#please don't read this and like assume I'm being prideful and boasting or something

[smokedcapybara]

I just had a realization that kinda totally changed my perspective on a big part of my life

I was reading a Dear Evan Hansen fanfic and realized, through a convoluted thought process I’m not going to explain right now, that if Connor Murphy had been a real person and had gone to my high school at the same time as I did chances are I would’ve befriended him

it’s an idea I dismissed without much thought when I first joined the fandom, based entirely off the anxiety and fear of people that heavily affected my first couple years of high school

but now that I’ve taken the time to analyze his behavior in the musical and take into account more than just my anxiety on my end of things I’ve realized that initial dismissal was wrong

throughout the five years I was in high school I gradually built a web of friends, seeking out as many of the outcasts and misfits as I could and doing my best to give them a group

by the time I graduated it was my thing, I was the senior with several friends in every grade - all people who felt they didn’t fit in with the bigger group

I had like over a dozen different friend groups I was part of that were all tangled together

so I would definitely have done my best to find a way to bring Connor into all that

now to explain what’s so big and important about this whole realization

for most of my life my brother was part of every friend group I had

(I didn’t find out until after high school that he hadn’t actually seen any of them as friends, which kinda made everything worse)

you see, he wasn’t just part of all my friend groups from mid-elementary school until he left high school

no, he was the leader of all my friend groups from around mid-elementary school until he left high school

starting with the little six person club I founded when I was in, like third or fourth grade: the club was structured off the stereotypical wolf pack and we voted on the two leaders, my brother and my friend Destiny won that vote

cut to about a year after our move to Texas I’ve finally cemented my new friend group: four boys who all practically worshiped my brother, and since three of them lived just a street over they were convenient people for him to hang out with so he ended up calling the shots more often than not

that’s when I started to get bitter; we’d started talking about starting a “Texas branch” of our old club and my brother declared that he should be the leader because he’d been the leader back in Kent, instead of voting like we’d done before - of course everyone else went along with it eagerly

my brother is a very charismatic person, a natural leader

I didn’t find out until he left high school that I’m good at leading too, when my anxiety doesn’t get in the way

after we moved back up to Washington I made new friends relatively quickly: I was the only ‘girl’ in my special ed class and all the boys wanted to impress me (to be honest it really helped my self-esteem that they’d always glance back at me right after they made a joke to see my reaction)

and then they met my brother, and of course him and my best friend hit it off immediately and spent the whole afternoon playing card games while I was left to sit alone, that’s when my jealousy started getting bad

me and my little friend group started high school and by the end of the year we’d been pulled into my brother’s friend group, along with a handful of other people, because of the weekly rp games we’d all play

they were really fun and I loved them, but my brother was, of course, a natural dm and so was more often than not in charge of these hangouts

and my friends tended to be more eager to hang out at the weekly rp sessions than any other time

for the next few years every time I made a new friend they’d eventually end up at the weekly rp session or they’d meet my brother at lunch and hit it off with him

my sophomore year the friend who’d gotten me through the drama class my mom had enrolled me in in eighth grade was a freshman, I reconnected with him the same day my brother officially met him - and of course he was more interested in hanging out with my brother than me

I had maybe three friends that didn’t feel like they liked my brother more than me through the entirety of those years

and so my whole life I’ve lived under that thought - my brother was always the leader of my friend groups and I was always overshadowed by him

but then today I thought about how I would’ve befriended Connor Murphy, how I would’ve pulled him into the web I’d so carefully and incidentally crafted, how I would’ve given him a place or a person to listen like I’d given dozens of kids by the time I graduated

sure, when Mike was in high school my main group was dominated and dictated by those weekly rp sessions he led but after he left

after he left I built something so much greater, to me, than those weekly sessions

I became the person who would sit with a different group at lunch each day so none would feel like I was neglecting or forgetting them - and I had a good number of groups to sit with

I became the person who always had someone to talk to or just sit with before school

I became the person who had nearly a dozen freshman looking up to them and hoping for their approval

I became the person who everyone knew would do their best to be there for you if you were struggling, even if just in offering a hug

I became the one person who could mediate between the kid with authority issues and the teacher he always butted heads with - because they both respected me and trusted me to look rationally at and understand both sides

I became the person who, when I had to go to the office because I couldn’t do a required assignment (I don’t know why but the idea of writing letters always triggered my anxiety and making it a “either do the assignment or go to the office” thing really didn’t help, even though I was also terrified of the office) the whole class apparently rebelled against the teachers after I left and declared they weren’t doing the assignment either - even the kids who always did the assignments (the friend who told me made it sound like I was the martyr who’d inspired a revolution)

the whole time, while I did see this to some extent and it did make me feel good about myself, I was still overshadowed by that jealousy of my brother, that thought that he would always be better than me

but now I see that he really wasn’t

he gave a couple dozen kids a bunch of fun and a charismatic leader for four years

I gave somewhere between twenty and fifty kids someone who they knew would dedicate as much effort as possible to being there for them, listening to and seeing them, encouraging their hobbies, complimenting their skills, someone who they knew would always do their utmost to understand them

Michael gave them a game that he always led, I gave them a place to belong

so really, I think I actually did much better than him

[papirouge]

i wanted to ask you something for a while since i actually think you'd have good wisdom on this topic because you're more level headed and consistent than a lot of christians i know

do you think seething irrational hatred can inhabit grueling traits from all the 7 deadly sins?

