired it; concussive lightning; faster fire jets; and, most controversially, the apparent ability to psychically generate and manipulate smoke.

There are other things she could have done, but that point is that if Azula really wanted Zuko and company dead during Smoke and Shadow, they would be dead. 

And even if she was foolish enough to try to attack them head-on, there is a really strong argument that the only person who could stop her is an Avatar State Aang, assuming her encounter with Katara does not take place during a full moon.

So to conclude, maybe there is no deeper reason for Azula’s mental breakdown other than the writers backing themselves into a corner and realizing that the only real way a sane Azula would ever get stopped is by Avatar State Aang. 

That and they did not want to deal with the thorny issue of what punishment a sane Azula would get for her actions taken during the war while also wanting the option to use Azula as ongoing villain without having her rack-up a high body count before she is stopped.

Without her mental breakdown, in regards to the TV show, at best the Final Agni Kai never happens, and at worst, Zuko, Katara, and Appa are all dead. Meanwhile, in regards to the comics, at best Azula leads a bloody insurgency before she is stopped for good, and at worst, the Hundred Year War restarts without anyone able to stand up to her.

So yeah Azula needed to be nerfed, and they ended up doing it with the one thing that could truly stop her: herself.

[lifetimeoftired]

One part of ATLA that I think about more than may be healthy, is Avatar Kyoshi. And like, yeah her life was really cool and she was a badass and yadda yadda, but it's the trial that just, gets me. Everytime.

The Gaang goes through the entire episode coming up with like, all the evidence that she did not murder their extremely good and noble emperor. It's extremely good evidence! Very compelling! By the end of the episode you are pretty much convinced Avatar Kyoshi didn't do it.

And then she shows up. And you think, oh yeah we're gonna hear it from her that she didn't do it!

And then she's just;

"Not only did I kill him, he fucking deserved it. Sure it was technically an accident, but I was a little busy splitting my island home away from him to save everyone from him being a bloodthirsty conquer, otherwise I would have."

And poof, she peaces.

Girl whole ass possessed Aang's body JUST so that nobody would disrespect her pro-murdering assholes stance or that she killed a man.

Poetry.

[aangarchy]

Zuko finding out about the gaang’s shenanigans after joining them and vice versa is still the funniest thing to me and I think about it all the time

Zuko: where did you even find toph?

Sokka: oh we ran into her while she was a pro wrestling champion

Zuko: .. that twelve yr old blind girl was a what now??

~

Zuko: you said you tried firebending before? Who taught you?

Aang: this strange guy called jeong jeong who lived in a forest

Zuko, who grew up in the firenation and probably heard all about this man: THE DESERTER??

Aang: ya how’d you know??

~

Aang: you know what’s strange? Zhao seemed to just disappear after the north pole... I wonder what happened?

Zuko: oh he’s dead

Aang: w-what?

Zuko: yea. Watched him drown too. A big grabby hand got him and dragged him into the ocean

Aang: .... *crying*

~

Zuko: so what did you guys do while hiding in the fire nation?

Aang: oh not much tbh, I went to school for like two days, Katara and I blew up a factory, we cleaned a river, Toph scammed a whole town, Katara learned bloodbending and I went to therapy

Zuko:

Aang: did I forget anything? Oh right Sokka got a sword

[littlemisspipebomb]

Everyone talks about how Azula should have gotten a redemption arc, and how Toph shouldn't have been a cop and everything but I have another idea. Azula and Toph should absolutely have been together after atla.

Through her teens, Azula remains locked up and unable to bend in a prison of rock. The gaang do their best to rehabilitate her, with Zuko and Toph especially being mirrors, understanding her situation better than anyone else.

With time and a willingness to improve, Azula eventually improves enough to be let out. At first on a tight leash, still with a temper and is generally awkward about the whole situation but is legitimately trying. After all, it's difficult to have spent the first half of your formative years being groomed into a tyrannical dictator and the other half as a war criminal. And knowing how much shitty parents can mess you up, Toph is more understanding than most. Enough that the two slowly become friends. Maybe even more than friends.

Toph helps Azula through the whole healing process, understanding it better than anyone else bar Zuko. And she legitimately wants to improve, it's just a very difficult process which is far from helped by her reputation. She has to change her name and become a different person, much in the same way her brother did in the earth kingdom.

After going through the early steps of rehabilitation she even spends time with Iroh, working the tea shop and going through hell and back working a service job.

