#op I love orpheus' design!!

[starry-bi-sky]

hi I saw your post about hadestown and bingge and I'm frothing at the MOUTH. I think like how shen yuan started hyperfixating on pidw bingge just fuking becomes a number 1 fan for the performance troupe. What other performances do you think Shen Yuan will xianxia-ify?

SAME. Aaaaaa im so glad you liked that post, im in a similar state over it <33 Bingge went in expecting a vaguely entertaining but ultimately mediocre show and instead got fucking SCALPED. Like instantly obsessed, unable to go back to the way he was before, completely unhinged <3

And aaaurrgh I have this design idea for the Hades actor where throughout the whole show, Hades is wearing a mianguan with so many beads hanging over the front of his face that you couldn't see anything above his mouth. His upper face completely obscured by his crown and the jewels/beads hanging from it. The picture of an untouchable, terrifying, powerful emperor.

But during Epic III, when Orpheus sings the first "la la la", Hades bellows "Where'd you get that melody!?" as he stands from his throne in rage. As he does, his mianguan falls from his head to the ground, revealing the full of his face for the first time. Revealing the face of an angry, scared man.

He doesn't put the mianguan back on for the rest of the show, and he's so expressive that it's no wonder he wore the mianguan all the time.

and as for your ACTUAL ask -- nothing too modern gets xianxia-fied! Hadestown was easy because it already had mythical elements due to being another myth. He just had to rewrite it in a way that would make sense in PIDW. And he doesn't xianxia too many musicals i think, some of them require too much outside context that would be too hard to translate.

Epic I think would be one that gets xianxia-fied, although that's one of the trickier musicals because Jorge has very specific musical motifs behind each character that makes it hard to translate into PIDW -- Hermes' is associated with the harp and the lyre but every time he's in a song he also comes with a very techno-disco-y (???) beat. Plus a lot of other technical aspects as well -- Scylla is the first to come to mind -- that SY's troupe doesn't have the manpower or funds for.

I think it could happen, though! It's just rather tough and it helps fuel SY's decision to keep the musical adaptations to a minimum AND to use musicals that aren't super modern. Hunchback of Notre Dame I think SY could get away with xianxia-fying. Anastasia too. I don't know many plays so I can't say what plays he could xianxia-fy, but he DOES write stage adaptations for some of the stories he tells his troupe, and finds that he really likes it!

It's surprisingly fun coming up with roles, lines, story beats, etc, trying to figure out how he could make this into that. Writing is fun, and the mental challenge that comes with even more so. He loves it!

He makes a stage play telling the story of Hades and Persephone -- albeit altered to fit into Hadestown, rather than the original tale.

And eventually he starts making up his own stories as well -- retellings of myths from PIDW and his world, and things he made up himself to tell certain messages. Rarely does he play a major role in any of these stage plays themselves -- much to Bingge's dismay. It's too much attention for his poor thin face to take! He most often just plays Orpheus. He prefers to stay behind the scenes during plays.

But you can always find him outside the theater when his troupe is in town! If they're not preparing for a stage performance, SY loves going out to tell stories to a crowd! It brings him a lot of joy to watch them sit on the edge of their seats, hanging on to his every word. He especially loves telling stories to children, they get so excited and their interruptions can get annoying sometimes, but its endearing.

And oh, he does love to sing. He's just so very shy about it. It's a miracle that his troupe managed to convince him to be Orpheus -- but that's probably why they waited until opening night to do it. People get so weird when he sings -- it makes him self-conscious. So he only sings when he's alone or around his troupe while on the road.

Oh yeah no, Bingge is OBSESSED with this group. Specifically one mister Shen Yuan who looks so very much like his old teacher, but ISNT him. He's not sure if Shen Yuan is a descendant of Shen Qingqiu's family line, or straight up the man's reincarnation, but at this point he doesn't actually care that much he just needs the man's attention.

It's actual so funny I think. I don't think fan merch exists in PIDW which is a problem, because Bingge WILL resort to stalking. He's going to orchestrate a fan meeting with SY mark his fucking words. He has to see what this man is like when he's not on stage -- is he as pure as the character he portrays? Or is he as rotten as the face he wears.

