#people on all sides of this fandom take things out of context and cherry pick to prove their point

[taylorrepdetective]

People drive me crazy. Ya’ll as bad as maga folks sometimes

[tuiyla]

since we're bring up the subreddit's greatest hits, I think my last straw was the 5th post within like 3 days that was basically "how dare Santana taint the beauty of finchel by ruining their perfect prom memory". I'm not here to argue it was her finest moment, but my god, the way people blow that out of proportion. And all just to canonize Finn, as if he shouldn't have been kicked out of that prom in the first place anyway. frankly, I'm glad Santana "ruined" that cringe moment.

The subreddit's greatest hits and it's just the most tired takes you've ever heard lol. What a time it was to check it several times a day.

I feel like that one's a classic but one I haven't heard in so long I sort of just blocked it. People get so obsessed with that particular detail. Like, I'm sorry, but out of Santana's whole rant that's the thing you think is the worst thing she's ever said? Obviously it was cruel, but in the context of how I feel about the whole scene and 100 Pezberry stuff in general I really don't pay it much attention.

But my god people love to shit on Santana for that one thing in particular. Let me play Satan's advocate for a moment and be the blatantly biased Santana stan people think I am lol. She wasn't lying, was she? All Santana did was reveal that it was only because of her and Quinn that Rachel got the crown. Frankly, I don't know what Rachel thought happened. I mean, even in the scene itself she fears it's a joke. If I were Rachel, I'd be pissed that Santana would stoop so low as to want to ruin my prom moment, sure, but then I'd think for a second and realize what that stupid bitch was actually saying. That she and Quinn both cared about Rachel enough to want to give her the crown, completely disregarding McKinley's vote. That's got to count for something, and sure it got revealed by Santana being a bitch but if the Pezberry feud proved anything it's that Rachel's got to see Santana's good side more. But, I mean, yeah, it was a low blow from Santana. Not earth-shatteringly cruel tho by any means.

And also, and this is what gets me: the scene never brings up Finn. Santana never does, Rachel never does. It's the fans who automatically think, oh how dare she ruin that Finchel moment. And I think that's doing Rachel a disservice, who probably did very much like her dance and joint triumph with Finn but it meant more than that to her. She specifically highlights her friends' belief in her mattering the most. And that meaning stays even after the revelation because Quinntana believed in her, even if, in her hurt, Santana used the fact against Rachel. So what I'm trying to say is that, because of Cory Monteith's and therefore Finn's tragic death the fans have this tendency to consider certain things sacred. But it's them who gave that scene this meaning, not the scene in 100 that has nothing to do with Finn being gone and Santana somehow intentionally ruining Rachel's memory of him. That's literally not what happened and even Santana wouldn't stoop so low as to insult his memory, not to Rachel.

In general, season 5's approach beyond The Quarterback and special mentions here and there, like City of Angels and Bash IIRC is to ignore the Finn elephant in the room. And so it's annoying when people cherry-pick when he's relevant and what callbacks are specifically about him when, in fact, they're not. And it's like they're reducing s5-6 Rachel to Finchel, too, in a way, which is its own thing. I have seen people on the subreddit say they can't fully love Santana because of this particular action and I'm sorry, that's just bonkers. Specifically because she ruined this Finchel memory for Rachel? That's not even what the scene is about. You're getting mad at fictional character Santana Lopez because of a leap in logic you have made. At least get mad at her for the right reasons, geez, like her transphobic comment and overall behaviour in this scene. But no, it's one of those fandom things where an interpretation gets spread like wildfire and people forget what's actually in the text. It's like getting mad at Blaine for something he did in a fanfic.

And you know what Anon, I think I'm with you on being glad that moment was ruined lol. Because I find that moment so incredibly obnoxious and I think it's my top 1 worst Finchel moment, so. It's a contended spot though.

