#oh-lali-lali-lali-lalipop

[mysteriousdbzgt]

Uhh, hi! I felt like this would be a better place to ask this since it feels more like a personal/opinion question.... But do you think/predict that Kotetsu x Barnaby might become official in the new season? It's undeniable how the creators feel about their relationship... and how seemingly majority of the fanbase feels. Plus it feels like The Rising/end of the anime has been building towards it in a way. And with their already amazing work with FE. Just curious what someone so dedicated thinks!

Hi oh-lali-lali-lali-lalipop! Thank you for your ask. First of all, thanks for asking this question here on my personal (and also for the follow over on t&bftw, welcome aboard! :D) I think you can probably tell from here, that I’m a huge supporter of them becoming romantically involved lol I don’t shy about that here, but I like to present a more neutral stance over on my news dedicated blog, to not influence others of my personal opinions.

With regards to the new season, as much as I would be supportive of it, I unfortunately highly doubt that they would become “official” in S2 or anything in the future, but will remain extremely dedicated and attentive to one another, regardless of their constant bickering. The creators of the show are more than aware of the popularity of the “couple”, being constantly popular at doujinshi events and the continuous amounts of merchandise that they bring out, which regularly focuses on the main duo rather than all of the Heroes all the time. The fandom is primarily dominated by women, when originally the show was supposed to target men and “salarymen”, but attracted a completely different demographic that they hadn’t anticipated. I can only think that’s mainly because of the appeal of K&B. Also not helped by some of the staff’s, let’s just say, “unfiltered” thoughts when they discuss about K & B in older interviews, centering around “love” and other similar notions.

I think they still want to keep this series aimed towards a male demographic, even if the results don’t line up as they expect. But highly ironically, it’s what makes the show successful, so I doubt they would want to change how they portray Kotetsu and Barnaby’s relationship.

Personally I would be absolutely over the moon if they did become “official”, because they’re just perfect for one another (hehe) and it could just break so many standard conventions/boundaries on how media portrays same-sex relationships, if done appropriately, and not be labelled with any genre tags like “BL”, “yaoi” or anything similar, and still simply just be a “drama”, “superhero” tale, with the two main males eventually getting together but not make a big song and dance about it. If we want to normalise LGBT relationships within our media and what we consume, then we need to drop these tags and portray them in a healthy manner, which I think the show does well between them both. I believe that the staff have the talent to pull it off, they just need to be cautious on how they do it. Like you said, how FE is presented in the show which such great self confidence about themselves and who they are, really shows that they can write this. Also T&B’s spiritual successor show, Double Decker (who had a lot of the same staff) tackles some LGBT themes pretty well, so they could absolutely do it.

But yeah, I don’t think they’ll become “official” unfortunately. But if anything, I anticipate that KxB will most likely be working even closer together in S2, so they’ll be more in tune with one another, and possibly open up even more to each other than they did before. Hopefully they’ll be over the huge feuds and split apart phase, which The Rising focused on (they’ll still bicker all the time, but that’s just how they are), so we can see just how far their relationship has come and changed for the better.

Anyway this is probably way too long (sorry), but always interested to hear your thoughts too! :)

[mysteriousdbzgt]

Hello, oh-lalipop! (when I typed the whole name in my first post, it took me a second to realise the joke when I said it out loud, but made me lol xD) apologies for my lateness. Thank you for your wonderfully detailed reply and your honesty with me, along with the compliments. I really appreciate it and just love keeping everyone informed on all sides of the fandom, regardless of me being primarily in the Japanese side. My never ending love for this show is too strong lol

 Also welcome back to the fandom! It’s always nice to rediscover something and then appreciate it in different ways then when you originally consumed it. It’s very much due to your own personal growth and a maturing mindset which allows you to interpret a text in multiple different ways.  