(It turns out to be the former, and Bingge doesn't know what to do about it. Kidnapping is high on that list. It is SO high on that list.)

[1moreoffkeyanthem]

after watching your most recent post (which I love by the way you are SO talented!!)

I’ve been sucked into a hypothetical South Park musical au where they’re all apart of a musical they’re performing at school

I was wondering if you have any headcanons on who would go into each department (actors, dancers, backstage, costume, art/prop and backdrop making, etc.)

BRO the way I’ve been unconsciously waiting for this! I’m a film actor, majored in filmmaking and photography in college, deadass went to school to be a cam op before turning to acting. But in high school I WAS a theatre kid. And yes I have so hcs on that.

So yes what immediately comes to mind are both Bellwether’s “There’s a Reason Intimacy Is In A Fight Call” and “Acting On Impulse”. I ADORE Kenny as the set designer and Wendy as stage manager. Film wise I see Wendy as a 1st AD, easy. She IS the head bitch in charge and I have so much respect for the AD’s I’ve worked for. That is NOT an easy job.

Yeah a lot of the influence here is coming from those fics, but theatre wise i definitely see Bebe on costumes/props. Wendy as stage manager, Cartman as FOH and venue manager, Kenny as set designer and builder, Stan helping with that but also our leading man. Kyle either acting or handling lighting design. Butters is the choreographer. Craig I’d like to see directing, Tweek on sound design. Now granted, it’s been probably 7 years since I’ve done a stage production. I did not do theatre in college, and I do admit to having a good deal of trauma from high school theatre. In fact, I HATED musicals for a long time after that. Hadestown and The Lightning Thief were the musicals that got me to love them again. What can I say, I’m a hoe for Greek Mythology.

So yeah Hadestown is my favorite musical no question. Despite the fact that I’m a 25 year old woman my ULTIMATE goal roles are Mr Hermes, Hades, and Orpheus. Les Mis is another fave and I would HAPPILY play Javert. Phantom Of The Opera, give me Phantom, or Raul, no question there. I’m not a soprano, although I would DIE to wear Christine’s costumes. And I’ll be so fr, I used to be a much better singer in general. Depression, EDs, smoking, kinda killed that. But I’m singing again. I’d LOVE to work on a movie musical. At this moment my job is recovering from anorexia, and I’ve been focused on that for the past two months or so, but once I’m more steady, I’m SO going back to auditioning, because dude I fucking LOVE acting. I love telling people’s stories. I love telling stories in general and that’s why I write.

Thank you, SO MUCH for this ask

[foxys-fantasy-tales]

OC Name Meaning Tag

I was tagged by @writingmaidenwarrior

Rules: Put down an OC or more and tell what their name means. I choose....ALL OF THEM! MWAHAHAHA! I love name meanings! Arigale Characters Judith: "She will be praised" Chit: This one is more complicated. Chit was originally named like "chitter chatter", noise, as the old awful man who named him upon finding him didn't care for him. The name can also mean: "loveable/heart", so jokes on the old man. Maleth: "Unconventional", "positive", "warrior" Calista: “most beautiful” Pearl: "precious pearl", "little treasure" Rahat: "rest", "comfort", "ease" Mille: "helper to the priest", "good/generous" Skye: "misty isle", "also literally references just the sky"

Aldric: "old ruler" Aka: "Red", seems simple but the color represents more than her design in her tale. Varin: "to defend", "rich in gifts" Kichi: "fortunate", "auspicious" Vitis: "alive", "vine/grapevine" Yani: "Peace and Mercy" Made To Taste Characters Lyra: "lyra/harp", name is always a reference to Orpheus's music that could move even the gods. Noel: "born on christmas", which is a funny name for a demon to make for himself. His real name he keeps hidden. Rosie: "rose", flower can mean many positive things like love, friendship, joy, and admiration. Sheryl: "beloved, darling" Jasper: "treasurer" Rowan: "little red-head", his hair color changed lol. Kept the name. Morrigan: "war goddess" Joy: Like Skye it's intended to be simple, "great happiness" Terrance: "smooth" Henry: "house ruler" Irwin: "boar friend" Dream Escape Characters Emma: "whole, universe" Jasper: "treasuere" (yes I like the name sound and used in two WIPs) Michelle: "gift from god" Sam: "god has heard"

