#or a P1 route where you go from SQQ to SEBEC too????

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

That domain thing might be legit jdsklafja;fj don’t do this to me I don’t think I can take it. The possibilities of a Fem Answer???? FeMC cutscenes?????? P3 in nicer HD models??????? I’m going to die happy TT0TT

[nodutra19]

Snowgrave Inspirations?

So we all know the Snowgrave route was inspired, or at least has the texture of being as such, by creepypastas in the sense a game is being broken and has an almost gestalt intelligence in its reaction to being so. Beyond specific references and such, what do y'all think specifically inspired it? I imagine shit like Ben Drowned and Godzilla NES factor in, but I want to provide a unique addition:

Persona 1, or more specifically, Revelations: Persona.

Some set dressing for the uninitiated: Persona 1 has two routes:

The main story is the SEBEC Route, which centers around the demon invasion and transformation of Mikage-cho as a result of the machinations and experiments of the shady SEBEC ("Saeki Electronics & Biological & Energy Corporation") and how one Maki Sonomura stands at the center of all this.

That's the story most experience, but there's a harder alternate route called the Snow Queen Quest, or SQQ for short. This route centers around the titular play which was performed at St. Hermelin High, the school of the game, and how the Snow Queen Mask came to be possessed with a vengeful spirit. But in order to activate this quest, you have to take a number of steps after leaving the school to visit Maki but before activating the SEBEC route, which most people do because of the natural flow of the story; while not the most cryptic or elaborate thing I've experienced, you definitely have to go out of your way in order to experience this part of the game.

While the SQQ is similarly hiemal as Snowgrave since the Queen freezes the school over and attempts to sacrifice a pivotal teacher to bring back the "Eternal Night," the main thing I want to talk about is:

The fact that in the original American release of the game, retitled Revelations: Persona, cut this alternate route out. Now, there's a lot to be said about this release of the game and P1 as a whole. For that, I highly recommend Snickety Slice's videos on it from his Compendium series of essays.

As Snickety Slice says in the SQQ portion of video 3A, which focuses on the American localization of the time, no one really knows why it was cut, by which is meant there is no definitive answer. The most popular theory, as he posits, is that this was done to meet the Christmas deadline, which is a tad ironic considering the atmosphere and setting of SQQ. However, you can actually access a tiny bit of it: if you return to the school, you'll see it's disappeared and when you enter it, an FMV of the school surrounded by three towers and a peak plays. Snickety remarks how confusing this must have been for American players at the time since the actual steps to activate the quest were cut out.

With cheats you can access it, but it's a glitchy, nonsensical mess. I mention all this because of the glitchy theme in Deltarune so far, especially as a result of Noelle's seeming magnetism for the unnerving and dark as revealed in the Spamton sweepstakes and Noelle's posts. I think the details of SQQ and Snowgrave are too disprate to draw real parallels so far, but I get the feeling Toby is drawing from its atmosphere, especially the disconcerting aura of the original American release and the stray FMV. As for the glitchiness, I get the feeling it was all concentrated into Spamton, especially given Spamton's role in the game so far.

I haven't gone through P1 in a very long time, so this is where my rambling ends, but perhaps someone else can draw deeper parallels.

The only real problem is I have no idea how much of Megami Tensei Toby Fox has played. He's a weeb of high caliber, so I imagine he's gone through most of it by now, maybe even early Persona, given how UT's and DT's Talk systems were inspired by MegaTen's demon negotiation, which was present in P1 and the P2 duology, which certainly lines up with his age and background. After all, he gave the Earthbound: Halloween Hack that "Shin Megami Tensei Bullshit."

Also everyone here should check out the PSX OST. It has the best leitmotif.

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

@thanatoast250 No no, you’re fine.

Ok didn’t think I’d have to explain this part but I’ll break it down. (also don’t for get PQ where they have the male Mc shown 8U)

So what’s going on with the games is that they are following one route. Reasons being it’s easier to is it’s obvs easier on the devs (other Megatens do this too, like Raidou games are continuations from the previous games’ neutral route because....the world doesn’t end in that route and so it’s easy to make a game sequel to that). Now, this doesn’t mean the other aren’t canon (if anything I believe Atlus has stated all routes you can go in Megaten games are canon, they just choose the one’s that obvs can lead to a sequel), the devs are just trying to make it easier on ourselves and themselves for various reasons. So technically the bad ends in Persona are also canon (but obvs means the end of that said timeline so we never get a sequel continuing from that). Dialogue in P2 show that both routes in P1 are canon and were taken (as the characters have memories of both, even tho it’s impossible in game to play the SEBEC route right after you finished the SQQ route...for some reason, even tho time wise it makes sense you can fit both in). Heck, even if you just start up SMT4 for the first time, the characters act like you’ve already chosen the Law, Chaos, and/or Neutral route a bunch of times before (from what I recall of Flynn’s acid dreams), so basically all of that is canon (but SMT4A just follows the neutral route because....it was the only way to really have a sequel fit into it). SMT IF.... had a male and female route with multiple ending routes (if *badumshhh ;D* I’m correct), any and all are canon. It’s just that they chose the female/Tamaki (cause Tadashi has a big crush on the woman she was based off of 8U) to appear in the Persona universe. Doesn’t mean that Male!Tamaki doesn’t exist at all (be it in Megaten game canon), it’s just that he doesn’t seem to exist in the Persona universe (or maybe he does and we just never got to experience it yet). I should note that the SMTIF..MaleMC does have his own manga universe, but I’m only versed in what’s canon when it pertains with Persona, but if it’s governed by the same idea as Atlus does with Persona merch it’s probably in that “non canon to games” realm.

So how does this apply to the FeMC? Well unlike the maleMC of SMT If, we know she’s in the Persona universe (P3P). Sadly, because they finally got to add her but only after P4 was released and they said “blue haired boy” they had to stick with the P3Male MC route. So we can only assume that the rest of her timeline plays out similar to the MaleMC’s route/aka every game after P3 And we probs won’t “see” her unless Atlus wants to get creative again and have alter timelines interact again (or release P4 alternate and P5 alternate in which actual P4/5 don’t take place in her timeline but these two other events/games do instead), or if she shows up in the malemc route in a later game but as someone who was never the leader of SEES but just a fellow survivor of the moonlight bridge, basically she’d be like the IS!Maya role, while P3P where she takes the maleMC’s place as leader is her EP!Maya role.....but I digress that’s just ideas they could totally go with at some point that would still be canon with the games. But yeah, she’s still there, there’s references to things that you only see in her route (ie the pancakes thing, or just Theo himself)

Tldr;/Just to boil it down: “Every option, route, and ending in any Persona or Megaten game is canon. Sequels are made by choosing one of these routes/endings because if you want a sequel we have to choose, but that doesn’t discredit or uncanonize any of the other endings from ever happening. So the FeMC’s route applies to this as well, just cause we don’t see the rest of it happening doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in the first place.”

Sorry if it’s muddled, if I can I’ll try see what I can do about maybe retyping it tomorrow. @.@ ;w;