#penny for your thoughts joris...

[esteemed-excellency]

@eddie-dearest I had to add your tags because that's exactly what I asked myself when I started thinking about the character. I didn't plan a backstory or characterisation, I started playing because the alternative history concept of the game seemed intriguing and I wanted to explore what it had to offer in terms of writing. I played a lot of storylines just to see how the plot would proceed and I was immediately hooked by the mystery (this was around 2013). Hiram's characterisation is mainly based on the choices I made in game, and he turned out to be quite a mess, but in a fun chaotic way.

The rest of the post is under the cut because it got a little long.

After some years I started thinking about what kind of character would have made those choices and I elaborated a first concept for an oc, but I never thought that much about it. Around 2017 I deleted my old mail, completely forgetting it was linked to my game account so I had to start everything again, which was kind of a relief given all the new game dynamics that were added to the early game, and this time I had the character ready. I got some of my friends into the game too and we made a group chat (The Paramount Polycule started as the chat name lol) and that was the starting point for headcanons and characterisation development.

I love history and the 19th century is particularly interesting to me in terms of societal changes, a hyphen between the ancient regime and the contemporary 20th century ideologies (with all the good and bad implications that this entails), and technological advances. The process of change and how people react and adapt to it is what really intrigues me, and it's what got me into the game in the first place, and what prompted the background for the character. Hiram is fascinated by change and he loves to keep up with the times, I don't think he ever felt left behind by history. If he feels there's something he can't understand he dives head first into it until he figures it out. He approaches challenges like puzzles or games and he's still capable of wonder, even after a good dose of corruption arc.

Speaking of corruption arcs, I'm a tragedy enjoyer, other than a chaotic shenanigans appreciator, and I like when the narrative borders on horror. Gothic fiction with its specific motifs is one of my favourite genres, and another reason I started playing the game. I especially appreciate the theme of a place being haunted by itself and its history and/or moving through history haunted by what it was/what it is/what it could be, so you can see why Fallen London is so compelling to me. I also like themes of faustian bargains and that's why my character is Like That.

In terms of general vibes and aesthetic I love late 19th and early 20th century fashion, and I wanted Hiram to have the look of some actor from the 20s/30s interpreting a late 19th century character as an excuse to mix up multiple decades of fashion. The devils are anachronistic and fashion in Fallen London is so interesting to speculate. Pre code Hollywood and and pre nazi european cinema have the perfect aesthetic for me, and I got particularly inspired by the drama of austrian operetta films, hence the Anton Walbrook and Ronal Colman faceclaims. On a more personal note, I just projected some gender as I always do when I design a character. I like earlier 19th century fashion too, and that's why I made him so dandyish.

To end the post, here's a non-comprehensive list of medias that inspired Hiram's vibes and aesthetic:

the general concept of penny dreadfuls

À Rebours by Joris-Karl Huysmans: not the protagonist, but the circling pointlessness of the plot, the aesthetic of the house, and the spiralling

whatever happens when you mix the late wave of english Romanticism with the Decadent movement

Doctor Faustus by Thomas Marlowe: that's like, thee bluebrint, and Hiram appreciates the irony

Tales from the Vienna Woods by Johann Strauss II

Delirium Waltz by Josef Strauss

Enemies to Lovers by Joshua Kyan Aalampour

Mr. Malum by The Dear Hunter: mandatory dramatic song, this is Hiram's playlist if anyone wants more music

Maskerade (1933): main faceclaim movie, the promo pics with Paula Wessely and Anton Walbrook dancing are inspo for the Quiet Deviless and Hiram (plot is extremely melodramatic if anyone is interested)

Gaslight (1940) and The Red Shoes (1948): Anton Walbrook goes insane with expressions

The Devil to Pay (1930): Ronald Colman is the other faceclaim actor, he has a funny dog in this movies, inspo for Sugarplum

The man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo (1935): just the general fancy vibes, a suitcase full of money, and the iconic moustache look

[kitkatopinions]

The ethics in RWBY are really weird. I mean, I’m not a professor of ethics and I don’t know much past what I’ve seen on Wikipedia and the Good Place (such a great show,) but it’s so weird to see a show that seems to switch between virtue ethics and consequentialism at random.

