#omni man vs homelander | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

marzipanilla · 2 months ago

Note

Re: your tags; I know very little about the Invincible comics and I'm curious about the differences between them and the show, and how you think they're handled?

(p.s. I'm the one who commented on your time loop Debbie fic recently and I just wanted to say once again how much I like it :D)

Hey there ! Thought I recognized your name. Thanks. : D

Sure. I can ramble insanely about this lol I'll stick with just comic stuff that has been covered by the show so far, with a few mentions to things that seem to currently be absent since the comics had already mentioned them by now, so they could show up, could not- might be mild spoilers.

If you're curious about other stuff check out this tag (which I'll also add to this post) where Stove and I just theory craft and world build and ramble about the show in general.

Rest under the cut bc I can talk a lot lol

In general if you're also just looking for broader stuff about the themes and ideas that really could be present in Invincible but aren't- if you aren't familiar, Overly Sarcastic Productions is a YouTube channel that does video essays and they have a great one about the Superman trope, and they also cover Homelander and Omni-Man in it- and what they talk about in there about the politics and symbol of what a 'Superman' character really represents is just great and definitely something I think the writers could have integrated more. Again, this is a 20 year old piece of media that has one of its original creators attached to it- and he has flat out said he hoped to fix/tweak some things in it! Where I think Invincible is really beginning to fall flat is trying to adhere too much to its source material rather than being willing to use it as a basis for telling a better story, which seemed like something they were willing to do initially but has since tapered off.

I read from someone else that 'Invincible' is called that bc it's about Mark's indomitable spirit and nothing to do with his sort of invulnerability, and while I agree with that sentiment I think the comic and the show sort of lose sight of that. Like, stumbling blocks learning curves yes, but it IS very funny to go from S2 ending 'I need to learn to control myself' Mark to S3 'lose my shit and blender everything that stresses me out/threatens me' right up top.

But to try and go more in order...

S1 is the largest deviation from comic canon in that it added a lot. Darkblood being relevant, Cecil (who isn't introduced until after Nolan reveals himself in the comic), the entire investigation into who killed the Guardians, Amber being a fleshed out character. Debbie is much more of an accessory than a character in the comics (none of her talks w Mark about being a hero exist, none of her talks w Nolan about teaching him about Earth are in it) so pretty much anything that happens with her in that season is brand new. As is the support group and her near suicide in S2. I fell in love with Debbie in S1, and like you, her dynamic w Nolan is pretty much my one major investment in the narrative. And then after I watched S1 I read the comics, and uh.. yeah. Was not particularly pleased with what I read.

In the show Nolan is clearly shown struggling with what he is doing and is also very much an alien who had to learn through his relationship with Debbie about Earth, intimacy, and empathy. Nolan in the comics is more or less the perfect image of a family man (who seems to have figured everything out about Earth on his own) who raised his son and brings home the bacon (Debbie is a housewife in the comics, getting into real estate only after Nolan leaves). He also doesn't have the 'save planets vs save people' mentality that he does in the show. Comic!Nolan genuinely helps everybody all the time, no complaints, and definitely was never shown dropping a guy to scare information out of him.

The reveal happens later in the narrative and is much more sudden and jarring. Nobody suspects him (he wasn't injured, he just kills them all in one page of the comic and then goes about his day) yet he is arguably MUCH more callous in the comic once the truth comes out. Though he doesn't put Mark's head through a train. I think the hesitancy and the difficulty and the very ridiculous attempt to try and keep Debbie with him in the show is better for the over all narrative, though on a micro level I don't really have a preference for one over the other- Nolan is just arguably a different guy in the comic (I would say Mark and Debbie are as well).

His time on Thraxa is where a pretty massive change between the two is present. In the comic, Nolan has ~two weeks to hold his breath in space before he'll suffocate (just the amount of time we're given adult viltrumites can hold their breath for) and there is no suicide attempt- he just lands on Thraxa bc he stumbled across it and they put him in charge bc he's old. He also planned to take over and give the planet to the Viltrumite Empire as a mea culpa for fucking up on Earth! He eventually elects not to do this and sends for Mark to help him with his brother et al.

