#or let cinder go free before the beacon vault is found or opened

[bestworstcase]

Your points about Salem and Cinder possibly being a fucked up mother/daughter relationship also puts her constant parallels with Ironwood and Winter in V8 into a very different light as well.

Ironwood and Salem, in their own dark and twisted way as a result of their culture/their circumstances loving the one person they consider to be their daughter, but differing ultimately in regards to what they chose to do about it.

Ironwood deciding that his own selfish desires and ideology mattered more than even the one woman he cared for more than most, while Salem basically dropping and twisting her ideals into a pretzel to help the one person she considers the closest thing to a replacement daughter for her dead daughters with Ozma.

Winter, thinking the world of Ironwood only to ultimately have to oppose him due to his betrayal of her and everyone else, vs Cinder thinking Salem is just Madame 2.0 due to Salem constantly stamping all over her trauma buttons by poor decisions and abusive actions born of her own trauma even as Salem, in her own fucked up way, is willing to do anything for Cinder if she truly asks for it.

It also frankly explains rather well why Cinder is so important in Salem's plan in a way that I haven't been able to pin down without that as a consideration. Cinder thinks it's because she's got some fancy storybook destiny that she needs to prove that she "deserves", and the audience being led on a red herring to think that it's only going to lead to her being discarded once Salem has no more use for her. When in reality it's because (again in her own fucked up way) Salem wants her surrogate daughter to get what she wants in her life (mixed with fighting a rebellion against the gods) because Salem knows exactly how Cinder feels about having her trust broken beyond repair and demonized by others.

And all of this occurring in the story arc where an overarching theme is of multiple parents (Dr. Polendina and Penny, Tai and Summer and Ruby Rose/Yang, etc.) being deeply flawed people who are willing to do anything and everything for the sake of their daughters.

Cinder.exe will just end up suffering a mental bluescreen when Salem ends up showing this in the most undeniable way possible, because it's so opposite to everything she understands about the world.

:)

give 8.4-5 (<- fault + amity) a watch with this reading in mind sometime. bc cinder’s relationship with salem and penny’s with pietro are directly compared, in a really interesting way:

PENNY: Why are you doing this? Why serve someone like Salem? CINDER: I don’t serve anyone—and neither would you, if you weren’t built that way! PENNY: …That is not… [She glances down, making eye contact with Pietro.] I choose to fight, for people who care about me.

<- amity is a really fraught place for penny to be confronted with this, both because it’s where cinder orchestrated her being ripped to shreds a year ago and because in order to get the comms satellite launched, penny had to let her dad remote into her system and literally use her body like a puppet and it is painfully obvious that she did not feel comfortable with that.

so… for cinder to come here and draw an implicit equivalence between salem and pietro and insinuate that penny is not free, that truly does get under penny’s skin. which i think is something that often gets overlooked, because it’s layered under the more obvious fact that cinder really doesn’t understand who or what penny is at all; but like, penny hesitates. it takes her a moment to figure out how to articulate that’s not true because there is a kernel of truth to cinder’s point. 

penny was built to be ironwood’s weapon. his perfect super-soldier. and now she that she’s defied him to do what she thinks is right, half the people she cares about have told her that she’s being evil and selfish and it’s her fault if everyone dies. and the other half told her she needs to go to amity and stay there and not help anybody, and she feels like a tool, she feels like she has a million things she’s supposed to do and none of them are what she wants to do. so she has all these mixed-up feelings about… what she was built for and what she chooses to be.

and like. in 8.4:

CINDER: I… I want to search for the winter maiden. I think that— SALEM: Did you hear that, my pet? She thinks; she wants. As if she’s done something to warrant me caring about either of those things.  CINDER: We’re just sitting and waiting. Without the maiden, the vault means nothing. Let me claim it for you.  SALEM: I will tell you when and where you are needed. CINDER: But your grace— [The Hound lunges around to snarl at her.] SALEM: I would like to think I have shown a great deal of patience over my many years walking Remnant, but I do hate repeating myself. You will remain here. Is that clear? CINDER: [lying] …Yes. Yes, of course. Without you. I am nothing.