(Virtue ethics) may be identified as the one that emphasizes the virtues, or moral character, in contrast to the approach that emphasizes duties or rules (deontology) or that emphasizes the consequences of actions (consequentialism). Suppose it is obvious that someone in need should be helped. A utilitarian will point to the fact that the consequences of doing so will maximize well-being, and a virtue ethicist to the fact that helping the person would be charitable or benevolent.

Of course, it’s a lot more complicated and in-depth than just that, but I’m not going to get into specifics (again, I’m not qualified to do that lol.) But let’s look at some examples of these two ethical beliefs in RWBY.

“Stealing is wrong no matter what,” sounds like virtue ethics at play, and that’s how Blake saw things. That was one of the reasons that she left the White Fang, that was always framed as one of the many things that made it so they were villains, that had to be taken out. Blake regretted her acts of theft in her early life no matter how justified they were. The message is that stealing is always wrong even when you’re stealing from oppressors.

“Stealing is justified in circumstances where you feel you have no other choice,” sounds like consequentialism, if your actions are justified and have good consequences, they’re good. This is put into practice when the group illegally stole the airplane in Argus (although this is actually badly portrayed consequentialism, considering that they didn’t need to do that, but I think we’re intended to perceive it as necessary, but I’ll keep talking about that later.)

“Violence is wrong, even when it’s precautionary or reactionary,” sounds like virtue ethics, and once again, that’s directed towards the White Fang. Despite being oppressed for centuries, even Sienna’s more minor violence is framed as completely wrong, and the Faunus are lectured about how they need to stop committing acts of violence if they want equality. The Ace Ops fighting Team RWBY is meant to be perceived as wrong, despite the fact that Team RWBY had broken the law, proven themselves untrustworthy, and were trying to stop them and Ironwood from doing something that would save people.

“Violence is justified in circumstances where it’s precautionary or reactionary,” sounds like consequentialism. Since the White Fang is hurting others, it doesn’t matter what their goal is (Faunus rights,) it’s totally fine to rip them to shreds, throw them off moving trains, even kill, etc. Since Team RWBY thought it was wrong to move Atlas, they were perfectly justified in beating up the Ace Ops for trying to arrest them. Qrow is perfectly justified in fighting Clover for the same reason.

“You always need to be honest, no matter if you don’t know if you can trust someone or not and no matter if you have good reasons to lie,” sounds like virtue ethics. This is applied to Ozpin in the show, his lying is deemed one hundred percent wrong, full stop, no excuses. He isn’t treated with any sympathy and has to apologize, which is seriously and begrudgingly accepted. Our main characters forcing his secrets out of him is framed as right, their angry responses are framed as totally justified. The message is clear. Lying and mistrusting is wrong. Honesty and trust is right.

“Lying is understandable and even right if you think you have good reason to lie and if you think you can’t trust someone, and Ruby was right about Ironwood, therefore her lying was fine,” sounds like consequentialism. Ruby’s lying is framed as reasonable and understandable. She didn’t have to be honest because she was reacting cautiously instead, putting a virtue on the back burner because she thought being honest might hurt people and wasn’t sure if James could be trusted - as in, she acted in mistrust. Although Yang suggests this was wrong, the show quickly hastens to tell us that Ruby was very right, having Yang walk back on her statements, and having Ironwood turn evil. The message is clear. Lying and mistrusting should be done if you think it will hurt less people. Honesty and trust aren’t always good.