I do prefer the change the show gave us, suicidally depressed guy falls into being a hero and maybe starts to get his shit together. It gives a much better weight to the fact Earth did affect him and he is still carrying it around. Mark also breaks down into tears and begs his father to come home so they can all be a family again, which thank god they changed that. Mark doesn't express much in the comic aside from one snarky comment about his dad moving on real quick (which Nolan tells him to shut down because 'I'm still your father' and Mark shuts up). When asked about Debbie, in the comic Nolan just says 'I don't want to talk about your mother' and Mark drops it, not even defending her like he does in the show. (Debbie just becomes a passed out on the floor alcoholic in the comic until Mark yells at her one day and then that makes her get her shit together, which like, very glad they changed that, though I could have stood to see her drinking getting a little closer to what happens in the comic just bc I'm a sucker for characters I like suffering)

The show also did everything in it's power to make Andressa a person with feelings, and honestly I applaud the attempt but unless literally anyone bothers to mention her again why. She is such a plot device. In the comic she says 'it's an honor to be mated to him' re: Nolan and definitely doesn't have any long speeches about falling in love so hard she was apparently willing to overlook the guy having beat his last kid near to death and demeaned and abandoned his last spouse- and look, I will always be on the fence about how much Andressa actually knew about what happened and how it was presented to her bc what the fuck. Whatever was going on in Nolan's head when he decided to get remarried and have another kid is something that is genuinely never addressed in the comic and the show currently has a chance to rectify this, but who knows if they will.

I do all I can to warn people that I am definitely not unbiased and Oliver bugs the fuck out of me. There is a 'common' most hated character in the series, and I am ambivalent about them, but I fucking hate Oliver.

So far, his integration into Debbie's life on Earth is the one thing that was handled with a lot better grace, while I still find his entire story line very obnoxious. In the comic, Mark drops Oliver off at her house so he can go talk to Amber and when he comes back Debbie is just like 'I'm adopting him bc clearly as a mother I cannot resist taking care of a baby!'. The show let's her have feelings about it at least, but I still am mad that it didn't just have Mark single-father his brother. Just. Just fucking do it. The comics practically never showed Debbie actually raising/interacting with Oliver anyway. I am pretty sure the GDA tutor and Oliver have more back and forth dialogue with each other... like.. they literally just dumped this kid off on Debbie then never showed her actually raising him. The show is having her be more active with him, but it is in such an coddling mentality that I'm still not sure how I feel about it.

I AM baffled by her very mild response to him killing the Maulers, and it makes me nervous about what they plan to do with her. Debbie basically doesn't have any storylines going farther into the comic (her getting a job is really the one thing she ever does that's about her) so unless they start making shit up like in S1 she is going to becoming very extraneous, very quickly. Which is very saddening to me because I loved her so much in S1. Her revealing Mark and Oliver's identities to Paul in the comic is much more of a screaming match between her and Mark so I am very glad of the show's change there. My biggest gripes about her relationship w Paul in the comics has yet to come, so, we'll see if the show fixes anything there or not. Mostly though I do wish they were willing to completely rewrite that and just let her be single and have friends for a bit.

I think the show is just drawing out some things with Oliver, as he was more upfront at this point in the comics about being alien on an alien world he had no stake in, but at the same time the comics only ever seemed to use it as a shallow excuse rather than deep dive into what that could mean for the character.

Like, are you telling that 1) - he is just genetically predisposed to being a killer, which- WILD ass take to have in a narrative that so heavily features Nolan, a guy whose ENTIRE arc is about getting away from the edicts he was raised in and being able to change (not to mention the utter lack of this type of behavior in any Thraxan) or

2) he just picked that mind set up somewhere. To which the question begs, where? Supposedly he was raised by the (at the time) most emotionally available and non-homicidal version of Nolan there was, and Andressa, who very much was not presented with such a mindset. Mark and Debbie clearly didn't impart this to him! And the show fumbled here! Because they could have focused on the Levy attack. (Debbie does not get into a brawl w him in the comics, he just breaks her arm) They could have had him talk about that and how it shaped how he views 'bad guys' and what they're capable of! (in the comics Oliver remembers everything from when he was a baby) but no.

He's just special so he should get to kill people??

He could have been a fascinating way for Mark and him to explore what being children of an invader left on worlds that were invaded and given the legacy of the people who were conquered/near conquered from their mothers while struggling with being viewed as the invader their father was by everyone. but no. He's just an obnoxious child.

The show thus far has not brought up/has potentially written out the 'viltrumites are predisposed towards RAGE' thing that the comic had already brought up a few times by now. Which, they could be holding on to as a ~reveal for Oliver and Mark's smashy smash behavior, but dear god, we don't need biological determinism in a story about people changing. And they are aggressively screaming about reform and redemption these three episodes, so again, I would be very disappointed if the show did decide to include this.