Really interesting thoughts and totally agree, it’s amazing to reflect on just how much society has changed from 2011 and the active advocacy to push for greater representation within our media/society as a whole. I think it’s evident that recent media within the last 4-5 years (particularly media aimed towards a younger demographic to 30s, as there is a great demand from younger people for representation) have made more positive attempts to have better depictions of LGBTQ characters or side story plots within their content. Not always successfully told, mind you, but we’re still at the first phase (in my mind) of getting it right, so it can only get better as time goes by.  

I agree with you that I think Sunrise is very much going to stick their ground and not turn KxB’s relationship into a romantic one, but I can’t blame you for being hopeful! As said, the way the staff describe their relationship within interviews is very much on an emotionally deep basis and that it feels more than a simple “bromance”. Some of the quotes in the link absolutely demonstrates that. One of posts even makes mention of the “love is blind” phase (as the staff puts it) that Barnaby goes through at the beginning of the second arc, at the growing respect/fondness that he has for Kotetsu, regardless of his flaws. Or another example, The Rising’s opening song “Nemesis” by Novels has some rather intimately descriptive lyrics, which are depicted from Barnaby’s point of view, which makes you question who exactly does Barnaby want to be used by. And in canon T&B content also make some interesting implications. For example, in the “Side Tiger” OVA, when FE notices a set of fashion/model magazines in Kotetsu’s apartment, which feature a blond, curly haired attractive woman, whom Kotetsu apparently saw in a dream and started liking “for some reason”. Obviously it’s left up in the air to what that exactly means, but I’m sure most would interpret that as real life influences (aka Barnaby) maybe affecting the type of people that Kotetsu finds attractive. Particularly as his late wife Tomoe, is the very opposite in appearance of what he was originally attracted to (black, long straight haired women).

In The Rising, during the scene when Kotetsu realises that he misunderstood Barnaby’s objectives and rushes over to him to apologise, possibly hoping to rekindle their partnership, this scene very much emulates the typical “misunderstanding” and “rush to the airport” scenarios that we commonly see within the romance genre in media and would typically be in the very last act of a story and would conclude a couple’s relationship arc. T&B goes against slight conventions of that here though, because it happens at the middle section of the movie and they don’t actually “make up” at all during that moment (thanks Ryan!). That happens much later on in the story and really does truly conclude the build up of their relationship (up to that point now anyway, with S2 coming) with them both being on equal terms (well mostly, let the man drive the Double Chaser sometime Barnaby!). But it’s easy to recognise these sort of tropes from other genres and see it be emulated here (and not even in a parody sense, as it’s taken pretty seriously), although it’s not used in the typical sense, but it allows you to question it.

There are a lot of subtle examples throughout the series, and not just in the TV show but within T&B The Comic too, which demonstrates their caring, attentive mannerisms that they exhibit to each other throughout, even unconsciously so and continuously grow on. It’s wonderfully written, with a slow build (totally agree those are the best kind of ways to develop a relationship) and really is a great depiction of two people connecting in ways that they never could have imagined. You don’t really come to T&B for the flashy action, although it’s a nice bonus, because you could do that with any similar type of superhero based show. You come to T&B for the meaningful relationships, the characters and the human drama.

Also regarding Sunrise’s statement, which I completely understand your point of view on, I think we have to be mindful too that even though the blanket phrase “it’s up to the viewers to interpret them however they want” is slightly non-committal, but in the end will please all types of fans, because you’re technically not wrong on what you think, they could have just outright declined on answering the question or have instated an opinion, which would force viewers to interpret their relationship in one way. It doesn’t stop people from shipping characters together, even if the creators may have a clear vision on how they want you to see something, but it does disencourage other interpretations from being made. So I think we’re actually kind of oddly lucky, in the sense that they actually did say that and not just ignore it like most other creators tend to skip around, and particularly as it came from someone so higher up in Sunrise’s rank at the time (Ozaki Masayuki was the series’ and movies’ producer and is now president of Sunrise’s subsidiary company, Namco Bandai Pictures - T&B’s intellectual property rights transferred there too), so it does show a progressive way of thinking within the company, even back then.

