#pre52

[spite-and-waffles]

I'm putting together various storyline chronologies for my own reference, and just finished the Batfamily one. It's not the most elegant, but it might help anyone who wants to know the order. Alt text included.

See this reblog for further info about No Man's Land.

The Complete Knightfall

Not included: character backstories like Long Halloween, the Year One series or Red Hood: Lost Days. Will do a separate post for them.

See also:

Complete list of Batman Vol. 1 issues (1986–2011)

Complete list of pre-reboot Detective Comics (1986–2011) issues

Complete list of Shadow of the Bat Vol. 1 (1992–2000) issues

Legends of the Dark Knight Vol. 1 (1989–2006) collections

Complete list of Legends of the Dark Knight Vol. 1 issues

Complete list of Gotham Knights Vol. 1 (2000–2006)

Complete List of Batman Mini-series (1986–2011)

Complete List of Streets of Gotham Vol. 1 issues (2009–2011)

Complete List of Batman Elseworlds stories

Complete List of The Batman Chronicles Vol. 1 (1995–2001)

[welcometogrouchland]

[ID in ALT] Steph and Damian doodle! This taps a bit into their pre-52 dynamic so that's what I was thinking design wise at first but I wanted to draw it w their more recent designs as well to stay hashtag current and topical, so you get both/a fusion, lol

[kittykatninja321]

Brothers in Blood but instead of framing Dick for murder Jason's doing full on Hannibal Lecter shit like meticulously set up traps and situations and fucked up trolley problems and psychological manipulation trying to coerce Dick into organically murdering someone himself. Why? They were doing anything with Jason's character in this era, why not. Lets get psychological with it

[lesbian-cowpoke]

I'm gonna be honest I need someone to explain wtf is the DC timeline.

Cause like. I get everything pre-flashpoint. Then n52 happens and my brain breaks.

I'm specifically asking because I'm trying to piece together Stephanie's timeline.

So like. In the n52 she basically never met the bats before and was spoiler again. That timeline carried to rebirth. And in the Batmen Eternal storyline... Tim like... found/was given tech/brother eye from the pre52 future? Cause like it's from the pre52 timeline just in the future? And it shows Steph and Cass that they used to be batgirls in that timeline?

And then. I don't know. They become batgirls again? And like. Steph's old history is back???

Idk. I'm very confused help please.

[roseworth]

Hi sorry not to be weird but you're the local Rose expert and I was wondering if you could help me? I'm trying to figure out what ethnic group Lili Worth belongs to. I know she's from Cambodia so logic says she would most likely be Khmer, but the fact that she was fleeing the Khmer Rouge puts that kinda in doubt for me? I've seen a few things saying she's Hmong which would make sense as they were a minority group during the Cambodian Genocide but they're a pretty small portion of the population and I haven't seen anything canon supporting it, just fan posts. When it comes to Lili I've really only read Deathstroke the Terminator (1991) so I'm not super familiar with her. Sorry for any trouble!

!!! no trouble at all <3

as far as i know it never specifically said which ethnic group she was pre-52, but in deathstroke #15 slade says that lili was a "local princess in the siem pang"

honestly i dont know a lot about the different ethnic groups in cambodia but google says that the common ethnic groups in the siem pang are the khmer and lao. i guess we can assume shes lao since she was fleeing the khmer rouge? but unfortunately the real answer is that marv wolfman put 0 thought into any of this

but then. in deathstroke #43 suddenly she says she was trained by the khmer rouge??? idk if this is a retcon or if we're supposed to assume that they trained her to fight while she was imprisoned???? odd choices all around tbh

so short answer: its not specified and wolfman probably didnt even consider any of it for more than 5 seconds

but!!! during rebirth in deathstroke (2016) she and rose are confirmed hmong!

and they've been hmong ever since <3

[evilwickedme]

The least important hill I will die on is that Tim and Jason are NOT two years apart I keep seeing this but it's BULLSHIT. Jason and Tim both have summer birthdays. Jason dies at 15 in April. Tim becomes robin A FEW MONTHS LATER at 13. Unless a few months later is suddenly two or less (esp since to my recollection it's actually stated to be six months but that might be wrong) Tim will have turned 13 in July and he in fact would have been 12 in April when Jason died so they are three years apart ok GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEADS IT'S BASIC MATH. This doesn't matter in the least nowadays since they fucked it up in post52 continuing by not letting Tim age but on principile I need y'all to stop giving this two year age difference figure it's not correct!!!!