[letbarbieshavedragons]

Um no... there was PLENTY of foreshadowing since at least season two that Dany would go "mad". And she's definitely not mad, she's calculated and cunning but not mad. She had showed signs of being villainous since the beginning. Were you paying attention when she would yell about using fire and blood to get what she wants? When she burned people alive for not bowing to her? When she only "freed" slaves when it benefitted her goals to conquer. Her dark turn was obvious from the start.

right so not really sure where this came from lol, but since you actually took the time to come to my asks and you don’t seem snarky or whatever, i guess ill respond. 

I’ve never said there wasn’t any foreshadowing. I’ve said there was no character development for it or not near enough consistent or logical build-up, but that’s very different from foreshadowing. foreshadowing at this point is just a fandom buzzword. it’s vague enough that literally anything could be considered foreshadowing, especially in hindsight. so yes there is foreshadowing that Dany is a villain. there is also foreshadowing Jon and Arya and Ned and Sansa and Bran are villains as well. there’s even foreshadowing that Jojen was turned into paste and bran ate him. that word has lost all weight and meaning and it can’t (and never could) prove anything. at best foreshadowing is grounds for conjecture. not proof or a replacement for character arcs. and even then its flimsy. 

As for your other points your really cherry-picking the facts here if not just completely distorting the narrative. The Fire and Blood speech was a) a show only event and b) said out of desperation to get sanctuary so she and her people didn’t starve in the desert. she tried being polite and accomodating but they were going to leave them so in a desperate final act, she spit some (metaphorical) fire at them and it worked. so not exactly villain territory. not to mention fire and blood are her family words, of course, she used them. how many times do the starks go on about winter? or the lannisters about debts? this is hardly proof. 

As for the burning people for not bowing to her I assume you mean the Tarly’s, which is once again cherry-picking the facts. They were at war. You think Robert or Ned would have let Aerys’ supporters live if they had refused to bend the knee? What about the Umbers if Smalljon had survived the Battle of the Bastards? Rob Stark threatened to hang a man simply for implying he wouldn’t answer his call to war. Jon Snow beheaded a man for disobeying orders even after said man agreed to comply.  In ep 1, Ned Stark beheaded a man for simply being scared from his post. 

After the Battle of the Bastards, Sansa didn’t even want the Umbers family to keep their lands! In that sense Daenerys comes out more merciful seeing as she not only doesn’t take the Tarly’s lands, I don’t remember her even discussing it. and while i hate to acknowledge anything in s8, she even legitimizes Gendry and returns the Baratheon lands to him saving the house from extinction (even tho Gendry’s father nearly wiped hers to it). And while no this wasn’t done out of the kindness of her heart, it also wasn’t exactly a necessary political move and shows more graciousness than Sansa did in 6. (And I’m not trying to shit on Sansa here, i didn’t actually take issue with her decisions. just pointing out you have to hold everyone to a fair standard here) 

The Tarly’s betrayed their liege lord (to side with the usurper that murdered said liege lords and the queen) then murdered them, which by Rob’s own words is grounds for execution. Their liege lords who also happened to be Dany’s allies. If the show had any desire for consistency by s 7 (or really any narrative integrity at all) then there would have been people urging Dany not to offer any clemency in the first place. Daenerys was showing mercy by offering them a chance in the first place. Hell, she even offered them two. Bend the knee or take the black. That’s more than Robb gave. It’s probably more than Ned would have. 

With full context her offer was more: you are defeated, agree you will stop trying to kill me and I will forgive you for betraying a murdering your liege lords and my allies a and I won’t kill you in return. Hardly villain territory. 

And the “only freed slaves when it benefitted her?” is just completely and categorically false my dude. like i really shouldn’t have to explain this but your ask seems to be in good faith (and not just baiting me) so here we go. 

Dany didn’t have to free a single slave. She already had the Unsullied her plan would have worked had she freed them or not. In fact if anything she risked more by freeing them bc she had no way of knowing they would still follow her once free. But she did it anyway. She freed them because it was the right thing to do. So already thats wrong, but i’ll go on.

