#one regarding emrys as the one who will bring the golden age of albion (and merlin fulfils that by killing morgana)

[camelotsheart]

Anyway Merlin is the Once and Future King pass it on

[nextstopparis]

Destiny and What It Meant for Merlin’s Relationships (IN MY OPINION!!!):

aka A Discussion about Merthur that Very Quickly Devolved

[disclaimer: god lets fucking hope third times the charm.. anyways, i saw something that made me defensive over merthur bc it kept comparing them to other relationships merlins had and using destiny to downplay them, and that led to this. so i bring up merthur a lot. this talks about destiny in merlin’s relationships, and then relates them back to merthur. this doesn’t attack any ships, i promise! it’s literally just me drawing up comparisons where destiny is concerned and then it starts talking more about destiny’s role in feelings, so. 5.3kish it keeps getting longer wtf word count up ahead… very incoherent… i may have gone a little insane. read at own risk] (also, endless amounts of thanks to @queer-clotpole and @once-and-future-dawn for finding that link &also for sending this back to me after tumblr deleted it….u guys r literally the bestests)

okay, one of my biggest pet peeves is the insinuation that merlin only really cared about arthur/loved him (in whatever way) because of destiny. ive already written about this here on someone elses post, but i also just wanted to add another few points: if that were true, literally all of merlin’s character digression in season 5 would make absolutely no sense???

if nothing else, season 5 showed how much merlin started prioritizing arthur over and despite destiny. he literally!!! went completely against any plan of action - even/especially regarding legalizing magic - in order to save arthur. thats what makes season five (and consequently the entire show) so hard to watch!!! because if only merlin had cared a little less about arthur/if he’d played into destiny a little more and followed it, then magic would’ve been legalized and arthur probably wouldn’t have died!!! if merlin only loved arthur because of destiny, then how could he have disregarded destiny so thoroughly for him? yeah, destiny brought them together, but it didn’t bring them any closer. as i said in the other rant: merlin’s destiny was to help arthur unite albion/bring magic back to the land (“without you, Emrys, Arthur cannot build a new world we all long for.” 5.10). he didn’t have to care about arthur? he only had to care about 1)helping him unlearn his hatred for magic, and 2) making sure he survived long enough to do something about that change of heart. merlin had several chances to do this, and yet forwent all of them because there was a possibility that arthur - his friend, not his destiny - would die. (i think we all are thinking the same thing, here: 5.05 in That One Heartwrenching Scene).

another thing: by reducing merlin/arthurs bond (however you want to think of it) to a mere product of destiny, one would also imply that destiny was only in play with arthur and merlin/that they were the only ones who had destinies or were involved in a particular destiny, which just wouldn’t be true at all?? let me explain: im going to take four people merlin was very close to and use them as examples, aside from arthur (also, please note that if you ship him with any of these people, im in no way trying to attack that!!! i love merlin with a lot of them, im not discrediting them! actually im saying why this particular argument doesnt work against any ship because it applies to all of them):

Lancelot: lancelot was foretold to be in merlin/arthurs lives, as heard by kilgharrah in 4.02, making him part of merlin’s destiny. see: “sir lancelot, the bravest and most noble of them all.” …see also in 4.02 at the isle of the blessed: it wasn’t arthur’s time to die, but it also wasn’t merlin’s. this left lancelot (or gwaine) to sacrifice themselves in order to save camelot (since that was the original goal) which needed to be done in order for the golden age to come, this directly links him to merlin/arthurs destiny. (“your time among men is not yet over, Emrys.” *looks pointedly at Lance, about to walk through the veil, almost as if she knew this was gonna happen*). what i’m trying to say is: someone was going to die that night so that albion would have a future. destiny ensured that it was neither arthur nor merlin by virtue of needing them later for their own destinies. it also wasn’t gwaine. by law of elimination, if destiny called for a single person to die, and took away ¾ of the choices, then it’s a fair assumption to say that lancelot was almost ‘destined’ to die there, no? you could argue that any other knight could’ve gone, but then - destiny is like, the master of putting the exact person it needs in the exact place it needs them in. also - lancelot was the only one who knew what merlin was planning on doing. If any other knight had gone, merlin would have sacrificed himself, and we already know destiny can’t have that. [so, by logic of reducing merlin/arthur’s relationship to only a product of destiny and nothing more, you’d also have to reduce Lancelot’s sacrifice and loyalty/love for merlin here to destiny, too, which is just grossly unfair.]