“It’s never okay to willingly sacrifice a life, you must do whatever you can to save everyone no matter the cost,” sounds like virtue ethics. This is the central conflict between Team RWBY and Ironwood in volume 7. Ruby and co considered it wholly wrong to sacrifice the remaining people of Mantle in order to save Atlas and the Mantle citizens already evacuated, they considered the idea unacceptable and we (the audience) are meant to believe they’re entirely right and that Ironwood is - with this action - turning into a villain. The Ace Ops are also seen as wrong for wanting to destroy the whale even though they know that Team JORY is still inside it, because despite the fact that it would save thousands upon thousands, it would result in the deaths of four people.

“You have to do what is right, even if it requires sacrifice,” sounds like consequentialism. Pyrrha goes to fight Cinder despite knowing she can’t win, which is framed as heroic and good. Jaune, Nora, and Ren leave their mission defending the non-evacuated people of Mantle in order to try and rescue Oscar. Our group of protagonists trap a city full of civilians in Salem’s direct line of fire and cause many soldiers to die so that they can try and evacuate the citizens of Mantle. The show frames this as the right choice that the team made in the pursuit of saving everyone they could, and the dead soldiers are a sacrifice that the protagonists couldn’t avoid and therefore aren’t responsible for.

“Being a good person who tries is the most important thing,” This feels like virtue ethics. This is applied to Team RWBY and Ruby particularly all throughout season eight. What really matters is that is that they’ve been trying. What really matters is that they’ve had good intentions. What really matters is they’ve stuck to their guns, stuck to their moral code. The morality of their actions is judged by who they are, what virtues they embody, and what they intended. Ruby is constantly assured by the people around her that she hasn’t really done anything wrong because she’s a believer, she’s kind, she’s brave, she’s optimistic, she’s well-intentioned... She - and we as the audience - are assured that she was still good, even if nothing she did was effective, even if nothing she did even helped people This is also applied to Robyn. She might steal from the government, start fights, and not fix the wall with her stolen resources, but she has good intentions and wants to help, so she’s a good person.

“Your intentions and effort aren’t important, what matters is what you do and if it helps people.” This feels like consequentialism. It’s obviously applied to Ironwood - It doesn’t matter that he’s trying to save Atlas and the evacuated people of Mantle, it still doesn’t excuse what he did even pre-bomb threat. Hacking Penny, shooting the councilman, shooting Oscar, all of that is treated as horrible in the narrative whether or not he’s doing it to try to save thousands upon thousands of lives. Even the things he was doing in V7 were considered not good enough because they weren’t helping enough people. But it also applies to the White Fang yet again. Sienna Kahn might’ve had good intentions (ending Faunus oppression,) but her actions are judged by the harm they do to others. Ilia might’ve had good intentions (again, ending Faunus oppression,) but her actions were considered firmly bad and she had to decide to change her ways in order to be redeemed. On top of this, let’s add Whitley to the pile. Whitley is treated dismissively and coldly by Weiss, but then when he does something good that helps people, Weiss is affectionate with him and starts treating him well. 

This is all very contradictory and weird. It doesn’t matter if you lean more towards virtue ethics or consequentialism, the story keeps waffling between the two and expects its audience to do the same. When they want Team RWBY to do something that might be considered wrong in the terms of virtue ethics (stealing, lying, using violence, etc,) they use consequentialism to justify it, but whenever they want Team RWBY to be morally superior to the people around them even if those people aren’t evil (Ironwood, Oz, Ilia,) they use virtue ethics to do that. Stories that include both as points of contention between characters, but both are framed as justifiable can exist and can be really good, but that’s not what we’re given. Stories that make it clear that they prefer one over the other can exist, but that’s not what we’re given either. RWBY is full of whiplash moments, where you have to go “Wait, wasn’t this framed as wrong just an episode ago?” and “Wait, wasn’t this framed as right and justified just an episode ago?” Because RWBY as a show doesn’t bother to believe in either of them. RWBY as a show is only concerned with saying what they can to make the protagonists look good, which is hard.

When you look at it, they’re bad at being consequentialists.