She gained nothing from freeing the slaves in Yunkai, in fact it was objectively an unstrategic decision, her advisors even tell her not to. the show even makes a point in saying its not the militarily strategic thing to do. she gains nothing from it but dead soldiers, potential catistropohic failure and (if she succeeds) thousands of freedmen she doesn’t really have the resources to support. And considering Yunkai even offered her money and (if i remember correctly) ships to leave them be, she’s washing all that down the drain too. So no, once again she gained nothing from attacking Yunkai, she only stood to lose. The only thing she won was the only thing she wanted, which was the freedom of those in bondage. 

And for Meereen,  I guess you could say she gained her queenship? Except she didn’t want to stay in Meereen and both the show and the books make it very clear she only does bc she’s afraid what happened in Astapor or Yunkai after she left will happen again in Meereen when she leaves, so she decides to stay long enough to transition the city into a free city, not bc she wanted to be queen of meereen. So even then its very disingenuous to say she freed the slaves in Meereen for personal gain. 

like my dude are you for cereal? at least the first two points I can understand from the standpoint of someone who is looking for dark Dany. If you are already convinced Dany is secretly a villain I can at least see how these things would stand out. But this idea that Dany freed slaves for personal gain goes beyond simply assuming the worst of her character and is just a complete distortion of the text.

I could go on about all the times the Starks have done shady or questionable stuff and no one is pointing fingers at them or about how Dany being a “secret” villain this whole time isn’t even the narrative we got (we got a fall from hero to villain further proving that at the very least even dnd thought she was a hero at the start) or that even if Dany is a “secret” villain having another badass blonde villain queen isn’t just redundant in the narrative and an overplayed trope, in general, it’s also not even a better or more subversive arc than just having her be a badass heroic dragon queen who has had to fight for every inch of her respect and power but this is already long enough and I’ve already made posts about these things 

[secondfromtheright]

Fandom Racism

I’m not active on social media. But though I don’t use it, I do have this. I’m a terrible, unreliable tumblr user and I apologise for that (it took me way too many password tries to get back on here). I’d rather have been able to post something on my AO3 to any and all of my readers but my option is here instead.

I’m not a good person for this message – I am white, and I am not American. Seek black voices on this subject, please. I’m not tagging this because it’s really just aimed to anybody who already may still follow me on here. To use, but not overstep my lone social media platform. Because I can’t say nothing. I just can’t. You’ve all been so supportive and lovely to me in response to my fics and I’d like to think you’re all as decent in life to understand there are many things that we as white people do not and cannot understand regarding racism and that we need to do better.

So, this is aimed directly to my fandom readers – white fandom readers. From a white fandom writer. Some racism in fandom that I’m aware of, and I implore you all to become aware of too, if you aren’t already.

And again, please research black and brown voices on this matter. Voices that can speak to this so much more than mine, that can give better understanding, that can correct where I’m wrong, that can fill in what I’ve missed, that can communicate pain and hurt that I cannot know.

I get ‘ship and let ship’ and all, but there are major, glaring red flags that scream both personal and structural racism, conscious and unconscious, in fandom and ship conversation that should make you stop arguing, sit up and think about the shit you’re saying or reading.

This goes ten-fold for any fandom you are involved in that has a black love interest in canon that your ship and/or your fandom dismisses.

“They don’t have chemistry.”

Old ass racist trope that is about erasing romantic roles of people of colour. It perpetuates the idea that POC are not loveable, or desirable, especially to white people and especially in relationships (rather than just sex).

Anything that talks of black male characters as “evil” or “creepy” or “untrustworthy” or “weird” or “intimidating” or “aggressive” or “there’s just something I don’t like.”

It is continuing the 400+ year old bullshit premise that black men are dangerous – the ultimate justifying-white-fear-excuse to target and kill black man, then and now, because ‘they were a threat’.

When most of the ship verses ship debate is talk of tearing down a character of colour.

