#penny is asexual btw so that’s why she’s in lgbtq community

[neonshrike]

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[kitkatopinions]

honestly in my personal opinion, the weirdness around crwby's handling of queer characters comes back to their core sentiment of "queer people have to earn their rep," which was said by monty iirc. which is just an incredibly outdated & homophobic opinion anyways because like you pointed out in your ask, the heteronormative relationships didn't have to earn their existence. characters are assumed cishet by default, they're seen as the Standard & therefore don't have to earn their place.

queer characters & queer romances go against that heteronormative standard & have to be "earned" in the eyes of mostly cishet creators. kiersi is queer but well, she's not a point in the right direction for mkek considering her writing of nonbinary & asexual people.

it's even more disappointing to see this parroted by queer people in the fndm, that mkek are right, that we have to wait when ... why? cishets didn't have to wait for three separate heteronormative relationships in tandem.

Hey, sorry this has taken me so long to answer. My blood has been boiling over 'queer people have to earn their rep.' What a homophobic sentiment... and honestly, that really makes me think that Bumbleby was not planned from the beginning. Which of course isn't to say that MK was wrong to go with BB, but it's certainly annoying that people involved in the project are claiming it's been planned when the creator of the show was of the belief that 'queer rep has to be earned.'

Like... How? Someone please tell me how LGBTQ+ people can earn representation in media when I can't think of very many pieces of media (especially popular media) that doesn't display at least one opposite-sex relationship. I just looked through the collection of movies myself and my sisters have on our shelves, and outside of a couple of movies I don't know, every movie on our shelf but two depict opposite sex relationships (the two that don't btw are Bolt and Kung Fu Panda 1, which both include single parents, but no depiction of romantic relationships at all iirc.) I defy anyone to list one cartoon Disney movie that doesn't include a straight ship (even if it's just married parents.) How are queer people supposed to earn their fucking representation? Why are queer people thrown scraps and then told to shut up and stop complaining?

There's explicit bias in company's even like RT, who depict same-sex people, but always do it in comfortable ways or always in only small ways or always in hints. It's still homophobia, especially when it's very clear that their lack of inclusion isn't about the media just not being about any sort of romance (like Bolt or Kung Fu Panda 1 could say,) because they have relationships featured, just never LGBTQ+ relationships. RT has no problems forcing a love triangle between Jaune, Weiss, and Neptune despite none of that being believable or developed. RT has no problem introducing Sun with romantic theming for him and Blake, having them go on an explicit date, having Pyrrha in love with Jaune for who knows what reason and kissing him right before a tense fight scene to further the plot and freaking dying. RT has no problem with having 'boyfriend meets girlfriend's over protective and unnecessarily rude dad' esque jokes shoehorned into volumes 4 and 5 when it comes to Sun and Blake, or having Nora and Ren kiss in the middle of a high-stakes political rally right before a bunch of murders happen. RT has no problems making Ironwood flirt with Glynda in his first introduction, making Qrow talk about "the size of the waitress's skirt length" in like, his third scene, making Roman flirt with Cinder, making even characters like Penny and Ruby who have story plots that have nothing to do with romance or relationships talk about 'cute boys' at least once. Straight people get rep at every single turn, and yet gay people have to earn even an acknowledgement, even a passing comment.

What it is to me, really, is 'queer people have to prove we can get a profit out of their rep.' That's all I'm hearing. 'We're not ever going to do this because it's the right thing to do, we'll only do it if the pros of the money we can squeeze out of you outweigh the marketing risk of alienating homophobes who will turn off our show.' 'We'll only depict what we know is still comfortable to the casually homophobic viewers who are fine with a dash of gay here and there to appease people without 'forcing it down their throats,' or who are comfortable with seeing gay girls since that's been fetishized for straight men, but wouldn't be comfortable seeing gay men because they consider it a threat to their masculinity.' That's what I'm hearing.

It makes it even more annoying when I see fans talking about 'we should be grateful for the beautiful rep RT has given us.' NO THANKS. I'm not going to be grateful for the fact that MKEK are trying to queerbait me and other LGBTQ+ people into shutting up about the 'bmblb' song and Clover's death by trying to make us buy their fucking jackets and convincing us that Blake and Yang are already confirmed. I'm so sorry to get so heated over this. XD I'd thought I was calm, but this 'earn your rep' thing has gotten me so steamed. When have straight people ever been asked for the same? There are content creators fighting tooth and nail to be able to depict same sex relationships in their shows on bigger networks, and it really seems so very brazen of MKEK to still be holding back on confirming Blake and Yang and trying to convince us they're still champions of the LGBTQ+ community and our friends, and are selling pride merch with our favorite *non-confirmed* girls on it.