Let’s look at the first relevant consequentialist action I noted, where I used the example of stealing the Atlas ship to establish that the protagonists considered stealing justified and necessary, therefore morally sound. This was not only avoidable (Cordovin had given them the option of sending Weiss through and she could’ve contacted Winter as soon as her scroll was able to reach her,) but it caused a dangerous Grimm attack. As far as I know, no civilians were hurt. However, this was still an avoidable act of theft that caused negative consequences. Looking at them trapping Atlas is even messier. They do it to save the remaining people of Mantle, putting the people of Atlas (and the evacuated Mantle citizens) at risk so they can save the most people despite the soldiers lining up to die facing Salem and the possibility of Grimm getting in the city of Atlas and killing civilians before they can finish the evacuation. But you quickly realize that they literally can’t evacuate the people still in Mantle because they have no resources to do so. Then they start moving the remaining people of Mantle to the Crater where they won’t freeze to death (logical,) and JORY and the HH start trying to defend them (logical,) but then they don’t send Penny to move Atlas. They know that they can’t evacuate the people in Mantle to Atlas, have a temporary solution to the cold, and know they aren’t going to get more help in defending the civilians in their care and must take care of it themselves. But they continue to keep Atlas trapped there despite knowing that the consequence might be thousands dying. Looking at launching Amity and sending out the broadcast is even messier than that. The broadcast is ill-planned, sloppy, confusing, and hits several of the beats of Cinder’s broadcast, which kick started the Fall of Beacon. This could have terrible consequences in a world where the Grimm are drawn to negativity. People could panic, it could launch Vacuo (the last remaining fully functioning kingdom) into a state of emergency, it could cause people to lose all hope in the establishments or the Hunters themselves, it could make people go out looking for ‘maidens’ to help them. And no one should be able to just travel to help Atlas within a couple of days anyway, which Ruby seems to fully understand at times in how she frames things, but she also asks for help that logic says can’t come. This was something that might endanger people and cause mass panic and Grimm attacks, that didn’t actually do much good. In terms of consequentialism, this was a failure, this wasn’t the Right thing to do.

But when you look at it, they’re bad at virtue ethics too.

Of course, there’s the obvious. They lie, they mistrust, they steal, they’re violent. They point their weapons at Qrow in V6, Weiss points her weapon at Whitley, an untrained teenage civilian, Weiss throws a man in a dumpster for being anti-Faunus to Blake, Qrow punches a teenage body for lying to him about something important. But there’s also the fact that in V8, Ruby and Weiss and Blake don’t do much to help anyone. Ruby sends out her hopeful sounding message that could do very little (if logic means anything in this world,) and then sits in a mansion drinking tea, waiting for Nora to recover. Of course this is wrong from a consequentialist mind frame, the consequence of sitting around doing nothing when you can help save people is that those people might die. But from a virtue ethics standpoint... This action is selfish, maybe even cowardly. Ruby is meant to be selfless and brave, and remember that she’s the one who made it so Atlas civilians and the evacuated people of Mantle couldn’t escape, and then despite the fact that she’s a powerful fighter with a rare super power that can take out tons of Grimm at once, Ruby sits in a mansion and despairs that no one is coming to save her. Look, I’ve heard every excuse. It doesn’t matter if she’s wanted by the Atlas police. It doesn’t matter if she’s trying to take care of her friend. It doesn’t matter if she has no plan. The virtues Ruby is supposed to embody like kindness, bravery, resolve and selflessness would dictate that all of that has to take a backseat when she can save human lives.

This is a big reason why I’m so frustrated with RWBY. They keep waffling between these two conflicting ideas of what’s right and what’s wrong, and they’re failing to make our heroes properly fit into either category. They just then tell us that they fit. They always do what’s right for the most people and don’t look behind the curtain to see them fail to do just that. They always follow their virtues and don’t look behind the curtain to see them make excuses over and over for themselves while they expect everyone else to adhere to the standards they won’t reach for.

