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no-reply95 · 3 years

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So I listened to the Something About the Beatles (SATB) latest podcast today, titled “Dear Friend” with the topic of conversation John and Paul’s relationship in the 1970s. So I was thinking that this would be great because I feel like the primary things talked about when the John/Paul 1970s dynamic is discussed is Lennon Remembers, How Do You Sleep and the PlayBoy interview, maybe they’ll throw in the Lost Weekend for balance if they’re feeling so inclined... I’m obviously exaggerating here but... Firstly, before I start my rant, SATB is a good podcast, they usually have great guests (Erin Torkelson Weber the MVP of course), cover interesting topics and Robert Rodriguez is a good host who’s good at challenging things in the story that don’t ring true.

However, I feel like throughout the Beatles active years and into the post break-up years there’s a narrative that has been established that so many people are wedded to, to the point that it’s part of the orthodoxy of the band. In my opinion the narrative is that from first meeting up until the moment that John died Paul was always doing everything to be John’s BFF, he was always trying to be closest to John, no matter what John said or did, Paul would always be the one to try and mend fences and throughout the 70s he was doing whatever he could to end up back working with John. I don’t think this narrative is completely wrong but I think it’s uneven mainly because, in all this, Paul’s importance to John is completely glossed over and John’s manoeuvring to ensure that he was the most important person in Paul’s life is completely missed. So, I just want to highlight some of the instances off the top of my head where I feel that John showed how much he needed to be prioritised in Paul’s life and how much he wanted to mend fences post break-up, that I feel don’t get talked about often enough:

1) John’s competition with Jim McCartney: There’s a lot of stock put into the John-Paul-Stu triangle but that obscures a weird triangle that, maybe Paul wasn’t even aware of, but I think definitely existed which is John-Paul-Jim. By all accounts Jim didn’t want John around and was against John and Paul’s friendship. Jim had a lot of influence over Paul and had a lot of sway as his sole parent once Mary died and I think John was resentful of that. We all know about the ultimatum John gave Paul when he took the job (that Jim implored him to get) which jeopardised his commitment to the band. In John’s eyes and own words, Paul choosing to quit his job to commit fully to the band was Paul choosing John over his dad. No one (in books I’ve only seen Joshua Wolf Shenk discuss this) discusses how Jim was effectively John’s Stu, someone that obstructed his closeness and ability to influence Paul to the point that over a decade later, post break up, John saw Paul focusing on the band as a victory over his dad. John had a jealously of Paul’s closeness and prioritisation of his family that would rear its head further down the road but, by and large, I rarely see this discussed.

2) John’s jealousy of Paul’s other close friendships: On this front, we hear ad nauseam, about Paul’s jealousy of Stu, which is fine because, even without Paul acknowledging it, it’s obvious from space that Paul was jealous of Stu’s closeness to John but we never hear about John’s jealousy of Paul’s other close friendships. All the Beatles were close to Mal Evans but I think Paul was especially close to him (he was the first Beatle to befriend Mal, Mal lived with him at Cavendish for some time, Mal helped Paul write some songs etc.) which got to John. In John’s own words when discussing Magical Mystery Tour he was “choked” when he found out that Paul had come up with the idea with Mal and Mal’s widow has said that Yoko told her that John had told her (whew Chinese whispers time) that he was jealous of Mal’s friendship with Paul... Then there’s Tara Browne, it’s interesting that despite Tara apparently being really friendly and outgoing John never took to him. Maybe it was because Tara was upper class. Maybe it was because after pestering him for months, Paul chose to do LSD with Tara instead of with John and the rest of the band. Maybe it was because Paul invited Tara up to Liverpool, right after Christmas, to hang out with his family resulting in the infamous moped crash. If I put my tin foil hat on, in “A Day in the Life” when John’s reaction to the death of a man in a car crash is “to laugh” is that meaningful? The song is thought to reference Tara but does that passage give us a glimpse into how John saw Tara? If he’s laughing about Tara dying then it sounds like he really didn’t like him, possibly due to his close friendship with Paul.