Elizabeth: "god is my oath" Sarah: "princess" Adrian: "the sea, water" Opal: "precious stone", "faithfulness", "confidence" Ophelia: "aid/help" Otherly Series Characters (so far in planning) Daphne: "laurel tree", which represents victory and achievements Arabella: "invokable" Ida: "industrious/prosperous" Hazel: "hazel tree", which represents wisdom, inspiration, and magic Florence: "blossoming, flourishing" Viola: "violet/purple" Bloodlines Duology Characters (so far in planning) Gwyar: "gore", "spilled blood" Luith (Luithcal'laeron): (friend made this one for this co-op project and I'm not sure of the meaning offhand) Prigger/Prigg: "one who steals" Tome: "double/twin", "ref to books" Dianthe: "silent and gentle" Kaine: "spear", "little battler" Lisa: "noble, protected" Stanley: "stony meadow"

Dolus: "deceitful,crafty"

I will tag: @faelanvance, @dragonedged-if, @sleepyowlwrites

[horizon-verizon]

Also, I'm not sure why they think Dany would be "tainted" or invalidated as a hero by a story of a IPV when:

some already think that she is made to fix her ancestors errors or purify the legacy in their pursuits of power (pre-and post- Conquest/Doom)....shouldn't work here, too, where one could say Dany is reversing the conventional woman-as-material of the original prophecy by being a woman/girl who becomes the agent when she would have died?

Nissa-Nissa and Lightbringer's narrative is itself a fictionalized, really mythical, account of a sacrifice meant to bring about great change, yes...when Dany dies she will leave behind a narrative that both confounds and springboards off of the first and thus create space for an exegesis of how such myths are created in a culture

Dany rose from her husband's, father's, and brothers' ashes, from the ashes of the Targ-Andal patriarchy paradigm and the dynasty had to die bc said thing is designed against a woman such as her, to prevent "her"; it follows that she might be dusting the orig prophecy's narrative's patriarchal structure

[coming off of #2 & #3] that patriarchal IPV structure/format is not necessarily defining the prophecy itself as to destroy the significance & point of the sacrifice: something of the self or something one loves will be lost to battle forces of world-eating evil; it is very possible that is the format some people chose to tell it in bc that was most relevant and familiar to make sense for them to "absorb" the prophecy's said point. For Dany to be the active one and not the material or very much not like Nissa-Nissa, we have turned the orig format on its head for others to study or reflect on, as OP says. This isn't to say that it isn't important to point out the IPV or how the myth's format served to reaffirm that control over a woman's body, but I am saying that Dany is literally showing, in real time, that myths are stories we can make new formats for and to re-claim the significance of. That the significance =/= the format as she subverts the format and attaches a new meaning to the prophecy. We as myth/fiction readers often see problematic writing and are nonetheless compelled to pluck & keep the more logically-morally sound arguments or ideas or root of ideas from stories we read/see...could it not be that here, too, we should be seeing a sort of meta "plucking" on Dany and people after her's parts?

In several Greek & Roman myths or tales, we see entire formats carry problematic "messages"/messages but also we do get gems or interpretations here and there about how one deals with death (Orpheus and Eurydice) and many others.

So I think it's a bit too shortsighted to say that Dany can't be Azor Ahai bc that orig prophecy isn't very feminist. If anything, that makes Dany even more a feminist tale AND Azor Ahai. It's a taking charge of the literal narrative set against women.

From time to time, I see some people argue that Dany can't be Azor Ahai because Azor Ahai was a man who killed his wife and such a character can't be considered a hero. So Dany couldn't be Azor Ahai because she is a hero and because such a feminist character like Dany can't be associated with Azor Ahai.