If someone is so confident in their white ship, why the need to tear down and hate another character? Keep it to your ship and only your ship. If the COC is a canonical love interest, especially one that existed before you started shipping your ship, question yourself and/or those shipping.

 Black female characters criticised as “irrational” or “angry” or “manly” or “slut.” Or, consistently praised only as “badass” or “fierce” or “strong” or “sassy.”

These are all major examples of misogynoir tropes that strip black women of their humanity, boxing them into one of numerous roles that do not allow them to be multifaceted, feeling people.

 ANY negative shit about black hair, especially natural, and especially of black female characters. 

Just fucking don’t. Don’t say it, don’t encourage it, seriously side-eye anyone doing it. Whites have no idea what that experience is, nor the effects of generations of products that only appeal to white consumerism and define whiteness as the definition of ‘beauty’. It a low, racist belittling of someone.

 When a character of colour has an insulting nickname within a fandom.

It dehumanises them. Actively and purposely. That simple. If you’ve never been involved or really aware of BLM protests or movement before, you must at least now recognise the chants of “Say their name.” Someone’s name matters, especially with history of slavery. Do not remove a black character’s name because you feel they threaten your ship. It reinforces white supremacy in even the most basic of society.

Any kind of discussion or mention that hopes for or encourages violence and hurt against black characters, including rooting for their death. Especially anything with a group, anything that involves dogs, anything that involves white people in power.

It’s the history of racism, it is about maintaining a white supremacist society and it retraumatises black audiences.

 If you or a fandom member have multiple ships but not a one of them includes someone of colour.

Question that shit. Seriously. If there’s a banner on a tumblr or a YouTube with loads of videos that has a bunch of only white characters, ask yourself why. What are you watching? What are you reading? Are there leading black and brown characters, black and brown voices, in what you’re consuming?

Don’t let yourself fall into thinking white people get to decide the definition of racism. Don’t let yourself think you know everything, even if you know the full dysfunctional and dramatic history of your fandom.

Understand that words and phrasing used has a whole history, and context. All of it. Microaggressions, tropes, coded language, connotations, dog whistles. Understand that just because you may not have known the history, it is no less relevant, or prevalent in the real lives of people of colour. More so, the fact that you can go about your life ignorant to it is evidence of your – our – privilege. And on this one I’ll add, especially if you’re not American. Learn real history – both American and your own country’s part in racism and slavery. Fandoms are global – recognise who you are interacting with.

Fandoms are tricky, often toxic as shit on a multiple fronts, I get it. Not everything within fandoms with characters of colour is simplistically only about race, but a lot of it is and none of us live in a vacuum. Don’t act like we do. Everything we say and do has a whole load of history and context behind it and we don’t get to cherry-pick.

If you say (or want to say) any response to the noted conversational points that sounds like

“So I can’t have an opinion now?” “I’m not racist but…” “I know black people and they said something else.” “I don’t care about/see skin colour.” “I didn’t say anything about race.” “Why are you bringing race into it?” “It’s just hating white people.” “That’s just how the character is written.”

Stop.

And seriously challenge yourself to be better, to listen more, to question and learn the origins and hurt behind such phrasing and what you may really be putting out, even if you didn’t realise it.

Because all that instinct that makes you want to push back, that has you wanting to dismiss the criticism and shut down a conversation that makes you uncomfortable and drives you to defend yourself – that is your privilege screaming because suddenly you are not the centre of everything. White discomfort. You have to recognise that instinct, and move past it. It takes continuous work. You don’t have to be perfect on racial understanding overnight – and please don’t get so terrified at such a prospect to the point of closing up and shutting down and doing nothing – but we do all need understand more and do more than we currently think we do and are.

I’m not trying to shame people, or even guilt people (not yet, anyway). But as a white person, you – we – need to start taking more responsibility for what we involve ourselves in, and what we don’t stand against.