Adding onto that, the only rep we've officially gotten is girls. Ilia, Saffron and Terra, and May. And then heavily hinted Blake and Yang. The closest we've gotten for representation for men is Clover (a wink, a couple lingering looks, tweets suggesting he and Qrow will be together, only for him to be murdered,) and this picture.

This freaking nothing picture of two nameless guys with a heart shaped plant in the background of one shot in Mistral. Like, don't get me wrong, I'd like to know more about this unfashionable couple, and I'd like to know if one of them has a semblance that lets them control plants or if the heart-plant is decorative and was a gift from Sandy Hair over there... But my point is, no one should have to latch onto two rando background nameless punks and their fucking plant to be able to see themselves in media. This isn't representation for men in the LGBTQ+ community. It's honestly just tiring. I don't think I'm asking for too much to say that if companies are going to advertise 'pride,' that they commit to actually representing queer people and not just through the lens of what's comfortable to their homophobic or heteronormative audience members. May was a step in the right direction and I know that there are a lot of trans people who felt really validated seeing her in action and as a more important character during this last arc, and that the way that MKEK handled the in-universe confirmation of her being trans was respectful and well done. That's great. But it's 2021, if they're going to post 'pride merch' and claim to be for us and that they're trying to be inclusive, they need to stop queerbaiting Blake and Yang, and they also need to step out of the comfort zone of only portraying women on the LGBTQ+ spectrum. Male LGBTQ+ and non-binary and genderfluid people ought to be able to get representation too.

[queenofthecommunistcannibals]

A) I have never called anyone "queer" on a personal level or at least I don't think I have. Not unless they use it to do so. I would stop on an individual level if they did. A lot of people identify as queer. There are people who, on a personal level, have problems with the term. They don't have to use it. They don't get to take it away from everyone else. Especially when it is in the community vernacular. I may use it too liberally and I am trying to ween toward LGBTQ+, but in my actual life I have met a lot of people (myself included) who have been called "queer," "gay," and a hundred other terms who are happily retaking the word queer. In my life I have only encountered one person who requested not to be called queer because of personal experience and not because he wanted to gatekeep. Btw that guy is a trans aroflux ace and the first time I encountered the term "queer community" in an academic context was by a lesbian who liked it so much she debated replacing her other labels with it. Some people don't like being called gay, gay people still use it for themselves and their community.

You don't like queer? Cool. Don't use it. A lot of us do. By banning us from using it you are giving it back to the oppressors. And I want to point out I have been saying "queer" and "queer community" for nearly a decade. With the exception of that one guy I mentioned (who let people use it for themselves) no one but gatekeepers have tried to stop me.

B) I have not called myself gay since I realized I wasn't a lesbian 14 years ago. Read the post. I called myself "queer" and used the generally accepted term for the community. I am not part of the gay community. I am part of the larger creature of the LGBTQ+ community. Each of us has their own facet within the larger animal. There is a point where we overlap and where we help each other. That is what I said I was a part of.

I defined asexuality for you because you misused it to try to minimize what I was saying and what I have been through. You know why you did it. Don't act innocent.

C) Again, literally never called myself gay. I do not consider myself part of that letter in the Alphabet Soup specifically. Your strawman is not doing you much good. I pointed out there is overlap within the larger community.

Your argument is invalid and you are boxing shadows.

Edit: Also I notice, my dude, you are no longer disparaging that the situations are similar or that exclusionists are a specific subgroup rather than "gays who don't agree". In fact you always knew what exclusionists were because you expressly define yourself as one. And you might not be arguing my existence (at the moment) but a lot of your exclusionist friends are and I was pointing out that that was what started all this.

Edit, Edit: your argument is invalid and you know it is. Time for the No, No Can.

[image description: a can with pennies in it. The lid says "shake once and say no"]

The ace experience has so much in common with the gay/lesbian experience, bi/pan experience, etc. that we can’t not be counted in the community. We face prejudice and judgement. We go through the same growing pains. We are afraid and we want to be proud.

Exclusionism is bullshit. Exclusionists shove their fingers in their ears and refuse to acknowledge that we are far more like them than we are like actual cishet world. They just want someone to bully. That is it. The end. The queer community at large is with us. Exclusionists are bullies and sore losers.