I agree that Dany is a hero, and I agree that Azor Ahai killing his wife is not the most feminist story. But I disagree with the idea that this means Dany isn't Azor Ahai, because literally all the foreshadowing points to her, she fulfills every aspect of the prophecy. Just because we as readers might think there's a moral dissonance in Dany being Azor Ahai, doesn't mean that she isn't. Whether we as readers might not like her being Azor Ahai, whether we think it's not feminist for Dany to be Azor Ahai, it doesn't change the fact that GRRM wrote all the clues pointing to her.

Also, while some people may argue that it's not feminist for Dany to be Azor Ahai because the original Azor Ahai killed his wife, other people might argue that Dany being Azor Ahai is a feminist subversion, because everybody expects the prophesied hero to be a man.

[starlight-phantom]

for the 'what's your fave ask....' what is your fave persona, and who is your fave phantom thief!

God, there's way too many Personas to pick a favourite... I can't even remember all of them... When it comes to random ones, I like Neko Shogun, Ame-No-Uzume and all the Jacks (They're all lil cutie-hees, ho) just 'cause I love their designs. And then I love Alice, Seiryu and Yoshitsune for just how op they can be.

And then if we're talking character's personas, Arsene's gotta be up there. Gotta love Mr. Knife Shoes. And I love Milady because of the entire arsenal of guns. Orpheus and Konohana Sakuya are beautiful. And I really love Helios, just 'cause I find it's design funny through context (The context being Katsuya absolutely adores cats but is extremely allergic to them)

Aaaaaand favourite thief would have to be between: Ren, Ryuji, Yusuke, Futaba or Goro. It depends on my mood at that moment in time.

[aglimmerofgod]

THE PUNISHMENT OF SISYPHUS 

Inherited a ready-made plight

Was too heavy, not many made light

Come from regal people, fell from great height

To track back to royal, had to break night

Feeding my pride humbly

Dreams that I die hungry

Did well not to fell, could tell seeds relied on me

Relied on me

They comme ci, comme ça

Want a world of superlatives, come see Ka

Stay hopeful and broke through on my umpteenth try-

To warn, you being watched by the unseen eye

Off innovation often mistaken as Orpheus That man sing that he ran thing but couldn't walk with us

Explain how i'm supposed to be tame when came from wild homes

Every inch of my coarse course didn't garner no milestones

Those in fashion raps with passion like hostile poems

Walked by buildings of crack, could've been tracked by Dow Jones

Move quiet, so admired when tools fire loud tones

There's boys to avoid getting knocked down stockpiled chromes

If a thug dumps, I sprung tell my loved ones get behind me

Can find me with laws lost and Raw's cloth designed me

Born growing show that calm my moms envisioned

Fought against multiple shots, should've been doing long division

Me and homie lost if the only course we on collision

War with foes, felt we always chose the wrong decision

Holding torch was shows of force, never resolution

All my days hadn't pulled it in from the tensions I never using

'Cause weighing the pain still playing the game forever losing

Apparently broke me, family wrote me from jail, the letters moving

Proven 'cause the letters made me treasure my free

Chased my 73rd since first steps in '73

Talk is of court, never fought, it's better to plea

Still conditioned to go on missions whatever it be

Learned many lessons from women, the biggest was forgiveness

Impossibly generosity taught me giving is the privilege

'Cause the only ones chillin' was the ones willing to pillage

Armed for strong-arm and too impatient to plan a heist

And how you handle fights determine if you man or mice

But soon taught this ain't true sport if you a fan of life

Start to gather what you rather: six feet or get hand a vice

I choose the op to excuse a lot, just don't deceive me

Not at all spoiled if the hard-boiled never got over easy

Where it's clear it's never acceptable to turn to jakes

I impress to you, become a vegetable or learn the stakes 

KA, 2018

The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor.