I don’t care how good you believe you are (and maybe you are) or how many people of colour are in your life. If you are a white, you have a privilege – we - have a privilege. And whether you seek it or not, whether you’re conscious of it or not, you – we – benefit from that privilege because it is embedded in every part of society that we live day to day. And we do so at the expense of black lives.

I encourage everyone to be as involved in the movement as possible, but if you can’t attend protests, if there are COVID 19 concerns, if you don’t have the resources to donate or be in physical presence, and if you are not in a position to call out your friends and family, please, for the love of god please, at least do it in fandom. It’s a social circle that as we know, can take up a lot of our lives and our interactions. Challenge your friends in fandom – challenge yourself, if any of those phrases are in a space in which you inhabit.

Learn.

It is not the responsibility of people of colour to educate whites who suddenly realise the extent of racism, or worse, that there’s structural racism at all. But you can educate yourself, and you need to. Read black and brown experiences, listen to black and brown activists and academics. Hell, even read white antiracist voices as well if that helps you understand. If numbers are better communicators for you, look at data, whether on wealth disparity, environmental disparity, health disparity, educational disparity, justice disparity. Listen, absorb, push past your white privilege instinct that makes you uncomfortable, be driven by empathy and compassion and instead learn.

Learn history, learn data, learn what a black family has to talk about that you don’t. Learn about white fear and white grievance and white comfort and white discomfort and why they cannot be placated to. Learn to understand many forms of racism, systemic and institutional, overt and casual, personal and interpersonal. Learn to understand what privilege looks in real life, from a missed job opportunity to fear of a whole community every time they leave the house. Learn the extreme examples as well as the subtle, daily embedded. Learn to recognise the tropes and language. Learn about collective grief and trauma. Learn the psychology of looting from generationally oppressed view. Learn about the generations of violence against non-violent protest. Learn their names.

And act.

As a white person, you – we – can never really understand, but we can do a lot to try to. And we can be part of changing things. And frankly, we have to be. Racism is a white people problem; one that projects onto people of colour.

And especially to those who consider themselves any kind of liberal, those who think they can recognise misogyny or ageism or homophobia and problematic behaviour elsewhere – you have to step up on racism. And you can’t stop at the examples of obvious lack of humanity that are impossible to miss - go deeper.

And I’m asking you to not dismiss any racist language and behaviour within fandom on the basis of “It’s just a character, it’s not real.” Media and the depiction of black and brown lives is too often the only real relation to black and brown lives that a white someone has. It is a huge part of reinforcing white supremacy in society – it always has been.

If fans of colour in your fandom are telling you something is offensive, something is hurtful, something is racist, listen to them. Allow yourself to be challenged, uncomfortable and corrected. Because Black Lives Matter.

Black Lives Matter.

[orionsangel86]

It will forever baffle me how there can be so much intelligently written material on Destiel and bi!Dean, often by people that are queer, writers, have backgrounds in television etc. and non believers will just not have it, but have nothing backing them. It makes me wonder, have you ever come across sensibly written meta or discourse from people that don’t believe bi!Dean or Destiel? Dean’s ‘boner’ scene, the mixtape, the commentary on Aaron all come to mind as things I’d love to hear explained.

Lol nope.

I would love it if someone could actually point me to any intelligent meta or analysis of any Destiel or Bi!Dean scene that concludes that Destiel/Bi!Dean is NOT a thing? Anyone? 

I actually did read some anti posts trying to disprove Destiel a while back and I pretty much laughed the whole way through it, since it was based on the same 4 arguments that we have disproved with canon evidence over and over again. The only evidence antis have against Bi!Dean and Destiel is wishy-washy at best and from earlier seasons such as Dean telling Victor and that one Vampire that “he doesn’t swing that way”.

In the later seasons, the Destiel/bi!Dean evidence is so clear that antis have resorted to screaming “PANDERING” to Andrew Dabb rather than actually trying to provide a non gay explanation.

Their arguments about the mixtape were the BEST! OMG I laughed for DAYS after reading that!