I’m sure we all have a lot of expectations from season 2, so it’ll be interesting what happens and if they were to progress them further into a romantic relationship, I’m sure that it would be supported by many and be a general positive step forward. But in the event that they don’t, at least we’ll have our favourites back, doing what they do best and being there for each other, even during their emotional ups and downs, every step of the way, which I look forward to the most.

@mysteriousdbzgt: Hi oh-lali-lali-lali-lalipop! Thank you for your ask. First of all, thanks for asking this question here on my personal (and also for the follow over on t&bftw, welcome aboard! :D) I think you can probably tell from here, that I’m a huge supporter of them becoming romantically involved lol I don’t shy about that here, but I like to present a more neutral stance over on my news dedicated blog, to not influence others of my personal opinions. With regards to the new season, as much as I would be supportive of it, I unfortunately highly doubt that they would become “official” in S2 or anything in the future, but will remain extremely dedicated and attentive to one another, regardless of their constant bickering. The creators of the show are more than aware of the popularity of the “couple”, being constantly popular at doujinshi events and the continuous amounts of merchandise that they bring out, which regularly focuses on the main duo rather than all of the Heroes all the time. The fandom is primarily dominated by women, when originally the show was supposed to target men and “salarymen”, but attracted a completely different demographic that they hadn’t anticipated. I can only think that’s mainly because of the appeal of K&B. Also not helped by some of the staff’s, let’s just say, “unfiltered” thoughts when they discuss about K & B in older interviews, centering around “love” and other similar notions. I think they still want to keep this series aimed towards a male demographic, even if the results don’t line up as they expect. But highly ironically, it’s what makes the show successful, so I doubt they would want to change how they portray Kotetsu and Barnaby’s relationship. Personally I would be absolutely over the moon if they did become “official”, because they’re just perfect for one another (hehe) and it could just break so many standard conventions/boundaries on how media portrays same-sex relationships, if done appropriately, and not be labelled with any genre tags like “BL”, “yaoi” or anything similar, and still simply just be a “drama”, “superhero” tale, with the two main males eventually getting together but not make a big song and dance about it. If we want to normalise LGBT relationships within our media and what we consume, then we need to drop these tags and portray them in a healthy manner, which I think the show does well between them both. I believe that the staff have the talent to pull it off, they just need to be cautious on how they do it. Like you said, how FE is presented in the show which such great self confidence about themselves and who they are, really shows that they can write this. Also T&B’s spiritual successor show, Double Decker (who had a lot of the same staff) tackles some LGBT themes pretty well, so they could absolutely do it. But yeah, I don’t think they’ll become “official” unfortunately. But if anything, I anticipate that KxB will most likely be working even closer together in S2, so they’ll be more in tune with one another, and possibly open up even more to each other than they did before. Hopefully they’ll be over the huge feuds and split apart phase, which The Rising focused on (they’ll still bicker all the time, but that’s just how they are), so we can see just how far their relationship has come and changed for the better. Anyway this is probably way too long (sorry), but always interested to hear your thoughts too! :)  