Gwaine: gwaine was also foretold to be in their lives, as heard in 3.08. see: “courage, magic, and strength.” - arthur needed gwaine there in order to complete ‘one of the most important’ tasks in a prince’s life; the ultimate deciding factor of whether they’re fit to be a king or not. now, you can debate the merits of how much it actually would’ve affected arthur’s ascension to the throne, since he was the only recognized heir, but the way they amp it up was: you die or you complete it, and if you do neither of those things then no one will actually think of you as a worthy king. arthurs destiny of being ‘the once and future king’ would’ve thus taken a huge blow. he needed to prove himself, otherwise what good is a king no one thinks is worthy? what good is a king dead before he even becomes one? so, merlin and him needed gwaine there in order to 1) help arthur with his destiny of becoming a respected king n uniting albion and 2) help merlin’s destiny of not only helping arthur become king, but also of helping arthur save albion (“…for this is not arthur’s quest, but yours.” 3.08)/bring magic back. hence courage and magic not only needing each other, but also needing strength. this makes them all a part of  each others destiny. [so since gwaine was destined to be in merlin and arthurs lives as much as they were meant to be in each others^, does that mean you have to disregard his loyalty and love for merlin (+arthur later on) with the previous logic of merlin&arthurs relationship not being as authentic ~bc of destiny~?]

Freya: once again, also in merlin’s life as a product of destiny. see: 3.08 with the bit about the fisher king (“…water from the lake of avalon. I have kept it safe these years waiting for the right person to claim it, and that is you. for you are the chosen […] albions time of need is near. […] your powers are great, but you will need help”) , and then cut to  3.12 when merlin sees her spirit is in the water and she gives merlin the sword. her interference is literally the only thing that ensured their victory over the immortal army, once again making sure that camelot actually has a future for the “uniting albion” bit to take place. this, again, makes her a direct player in all this destiny business. so she, too, was destined to be in merlin’s life - does that also reduce their bond in 2.09 to something that they had no choice over?

Elyan: who was also foretold (i think this also implies the rest of the knights being part of the destiny as well). see: “heed my words with due concern, for one of you will not return.” in 5.06, The Dark Tower episode. I think the mere fact that Elyan’s death was known shows that he was part of the destiny. you might also be able to say that this might not have been specifically Elyan but rather just any one of the knights. thats why i think this is an indicator that all the knights were part of the destiny, too. (idk why the fuck he had to die - but his life of being a knight [+all the others’] in arthur and gwen and merlin’s camelot was, still, a foretold part of merlin and arthur and gwens destinies. does that reduce their found family? their brotherhood?).

we always say how “arthur was merlin’s destiny”, but he wasn’t. helping arthur was, and that is not the same thing, because the first one implies that no one else was part of merlin’s destiny. which, as i try to explain with the above four examples, is just not true; they all had a role in merlin’s destiny. they were all ‘foretold’ just as arthur had been. they are not separate from destiny; they’re not an escape or an exception, they’re a part of a whole.

furthermore, there’s:

That One Old Guy in 3.05. see: “the moment of our meeting has been written for many, many years”

That Other Guy About To Die in 5.01. see: “i have been haunted by this moment for many years. since long before you set foot on this earth, Emrys.”

Finna in 5.10. see: “it is my destiny, Emrys, to serve you until the end.”

they didn’t even play a huge role in merlin’s life, and yet their destinies still put them in his path because they were intertwined. everyone that merlin met who contributed to his destiny was part of his destiny. whoever was there, was meant to be there.