I believe it actually went something like “Destihellers keep saying that Dean gave Cas a mixtape! He DID NOT give Cas a mixtape! He gave him a tape with a mix of Zepp songs. It is NOT THE SAME THING!”

I mean, if you want me to make it clearer, this is what they sounded like, whilst claiming every variation meant a different thing:

“The mixtape”

“the mixtape for Cas”

“the tape that is a mix of Zepp Songs for Cas”

“Cas’s mixtape”

THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT THINGS CLEARLY

But yeah what interests me in fandom is peoples backgrounds, because among us meta writers several of us are writers, or have backgrounds in film/TV production, or are actually working in academia or publishing/editing/journalism. Most of the meta writers I know are people in their late 20s to 40s with full time careers and college educations. We are all intelligent people and we have all clearly come to similar conclusions.

I don’t know the backgrounds of the antis. All I know is that they are blinded by their hatred of Castiel/Destiel and our side of fandom. They can’t articulate themselves clearly, because everything they say is powered by hatred, so they resort to screaming blindly and overusing an outdated gif of Jensen on a bad day. They make up lies, and rely on fear tactics and manipulation to gather followers. They spend hours using photoshop to edit Misha/Cas out of promotional material where he is front and center. But the one thing they have never been able to do is put down an intelligent debateable argument counteracting the mountain of evidence we have for Destiel/Bi!Dean. Instead they resort to mockery and limiting our meta to overly simple examples out of context. They say all our evidence is about “Cucumber water” “Shirt colours” and “cake”, but they don’t ever see the context of these tiny examples when put alongside the rest of it, because they blatantly ignore the rest of it. They cherry pick the parts of the show they like, and ignore the rest. I honestly don’t understand why they even keep watching other than out of sheer spite tbh.

If you found a general audience viewer with no biased or knowledge of this show, and watched Destiel coded episodes with them, they would point out how they came across kinda gay. They might brush it off as a joke, since mainstream media has been using queerness as a joke in television for decades. But if you gave those people a little nudge, asked them to think about it a bit more deeply, then I bet that you could get them to see it. I did this experiment myself with my 28 year old brother. He admits that Destiel is a thing and whenever I go home to visit he occasionally asks me if they are together yet. He still teases the hell out of me for it, and makes a joke out of it, but the guy works in one of the most toxically masculine environments you can find (a prison) and therefore isn’t exactly the most switched on with these things - I’m sure the Gilette ad offended him. Ha.

It may take more effort if they are a particularly heteronormative person, or a straight dude, or a homophobe, but eventually, everyone would see it. Because it is there to be seen and discovered. We are not delusional. Even the antis SEE Destiel, they just deny it and then scream “pandering!” at the writers. It’s not about whether people see it or not anymore.

What it is about is how far they will take it. Whether it remains beneath the surface or if it will be brought to text. That is the antis biggest fear, and its why they are currently louder and angrier than they have ever been. We just have to keep on ignoring them and drowning our their voices with love and our own intelligent analysis and meta.

But if anyone does have any evidence of a solid and well thought out counteractive argument please link me, because I would love to sit down and read such a rare unicorn of a thing.

[lightmywaytodawn]

On the sleepng realm theory....

It points out some interesting things, but on the whole, I'm not finding myself on board with it.

I don't have an issue with people making far-fetched theories, and I think people are allowed freedom in expressing them. But I do feel that it also creates a bit of false hope, especially with how far spread this particular one went.

This isn't directed at anything or anyone, I just want to put my thoughts out there. Includes some ship talk.

First, things I did find interesting. One was Kairi's hoodie. The whole time I actually thought they were panda ears as I didn't look closely enough to notice the drooped shape. Whether it actually has meaning, I don't know, but the ears are indeed Chirithy-shaped.

KH3 did at its very core feels odd. But whether that’s just a case of bad writing, or some ridiculously convoluted bs-plotline going on in the background, is another matter.