And honestly, fans do the same thing the show does, which is one reason why it’s so frustrating to talk to mega-stans that won’t recognize the main casts flaws while they refuse to see that Oz deserved better or that Ironwood wasn’t evil pre-end of volume 7. “Of course Team RWBY lied to Ironwood, they didn’t know if they could trust him!” “Whether or not Oz knew if he could trust them, he never should’ve lied to them.” They’ll say these things even sometimes in the same posts or comments and not even realize the problem. The show and the fans will use anything and any justification to pretend that Team RWBY was right and inculpable, but they’ll use anything and any justification to make anyone who opposes them - friend or foe - seem entirely in the wrong and at fault. That’s why Oz apologized to them, but they didn’t apologize back even though they treated him horribly. The show runners don’t care what Team RWBY did wrong, they’ve already jumped through all the mental hoops to pretend they were right.

Looking at Team RWBY through the lens of virtue ethics, they fail to meet a good standard, and looking at Team RWBY through the lens of consequentialism, they still fall short. And the show needs to stop acting like they’re inherently better than the people around them when they’re not. The show writers are using the excuses of consequentialism and virtue ethics whenever they think it can distract us from the fact that behind their fancy feel good words, they don’t know how to write good protagonists.

[rwdestuffs]

Volume 8 is a poor man’s Infinity War.

Think about it. The main teams in both situations (RWBYJNORQ and the Avengers/GotG) are in separate squads trying to do their own thing.

Here’s our main issues:

In Infinity War, the main teams are split up because they can’t get to one another. They didn’t have a choice in splitting up, and thus, there wasn’t an opportunity in the first place to have interactions between characters like Tony and Steve. While yes, Thor goes off on his own on his own will, it is out of necessity.

And on top of which, each squad is doing something proactive.

Team Cap is trying to get the stone out of Vision so that they can get rid of it and stop Thanos. Team Iron Man is confronting Thanos directly. Team Guardians is also trying to attack Thanos and get back Gamora before the Soul Stone location is revealed. Thor, Rocket, and Groot are trying to get a weapon that can kill Thanos. They are all effectively doing something.

And Thanos’ squad are all split up trying to retrieve the stones. And they are also proactive in trying to do so.

And in the end, it is through Thanos’ direct actions that he is able to succeed.

Now, let’s compare this to Volume 8.

In Volume 8, the only one separated from the group that wasn’t by choice was Qrow, and later Oscar. Oscar gets to come back in the last quarter of the volume, so it’s very not like Thor’s reappearance in Infinity War.

Both squads are separated by choice. They actively chose to split up. This means that character interactions that were sorely needed can’t happen. There’s no Blake interacting with Yang, there’s no Nora and Ren interactions. And the few interactions that each team does have is hollow at best because it kinda comes out of nowhere. Take Ren’s resentment at the situation that they’re in for example. It’s brought up, and then dropped. There was hardly any buildup to it, and it doesn’t even go anywhere. Or take Nora’s sudden “I need some time” thing near the end. She was the one who initiated the kiss, if anything, it should be Ren who says that he needs the time to process his feelings. Especially since his semblance is literally suppressing his emotions! It would make more sense if he needed the time to process given all that he’s been through, and what his literal soul-based superpower does. Ren needs the time to process his feelings. Not Nora.

Or heck! Take Blake’s encouragement of Ruby as another. They deliberately nerfed her character to justify her belief in Ruby’s ability as a leader and a fighter. But the for a majority of the time, RWBN is in a mansion… Not even talking about what to do or about their own relationships, they’re drinking tea. At this point in time, Team Cap has gotten a plan set in place on how to get the stone out of Vision’s head and what they need to do to make sure that it works. Team Iron Man is already en-route to take the fight to Thanos, the Guardians are off to Knowhere to keep the reality stone out of Thanos’ clutches.

This is why people kinda touted JORY’s part as being better. By virtue of actually doing something, they kinda got the better arc by default. Sure, the interactions were really bland, and the discussions of what they have going on with members of the other squad are bare-bones, the fact that they actually do something is a virtue in of itself.