While the reforms in the episode were weirdly presented as quasi-brainwashing, there were several times in the comic in which things like prison reform and changing how prisoners were handled were actually discussed in an interesting way so I'm hoping the show actually manages to keep that. Though at the end of the day, I never found Invincible's attempts at presenting multiple sides to a moral argument all that well done. But this IS a kick-punch universe and pretty much all problems are solved by kick-punching, and there is a point where I am just like 'yup. this is that kind of media and finding the line of where they could improve why they're kick-punching vs why are you kick punching this problem to begin with' can be wobbly.

Cecil's backstory wasn't altered in any way, and I get why a character like him is the way he is- but yeah, overall, there are basically not a lot of times where any other stances on hero'ing are really discussed. The narrative does ride real close to protagonist centered morality at times. Which is frustrating, because, no Mark, you just have no experience with this situation and no counter argument to what people are telling you!

When Eve quits heroing in the comics she goes to Africa, because this was the early 2000s and 'help people in Africa' was just what people said when they were going to do humanitarian work. What was she doing in Africa? Who knows. She was there. Very glad the show changed this. She also never went to college, so it'll be interesting to see where that story goes. Her entire kerfuffle in Chicago with the sink hole was also totally new to the show.

Of course, unless you were Mark, Allen, or Nolan, there was very little for you to do in the comics- so again, they're going to have to start adding stuff or things are going to get boring for a LOT of side characters fast.

God okay this got very long, if there was anything you were curious about that I missed let me know xD

#invincible chatter #ask #when I said I could ramble I meant it lol #kinda wank ?? not really intended as it

15 notes · View notes

danganronpasurvivoraskblog · 5 months ago

Note

What I love about Bowser Vs. Eggman is how the community as a whole has reacted. Normally vs debates can get quite toxic, especially if the victory is fairly controversal.

We didn't get that here, instead it was friendly ribbing, people making memes about one side shitting themselves when insert obsurce thing they can do from source material occurs, which ONLY works due to how long the Mario and Sonic franchises have been around for.

All kinds of fanart, memes and if you aren't that well knowledgable on either Mario and/or Sonic you are gonna learn a lot more about those two franchises. And then when the fight itself dropped what happened?

Everyone decided that Infinite was a little bitch that deserved to get Thomped, Metal Sonic was the MVP for the Eggman Empire and the post fight fanfics between Bowser Jr. and Sage, and of course loving the animation.

This has easily been the most fun Death Battle has become for a long while because the toxicity has receded and people doing what it was meant to be; enjoying the fight, enjoying both franchises and just apperciating their love for Death Battle.

This is most united the Death Battle community has been for a long while and I hope this lasts for a long time.

//Two things: One, it actually isn't that uncommon for post-episode discord to spark, despite what you might here. It's only for certain episodes, with Omni-Man Vs Bardock being the most recent one to earn it.

//But I believe that's Death Battle's fault, not because they got the verdict wrong, but that they kind of did a pretty crappy job at justifying their outcome. And besides, it's not like DB's opinion is the be-all-end-all. People are free to think what they want. They just take a more scientific route with it.

//And two: It still baffles me, in a good way mind, that there are FANFICTIONS being written about this episode. That is unheard of.

//Unless people made fanfics about other big hitter episodes like Goku Vs Superman 3 and I just didn't catch them.

//I'm almost hesitant to read them, because weirdly, I think my opinion of the fight could be soiled a little if I see someone else's representation of it. Not because I think these people are bad writers, but for me, that's kind of like having a golden trophy and scribbling over it in black whiteboard marker.

//Even I know that that is an objectively stupid opinion, especially since MORO went out of his way to include a post-battle scene of Eggman's troops being inducted inducted into Bowser's army, which lays the grounds for this kind of interpretation, and trust me, you will NEVER catch me discrediting fanfiction. EVER!

//It's just I don't think I want to see the aftermath or the continuation of this because, to quote Homelander, it was perfect. Perfect. Everything, down to the last minute details.

//Also, side note, the reason why it felt like Metal Sonic was carrying the whole Eggman Empire on his back during the fight is literally because that is the most realistic scenario for it. He's unquestionably the most powerful character in the episode barring probably only Bowser himself, and Death Battle didn't downplay him even slightly.

-Mod

#mod

13 notes · View notes

creepercraftguy · 6 months ago

Text

My Thoughts on OMNI-MAN VS BARDOCK

Death Battle made its triumphant return today, and I've decided I'm gonna start posting short reviews of each new episode that comes out.

This isn't gonna be a long-winded review, just me sharing my basic thoughts.

And I'll be putting all of my stuff under the cut so that I don't spoil it for anybody. Please, make sure, if you're interested, that you watch the episode first, and don't read on so that you don't get spoiled.