vs 8.5:

PENNY: I can fix this. […] Our message is only a few minutes long. I can try to hold Amity in place for— PIETRO: Absolutely not! You’re in no condition to do something like this. Even just the temperature out there could… PENNY: It is our only option.  MARIA: She’s right, Pietro. We have to remember the big picture— PIETRO: I don’t care about the big picture! I care about my daughter! I lost you before; are you asking me to go through that again? No. No, I want the chance to watch you live your life.  PENNY: But, dad, I am trying to. PIETRO: …Right.

<- literally. literally the exact same argument. not just in terms of what the conflict is but the structure of the dialogue is identical. the interrupted statement of intention; the practical reasoning shot down; “but, your grace” vs “but, dad”—the difference is that where salem is masking, pietro wears his heart on his sleeve, and that allows him and penny to come to an understanding that she is going to do this and he’s going to sit in his fear and support her. whereas salem gets the false capitulation and false security. 

it’s pretty in-your-face (<- which i think supports the interpretation of salem’s motive being protectiveness twisting through her emotional walls) and it’s an interesting parallel to set up given that salem does, in the end, come to a similar resolution to step back and let cinder take risks. it telegraphs the possibility of constructive change, a choice to accept the fear instead of trying to force cinder into a position where the fear doesn’t exist. 

it’s also just darkly funny in a way. cinder kills penny twice and is directly the culprit for pietro’s intense terror of losing penny, and salem feels that same terror for cinder. mirrors. 

but yeah with ironwood and winter too, “i’ve chased a lot of shadows over the years, always expecting betrayal, but never once did i think it would ever come from you” vs “you chose to disobey my specific instructions, just to fail again. and… i’ve realized it’s all my fault.” and, “consider this my last order: step aside” vs “here i am holding you back, instead of lifting you up.” 

salem if nothing else takes cinder’s betrayal as a reason to reevaluate her own actions and consider what she did that gave cinder cause to disobey her, where ironwood is by this point completely disconnected from the reality that loyalty is a two-way street. 

and there’s something too in salem choosing not to stop at “it’s my fault” but fully articulate that she understands why cinder did what she did; it’s of a piece with the way she responds to cinder in 8.14, a conscious reversal of “she thinks, she wants, as if she’s done something to warrant me caring”—she does care, and she has always cared, and it shows in how she speaks to cinder when she’s not trying to prove she doesn’t care.

like. salem chose to put her trust in cinder—an enormous degree of trust, over and over again—without having any illusions about what sort of person cinder is. she knows cinder is singularly focused on what cinder wants. she’s unfazed by the disobedience because she knows she prevented cinder from getting what she wanted. whereas ironwood trusted winter because he molded her so well into the perfect lieutenant that he never imagined she could break from him, because he never understood there was more to her than the surface he sculpted. 

[bridgyrose]

AU:Cinder ran away from everything and actually found religon, finding it helpful as it provided her with proper guidance and the feeling she was always loved, becoming a priestess.

The issue is when some characters stumble upon her church and are SO weirded out by her having changed so much.

Cinder smiled a bit as she heard footsteps walking down the halls of her church. Most of the other priestesses were off at the nearby village, so she knew it wasnt any of them entering. She made her way to the main hall, smiling as she opened her arms to greet the newcomer. “Welcome to the Mother’s church. I am Sister Fall-” 

“Cinder? Is that… really you?” 

Cinder hesitated for a moment as she heard the familiar voice. Her smile dropped as she finally noticed a figure with a red hood, sighing and drooping. “Oh great… its you.” 

Ruby slowly walked closer, putting her hand on her scythe in case Cinder was ready to fight. “I… I thought you were dead. Yang didnt see you in the vault-” 

“Yeah, yeah, but here I am, alive.” Cinder noticed Ruby’s movement to her weapon and rolled her eyes. “You know weapons arent allowed in a church, right?” 