Through their early 20s, able to explore the world and themselves, the two begin a relationship together. An absolutely unstoppable couple, only able to be tamed by Zuko. It's not unheard of for the two to demolish large buildings in under 5 minutes or fight against a literal horde of soldiers without taking a scratch.

Seeing how much she enjoys fighting, Toph starts her own pro-bending style wrestling promotion with both frequently fighting in doubles matches together. Azula creating a cocky heel persona simply by virtue of being herself, feeding off the crowd's energy to release the mentality built by her father rather than repressing it entirely as suggested by the rest of the gaang.

[did-we-imagine]

OMG I just watched the DoBS pt 2 of S3 in ATLA.

I'm very late and have skipped stuff whuch I should go back to...

BUT WHAT THE ACTUAL HECK THERE IS SO MUCH STUFF I HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH META ABOUT ?!

My boy Sokka ??? Literally the best strategist ? Hakoda being the bravest dad ever ? I can't even ? Sokka is so so so smart and underrated. I can't even. The way he guessed Ozai had a bunker. His impeccable team work and complimenting Toph. The way he knew where Azula was going though she did get him. Ofc, Toph being the best earthbender. The way that little powerhouse found the effing bunker. She folded that hugeass metal door. Aang being Aang, the last hope of the world y'know. And Azula. Azula is absolutely fabulous. Then there is the parallel between her manipulating Sokka with Suki and Ozai manipulating Zuko to stay with Ursa...That was very interesting. Some other tumblr user had put a screencap of them and mentioned some parallel but I hadn't caught on since I hadn't seen the episode. I think it was smokey-liveblogs ? Feel free to correct me OP or anyone else who knows. I apologize if I am mistaken.

One thing I really liked was that the guys were free to express their feelings. Sokka's tears broke my heart. Poor baby, it feels as if the trauma from losing his mom, and Yue caught up to him...He probs wouldn't have survived losing Suki. Let's not talk abt Zuko, I have a very soft spot for sad abused kids.

Also, Azula's portrayal is probably one of the reasons some of us (me included, yea don't come for my head pls) keep on forgetting she's 14. The voice acting, the makeup, the smoothness...My girl coulda been some very influencial general or minister instead of Zuko's sister/ 2nd queen consort instead of Ozai's daughter and I wouldn't have questioned her abilities as a military strategist/politician. (And pls don't misunderstand, I am not pro Ozula or whatever, what I mean to say is that this little girl is so skilled she could have been a major adult villain and no questions would be asked lmao. Even now, many ppl think she is the older sister.) It's also very creepy...What kind of upbringing made Azula this manipulative ? While I have no doubts that Azula is very cunning and intelligent, I do not think that this level of manipulative prowess is normal for a small 14 yo, she literally caught the other smartest character in the show aka Sokka and grabbed him by the feels, and he does not strike me as a hothead (Zuko)/ Softie (Aang). The parallel is meant to show where she got it from (aka dear old genocidal phoenix papa).

I have already spoken about my own opinion on the Zuko/Ozai showdown. While most people find it -rightfully- cathartic, I personally feel it was not the smartest choice nor the most pragmatic. Aside from my own preferences, the writers could have avoided putting themselves in a tight spot with Zuko being able to kill Ozai and choosing not to "because destiny duh" then trying to convince Aang to do it, which many people -rightfully again- claim is non-sensical at best, hypocritical at worst, since Zuko is chill with calling for his death, though some think that seeing his demise as a necessary evil is not the same as killing him because he's still his father... I think that the confrontation would have been more interesting at the end of the series with a defeated Ozai instead. I would have loved it if Zuko decided to leave a letter and disappear to save Iroh/do stuff. Not only would it have avoided these writing "complications", but also it would have told us more about Zuko & Ozai's relationship indirectly. Would he care to open and read ? How much time would it take him to realize that Zuko peaced out of the palace lol ? What would have Zuko done had he left with Iroh or would they have gone separate ways ( Z with the Gaang/I with the white lotus)? Imagine my dude decided to join the invasion asap lol ? I am not sure as I am very new to this whole writing meta or whatever what this is considered to be, but I think that the main reason for this scene is probably to show the badassery of lightning redirection and "Iroh's teachings" finally getting through Zuko by having the very special technique he created saving his life from Ozai's abuse and generally horrible ways (imperialism, racism, genocide, child abuse, and so on...). It could have been replaced with something even more badass in my humble opinion : maybe him stopping combustion man with it and saving the Gaang's lives, Iroh's whole every nation/element matters coming full circle with him genuinely realizing the severity of his mistakes and protecting people of different nations from his country's march of genocide, the lightning being more than the symbol of the abuse he's been through, but all of FN's sins against its citizens and the other nations. I find this idea interesting in that it would have made Zuko's conflict and learning fit more into the grand scheme of things instead of an individual scale (he redirected lightning twice, once to save himself, and once to save Katara in canon, which is sometimes interpreted as a romantic gesture rather than a purely selfless one).