To start off with, the matchup itself did really interest me. I remember around the time that Omni-Man vs Homelander came out that people were trying to come up with ideas for who would be a better opponent for Nolan, because frankly, Homelander was an absolute piece of piss for him.

And everyone, including the companies that own both Invincible and The Boys, knew that going in. So it wasn't really a hyped episode for who would win or not, but more so what was actually going to happen during the fight itself. Creating a spectacle was more important than creating a fight.

Not that Omni-Man Vs Homelander was bad. It is actually one of my favourite DB's from its execution, but the fact was it was not a difficult fight for Omni-Man AT ALL.

So when people started to think of who would be a much fairer fight for him, and one that had a lot of connections, Bardock was a big one, and it wasn't hard to see why:

Both are powerful alien warriors who are known for...kind of being dicks. Nolan is a Viltrumite, a race of highly advanced, powerful beings who conquer and dominate other planets. His mission on Earth is initially hidden but later revealed to be part of this expansionist agenda. Bardock is a Saiyan warrior, a race known for their battle prowess and ability to get stronger after every fight. The Saiyans, under Frieza's rule, conquer planets, wiping out their inhabitants for Frieza’s empire.

Both are the blood-related fathers of their series protagonists, Mark, AKA Invincible, and Kakarot, AKA Son Goku, respectively.

Both characters suffered conflict with their own people. Omni-Man's conflict comes from the fact that he is torn between his Viltrumite duties and the love he develops for his family and Earth, and eventually, he decides to defy the Viltrumite empire to some extent after being confronted by Mark’s humanity. Bardock becomes disillusioned with Frieza and attempts to fight back after learning about Frieza's plan to annihilate the Saiyan race. While his resistance is ultimately futile, he still stands against his ruler in an effort to protect his people.

Both characters are initially presented as being ruthless, unforgiving, and bloodthirsty, but this changes over time (across multiple iterations in Bardock's case) Initially, Omni-Man is ruthless in his mission, killing thousands to assert Viltrumite dominance, showing little regard for human life. However, as he develops a bond with his family, especially Mark, he begins to reconsider his values.And while Bardock begins as a battle-hardened warrior who cares little for the planets he conquers, he undergoes a transformation when he learns of Frieza’s betrayal and seeks to protect his home and his son.

And a few more on top of that, but I'm not sure I need to go through all the connections myself.

So, I start this off with the analysis portions of the episode, and I immediately noticed something when I went through Nolan's analysis.

I know this probably has to do with Death Battle trying to preserve their budget and keep their independence up, but unfortunately, it seems that we no longer have any cutaway scenes showing Wiz and Boomstick. They host the show as always, but we don't actually physically see them at all, not even during the post-analysis.

This is kind of a shame because, while yeah, the cutaways are normally hit or miss, the jokes they try to make land a lot better with them.

But on the other hand, it does make retaining the information a lot better. And to the credit, the analysis really made it clear where each characters strengths lay.

Going into this, I was under the impression that Bardock held an advantage, because I know the Dragon Ball scaling goes way above the scaling of Invincible. However, when I actually saw some of the feats Nolan achieves in the comics, compared to Bardock's...honestly kind of messy timeline, I started to change my tune.

I still held out for hope for Bardock, but when the fight ended and Omni-Man took the win...I understood why.

So yeah, the analysis and post-analysis were good because it really made me understand how the fight went the way it did.

With that being said, this was, to no one's surprise, a much harder fight for Nolan than Homelander was. Saiyan's just ARE stupid powerful aliens, and Omni-Man would actually have to put in the work for a win as opposed to completely stunting on the guy.

Okay, so now for the fight. If I had to rank it on a scale of 1 to 10, I think I'd give it a solid 7.

That's no fault of DevilArtimis, or Death Battle themselves though. Unfortunately, with the respective abilities these guys are known for, there's a severe limit to what you can have them do in the span of a 5 or so minute fight.

Besides Bardock's ki blasts, neither really have any powers of their own that don't just involve beating the shit out of people, tearing them apart, and just sheer brutality, so ultimately, what you are left with is a battle that just shows these two evil daddies pounding each other.

And no, I'm not taking back my phrasing there.

However, while that does limit my enjoyment of the fight, it doesn't do so severely. There's still a lot to love about the clash.