Ruby paused for a moment before moving her hand away. “And I’m pretty sure you’re not supposed to fight or kill in a church either.” 

Cinder shrugged and turned around, heading out of the main chapel. “Probably not. But I dont plan to find out. Would you like some tea? I’m sure you’ve been traveling for a while.” 

For a moment, Ruby was caught off guard. Cinder didnt seem to have the same anger or resentment. And even now, she was willinging keeping her back turned to her without an attempt of an attack. The only thing Ruby could think of was that this had to be a trap. Slowly and cautiously, she followed Cinder. “A-actually, I’d prefer coffee please.” 

Cinder kept walking, only giving a single word response. “Alright.” 

Ruby stayed close to Cinder, following behind her and into the monastery behind the chapel. She looked around at the stone hallways, almost expecting to see blood or scorch marks or at least something that showed Cinder shouldn’t belong. After several minutes of silence and no proof that Cinder attacked this church, Ruby finally snapped. “Alright, why are you here?” 

“I’m… not sure I understand what you mean.” 

“The last time I saw you, you were ready to kill me and the rest of my friends on the spot. And yet, here you are, living in a church with no sign on any sort of fight. Why?” 

Cinder stopped for a moment, mulling over Ruby’s questions. “I was brought here.” 

“What do you mean you were brought here?” 

“I mean exactly that.” Cinder started walking again, turning off to a small room she called her own and started boiling some water. “After I woke up at the bottom of the vault in Haven, I decided I had enough of all of that and decided to find a new life. I ran into a priestess that I… borrowed… a few clothes and money from before stumbling across this church.” She sat down and looked towards Ruby, using her bandaged grimm hand to offer Ruby a seat. “Before I knew it, I was offered a place here.” 

Ruby sat down to listen to Cinder, still not quite believing her. “And Salem… you’re just… done with her?” 

“Honestly, I’m still not sure. This is the church of the mother grimm.” Cinder leaned back in her chair and sighed. “And everything these priestesses speak of sound like her. But for now, I’m content right here. I… actually feel like I have a place I belong now.” 

Ruby hesitated as she heard those words come from Cinder, feeling like there had to be some sort of catch to all of this. “So… you’re… not going to try to steal the maiden powers anymore?” 

“Why would I? I’ve spent the last two years here getting guidance from a few of the priestesses, feeling like I belong to something better, I’m now finally… free.” Cinder let a small smile show, finally feeling like herself. 

Ruby slowly got up, not entirely sure how she felt about this Cinder. After watching Beacon fall, Haven be attacked, Atlas abandon Remnant, and Mantle fall… seeing Cinder be a peace was… for a lack of better term, weird. “You know, I really should get going-” 

“Are you sure? We have an extra room for travelers to use for a night. It’ll be better than sleeping on the ground all the time.” 

Ruby nodded slowly and started walking out, heading back to the main chapel. “I’m… just going to make my way to the next town over.” 

Cinder shrugged as she watched Ruby walk off, getting up as her kettle started to whistle from the steam. “More tea for me then.” 

[catgirlalchemist]

Known by Her Words

A bird is known by its song, a woman by her words.

Team RWBY and their allies have finally arrived in Atlas—or Mantle, at least—but Yang has been keeping a secret since Haven. Hiding Raven's identity as the Spring Maiden is burning her up inside, and Blake doesn't even know she finally found Raven after her years of searching. Might as well tell two stories about one bird, right?

On AO3 here.

Rating: General Audiences

Relationships: Blake Belladonna/Yang Xiao Long, Raven Branwen & Yang Xiao Long

Words: 1461

It was the first moment Blake and Yang had had to themselves since the hectic arrival in Atlas. Qrow had gone to try and get through to General Ironwood again, Weiss was trying to track down her sister Winter and Ruby had gone with her, Oscar said he was going to rest in one of the other rooms of the apartment they were renting, and Jaune, Nora, and Ren had volunteered to go grocery shopping. Yang had briefly thought of asking Blake if she wanted to go explore more of Mantle, the apartment was much smaller than the house they'd been staying in in Mistral and they'd barely gotten off the cramped Manta. But Blake had tensed up as soon as they disembarked, and the soldiers who finally cleared them to enter the under-city had been not at all subtle about what they thought of Faunus. So instead, Yang had grabbed Blake's hand and said she wanted to tell her something important.