I will admit they clearly put a lot of thought and effort into the theory. The dedication to write that much and find screenshots and gifs of all scenes in question must have taken a lot of time. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that over-analyzing every small detail is a good thing.

My biggest issue is on the things that they really reach for, especially regarding Kairi’s scenes. Saying that she didn’t take a bite of the paopu fruit, or that the scenes aren’t romantic-coded is cherry picking. I also have serious contention with her being labeled as “not the real Kairi”, as she already gets shafted by the writing staff enough without that. I flat out don’t like Sora and Kairi in a romantic relationship--but KH3 has made it explicitly clear that they are endgame. The signs have been there since KH1. While I do think the whole thing regarding her heart missing raises a lot of questions, I can’t bring myself to agree that they’ve gone through the same scenario x amount of times. Time loop has been done a million times before, and very, very few series have actually made it worthwhile. As convoluted as KH already is, this is one route I really don’t want it to take. Time traveling as it is is messy enough, and if Nomura really goes for time loop, then I really might quit.

The writers also seem to be writing off the fact that only Dream Eaters can appear in the Sleeping Realm. They also seem to be confusing the Datascape of KHUx with it, or mixing them to create an entirely unheard of Realm altogether. Any response I see in question to that evades really answering the question. Though by far the most reaching part might very well be the logo. I can’t see it as anything but a diagonal gradient.

The whole doc also reads from a shipper bias. Which is not something I think is particularly bad, and you can never hide your biases 100%. But when it comes to the fact that they’re very clearly downplaying Sora and Kairi scenes, while overanalyzing every Riku and Sora scene, it comes off more as a disappointment with what they were given. While I won’t defend Sora and Kairi’s relationship, since she’s off screen 95% of the time and never given a chance to actually gain natural development with him, it’s just silly to go and say that those scenes had no romantic intent. I’ve seen both the JP and Eng version, and based on cultural nuances, I don’t think those scenes were intended as friendship or parting. They were clearly wrapping up the romantic sub-plot that’s happened since KH1. Hand-holding in particular is a much bigger thing in Japan than it is in the West.

I will admit that JP->Eng translation for some scenes on Riku’s part came off with less impact. Japanese however is a very contextual language, and the same word can be translated multiple ways depending purely on context. The one that comes up in the document most is 大切な人. Essentially meaning, someone precious. For it to be translated on Hercules side as the one he loves most makes sense, because we all know Hercules and Meg’s relationship is romantic, and the West in general writes far more openly romantic than Japan does. While I didn’t like how it was translated on Riku’s side, using “important/precious person” over “true love” still would have made more sense. Again with the Elsa and Anna mirrors. The intent was familial love. I do wish they had translated the 俺は信じる、お前はあきらめない part more accurately, as it does show his faith  in Sora better.

And this brings me to the false hope part. Kingdom Hearts is, for all intents and purposes, a Japanese game made by middle-aged Japanese men, and co-owned by Disney. Even if I could argue that Riku maybe has one-sided feelings for Sora, if you expect the game devs to ever confirm something to that extent, then you’re barking up the wrong tree. And this is from the point of view for someone who has shipped them for 13 years of my life. Because yes, they have a really well developed relationship, due to the amount of focus both characters get in each game. But I knew deep down since KH1 that it would never go anywhere. I accepted it long ago. Yet now I’m seeing people gain hope from this doc that maybe it still has a canon chance, and this is what I feel is disingenuous to the fandom. I don’t want to see others get their hopes up for future installments only to end up getting hurt.

I want to be clear that I won’t stop shipping them just because my ship sunk in canon. And I won’t say I’m okay with it either. At first I shrugged it off, but it kind of hit much later on that I wasn’t really ready to see it happen. The writers of the doc seem to be dealing with escapism. Which is fine, you don’t have to accept canon, but that they or others who’ve read the theory seem to aggressively be pushing it, is what puts a bad taste in my mouth.