I always like to talk about my thoughts on the voice acting, and in this case, Omni-Man was reprised by Tom Schalk (also previously voicing Kool-Aid Man, Dio, Spongebob, and Megatron) and Bardock was voiced by Kamran Nikhad (previously having voiced Sephiroth, Mario, Boba Fett, Black Adam, and Martian Manhunter)

Schalk is one of the best voice actors that Death Battle have in their cast. He killed it as a sinister, condescending, and stern Omni-Man in Omni-Man Vs Homelander, and though he doesn't speak nearly as much in this one, he does equally well as a despaired, enraged, protective Omni-Man too. He killed it once again. As for Nikhad, he was fine, but definitely not the same sort of inflections that Sonny Strait gives Bardock that make his voice so iconic. Just a minor complaint.

Another minor complaint I have is Bardock's model looks a little weird, at least the mouth movements do, especially when shown from the side, and Nolan's model is kind of uncanny because it's weird seeing Omni-Man in 3D. Sure, he's 3D in Mortal Kombat, but that's also a realistic art style that would have clashed with Bardock, so I'm glad they didn't go that route. Still cool though.

And props to DevilArtemis for doing what he could to keep you engaged with this fight, and capturing both characters behavior, transformations, attacks, and inflections really well with the movements.

Considering, as I already mentioned, this fight would not go as easily as the fight with Homelander did, Omni-Man's attacks feel a lot more damaging, and ferocious than they did in his previous episode. My favourite part of the fight is when he grabs Bardock's tail, brutally tears it off, and then just whip slaps him with it. Definitely in line with the Viltrumites knack for tearing people to bloody chunks.

And for Bardock, considering he's an early Dragon Ball guy, it's really good to see some more recent recontextualization and coverage for classic feats. Also, for some reason, this is the first time we're ever seeing an Oozaru in Death Battle.

If I have any complaints for the fight, Bardock's Death was...kind of flat. It was brutal, but I didn't expect it, nor want it, to be so graceful. But that's all I really have to say about it. The sequence itself was really solid.

And in case I didn't make it clear, while I DO like Bardock more than Nolan as a character, the result did not dissatisfy me because, like I said, it was explained very thoroughly, and very well, in a way that made me understand.

Also, two little side notes, I want to address my take on a few arguments that I kept on seeing in the build up to this episode, and when the episode dropped. The first being whether or not Bardock should have been allowed Super Saiyan, and how it was kind of unfair for Bardock to be given a composite version of his character. To that, I say this.

First of all, if Bardock wasn't given all of his abilities across his iterations, this fight wouldn't have been nearly as cool. If you have the choice between seeing Bardock go Super Saiyan, or not seeing Bardock power up and go gold, why would you ever choose the latter? Death Battle tried to justify their decision, but for me at least, they didn't really need to.

What I wanted to know, in regards to Super Saiyan's conclusion, is this: Would Bardock having Super Saiyan be the edge he needs to win the fight? And would he lose if he didn't have it?

If the answer is yes, then I take issue. Because I don't like it when characters in this series win all because of one minor feat they have, especially if that feat is only semi-canon, like Super Saiyan Bardock is. However, in this case, the answer is no.

Super Saiyan definitely gave Bardock a boost that put Nolan on the ropes, but it wasn't enough to net him a win. So there's no real issue because having Super Saiyan ultimately didn't affect the results, so I'm fine with it.

The second argument I keep seeing is that Omni-Man wouldn't have been able to take down that giant planet without the 2 other characters that were with him. In the comics, he needed the assistance of those two, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to do it.

However, I want to note that the point that DB were trying to make was that Nolan, even if he was a third of the power required to take down that planet, is still VERY CAPABLE of wiping out entire planets on his own, and far more efficiently than Bardock would be. Bardock's own planet-busting feats weren't even his; he was scaled off of King Vegeta, so that's honestly more of a loose connection than Nolan smashing the planet.

And it's not as if that feat alone is what gave Nolan the edge in the fight. He still had all the other stuff like smart atoms on his side.

I will quickly remind everyone that this was not a stomp for Omni-Man. Death Battles usually aren't stomps, and they show off what both characters are capable of by pushing them to the brink. The aforementioned Omni-Man Vs Homelander is only one of few examples of unfair stomp fights.

And the last thing I want to talk about is the music track, though I don't have much to say on it. I know that Brandon kind of struggled with this track, but he did a great job, as he always does. With that being said, I still like Diabolical Invincible Me more than Solid State Invincible, not because SSI is a bad track, but because DIM is just...SOOO good, by a large margin. In fact, SSI even takes lyrics and beats from DIM.

So that's about it...A REALLY solid comeback for Death Battle. Not one of my top fights, but definitely a super strong opener.

...

...Although I feel like I'm forgetting something...There was one other thing that I really liked but I can't quite remember-

...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-

#death battle #invincible #omni man #nolan grayson #dragon ball #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #bardock #dbz #review #thoughts and feelings

15 notes · View notes