You have already grasped that Sisyphus is the absurd hero. He is, as much through his passions as through his torture. His scorn of the gods, his hatred of death, and his passion for life won him that unspeakable penalty in which the whole being is exerted toward accomplishing nothing. This is the price that must be paid for the passions of this earth. Nothing is told us about Sisyphus in the underworld. Myths are made for the imagination to breathe life into them. As for this myth, one sees merely the whole effort of a body straining to raise the huge stone, to roll it, and push it up a slope a hundred times over; one sees the face screwed up, the cheek tight against the stone, the shoulder bracing the clay-covered mass, the foot wedging it, the fresh start with arms outstretched, the wholly human security of two earth-clotted hands. At the very end of his long effort measured by skyless space.

If this myth is tragic, that is because its hero is conscious. Where would his torture be, indeed, if at every step the hope of succeeding upheld him? The workman of today works everyday in his life at the same tasks, and his fate is no less absurd. But it is tragic only at the rare moments when it becomes conscious. Sisyphus, proletarian of the gods, powerless and rebellious, knows the whole extent of his wretched condition: it is what he thinks of during his descent. The lucidity that was to constitute his torture at the same time crowns his victory. There is no fate that can not be surmounted by scorn.All Sisyphus' silent joy is contained therein. His fate belongs to him. His rock is a thing. Likewise, the absurd man, when he contemplates his torment, silences all the idols. In the universe suddenly restored to its silence, the myriad wondering little voices of the earth rise up. Unconscious, secret calls, invitations from all the faces, they are the necessary reverse and price of victory. There is no sun without shadow, and it is essential to know the night. The absurd man says yes and his efforts and time without depth, the purpose is achieved. Then Sisyphus will henceforth be unceasing. If there is a personal fate, there is no higher destiny, or at least there is, but one which he concludes is inevitable and despicable. For the rest, he knows himself to be the master of his days. At that subtle moment when man glances backward over his life, Sisyphus returning toward his rock, in that slight pivoting he contemplates that series of unrelated actions which become his fate, created by him, combined under his memory's eye and soon sealed by his death. Thus, convinced of the wholly human origin of all that is human, a blind man eager to see who knows that the night has no end, he is still on the go. The rock is still rolling.

I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy

ALBERT CAMUS,  1942

[abearthatwrites]

Counterpoint: yes, the Fates are. I'm going to go through a huge in depth analysis of the Fates here, and I will touch on When The Chips Are Down in this, but this song - and the Fates - 100% deserve to be here.

This is an absolute essay I am so sorry OP I'm putting it under a cut for everyone's sakes. The TLDR is that the Fates are representative of doubt and becoming jaded by the way the world is, two things the show argues against, and spend the show actively manipulating the other characters into believing such.

Also vote When The Chips Are Down as payment for this essay please ahshdhshs

There are two worldviews in Hadestown: seeing the way the world is, and seeing the way the world could be. These two worldviews are associated with colors in the stage lighting: characters who see the way the world is are cast in orange light, and characters who see the way the world could be are cast in blue. The Fates' lanterns cast orange light, and indeed, throughout the show they are associated with seeing the way the world is.

In Road To Hell, the Fates are introduced as "always singing in the back of your mind," and Hermes reiterates this statement in their proper introduction in Any Way The Wind Blows before adding that they follow "close behind" the jaded Eurydice. While Eurydice's first verse, prior to the re-introduction of the Fates, establishes the situation the world is in, what are the lines immediately following Hermes reintroducing the Fates?

[HERMES] Wherever it was this young girl went The Fates were close behind [EURYDICE] People turn on you just like the wind Everybody is a fair weather friend In the end, you're better off alone Any way the wind blows

A clear link is made here: the Fates following "close behind" Eurydice is jading her worldview, making her see the way the world is.

The next time we see the Fates in a significant role is in Way Down Hadestown, where their lines... well, they don't have a lot:

Every little penny in the wishing well Every little nickel on the drum All them shiny little heads and tails Where do you think they come from? They come from way down Hadestown...