They also give Nomura a lot of credit for things he’s pulled out of his ass for the past 17 years to keep the series going. And I’m just personally not a fan of the whole “it was all a dream”. I feel that to say that for a game people waited so long for is a low blow to the fans. At least in DDD, the dream instances were obvious from the start, and Riku had the big glowing Dream Eater sigil on his back. It wasn’t using hidden or trick narrative--it was stupidly simple, and in plain sight. Which is what a lot of KH is, under the surface--stupidly simple. Just told in an overly convoluted, pointlessly roundabout way.

I also fail to see how anyone can take Yozora as anything but Nomura’s salt about Noctis and Versus. How his salt affected KH3 though is a topic for another time.

Either way... people are free to believe what they want, and support what they want. But I can’t in good faith tell people to have hope that Riku and Sora would ever become a canon couple. Not with my extensive experience with Japanese media.

[hamliet]

In Pablo's defence, saying "Of course she'd say that. She's his mom." seems like one of the few answers that would be relatively spoiler free. Because even though there are more in depth reasons to Leia's statement, it's still a factor and it's a factor that can be accepted by both those who support the redemption arc and those who don't.

Oh, absolutely. I know a lot of people are salty towards Pablo no matter which side of the fandom they fall on, but I don’t know how the poor guy does it. Plus, he’s entitled not to like villians like Kylo. And to be fair, while I don’t have the time to dig out individual tweets, he’s said far more things that support the idea of Kylo’s redemption (he confirmed Kylo doesn’t feel more powerful after killing Han) than not. And, importantly, he has also said (last spring?)  that he would trust Leia’s opinion over Han’s when it comes to Ben’s state (which I think we all would), so people slamming Pablo for saying that is a bit of cherry-picking. However, it is true that the “Leia’s his mom; of course she’d say that” and the “Rey is raised by sand and not a murderer” things have contexts within the real world that Pablo may not be entirely aware of–the first can be taken as sexist, and the second is psychologically ignorant–which offend people, because it’s The Internet and to be fair, within the real-life contexts in which these statements resonate for people, it’s totally legitimate for people to feel salty about those comments (the “raised by sand” comment really irritated me, to be fair). But the reality is, fans are also constantly badgering an adult who chooses to engage himself, and these comments are more along the lines of his opinions than canon facts. 

As for Leia’s determination that Ben still has light in him–yes,  her love as his mom is absolutely a factor the same as Luke’s love and affection and constant longing for his father play a role in his determination to save Vader. (The amount of questions Luke has about his father in ANH make it clear he longs for the man.) It’s a factor the same way Padme’s love for Anakin enabled her to tell Obi-wan that “there’s still good in him” even after the dude choked her and she’s dying. Neither Padme nor Luke’s comments are regarded as foolish ignorance because we know how that story ends; the only reason people think Leia’s might be is because we don’t know yet, plus again, real-world “of course his mommy would say that” type statements. Pablo may have entirely meant to imply that we should trust Leia (given his other comments, it’s entirely possible). And let’s be frank–out of Luke, Padme, and Leia, which one would most fans trust to have the most accurate reading on someone regardless of affection for them? I think the answer is obviously Leia.

Also–side rant warning!–it bothers me when people act as though love might be an impediment to Leia seeing her son. Because love is not typically presented as an impediment in the Star Wars universe–if anything, it serves as glasses that help people see the possibilities, and realize those possibilities. Love wins in Star Wars. Padme still had faith in Anakin even when her love failed to help him; her faith was not in vain. Luke’s love for his father and his father’s love for him literally take down the Emperor. Galen and Jyn’s love for each other as father and daughter help destroy the Death Star and saves the galaxy. Anyone who thinks love isn’t going to play a role in finishing off both Kylo Ren and the First Order is going to be sorely disappointed. Yeah, there will be a big space battle, but battles aren’t ultimately what saves everyone in Star Wars. Love saves the galaxy time and time again. And I personally can’t think of a way to do that without Kylo Ren becoming Ben Solo again. 

Thank you for the question!