3) John’s resentment of Paul’s romantic partners: So this one is interesting... There are quite a few examples to walk through so here goes. We have the incident in Hamburg where Paul is in bed with a woman and John (in the aftermath of Stu’s death and probably high on prellies) comes charging in attacking the girl, cutting up her clothes and basically scares her out of the room, maybe that was just the prellies but there seems to be too much of a pattern to ignore. Then there’s Jane of course, we don’t know a ton about John’s interactions with Jane over the years but it’s interesting that he makes a terrible first impression with her (asking her to describe how girls masturbate) and it seems that their relationship is cordial at best going forward (note how Jane and Paul never go on holiday alone with John and Cynthia in the same way George and Ringo did with their respective partners). Peggy Lipton also tells the story about how when she came to hang out with Paul in 1965, John was really rude to her out of nowhere and asked “what she was doing there” and she seemed to think that John couldn’t understand why Paul wanted to take her to dinner if all he was going to do was fuck her. Then, there’s Linda... John consistently gives interviews in the early 70s when he talks about how in a few years Paul will wake up and leave Linda, according to Ray Connolly John couldn’t believe that Paul was staying faithful to Linda and then there’s other weird occurrences in that late 60s/early 70s period. There’s the fan who claims seeing John about to hit a pregnant Linda before Paul stepped in, there’s John rushing to get married as soon as Paul does (8 days later I think which is WILD to me), there’s John describing Paul’s wedding as a “funeral” in ‘71... What does all this tell us? That John was too busy replacing Paul with Yoko to care about Paul anymore? In my book, it’s John’s fears being realised that Paul would always prioritise his family over him when push came to shove, in John’s mind he had won when he was competing with Jim for Paul but once Linda came into the picture and gave Paul the family he always wanted, I think in John’s mind, it was game over. Maybe if Paul had divorced Linda in the 70s (like John predicted) they would have worked together more, we’ll never know, but in a similar way to Yoko, Linda was a wedge in John’s relationship to Paul.

4) John’s attempts post break-up to reach out to Paul: We hear a lot about Paul reaching out to John in the 70s and not engaging with the feuding anymore, it’s Paul that decides not to respond in kind to HDYS, it’s Paul that invites John to the Venus and Mars sessions, it’s Paul going to the Dakota to see/try to see John, it’s always Paul seemingly who misses John and wants to reestablish their relationship. However, according to May Pang, John was happy to do Bangladesh if Paul was doing it too. According to Ray Connolly, John gave him a letter to give to Paul, in the hopes that Paul would call him. According to Paul and other people involved in the One to One concert, John asked Paul to appear with him during his performance in ‘72. And in the face of the backlash from HDYS, John’s the one going around calling Paul his best friend ,other than Yoko, and sending him Beatles bootlegs for Christmas.

All this is to say that John and Paul did not have this one sided relationship where only Paul cared and wanted them to repair things or where only Paul was looking to manoeuvre a situation so he was closest to John, John also wanted to be the closest person in Paul’s life, he was jealously protective of their partnership (see his angry reaction to Paul not coming to him and only him to help with Eleanor Rigby) he also seemed to fear losing Paul to his family which may have happened in his mind, who knows. Because John’s most famous post Beatles interviews have him bashing Paul and Paul’s had 40 years to talk about how much he loved John, there’s this view that Paul loved John more than John loved Paul or that John loved Paul until Yoko came in the picture, at which point Paul was no longer relevant. If Paul meant nothing to John anymore, why did he even bother writing HDYS, if he was so tuned out he wouldn’t have been bothered by Ram, none of the critics were so why was John all over that album more than a Paul is Dead truther?! Why did Yoko block Paul’s calls to John, they were happy to hang out with Ringo, what was so threatening about Paul? Why, according to Robert Rosen, were John’s diaries full of his obsessions about Paul?? We’ll never know a lot of the answers to these questions but I would love it if more podcasts even acknowledged that these questions exist and acknowledged that Paul was such a huge part of John’s life till his dying day: “we have our ups and downs but I would do anything for Paul and I think he would do anything for me” John Lennon December 8 1980.

Apologies for the rant it seems listening to Beatles podcasts always seems to set me off! But SATB is a good podcast, just feel that there are so many interesting conversations that get missed in favour of the usual narrative time and time again, so close but no cigar!

Thanks to @onesweetdreampodcast and @anotherkindofmindpod for being the only podcast I’ve heard to date brave enough to discuss these questions, I think doing that will give us a much better understanding of the Beatles and how their story unfolded.

By the way most of what I referenced above can be found in @amoralto incredible blog, have fun!

#the beatles #john lennon #paul mccartney #john and paul #something about the beatles #dear friend #jealous guy #complex relationships #thoughts #my rants

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myrandom-fandomlife · 4 years

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Hello! I'm the anon from the 4 part ask that you answered earlier! I saw your post about the different "eras" of DNF and I would like to share some of my opinions since I've been in the fandom since March of last year, so maybe I can write my own analysis and briefly explain what happened during these times (and hopefully someone will find enjoyment in reading this)!

So the first era was probably the most "baity" period where every interaction between Dream and George with slight romantic undertones was pure bait. From Dream placing romantic music in the background, to the small texts on screen that would read "arguing like a married couple" and even proclaiming his love to George any second he could, it was obvious that it was a means to garner a reaction and moments that could be used in compilations, edits, videos, etc. Dream addressed George just the same as he currently does Sapnap or Bad: Dude, Bro, etc, and when they weren't attempting to bait, for example on streams, things were chill, no tension, just two bros hanging out in minecraft.