But of note is their added lines in the NYTW production. In the concept album, Eurydice sang these; in Broadway, they were cut:

[FATES] Everybody dresses in clothes so fine Everybody's pockets are weighted down Everybody's sipping ambrosia wine [EURYDICE] In a goldmine in Hadestown

Interestingly, not one line is a lie: "dresses in clothes so fine" mirrors Hermes's warning in Wait For Me ("they'll truss you up in your Sunday best / and stuff your mouth with ccotton"), "pockets are weighted down" mirrors Hades' words to Orpheus regarding how to keep your love in Chant II ("fill her pockets full of stones / precious ones, diamonds"), "sipping ambrosia wine" mirrors Persephone running a speakeasy to distract the Workers from their misery in Hadestown in Our Lady Of The Underground, and Hadestown is repeatedly referred to as a mine throughout the show.

But the lines are true in an exact words way - if you truly think about it, they show the twisted depictions of Hadestown, but the words are designed to be manipulative, to make Hadestown seem like a paradise when it's anything but.

Over to Chant, Eurydice goes looking for food and firewood while Orpheus tries to finish his song. The Fates follow her, and once again make Eurydice see how the world is:

[EURYDICE] Looking low and looking high [FATES] There's no food left to find It's hard enough to feed yourself Let alone somebody else

What follows is a scene referred to by Anaïs Mitchell as the "Coat Ballet", where Eurydice loses her coat and bag to the wind - depicted as the Fates stealing them from her. And she protests it as though it were a theft rather than a force of nature:

Give that back! It's everything we have!

And this brings us to When The Chips Are Down, the song in this tournament. Hades has come to Eurydice with a job offer: work in Hadestown, and her needs will be taken care of. As Eurydice debates the offer, the Fates sing When The Chips Are Down, encouraging her to see how the world is and take care of her needs; in this case, accepting the job offer, leaving her husband behind.

Help yourself To hell with the rest Even the one who loves you best What you gonna do when the chips are down...

And Eurydice succumbs, accepting the job offer. What follows is Gone I'm Gone with a verse that still haunts me, because it truly makes you think - about the Fates' morality, and about the world as a whole:

Go ahead and lay the blame Talk of virtue, talk of sin Wouldn't you have done the same In her shoes, in her skin? You can have your principle When you've got a belly full But hunger has a way with you There's no telling what you're gonna do When the chips are down...

Over to Wait For Me, and Orpheus begins his descent into Hadestown. But along the way, Orpheus runs into the Fates; the music switches to the leitmotif of Doubt Comes In as the Fates try to make Orpheus succumb to doubt:

Who are you? Where do you think you're going? Who are you? Why are you all alone? Who do you think you are? Who are you to think that you can Walk a road that no one ever walked before?

Orpheus does not fall victim to the Fates' pressure, and makes it to Hadestown.

We don't hear from them again until Way Down Hadestown II, where only after Eurydice "signed her life away" do they tell her the reality of life in Hadestown:

Mister Hades set you free To work yourself into the ground Free to spend eternity In the factory and the warehouse Where the whistles scream And the foremen shout And you're punchin' in And punchin' in And punchin' in And you can't punch out And you're way down Hadestown...

Let's go back to the NYTW version of the song. As mentioned earlier when I went over Way Down Hadestown, the Fates got an incredibly manipulative verse, and that verse pays off in these lines where Eurydice realizes how much of a mistake she made:

[EURYDICE] But I don't understandd You said this was the promised land [FATES] You sell your soul You get your due That is all we promised you

[EURYDICE] There must be some mistake [FATES] Oh, it was a mistake all right And now you got to pay And pay And pay for it For the rest of your life

This does not even begin to get into the cut song "No One Now", where the Fates poetically describe how Eurydice "died". But I will share this cut version of Wait For Me, where the Fates straight up brainwash Eurydice (lyrics taken from "Working on a Song: The Lyrics of Hadestown"):

[FATES] One (one, one) You forget the sun [EURYDICE] I forget the sun [FATES] You forget where you came from You forget the sun [EURYDICE] I forget the sun

Orpheus makes it to Hadestown, Hades finds out, he has the workers beat up Orpheus in a fight scene. Orpheus gets thrown to the ground, and the fight scene ends with the Fates surrounding him to sing Nothing Changes - asking him why he's bothering to fight for change, when it's not going to do anything. They're continuing to try and sow doubt in his heart - why bother fighting, when nothing changes?