CHECK REBLOG FOR FULL TIMELINE FYI

[ambrozians]

Please do elaborate because I 100% agree with you (and happy Easter btw 💛)

happy easter to you too, anon! 🩷

(elaborating on this post)

so there’s a few reasons why jade would not surrender full custody of her son to roy that extend past the mere fact that tommy is not his child. let’s get into them!

i’ve spoken about this here in comparing her and roy, but jade prefers to keep her professional and personal lives as separate as possible. jade is also very particular about who can/should have a hand in raising her children, and she’s already expressed disdain for dinah because of that. (sidebar: the only character she has trusted lian’s care with outside of roy is dick). as we all know, she does not like the titans or the arrowfam. she would not be very inclined to have her son in situations where he might have to interact with or be babysat by any of them unless it was unavoidable (ex. lian's birthday party). she might not be able to limit lian's exposure to superheroes, villains, etc., but she can do it with tommy, and really work to make sure his life is as normal as possible.

the most important thing, however, is acknowledging what motherhood empowers jade to do, which is to retire. her desire for retirement is something that persists throughout her appearances in pre-52 continuity. she has expressed a desire to leave "cheshire" behind on multiple occasions and spend the rest of her life with the people most important to her. do take note that when lian and tommy were born, most of the missions (exclusively, with tommy) were accepted because they furthered a personal goal of hers, finding roy and catman respectively. in fact, she retreated to the himalayas and later southern california when raising tommy. all this to say that being a mother is far more important to jade than "cheshire" is, and it is only when she feels like she cannot/is barred from that does she resort to working.

lastly, there’s no reason why tommy should not be in jade's custody. she has never expressed any intention in raising her children to be an assassin and that’s an assumption that has run rampant. does it make sense for the characters within the universe to assume that? yes, but not for fans. let’s put that narrative to rest. she has only ever wanted the best for her children and works to ensure that.

so as not to derail the post, i’ll save what i think tommy’s life would’ve been like had he been able to become his own character instead of a plot device used either to demonize jade or induce her suffering, and what roy’s role in his life might’ve looked like. but alas, he unfortunately exists in the series that has caused the most harm to jade’s character so that’s why he doesn’t get talked about a lot.

[sassylittlecanary]

A DC fan I know keeps referring to Babs as one of the “Batkids” and it’s taking everything in me not to explode into flames

[thelittleredheadedmusician]

I write some really niche fics (hopefully some of you just went “no shit, that’s why we’re here” and some went “no shit! Tell more!”) but I feel a little more vindicated for my series of Mia Dearden & John Constantine being reluctant friends fics. I initially justified it as a “Ollie met John once & Dinah is friends with Zatanna so she probably heard of him if not met him once or twice so Mia could have heard of him thru them” AND GUESS FUCKING WHAT. AS OF THE CURRENT BOP ISSUE DINAH NOT ONLY KNOWS JOHN BUT THEY’RE ON DECENT TERMS AND HE KNOWS OLLIE TOO SO LIKE *insert Brooklyn 99 VINDICATION meme here*

[spite-and-waffles]

The Complete Nightwing (Pre-52)

Google Drive link and Complete List of Nightwing Issues and Extras under the cut.

(Please let me know if you want me to upload anything else)

Link to Google Drive

Other references: Post-Crisis Dick Grayson timeline by @bitimdrake

Other Google Drive Links:

New Teen Titans

Titans Vol. 1

Outsiders Vol. 3

Titans Vol. 2

See also (lists only, drive not yet uploaded):

Complete Chronological List of Pre-52 Batman storylines and collected editions

Complete list of Batman Vol. 1 issues (1986–2011)

Complete list of Pre-52 Detective Comics (1986–2011)

Complete list of Shadow of the Bat Vol. 1 (1992–2000)

Complete list of Legends of the Dark Knight Vol. 1 issues & issue collections

Complete list of Gotham Knights Vol. 1 (2000–2006)

Complete list of Batman Mini-series (1986–2011)

Complete List of Batman One-Shots

Complete list of Streets of Gotham Vol. 1 issues (2009–2011)

Complete List of The Batman Chronicles Vol. 1 (1995–2001)

Complete List of Batman Elseworlds stories

Complete List of Pre-52 Batgirl issues

[providencehq]

Crying and screaming I can't find the original file and only 2 fucking screenshots

[kingcygnus]

so i guess tim is back to being an orphan... i love comic continuity and linear storytelling, this definitely doesn't make shit confusing

[kittykatninja321]

Pre 52: resurrected by superboy prime punch cosmic glitch. Digs self out of grave. Gets hit by a car. Talia finds him catatonic. Gets dunked in the Lazarus pit. Goes on murder training tour

Rhato: Talia resurrects him with the Lazerus pit. Drops him off at magic ninja daycare. Spends a few years there then joins up with the league of assassins for a little bit. Leaves the league eventually

[sasheneskywalker]

jason todd meta list

Jason Todd's canon ages, with sources

by InDarknessOftFindI

Jason Todd and Comic Book Morality

by clinicalmiddlechildsyndrome

Jason Todd, The Hysteric & Bruce Wayne, The Batman

by aresianrepose

Jason's point isn't about whether or not villains can be redeemed, it's about the people they continue to kill

by its-not-lookin-good, de-vespertiliones

Who's to blame? How Jason Todd is blamed for his own demise (Part II)

by fuckyeahjasontodd

unjust world

by lemontongues

a son asking his dad to prove that he loves him by avenging him

by blueteehood

jason todd as a meta character

by brionysea

jason values “the good guys”

by cleromancy

Why Jason and Cass wouldn’t get along

by aingeal98, tumblingxelian

Jason and Cass: Murder Victim and Murderer

by casscainmainly

Cassandra Cain and Jason Todd Are Foils to One Another.