I didn't want to tackle the emotional impact of their confrontation because I feel it has been very largely touched upon by other very talented meta writers. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Again, going back to Toph and Sokka...Their wisdom is amazing. They may be children, but they are wise beyond their years. They stopped Aang from going to his own death. No, you weren't ready yet, sweetie pie. I love how they didn't lose faith despite their defeat. You can't save the world if you aren't very, very tenacious.I would have shipped Sokka x Toph if it weren't for the age gap and Suki's existence. 🙈

And...The water fam standing amidst of the bombings/chucking projectiles and planning...I wonder how this show was actually aimed at kids...Not easy to watch. I love how it absolutely captured the raw, vile brutality of war.

PS: Hakoda digging Katara's waterbending skills gave me life too, especially after seeing that episode where Pakku refused to teach her because she was a girl. And also, God I love healing, especially as a real life biological/medical science enthusiast. 🙈💖 *squeals* + Hakoda/Bato/the other adults being selfless and letting the kids escape as opposed to Ozai leaving Azula to fend off intruders...I'll never laud enough Hakoda's shielding his kids from the war.

PS 2: english is my 3rd language so I apologize for any strange sentence structures/incoherencies.

[kataraslove]

I was just told a few days ago that they love momtara becauses it tragic that she has to do all the workd for people until of couse Zuko comes along to help out making it less tragic and that logic made zero sense. katara is not cinderella im not sure why her so called fans want her to be cinderella.. or a damsel in distress until zuko comes along its not very pro katara to me it feels the exact opposite.

there’s this really great thread made by my friend @rukihimehive on kataangthinker on twitter debunking momtara with evidence from the series. i highly suggest giving that a read if you’re as tired of the fandom adultifying katara as i am.

I’ve seen momtara enthusiasts say that anyone who is critical of the fandom trope is “taking away her maternal nature, which is associated with her trauma of having lost her mother from a young age.” in other words, “if you don’t support fandom’s insistence that katara is the gaang’s literal mother figure and interpret all her interactions with the gaang as motherly, you’re erasing her trauma.”

which is so ridiculous to me. in the episode the runaway, katara herself dislikes the label of motherly. she takes personal offence over the idea that the gaang would view her as their mother instead of their peer, and demands to know if it’s true that her behaviour comes across as too motherly, especially because “motherly” is associated with negative connotations such as “bossy,” and “overbearing.”

I’ve seen people state that the gaang’s treatment towards katara is unhealthy, that katara is forced to do all the emotional work and emotional labour and none of the gaang ever supports her in anything. which just isn’t even remotely true.

episodes like the desert - in which the gaang are under extenuating circumstances that forces katara to step up and take care of them - are the exception, not the standard. in bitter work, katara explains to toph on how they divide the chores amongst themselves. katara takes personal issue (and for good reason) when toph only wants to do her share.

there’s multiple episodes in which the gaang help pitch the tent and perform campsite duties. there’s a whole episode dedicated to how katara and sokka are both sick, resulting in aang having to run across the world to retrieve them medicine. there’s an entire episode dedicated to how the gaang cannot get anything done without sokka, who usually manages their schedules and itineraries and helps ensure that they’re on track. there’s plenty of moments in which aang and katara are goofing off, and sokka gets mad at them for not sticking to his carefully curated and meticulous schedule and for putting a wedge in their plans to save communities (see: imprisoned and the painted lady). there’s moments when toph assumes responsibility; there’s moments when aang assumes responsibility. and then there’s moments when none of them have any clue on what to do, when they literally act like children navigating a world that’s constantly trying to kill them.

and what about in katara-centric episodes? what about in the episodes dedicated to developing her character? surely the selfish gaang couldn’t possibly support and understand her goals and desires?

1. imprisoned - sokka and aang aide in katara’s plan to immediately get captured and free haru. aang takes her side when katara suggests to free the prisoners. aang and sokka aide katara in freeing the imprisoned earthbenders.