Orpheus doesn't fall, not yet - he rallies the Workers, and reaches Hades' heart through song, and it is through this song that Hades starts to repair his strained relationship with Persephone. But this still leaves the matter of, can Orpheus take Eurydice out of Hadestown? It's a no-win situation on Hades' part: if he denies them, he's heartless and Orpheus becomes a martyr; if he allows them, he's spineless and will hold no control over Hadestown anymore. The Fates, though, are all too happy to give Hades a Word to the Wise:

Here's a little tip Word to the wise Here's a little snippet of advice Men are fools Men are frail Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves

This advice gives Hades the idea to set a trap for Orpheus, where if Orpheus looks back then Eurydice must return to Hadestown. Yeah, it's the Fates who inspired Hades to set this trap in the first place.

I also want to note what Anaïs Mitchell had to say in "Working on a Song":

It was a satisfying turning-of-the-tables for the Fates to plague Hades the same way they'd plagued Eurydice throughout the show.

The Fates had been plaguing Eurydice, and now they're plaguing Hades. It's an interesting choice of wording.

Orpheus and Eurydice leave Hadestown in Wait For Me II, but the Fates challenge Orpheus on the way out, mirroring their taunts from the first Wait For Me:

Who are you? Who do you think you are? Who are you? Who are you to lead her? Who are you to lead them? Who are you to think that you can Hold your head up higher than your fellow man?

Orpheus had a retort in the first Wait For Me; he sang the Epic leitmotif to make the set literally break apart to open for him, before Hermes continued with the next verse. Here, however, he has no response, and Hermes immediately continues with the next verse. It's subtle, but it shows that he's being worn down, that the little seed of doubt that the Fates spent the entire show trying to plant in him is there.

And now we have Doubt Comes In. When I saw the show live, this was where I realized just how masterful the lighting in this show is, because the lighting here is critical. Again, characters who see the way the world is are cast in orange light, and characters who see the way the world could be are cast in blue.

Throughout this song, there are two sources of light: the blue glow of the path, and the Fates' orange lanterns. Throughout the song, the ates cast Orpheus in the orange light of their lanterns, while Eurydice trails behind, embraced in the blue glow. Because that's the thing, right? Orpheus going through hell for her causes Eurydice to finally see how the world could be, but the experiences mean that Orpheus now can only see how the world is.

And throughout the song, while the Fates have Orpheus in the orange glow of jade and doubt, they taunt him:

Doubt comes in, the wind is changing Doubt comes in, how cold it's blowing Doubt comes in and meets a stranger Walking on a road alone Where is she? Where is she now?

The set comes together. They almost make it out... and Orpheus turns around.

Because after the Fates spent the entire show taunting him, manipulating him, Orpheus finally succumbed to doubt, costing him Eurydice.

That's the core of the Fates. They represent doubt, and they represent seeing the world in all its sucky misery, and they represent hopelessness, that things will never change. And they spend the entire show plaguing Eurydice, plaguing Orpheus, plaguing Hades, trying to get them to fall for these feelings of doubt and hopelessness.

But doubt, hopelessness, seeing how the world is, that's not what the show is about. It's about seeing how the world could be. It's about seeing the light of hope in the future, and it's about making those changes to bring about a brighter world. That's why Orpheus went to Hadestown to bring Eurydice home, that's why the Workers rebelled against Hades, that's why Hades mended his relationship to Eurydice.

It's about hope. It's about seeing how the world could be.

Let the world we dream about be the one we live in now...

To the world we dream about, and the one we live in now...

"The Fates are not villains in any sense of the word." Except they represent what the show argues against, and they manipulate three characters into believing what the show argues against.

They may be morally grey, but they are much closer to villainous than heroic. They deserve to be here, and When The Chips Are Down - a song where they are actively manipulating Eurydice - does qualify as a villain song.

Villain Song Showdown Bracket H Round 2

One Step Ahead (Spies Are Forever) - Villain: Owen Carvour

When the Chips are Down (Hadestown) - Villain: The Fates