Salem, on the other hand, has her hands on another of the relics, but can’t access it. Emerald and Hazel are having second thoughts about the side that they are on, and Cinder is… Just being herself.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I do like the Emerald defecting thing. I really do. But I kinda wish we spent more time on it, and that we got to see what she did to be trusted with her weapons when they got to the mansion.

Qrow, at this point, is trying to come to terms with his involvement in Clover’s death, and like… It was Clover’s own fault. He followed a clearly unlawful order, didn’t take a prison transport, and prioritized the “suddenly declared traitor” Qrow over the literal agent of Salem who was right there, and gave the three character a hard time, and only two of them are now conscious.

So, Robyn’s whole thing about him being the better person kinda feels like it comes out of nowhere, mainly because we never really got that interaction between Robyn and Clover to really have her make that conclusion.

Both stories also have a “Save the android who has the ability we want to keep out of the bad guy’s hands” thing going for them. But there’s a stark difference between the two deaths.

With Vision, his death comes at the hands of Wanda, his love interest. The person whom they both confide in each other with, and the person who he trusts with his life. So when Wanda kills him to keep the stone out of Thanos’ hands, it’s tragic. And when Thanos uses the Time Stone to undo all of that, and make her efforts all for naught, it’s even more tragic. Wanda had to see her soon-to=be-husband die twice.

But with Penny, her death comes at the hands of… Jaune. A character that she barely had any interaction with. Instead of it being Nora, the person who reassured her that the virus that was hurting her was only a “part” of her and that it didn’t define her, it was Jaune. Instead of it being Winter, the person whom she was effectively partnered with since Ciel was forgotten, it was Jaune. Instead of it being Emerald, the person who killed her the first time, it’s fucking Jaune. A character whose most significant interaction with her was boosting her aura so that she could fight off the virus.

Now, both endings are kinda similar too.

Except where Infinity War’s ending was done and it was blatantly clear that it was because everyone was separated and that it was because Thanos had basically already won, and the fact that it was also because the war against Thanos wasn’t over yet, this ending makes it clear that the war for Atlas was lost. And while the show does also show us that the war for Remnant is far from over, the way they did it makes it feel as if they wanted to emulate Infinity War, but had no real idea as to what made it work in the first place. It’s a lot like a lot of the other things they tried to emulate. Like the “Introduce your character by having them stop a robbery” thing. They know it works, but they don’t know why or how it works.

This overall helplessness and the idea that the bad guys win sometimes was done better in Infinity War because they knew what they were doing. And yes. I do acknowledge that it’s unfair to compare a multi-million dollar movie that was ten years in the making to a single volume that was likely thrown together with the hotpot of notes that were left behind, and that Infinity War also had more than a bunch of underpaid animators working on it, but still! It feels like they had this whole thing worked out in Volume 7. Penny had the maiden powers, Winter was in conflict with what Ironwood was doing, Qrow was feeling guilt at not being able to save Clover, the main teams had to look for Oscar again, there was a set up for team work that needed to be done, it felt like a lot of things were thrown in for the sake of the plot, only for it to not be capitalized on in later moments.

Ruby’s squad wanted to save everyone, and didn’t have a plan until Oz decided to show up again and tell them what the relic could do. At least Jaune’s squad had a plan. And given how his last few plans worked out, it’s a miracle that it actually worked.

The separate hero squads in Infinity War all also had plans of their own. Yeah, they all failed, but at least they actually had a plan. With this, only one team had a plan, and it got derailed because Oscar got kidnapped by a grimm that can only break aura in a single hit after a few in-universe minutes of being petted by Salem.

This volume tried to be Infinity War, but ended up being Dawn of Justice… And we already had that volume in the form of Volume 4. This show needs to stop trying to juggle too many things at once and start focusing on one big thing, and also needs to close up the things that they haven’t really closed up.

[maestroderomanus]

Looking at the wedding band around his companions finger.

*feels the eyes on him and turns to look at Jory, placing a speedy kiss on his nose* Penny for your thoughts?