my point with the above is: destiny is not an independent or singular event, particular to a very small set of people. in my opinion, the big destiny is albions future, and then everyone else has their own roles in bringing it about. it’s like, a destiny containing a subset of other destinies that will eventually fully complete it. yes, some people had a more relevant role in the grand scheme of things and were more closely intertwined than others, but they were all linked together. merlin’s destiny didn’t revolve around gwaine, lancelot, elyan, freya, or really anyone else, but it did incorporate them significantly - they were still a part of merlin’s and albion’s destiny, just as he was a part of theirs. ^merlin still needed each of those people at one point of his life in order to complete his destiny/get it to a specific point, just like he needed arthur and gwen and mordred and finna and literally anyone else. this means that no one role is more or less significant. (taylor swift asked it best: ‘if one thing had been different, would everything be different?’ to which this show implies, repeatedly, that the answer is yes. so many things could go differently if any one instance went differently, so they’re all equally important^. that’s why they were put in merlin’s path (but that’s not why they stayed). think of this: if gwaine hadn’t been there on merlin/arthur’s quest in 3.08, they wouldn’t have been able to complete it (“that’ll be--” “your friends, courage and strength, I know. without their help, you would not be here” 3.08), and camelot would’ve been doomed. think of all those little decisions merlin made that directly led to arthur’s downfall, if one of those things didn’t happen, would arthur have died? could arthur have been saved? aithusa is one example i never stop thinking about - what if merlin hadn’t named her? what if kilgharrah had looked after her? what if merlin didnt try to save her life in 5.01 by telling her to go?)

so all that being said, how can you reduce one relationship as ‘against what they would’ve wanted without destiny’ without doing the exact same thing to all the other relationships? destiny’s role in all the other ones was equally important, so…?

and i guess one argument that comes to mind straight away is that there’s an inverse relationship between the relevancy of one’s role in a destiny and the authenticity of their choices: the more central the role, the less their choices are really choices, because the more destiny needs to control them. in terms of actions*, all i can say is: destiny is probably going to dictate someone’s actions if they venture too far away to complete the destiny (because i do think there’s flexibility within its confines), but in terms of relationships, i think i can make an argument. here’s the thing: i really, genuinely believe that there is no possible way your destiny can make you feel an emotion. “but, nextstopparis, later on near the end of this, don’t you literally talk about how overwhelmed and trapped merlin felt because of destiny??” yes, reader, you’re right. but in my opinion, that wasn’t destiny’s fault. that was the way some figures in merlin’s life (*cough* kilgharrah *cough*) chose to present destiny. do you really think merlin would’ve felt so trapped and overwhelmed if the news was broken just a little bit gentler? If so much significance wasn’t put on it when he was being told? if he didn’t know at all? i don’t think so. he doesn’t feel trapped in his destiny because he has one, he feels trapped because he was told he has one.

ok, now back to my original point: i don’t think destiny can make you feel an emotion. you might tell me that the more two peoples’ destinies are intertwined, the bigger role they have in each others lives, and thus more exposure to each other which would equal more of a chance that they’ll get close. and that, you could argue, would be a direct manipulation and not very much of a “real connection”, but i ask you: do you really think that’s possible? just because you spend more time with someone (willingly or not) will you automatically grow fond of them? i think that if you don’t get along with someone, you just. dont get along with them. if anything, being that close all the time might make you dislike them/hate them even more? so, if destiny can’t force you to get along with people^ and consider them as friends, then merlin was just as likely to devote himself to arthur/love arthur without destiny as with it, right? this also applies to his relationships with literally everyone else. merlin got along with them. he chose to keep them around as friends. but…“nextstopparis, maybe since he knew about his and arthurs intertwined destinies, he felt obligated.” obligated? to? be his friend…? why would he feel obligated into caring about him, when at most his destiny asks him to save arthur a lot? i can understand merlin feeling responsible for arthurs life because of the knowledge. but? feeling obligated to care for him??? to love him??

actually, that’s a good point. let’s try and hypothesize what would’ve happened if merlin didn’t know about his destiny with arthur, thus there being no chance of having this sense of obligation to love him to see if their relationship would’ve changed:

merlin would’ve still been at the feast/banquet because gaius took him

he would’ve still saved arthurs life - since thats just a human decency thing??

ewther would still have made him arthurs manservant

they would’ve ended up in literally the exact same position as in the first episode.