by celestialdevils

The Pit’s influence on Jason has nothing to do with anger and is more about blunting his compassion

by bitimdrake

the debate between Jason and Bruce’s killing/no-killing rule is so fucking exhausting because they’re both right and that’s the damn point

by wanderintofics

Willis and Catherine

by firefrightfic

The Jason Todd Book Club

by pluckyredhead

Jason and his reaction to sexual assault

by pluckyredhead

the issue posed in “The Diplomat’s Son” is that Bruce questioned whether Garzonas fell or was pushed and doubted Jason’s word when Jason said he fell

by fantastic-nonsense

Post-Crisis!Jason had exactly two life goals as Red Hood: make Batman’s life a living hell by creating chaos and prove he’s “better” at crimefighting than Bruce

by fantastic-nonsense

how long was jason dead for / how long before came back to gotham

by sohotthateveryonedied

timeline of Jason coming back to Gotham

by sohotthateveryonedied

Jason being good with kids

by sohotthateveryonedied

Too Dangerous for Kids

by redhoodinternaldialectical

Jason and Bruce’s conflict is not a misunderstanding

by redhoodinternaldialectical

outward expressions of emotions

by aalghul

Jason and guns

by aalghul

Jason Todd’s Childhood Friends

by aalghul

Jason Todd- DC's Pandora's box

by mintacle

"utilitarian killing vs. no kill rule" dilemma

by mintacle

Bruce-as-Batman Vs Bruce-as-parent, Batman is the abuser and Bruce is the enabler

by mintacle

Jason’s final monologue in Under the Red Hood is so impactful and important because he’s being honest

by littledead-ridinghood

Bruce, Jason, upbringing and ethics

by cainware, littledead-ridinghood

Bruce, Jason and Robin retcons

by littledead-ridinghood

Jason grew up alone

by littledead-ridinghood

in the New52 the reason why Bruce doesn’t take Jason down personally has either changed or expanded

by comic-commentary

do you think jason pushed felipe?

by comic-commentary

What does Jason want to do with his life?

by comic-commentary

does jason carefully select/thoroughly research the criminals he kills, or is it just on sight?

by comic-commentary

Jason Todd and the Ladies: Pre-Resurrection

by comic-commentary

Jason Todd and the Ladies: Post-Resurrection

by comic-commentary

Jason and Tim in Pre52

by comic-commentary

Dick and Jason were never close in canon

by comic-commentary

Gray Areas Exist *throws glitter*

by comic-commentary

Jason consistently positions himself with the other victims of the Joker

by arkhamnyanight

canon shows Jason being remarkably, and I would say to some degree irrationally, eager to be on good terms with Bruce again

by arkhamnyanight

Jason’s motivations and plan in UTRH

by arkhamnyanight

why Jason chooses to confront Bruce rather than directly kill the Joker

by arkhamnyanight

call Jason a murder victim you cowards

by romanticizingmurder

the sanctity of life

by romanticizingmurder

What Jason says and what Jason does aren't always the same

by romanticizingmurder

how many people will die waiting for a villain to reform?

by romanticizingmurder

Countdown and Jason’s characterization

by yvtro

the brilliance of jay's progression in countdown

by boyfridged

bruce is projecting on jason and it profoundly affected jay

by boyfridged

Jason, Willis, and retcons

by boyfridged

Jason and reaching out

by boyfridged

Jason Todd trusts Dick Grayson, and so Dick is a glowing, ticking timebomb

by thecruellestmonth

Does the mass-murdering criminal Jason "Red Hood" Todd canonically support the death penalty?

by thecruellestmonth

Jason Todd + cops

by thecruellestmonth

Jason Todd + literature

by thecruellestmonth

Jason Todd vs. security

by thecruellestmonth

quick and dirty guide to Jason Todd in the masterpiece Batman: Battle for the Cowl—canon and fanon

by thecruellestmonth

Jason Todd’s knife skills

by wonderwondered

Jason Todd’s less known skills appreciation

by wonderwondered

Jason Todd’s fighting skills

by wonderwondered

Jason is a victim, not a survivor

by greylittlebird, vintagerobin. thecruellestmoth

[I will be updating the list every time I find a new meta post.]

[roseworth]

I like to pretend that Rose and Jason date simply for the reason to shit on each other after their break up like bitter exes but in a more annoying way that make everyone wonder why are they keep meeting if they really hate each other (they do it on purpose). One of them said something one day, "Let's date." And the other just agreed and leave it at that, they never do anything after that. The reason they broke up is so ridiculously made up that when people hear about it they can't believe that it was even possible. They're in and out of a relationship to make everyone else miserable.

LMAO anon i am in love with you this is so funny. neither of them ever let people know anything about their personal life so they both started saying THE most outlandish things about their relationship so no one would ask them anymore

also oh my god. i hc rose as a lesbian and jason as aroace which makes it SO MUCH FUNNIER because no one believes them when they say theyre dating but then the more people hear about their relationship theyre like... okay so maybe this is real and also the worst thing to ever exist

they make up the worst shit about each other and the general response is just

then when other people arent around they just hang out. they live to make everyone else's lives more distressing <3