Now they were sitting next to each other on one of the beds in the room Ruby had claimed for their team. Best to just rip the bandage off, so Yang started talking with no preamble. "Back at Beacon, I told you about my mother, and how I was still looking for her. Well… I found her. It wasn't exactly a heartwarming reunion. But now I know why she left me, at least."

Blake put her hand on Yang's shoulder. "Yang, I'm sorry."

Yang shook her head firmly, but reached across her body with her left hand to place it on top of Blake's, then dropped their joined hands into her lap. "Not your fault. But there's more. It turns out she's been watching me for a long time. Maybe all my life? She didn't reveal herself until Mountain Glenn, though. I lost that fight against Torchwick's lackey. Really badly, actually. But I regained consciousness just in time to see her. Leaving again. Her Semblance is that she can make portals to people she's bonded with. I don't know how she knew I was in danger, but she told Qrow that it was her one kindness, and I shouldn't expect her to save me again."

"That's… not very kind."

"Yeah, she's got some unusual ideas on the subject. Anyway, when I was back home in Patch, and… recovering…" Blake's eyes flicked down to Yang's prosthetic, and Yang squeezed her hand in a way she hoped conveyed blamelessness before continuing, "my dad explained how her Semblance worked, and Qrow had given me some tips on how to track her down in Anima. So I figured that if I found her, I could get her to open a portal to Qrow, and that would lead me to Ruby. Finding her, uh, didn't go well. She'd kidnapped Weiss, she leads a tribe of murderous bandits, and she tried to get me to stay with the tribe. By the way? Qrow definitely never told me and Ruby that he originally went to Beacon to learn how to kill Hunters. Would have been nice to learn that before my asshole mom dropped it on me! Anyway, she also told me and Weiss about Salem and magic and how she and Qrow were turned into birds by Oz. I do trust Qrow's version, that they chose that, over hers, but it's another thing I wish I'd learned from him first. It sounds like he didn't even tell Ruby until he had to, and she's always been closer to him than me." Yang frowned. Qrow taking after Ozpin was a whole other issue, and she really couldn't deal with that and Raven all at once. But Blake was listening intently to her for this, so maybe she could talk about Qrow with her later. She shook her head slightly and continued. "Finally she gave up on trying to convince me to stay and opened a portal to Qrow and Ruby. The only things I got out of the conversation was her advice to question everything, and the reason why she left me: she's scared. She's terrified of Salem, and she's selfish. She'd rather keep herself safe and tell herself it's about survival and strength, no matter how many other people she harms in the process. I don't trust Ozpin very much anymore, especially after what Jinn showed us. But I trust Ruby, so I'm in this until the end. And I finally got my answers." Yang's prosthetic arm was shaking again, but with Blake she didn't feel like she had to hide it.

"I'm so sorry Yang. That sounds like it was awful."

"Oh, I haven't even gotten to the good part yet." Yang hesitated. But this was what she'd wanted to tell Blake this whole conversation, and carrying the truth alone was eating her up inside. "I haven't told anyone about this. I'm not even sure exactly why. But I don't want to tell Uncle Qrow, and Ruby won't get it and she'll tell him. But I can't hold this on my own anymore, and I want you to know." Her hand was shaking harder now.

Blake reached over with her free hand to grab both of Yang's, and Yang felt the shaking begin to cease.

Yang took a deep breath, and finally began. "Okay. When I came back from the vault under Haven, with the relic, Qrow asked me what happened. And I said that Cinder was gone, Vernal— Raven's protégé, I think? Second-in-command? Daughter more than me? Anyway, she was dead. And that was true. But then when he asked about Raven, I said she was gone. I think he and Oz and everyone assumed that Vernal was the Spring Maiden, and so now the powers have moved on. I let them think that. But Vernal wasn't the Spring Maiden. Raven was."