LOVE OR HOST ERA. The catalyst in DNF's relationship, in my humble opinion. Now, where do I begin? So, LOH was definitely a time that I believe Dream became aware of his feelings towards George (platonic or romantic, I can't be sure) and his fear of losing him. Before/During George's LOH, we got Dream saying some interesting things, the most notable one "George is the only man I can see myself dating". Now, I'm pretty sure this was meant as bait, but how he reacted prior to LOH, was very telling. Dream would avoid George like the plague in every situation that didn't require them to interact. Twitter? Only one mention (and that was literally him tagging George in Andrea's post in spite). Stream? That I can remember he didn't join much during this time, nor did he stream that often. During MCC, the DT was separated in different teams, Sapnap & George together and Dream alone. Now Sapnap DID pop off. He was doing amazing. And Dream complimented him and his team quite a lot. But what about George? I believe he mentioned him ONCE. This was the first time we see Dream jealous in regards to George, and the lack of content and interactions between these two made many believe DNF was dead and abandon the ship all together.

QUACKITY AND KARL. Now there is a lot that happened in between LOH Arc and the friendship between the DT with Karl and Quackity. Dream and George seemed to have solved whatever occured between them, and things were tranquil. We got a few baity moments here and there, but we also started to get the start of the infamous "name-truthing", the soft voices and other subtle moments. Now, during this time George, Dream and Sapnap started developing their friendship with Quackity and Karl, George in particular started getting closer with them and spending LOTS of time with them, so much so that we got more G/K/Q content than we did DT content. And we get Jealous Dream 2.0., only difference from the other occurence of jealously? He addressed it publicly, admitted that he was frustrated and physically affected by the lack of attention from the british man. He confronted George while he was streaming, with an audience of 50k+ viewers. He was desperate.

Things were pretty calm after that, the more intimate and subtle moments between the two became more and more apparent and began to outweight the baity moments. Quackity/George/Karl continued to blossom their friendship, and DNF was slowly becoming a topic to tease George and Dream (I can only compare their teasing to that of middle schoolers when their friends had a crush). We can compare this teasing to that of Skephalo, the difference, while one is leaning on the more explicit side and used to make others laugh or get an over the top reaction, the other was used as an inside joke of sorts, only brought up to embarass or shut up Dream/George when they got over-confident (most times it would effectively leave them quiet, important to note, is that they never denied the claims nor attempted to).

TRAINS PODCAST. Oh boy, was this a night to remember. A historical mark for DNF. The point in history that George decided to become BOLD and actively flirt with Dream whenever he wanted to, rendering or poor Leo speechless most of the time. That podcast changed these men, it unlocked something within them and things have never been the same since. This is where we see the dynamic take a major switch, and baity moments had become almost non-existent, and instead we got probably some of the most tension filled convos between these himbos. Name-truthing had become something natural between them, the unavoidable excitement whenever they hear one another in call, suddenly ever call became a matter of how long until they were third-wheeling everyone. It's also during this time that we clearly see a difference in between Dream & Sapnap's relationship and Dream & George's relationship (not that one outweighed the other, but the nature of these relationships were very much opposing)

And finally we are in our current stance. Where the sweet, obnoxious moments continue to pile; More and more of their friends are calling them out (you can literally see Quackity and Karl becoming more direct and, quite honestly, aggressive with their call-outs. I bet they are just as tired as we are); The whole hoodie fiasco and the secretive pictures; Syncing sleep schedules once again; Tension continue to grow and you can see them testing the waters, in a game of tug of war until one of them caves in and starts the conversation.

As I said before, they have nothing to gain from the bait they are currently doing. They excuse it as being a joke, and hide behind this lie, as a means to test the development and seriousness of whatever they have going on. The whole Valentine's thing proves that they (unfortunately) do not understand when the other is being sincere or baity...

Also here is some food for thought. George has been very clingy with Dream ever since he and Sapnap moved in together. Not being able to see each other is certainly another factor that is affecting them.

I'm anxious to figure out what in the hell is happening next between our oblivious idiots with communication issues. It sometimes seems surreal the things that occur between them, and straight out of a fanfic.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant and if this wasn't very interesting to read! Just wanted to get some thoughts out of my head!! Stay safe and hope you have a good day/afternoon/night! ❤

Hi love! Glad to have you back <3

Firstly, don’t ever be sorry for ranting in my inbox, especially ab dnf. I love to see it!

Thank you for this, especially the early parts when I wasn’t in the fandom yet. Ahh this is super helpful.

I agree that George has gotten more clingy since Sapnap and Dream moved in together which is so funny because Dream and George have a more similar sleep schedule than Sapnap and Dream do LMAO

But yes all of this ugh I’m deeming you my genius anon

#dreamnotfound #dnf #genius anon #ask

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