now, what about the argument of “ok, he might’ve still gotten the job, but since he felt no obligation brought on by the knowledge of the destiny, he wouldn’t have stayed.” which i will say, is very plausible. i don’t believe this though (for a few reasons), because literally on his third/fourth day, he tells gaius he’s enjoying the job (“is it my imagination, or are you beginning to enjoy yourself?” *scoffs defensively* “i-it isn’t totally horrible all the time” 1.02… mm ok bby downplay it all u want). not to mention, in that same episode he gets fired. he gets fired and it hurts his feelings and he wants his job back (that smile when arthur says ‘im rehiring you’ - you know the one). it’s not a desperate sort of need that would come with obligation, it’s just something he wants. he just… likes working for arthur. this happening is independent of his knowledge of destiny (he hates it at first anyways, then slowly grows to enjoy it. also: he didn’t even rlly care about destiny at this point, so all of his decisions are of his own volition), so we can safely assume that this same thing would’ve happened without the knowledge of his destiny. so, continuing:

him and arthur would’ve still started bonding

he would’ve stayed in his job*

they would’ve still gotten as close as they did - just maybe without merlin’s pep-talks of “i believe in your destiny” before battles since he didn’t know about destiny

so now you’re thinking “but didn’t you also say that one difference *cough* in this case, merlin not knowing destiny *cough* leads to everything else being different, too? except…the way you’re talking makes it seem like nothing would be that different if merlin hadn’t known??” yes! yes i did say that, reader, and here’s the thing: i think that if merlin didn’t know about the destiny, everything important to the destiny would be different. think about it: as one example, he wouldn’t have been so suspicious of mordred all the time. and he wouldn’t have been so adamant on killing mordred to save arthur. since that was the thing that sealed arthur’s fate (5.05), id say it was a pretty important event to destiny, thus it makes sense that it would have changed. i just don’t think how merlin’s relationship with people progressed mattered to destiny at all. if they were there, that’s all that mattered. it didn’t matter why or how they were there, just that they were. thats why (i think, using what little logic I have to draw up hypothetical events,) it seems that merlin’s relationship with arthur wouldn’t have changed - because they could’ve been at a professional distance the whole time and completed the destiny. they could’ve complimented each other all the time and completed the destiny. it didn’t matter how they viewed or treated or cared for one another, as long as they got things done. their relationship wasn’t ultimately important, so with the difference of merlin not knowing his destiny, it wouldn’t have been affected at all (at least, not much/drastically). this reiterates the point im trying to make about their relationship being just as authentic as the next one.

[*now, let’s talk about this post, because destiny might not care about people’s relationships, but it cares a lot about people being in the right place (see: lancelot) at the right time. you can use this to say: “so what if destiny did make merlin love arthur with some, like, voodoo shit? because it needed him to stay close to arthur, and making him love arthur is the surest way to do that, right?” well, reader, let’s see. this is one part where the post comes in because it talks about how merlin - in the earlier seasons - did anything/ tried to take every possible escape from his destiny as he could, and how he really was not all that reserved about leaving it behind, giving examples from the lady of the lake, the witchfinder, the moment of truth etc. (please go read it - it’s so so so so good). so then, if destiny did make merlin fond of arthur to get him to stay…it backfired pretty fucking horribly? if merlin was made to care about arthur the way he did just to stay close to him…...why did he want/try to leave several times, then? so now you might be thinking “ok, nextstopparis, i’ll grant you the fact that he wasn’t forced to care about arthur here, but what if his repeated attempts to escape then lead to destiny forcing him to care?” well, honestly? the only thing i can think to say to you is: then why would destiny even bother? i think we can all agree here that destiny isn’t capable of caring about anything but itself, so if it had the power to make sure everything went by without a hitch, why wouldn’t it just exercise that power from the beginning? why risk waiting until something threatening happens to make sure it won’t happen again? it’s not like it’s a dictator trying to prove it’s “nOt tHaT baD!1!!1″? furthermore, it’s not like merlin would have known either way for destiny to even want to hide its power from him?? what could possibly be the point in waiting and risking everything, before making sure nothing goes wrong?? i think the real divide here comes with how much power you afford to destiny. i genuinely do not think destiny has power over people, just over events. it is, after all, itself just a major event waiting to happen, no? therefore, it seems impossible to me that merlin (or anyone else) could be made into feeling a certain way. this, i don’t think is either provable or disprovable? (but correct me if im wrong!!!). so anyways, all that being said, we can therefore, (mostly) safely conclude that destiny didn’t make anyone love anyone. (also: there you have it with the ‘obligation had nothing to do with how much he cared’ because he didn’t have a sense of obligation (“at least not yet” - which he later developed in s5, but by then he already cared for arthur enough to make it - in terms of their relationship - insignificant)).