Heya! Before I start I just wanna say thank you so much for taking the time to give me such a thorough reply, it is incredibly well thought out and written! I also want to say I am so freaking sorry you had to type out my monstrosity of a name (seriously didn’t think about that when making the joke lol). Oh, and I’m equally sorry for the formatting of the reply… really had no clue how to go about it, so I just defaulted to going about it the roleplayer way haha. Anyways, for starters, I think I should say that I actually agree with you a lot. You see, logically I think it feels highly unlikely they’d make them “official” in the new season. I’m not sure if I feel like it’s unlikely because I, someone who’s in the LGBTQ community, am a pessimist (aka, I’m negative regardless of proof) who is use to companies not delivering on it/assume companies won’t deliver on it…. or if I’m genuinely, but unconsciously, picking up on Sunrise’s stance of “not gonna happen”. Despite all that I still feel stupidly hopeful about it (y’know, heart louder than the mind and all that jazz)… and I guess for the sake of the discussion I’ll break down why! lol So, I got into the fandom…. around the time of The Rising, I think, so anywhere from 2014 to 2015. I instantly fell in love with it all, but I did end up falling out of the loop for awhile (being a teenager and all that). Recently (recently being that I finished S1 on Friday, watched The Rising on Sunday, and now I’m here lol) I got back into it and…. wow, a lot of it is the same, and…. at the same time it felt like I had so much more to process. It’s still as amazing as ever, if not even more so, and just like with everything else I love with my entire being I started to analyze it and read into it (maybe a little bit too much so lol).  In all honesty, KxB seriously stood out even more so than it did last time for me (I don’t know if it’s because I’m now accepting of my sexuality or what) and while it’s not actually the best part of the series to me (God, Barnaby’s arc means so much to me what with me struggling with cPTSD, but that story is best left on my RP blog) I do have to admit that the pairing is… incredibly meaningful, and beautiful. Moving for me, really.  I guess the following observations, and hopeful thinking that came after it, could be deduced to me just wearing shipper goggles, but considering my habit of over analyzing and breaking things down… I do try to make predictions and opinions logically, and with that in mind it’s why I’m so stuck on the “hopeful thinking”, since a tiny bit of logical thinking is fueling it. Tiger & Bunny is about human relationships, really. For a show focusing on NEXTs… it’s really about humanity, corruption, society, relationships… and KxB all along the first season is written as an undertone, like a slow burn (which is entirely fitting, and seriously makes any relationship better), which fits because the first season is, in actuality, not focused on that (the plot being bigger than we can see and all that). In the end, having rewatched it, I also noticed how, really, the undertone is written in such a way that…. it feels like Barnaby is the one with the “crush” (or is the first one to realize it) which… kinda fits with the old statements from the crew. Kotetsu the forever oblivious one who hasn’t had an epiphany yet (although if I’m being honest, The Rising seems to have this “side-plot” feeling of Kotetsu having the epiphany when he realizes what he’s lost, which is what I meant by the flow of the series somewhat feels like it’s building towards it)…  …. There’s also the whole “leaving it to interpretation thing” they said back then. Which, I have to agree with some other people that it feels like it’s just a way of saying “it’s romantic but we don’t want to take that risk”…. and that was back around 2011. It’ll have been decade since then when S2 is released, and, while a decade is just a decade, a lot has changed on a societal basis since then. Even during this decade long gap Sunrise has become more bold with their representation, whether it be Double Decker! or The Rising…. almost like they’re testing the waters…  and what better way to champion representation than to make two main characters the representation? This franchise is… so human in it’s story, and the meaning doing such a thing would have for so many people… in a way, I think out ways some of the risks. I feel like the build up is there, the want is there (tbh seeing posts on tumblr of people talking about how they hope they’ll get a kiss in S2 or something “official” like that also fueled this)… it just depends on whether they’ll feel afraid or not. Which is, really, why I asked for your opinion. You do such good work at trying to bridge the gap between the Japanese fandom/Sunrise and the English speaking community (which, btw, you are amazing at, I can’t thank you enough for the work you do), and I knew you’d be more informed on Sunrise’s attitude and statements, as well as the general opinions and depositions of the Japanese fans. In the end, I can “read into” things all I want, but it won’t matter if you can’t understand the one who pulls the strings… and because of that I wanted to know your opinion.  I’m so so sorry this got so long!! I’m really horrible at summarizing myself, so this turned into a major ramble…. I’m gonna wrap it up now before this turns into a novel haha. Again, thank you so much for responding to my question and for being open to discussing it, it means so much! I truly respect your opinion, since it helps me clear my own thoughts, as well as gives me a dose of reality so I don’t get my hopes up too much… I guess in the end though, a part of me is going to continue to think that they just might have the heart to do it, irregardless lol. I look forwards to seeing what you have to say about what I’ve written here!