2. the waterbending master - aang rejects learning from a sexist because pakku refuses to teach katara. aang agrees to train katara everything he learns in the middle of the night. aang and sokka cheer katara on as she goes head-to-head with master pakku.

3. the puppetmaster - the gaang allows katara the opportunity to learn waterbending from hama, a southern water tribe bender, until they discover what hama’s been doing all along. sokka and aang rush to confront hama and to protect katara. later, they provide katara comfort after she breakdowns over learning how to bloodbend.

4. the painted lady - aang calls katara a secret hero for helping people in need, even though katara lied to the gaang and pretended that appa was sick. he later helps katara destroy the factory, and then aides in her plan to confront the fire nation soldiers as the painted lady.

sokka defends his sister’s actions:

“Maybe she is a waterbender, but she was just trying to help you. Because of her, that factory won't be polluting your river, and the army is gone. You should be down on your knees thanking her!”

the southern raiders - this episode is so misconstrued by fandom that every reading of it has become so far detached by canon. no, sokka and aang were not demonizing katara for believing that revenge was the suitable option for her (we find out in the episode that it wasn’t). yes, katara wanted far more than just confrontation (she said it herself - maybe revenge was what he deserved). no, aang was not demonizing katara for stating that her words reminded him of jet’s, who had died a noble death and who katara had personally mourned for. no, jet is not a terrorist and/or a psychopath - he was a child indoctrinated by propaganda and motivated by the death of his parents at the hands of the fire nation. aang and sokka do not interfere in katara’s decision to pursue the man who killed her mother, even if they felt that katara might end up killing that man. no, if katara had killed that man, aang and sokka would not shut her out or ignore her or make her feel subhuman. aang himself had several instances in which he would have taken several lives (sandbenders) if katara hadn’t stopped him. that’s why he says, “I’m proud of you,” because katara arrived at that moral decision on her own, without the influence of external sources (reminder that in the desert, katara had to physically stop aang). at the end of the episode, katara discusses with aang that forgiveness was not the approach she would take towards yon rha, but it was the approach that she would take towards zuko, who had earned her forgiveness.

in each of the above katara-centric episodes (with the sole exception of tsr, which I had described in great detail) the gaang understands katara’s goals and desires and helps her accomplish them, and protects and defends her. to me, that does not come across as a dynamic in which katara is overwhelmingly at risk and treated like absolute dirt. it’s actually quite telling on the quality of a fictional ship (or lack thereof) when fans must demonize katara’s friends and family in order to prop up her fanon love interest.

and when her fanon love interest DOES join the group, nothing… really changes in terms of the dynamics. he serves them tea occasionally? he tells sokka to get out of a bison’s mouth? katara still performs the cooking duties. katara still asks if zuko’s okay and makes sure that he’s included in group activities. the gaang turn to zuko because he is sufficient at hunting down aang, but they all formulate a plan for the comet together. one throwaway line informing someone to get out of the bison’s mouth and him being a strict teacher towards aang does not make him a dad. especially when none of the gaang truly see him as a dad and would probably die of laughing before even considering him as such.

that’s not to even mention the point of zuko’s arc when joining the gaang is not for him to assume an authority, paternal role over a group of kids younger than him (but around his age). it’s for him to finally realize that he belongs to a group of children as traumatized as him, to a family for once in his life. so why should fandom enforce him into a pseudo dad role that isn’t even canon nor would his character even want?

going back to katara, at her core katara is a young, fourteen year old child who has been forced to assume a motherly role to compensate for the loss of her mother. episodes like the runaway delve into how this trauma has forced her to grow up and act older than her age, but at the end of the day, she is still a child and does not wants to be viewed by her peers as some form of motherly figure. which is why it’s so important that characters like aang and toph remind her that she still is a kid, like them.

dark-skinned female characters like katara suffer from the phenomenon of adultification and hypersexualization in fandom spaces. their characters are treated as pseudo mother figures, irregardless of what the narrative could or could not outline for the audience. momtara is a problematic trope because it erases the nuanced dynamics in katara’s relationship with her friends and family, assuming that all interactions with the gaang are of her being their mother. and that canonically, that’s all katara can be towards them. especially in the interest of a ship.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Avatar Ty Lee AU:

I don't remember if this was asked but how does The Blind Bandit episode go?

Okay so overall they end up at the same underground tournament. And have fun watching because even if none of the contestants are the 'right teacher', they are good Earthbenders.

Though the one contestant 'Fire Nation Man' gets a shared look of 'my dude........ The fuck.....'