so, anyways, the gist of the post is about how it wasn’t ooc of merlin to want to run away with freya, because he just really wanted an out from how trapped he felt with destiny. you should really go read it yourself, but it talks about how merlin’s primary motivation in the earlier seasons was to be loved - no obligation to destiny, no obligation to arthur. (i agree so hard with this). now you’re probably thinking, “then why’d you assume that merlin would stay in his job if he didn’t know? he might’ve liked it at first, but now you just said that he was trying to leave it even when he did know. wouldn’t leaving be easier to do, not knowing destiny? doesn’t that then mean arthur and merlin wouldn’t have grown so close, since he’d be able to leave, meaning their relationship would be different. and if it’s different in this case, then it is important to destiny, right? and since it’s important to destiny, it could’ve very well been fabricated.” but would it be easier to leave, reader? i did say he was trying to leave the job and that their relationship wasn’t ultimately important in the grand scheme of things and that destiny couldn’t make them feel a certain way, but i also said that destiny cares a hell of a lot about people being where they are supposed to be, and having the power to change events.

consider: in 1.10, merlin offers to stay in ealdor when speaking with hunith at the end of it. this is a direct instance of merlin wanting to leave his destiny, but ultimately not doing so. perhaps if he did not know about destiny, he would’ve fought his mom harder - perhaps he would’ve stayed in ealdor for longer. but just because we are pretending that he doesn’t know about destiny, does not mean destiny isn’t at play. do you really think that the same destiny that had a hand in killing freya to stop merlin from leaving camelot (this isn’t canon but it might as well be, ok?), would’ve allowed merlin to stay in ealdor? destiny might not care how merlin and arthur felt about each other (not that it would’ve been able to do anything about it, anyway) but it did care (and could control) that - at least geographically - they were near enough to get their destinies done. so, no. merlin wouldn’t have left his job - he may’ve wanted to, but i don’t think he would’ve been able to, whether he knew about destiny or not.

so now, i ask you again, because i’m pretty sure i know what you’re thinking: knowing his destiny or not, does merlin and arthurs forced proximity automatically lead to their love for each other?  do you have to love everyone you spend a portion of your life with? someone who you might believe you’re supposed to love? [it’s not exactly the same thing, but think toxic friends. maybe you do worship them while stuck in the friendship, but upon leaving it, that all changes, right? so let’s say this was a case of merlin only loving arthur because he thought he had to (even though we already explained away any ‘obligation’ arguments). merlin had… 1500 years… to reach the point of “i didn’t love him, i was forced into thinking i did”. and yet? 1500+ years and he’s still pining?? he probably met so many amazing people during that time, and had so many amazing experiences (aus where merlin is happy before arthur comes back>>>), but he still missed arthur and waited for him, because that relationship was fucking special and real.]  is love so trivial that the simplest manipulation can imitate it so thoroughly?

you might be thinking “nextstopparis, that’s horrible! how is destiny not letting merlin leave arthur any better?” it’s not. it’s fucked up and it sucks ass and it’s probably the most unfair thing about destiny. but that’s not the point of this post. the point isn’t to defend destiny, it’s to explain it. the point of this post is to tell you - yes, this sucks and yes, it’s horrible but it’s also not isolated. remember how everyone in merlin’s life was meant to be there? that means that everyone in his life would’ve been affected the same way. this is not just an issue with arthur/merlin, this is an issue with everyone ever. merlin loved everyone in his life just because he loved them. but no matter who they were, he wouldn’t have been able to leave them before it was ‘time’ - there was never more choice in that department with any one relationship. destiny didn’t force one relationship to progress, and then leave all the others alone, because it had equal sway in everything that was a part of it.