just read more if u need me to explain my thoughts at all

Pride: because a prideful boastful person will often show hatred towards anything that doesn't funnel their ego

Sloth: refer to the saying idle hands lead to evil thoughts

Gluttony: greedy people often have disdain for the lower class or people that don't cater to their needs to feel satisfied in general

Lust: often lusting for a person can lead to you hating them as a person for not making you the centre of their world or you can develop hatred from not gaining the sexual satisfaction you desired from them

Envy: self explanatory, people very often hate on what they don't have and can't have

Wrath: this emotion is so closely intertwined with hatred there is no instance of hatred where you have no anger nor ill will towards the target in question ofc

my point being that aggressive hatred is probably the biggest downfall of any person wanting to step into that snakepit

Thank you anon 🤍

I think you're really onto something. A lot of sins boil down to the same roots. My only issue in your standpoint is that you rely on the 7 deathly sins that have no biblical back up - it's only Catholic folklore. And yes, the Bible calls out these sins in the Bible.....but these aren't the only ones (disobedience, cowardice, doubtfulness, divination, complaining, wearing tattoos, etc.) are also criticized in the Bible, so I don't get along this cherrypicking of sins. Besides, I'm wary of shoving into tiny boxes the reason as of why Humans do sins, which are much more complex than adjectives.

Why did Eve eat the forbidden fruit? I assume you'll immediately reply "envy" when actually... it's a bit more subtle than that...:

Genesis 3:4-7

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’? ” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

It's interesting to note that the forbidden fruit was mostly likely known from both Adam and Eve as they knew where it was. Eve may come across it everyday but the thought of eating it never crossed her mind out of her obedience to God. So it hardly make sense she suddenly felt the intense urge/envy to eat it out of thin air. The thing is, SATAN through his persuasion made it appealing by lying to her and that the fruit would give her knowledge. Eve didn't eat the fruit out of simple "envy" but because she got duped in the benefit it would bring to her by eating it: "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it."

"Envy" doesn't come out of thin air. This envy comes along the benefit of surrending to sin. And that's something the whole concept of 7 deathly sins kinda glosses over.

You know anon, I too have been thinking about the origin of sin and on what leverage satan relied to to enslave humanity with it. And God led me to the passage of the Bible where satan tried to tempt Jesus into sin. Satan knew what he was doing ; he knew Who Jesus was and that to screw Him up he had to resort to the his sneakiest tricks.

He went on to 3 attempts that each represent the 3 main ways satan manipulates humanity.

Luke 4:1-13

Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry. The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.” Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’” The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.” Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’” The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus answered, “It is said: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.

trick #1 : The dismissal of spiritual life over material matters. Expecting a good life while not eating the bread of God or refusing to make sacrifice and "work our salvation" (Philippians 2:12) to abide in god's commandments (= prayer, fasting, sanctification => spiritual food)

trick #2 : Lust for life and worldly matters. Idolatry of the self (instead of God).

trick #3 : Eternal security. "God loves me/I am Christian so I can do whatever I want/sin but God will always have my back". This matches Eve's sin : she got lured by satan into thinking that even though she sinned, she "wouldn't die" (in a spiritual sense, sin = death, so satan misguided her into believing that sin wouldn't come with consequences).

That's why the Hyper Grace/Once Saved Always Saved doctrine is so dangerous and literally inspired by satan btw.

With these elements let's put into perspective the examples you brought up:

"Pride: because a prideful boastful person will often show hatred towards anything that doesn't funnel their ego" = TRICK #2 : pridefulness resides in people valuing their self more than anything. Idolatry of the ego.

"Sloth: refer to the saying idle hands lead to evil thoughts" = TRICK #1: laziness doesn't necessarily translates to anger and vice versa. But laziness for sure comes from a place of a refusal to self sacrifice (having to work, make efforts)

"Gluttony: greedy people often have disdain for the lower class or people that don't cater to their needs to feel satisfied in general" = TRICK #2 Lust for life/hedonism: food, sex, and more more and more... I don't think gluttony and greed are the same thing as greed come off more financial 🤔 but yeah they both rely on the same trick.

"Lust: often lusting for a person can lead to you hating them as a person for not making you the centre of their world or you can develop hatred from not gaining the sexual satisfaction you desired from them" = TRICK #2 i.e reasons above

"Envy: self explanatory, people very often hate on what they don't have and can't have" = TRICK #2 Envy comes from a lust for life (someone, something, a status, etc.)

"Wrath: this emotion is so closely intertwined with hatred there is no instance of hatred where you have no anger nor ill will towards the target in question ofc" = TRICK #2 as wrath comes from the attack against one's ego/idolatry of self. If *you*, the person reading this, thinks deeply about the last time you felt anger, you will see what I mean... That also explains why prideful people are often bad-tempered and easily angered.

Note that the TRICK #3 is exclusive to Christian can't translate to unbelievers. But it's interesting to see how satan used it as a last resort against Jesus. It truly is satan's biggest leverage to fool so many Christians and manipulate them into thinking is okay and that they're still saved despite sinning. Exactly like he did with Eve, stating she wouldn't die despite disobeying God. ...and look where we are now~🤦🏾‍♀️