Anyway!

Eventually we get to 'the Blind Bandit'. Which has Aang and Ty Lee go 'oh shit she's the girl from the swamp vision!'(which has the rest of the group realize 'oh shit that made sense why do sentences like that make sense now?')

I'm gonna have Ty Lee be the one to try and talk to her and she's a lot more rambling than Aang and just starts straight up talking even as Toph is like '???? We're supposed to be fighting??? No I'm not going to teach you leave me alone???'

Eventually Toph gets knocked out of the ring like in Canon, and just disappears when anyone tries to chase after her.

The group starts looking for Toph outside in town. And they eventually hear about the Beifong family, but no one in town ever heard of them having a daughter(which.... is Canon).

This.... honestly raises some red flags. So when they talk to the Beifongs and meet Toph again, they're a bit more delicate instead of nearly outing her 'double life' and causing less tension during dinner.

Later, Ty Lee and Toph are the ones talking in the gardens.

And I want this talk to be a lot longer and like. Ty Lee saying more on the 'You're not happy here. Sure, your parents might in their own way love you. But do they love /you/? Do they love the person you really are?'.

And Toph tries to be aloof about it, but Ty Lee has already seen through that persona. So she admits that she's a little terrified of it. Because it's one thing to sneak out and kick ass at Earth Rumble. But to actually run away on her own for real? Oh, for sure she believes she could. But she fears less that she won't make it out there alone, but more that if it does end up that she isn't able to do so, that it'll be about her being 'blind and helpless' less than it is about her being a child.

Ty Lee is all 'well, you could always run away with us. We've seen you. The real you. And we all have our issues and things we can't do. We rely on each other not because we have to, but because we want to. Because it's good to have people around who have different skills. That way, you'll still be somewhere you can be purely just you, but you don't have a fear of failure."

Toph low-key points out the whole 'if I join you, if I teach you Earthbending, then you're dragging me into the War'

And Ty Lee does admit to that. Toph shouldn't join if she doesn't want to get involved there. But she has a feeling that Toph isn't the type of person who would sit back if she could help, just because it's 'safe'.

Toph says she'll think about it. And then we get them all ambushed by the whole Earth Rumble crew. Ty Lee is varying levels of 'damn it why am I always the one getting kidnapped???'

Eventually that ransom note is found and while it seems simple on the 'hand over the money' thing, the whole Gaang suspects something is up and goes along ready for a fight.

Yeah they're right because while Toph is allowed to go free we get the 'hm, lets hand over one of the Avatars to the Fire Nation'. Whcih like. To be fair, the Gaang and even Toph's parents call them out on that like 'My dude??? You're willing to hand over the /AVATAR/ to the /FIRE NATION/?????? And all you random pro wrestler fucks are cool with it?!?!?!"

Toph remembers what Ty Lee had said. About how she doesn't seem like the type to stand by when someone's in danger to save herself. This is only spurred on by her parents saying they'll get her out before the fighting starts because she's so helpless.

Like in Canon, Toph pretty much oneshots the whole group. And it's badass as FUCK.

Toph tries talking with her parents. About how she is, in fact, just as capable as anyone else. How she loves what she does and she's not that 'perfect little girl' they wanted. And they react exactly the same in Canon. Terrified for her, still in denial because she has to be helpless, right? She has to be that fragile little girl and this was just a one off, right? And they tell the others to leave and that Toph is getting even less freedom than before.

Ofc the Gaang is already talking to each other like 'okay so. Who's turn is it to plan a kidnapping?'.

By that point Toph shows up like 'haha yeah my parents changed their minds and said I can come with you!'. But they call her out like 'You ran away didn't you?' yeah....

But hey half of them are runaways so let's fucking go!

[dragomer]

What's are your thoughts on Iroh from atla? You can rant and elaborate if you want

There isn't much to rant about, he's cool but the fandom is way to obsessed with him and overhype way too much.

Like 99% of fics and art will NEVER have Iroh fuck ups like in canon and a lot even attribute some of Zuko's good ideas and reaction to him, like when Zuko come up with not revealing that they found the avatar so they wouldn't have to compete with everyone else to catch him and many fics have Iroh be the one coming up with that.

They also refuse to acknowledge some of the retcons or incoherence in his character and backstory, like the 'learning from the dragons' thing when he was still pro-fire nation or the White Lotus as a whole, having members who were 'actually always part of it' when they clearly hindered the Gaang at times for petty reasons.

Thanks for the ask ^^