Blake gasped, but Yang hurried on with her story. If she didn't say this now she'd never be able to. "I couldn't have fought her. I didn't even have my prosthetic, I had to leave it upstairs. She let me take the relic, because I told her that if she had it, Salem would never stop hunting her. But she could let Salem hunt me instead. I calculated that she was cowardly enough to let me put myself in danger rather than risk herself, and I was right. And I figured out how she became the Spring Maiden, too. Vernal was never Spring, but another girl was, and she ran away to the Branwen tribe overwhelmed and terrified, and my mother murdered her. She must have loved and trusted Raven a lot, I think. And Raven tried to kill the person she used to be, too. It would almost be easier if she'd succeeded, if she was just… unrepentantly evil. But she's not! I could see it all over her face! She knows she's wrong and she keeps doing this anyway and I don't understand why! And I made my mom cry and apologize but that doesn't fix anything. And then she left, and I was alone in the vault." Yang flung herself back on the bed, pulling her left arm free to cover her eyes. "She just keeps leaving me."

Blake carefully lay back on the bed with her, gently guiding Yang into turning around so that their heads were next to each other on the pillow instead of almost dangling off the side of the bed, and she didn't let go of Yang's right hand for a second. And for a moment Yang was overwhelmed with the thought that she'd never love anyone else the way she did Blake. She'd been feeling like that a lot lately.

"Raven doesn't deserve to have you as her daughter. You don’t have to call her your mom if you don’t want to. You had a mom already. I'm sorry that Summer isn't still here for you, and I wish I could have met her, but I'm glad she was your mom. But... I also know how important your search for Raven has been to you for most of your life, and I can tell how important she still is, and if you want to keep trying with her despite everything I promise I'll be there for you.” Blake was staring into Yang's eyes, and Yang could feel the sincerity and… love? that Blake was clearly intentionally projecting.

That was the final straw. Yang could feel her face heating up and her eyes getting wet, and she didn't even try to hold it back, instead curling up to bury her face in Blake's side and let herself cry. Finally being able to talk about this had been exhausting, and the last thing she felt before falling asleep was Blake gently stroking her hair.

[livestosave]

brokenclockwork‌:

The gunshot rang out like a victory canon–like salvation– and Ozpin opened his eyes just in time to see Cinder hit her knees. For a moment, his brain, which had already accepted death, couldn’t understand how this was possible. 

Then, as he heard familiar footsteps approaching it all clicked into place. 

“James.” The name came out as little more than an exhale, and held more emotions than he thought he had names for. He watched the woman fall, and as the sparks faded from her skin, he found he could breath again. It seemed death might just have to wait for him. 

Carefully- and painfully- he shifted to grab the ice shard from his leg and ripped it free, before taking the offered cane. Given the situation- and the fact that James was the only one here- he didn’t bother to try and swallow the grimace or groan of pain as he forced himself back to his feet. 

“You can…commence with the…many ways you were right, the moment…we both make it out of here alive.” The words were highlighted with the faintest smile, as he used the back of his sleeve to wipe soot from his face. 

         Singed clothes and ash-streaked flesh didn’t really standout in Beacon’s vault as much as James would have liked.  Ash-streaked metal...a bit more so.  But the relief in Ozpin’s eyes - the hope - burned like a flare, and it was damn near impossible to even remember he had prosthetics when Oz was looking at him like that.

         “You said it, not me, Oz,” he returned, offering a metal arm to help stabilize his friend.  Even as he did so, however, he looked around the vault, letting out a careful breath.  They were going to have to ride the elevator up, and...pray it stayed intact.

         “Come on, then.  We need to get moving.” Before one or both of them reached their limit...James could probably carry Ozpin if he had to, but...he was still afraid of dropping him.  Especially given his earlier excitement in his shuttle.