so now that we’ve established that there was nothing bonding merlin and arthur together other than themselves/their compatibility, let’s talk about destiny’s hand in freya’s death. hell, let’s talk about arthurs, and hope to drive the point home. merlin could have responded so differently to freya’s death by arthurs hand. he could’ve been so angry and cold and distant. it would have been so easy to just. stop responding and to emotionally distance himself from arthur at this point - i mean, he had every reason. the post i mentioned also talks about how arthur’s ‘1 step forward/2 steps back’ tango with his relationship with magic hurt merlin over and over. - how much it repeatedly let merlin down. every string keeping him with arthur was worn so thin - his one immediate/definite chance of happiness was gone, he fully believed he’d never be accepted for who he was, arthur had (unknowingly) betrayed him again, arthur had let him down again, destiny still wasn’t worth everything, destiny felt too far away - that he had every reason to just..shut off from arthur completely. and yet... he didn’t. whatever my opinions are on freya/merlin, in the show it’s obviously meant to be canon that they felt very strongly (idk about love) about each other. so to lose her because of arthur and yet still to forgive him? to be betrayed like that by arthur (knowingly or not), and yet to not hold it against him? (this actually reminds me of that doctor who quote: “do you think i care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?”) to see, with his own eyes, that destiny seems to be failing and yet still believe in arthur and stay with him?  is that really an emotion so insignificant that it can be falsified this meticulously?]

that got a little long, but now you might be back to thinking “ok, fine, nextstopparis, now say we’re assuming you’re right, and that merlin not knowing about his destiny/not feeling trapped because of it would’ve still resulted in as strong a bond for merlin/arthur as with the knowledge. that doesn’t change the fact that it was still an omnipresent force bringing them together in the background, so i still think it’s was never a real choice for merlin and arthur to be together.” to which i reraise my previous opinions of, ok reader, yes, but also - 1)their physical proximity had no correlation to the intensity of their relationship(as we’ve already talked about in great detail), so what does that matter, and 2)that logic is also then true for everyone in merlin’s life, because every single person in merlin’s life, just like arthur, was also part of that destiny. therefore, the exact same logic applies, which then means that no one relationship began “more authentically” or “more as a choice” compared to the others.

It wasn’t “arthur for merlin because destiny made sure it was no one else” it was “arthur for merlin because merlin chose to have arthur as more than a destiny.”

to summarize: i think every single person in merlins life was there because of destiny. yes, it sucks that he sometimes felt trapped and yes it was completely unfair how overwhelmed he was all the time, but that in no way reduces the authenticity of any of his relationships with people. they were put in his life to help him with something, but he chose how they fit there. destiny was brought up too much with too much emphasis on its importance which is what made it all so overwhelming for merlin, but…honestly? im starting to believe more and more that destiny is more of just. a push in a direction you wanted to go in, anyways. this is why i believe that ‘this show is the epitome of the quote “i do believe in fate and destiny, but i also believe that we are only fated to do the things we would choose, anyway.” by Kiersten White.’  this is also why i believe thinking destiny is anything else within the context of the show would make it a lot more depressing.

so please. PLEASE! stop reducing merlin’s relationships to an unfortunate effect of destiny. give him the respect of acknowledging that at the very least he was able to choose who he loved.

I also want to say that this post is only to show that merlin and arthur’s relationship/love for one another (platonic or otherwise) was just as valid and just as beautiful and just as real as merlin/arthur’s relationships with everyone else. it was just as untouched by destiny. you can debate the merits of “better ships” all you want, but i just don’t think destiny is an argument you can use in those debates (u know, common factor and all), unless im missing something?

anyways, idk if this makes sense or if this is even an actual argument, but i see a lot of people play the destiny card negatively for one thing but then completely ignore the fact that it applies to literally everything else, too, so i just needed to write this. it might be wrong on every level and a bit incoherent and also i repeat myself a lot but. i literally only have 0.03% more of a braincell than arthur so you literally cannot judge me. this is also completely just my opinion/thoughts and is thus very susceptible to errors of a gigantic size. so. i might be (probably am) missing a lot of important points. especially considering how biased/defensive i am where merthur is concerned jdiosjeoiejfsekl. omg

if you read this far: i am SO sorry, oh my god. do you still have brain cells?? they may have died with each word here…. n e ways idk if anyone will read this - im hoping to GOD not, but if you do and want to criticize my entire existence…fair… but pls b gentle abt it im sensitive. i tried to think of as many counterarguments as I could.

ok, thx 4 reading!