#oddnub-eye

[finnlongman]

Why does do Irish names seem to like...I don't know a good word for it but maybe like "mutate" or "shift" when used in a Patronymic/Possessive Context?

Like, the obvious example is Culann -> Chulainn when used in Cu Chulainn, but also Cumhall to Cumhaill in Fionn Mac Cumhaill

Is there a particular rule in the grammer regarding this, or is more of a case-by-case basis due the development of the language in writing or something similar to that?

Thank for your time and I hope you have a great day.

It's the genitive case (tuiseal ginideach). If you see the word "of" in an English translation ("son of", "hound of", etc), it usually means that the next word will be in the genitive. It applies across the language, not only in names, but it's easier to spot them in names since you'll often have the nominative form nearby to compare it with! Because English doesn't have grammatical cases, these rules can be confusing to English speakers, but they have a lot of parallels in other languages.

Medieval Irish had five cases: nominative, accusative, dative, genitive, and vocative (which is hardly a case, to be honest). Accusative and dative sort of collapsed into each other and now aren't very clearly marked out in modern Irish, though you'll see them in some words, particularly to do with directions and movement. Nominative, genitive, and vocative remain pretty solidly present.

Some explanations of the genitive here:

[vivienna-vivid]

Favorite of the 108 Stars of Destiny?

HOW did tumblr not notify me of my brother in arms' message? Death to this Hellsite. Sun Erniang, easy-peasy. I love all the important stars but this cannibal inn keeper has me by the choke hold. They hate her for her girly whimsy. And the atrocities and lack of impulse control.

[karthedense]

Fighting Game Ask: Justice

Am i a fan?: NO

Favorite move?:

Favorite quote: Justice what the fuck are you talking about

Favorite story line?: ride wife, wife fight, kill wife, wife gone, Kill wife, wife gone, Kill wife, wife gone

Enjoy playing as?: Depends how sinister i'm feeling

changes i would make: Make the grab box for the move above 3times bigger

unpopular opinions: Brain fungus

[oidheadh-con-culainn]

Does the O'Rahilly translation contain both recensions in one Volume or are they sold separately? I've been looking around for em for a while but haven't pulled the trigger yet because I can't figure if I'm supposed to buy both or just one.

they're published separately. recension 1 (1976) is published as "táin bó cúailnge: recension 1", and contains the edited irish text and the translation. book of leinster (1967) is published as "táin bó cúalnge from the book of leinster" and contains the edited irish text and the translation, with a slightly more detailed introduction. stowe (1961) is published as "the stowe version of táin bó cúailnge" and contains only the edited irish text, a select glossary, and an introduction; there is no translation in this text.

(o'rahilly did not edit r3, r3 is incredibly fragmentary and has been edited half by nettlau and half by thurneysen in two different academic journals, these are online somewhere i think. you don't need to bother with r3 99% of the time, most academics generally forget it exists / don't include it in discussions because there's not really enough of it to sustain arguments a lot of the time, unless you're looking at something really specific that happens to show up in those fragments!)

both recension 1 and book of leinster are available to read on CELT, in irish and in english, so if it's purely for reading purposes, that's super useful. but for line numbers and stuff the physical copies come in handy (and for aesthetics).

whether you get just one or all of them really depends on what you want. i bought recension 1 first because it was in their black friday sale a few years ago and i could get it cheaply, and that was useful, but for the work i was doing at the time i wanted the book of leinster version, so i acquired that one a couple of months later. i didn't bother buying stowe because of the lack of translation, until i was doing work that required translating parts of stowe and figured it would be easier if i had my own copy -- i'd photocopied some pages from the library but it wasn't really cutting it, especially as i wanted to flip back and forth to the glossary

if you aren't in a position to work directly with 15th century irish (most people aren't) then there is no point buying stowe, frankly. but whether you want both of the others or just one is up to you! most people think the book of leinster text is "better" -- the redactors smooth out the story, get rid of a lot of the continuity errors (not all of them), and make it more of a continuous narrative, plus it has the extended 'comrac fir diad' episode with the 4-day fight, compared to r1's 1-day fight. so if you want a readable narrative and/or are focused on ferdia etc, i'd go for book of leinster in the first instance. however, r1 has slightly more supernatural/otherworldly stuff, with marginally more emphasis on the role of the morrígan and lug, since book of leinster really understates those elements. so if that's your interest, you want r1.

but if you're having to pay big shipping costs to buy them from ireland then to some extent you might as well get them both at once if your budget will stretch to it lol. it definitely changes your perspective on the story to start engaging with it on the recension level and understand how the priorities and emphasis shift from one version to another, it really disrupts your thinking of it as a set narrative and lets you see it as something much more complex and fluid, which it is

when i first started working with recensions i hated it but now it's like the first thing i do when i'm interested in a new strand of it, is go see how each version tackles that strand

as i say though, you can read o'rahilly's translations of r1 and LL on CELT, so if it's purely reading you want, you do not need to spend €35/€70 on buying one/both of them unless you wish to!

[siverfanweedo]

GOT tagged by my pal @gunsli-01 thought it would be fun and uh gonna tag um @oddnub-eye @vivienna-vivid and uh idk who else if you want to do this consider yourself tagged

do it if ya want go crazy go loco

1. Do this uquiz.

2. Do this picrew.

3. Tag people.

[karthedense]

@oddnub-eye

pretty fly for a white guy johnny video 👍

[gae-bolg-alternative-dot-exe]

One Piece: The Stampede for the film ask

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | fun | great | favorite | masterpiece

One Piece Gold is still my favorite one piece movie but I still had a fun time watching stampede with friends eventhough it may have been too chaotic and somehow also simple for it's own good.

The out of nowhere tone shift halfway though with Usopp telling Luffy he's not worthy of being in his crew anymore and to move on to become the pirate king without him as he was dying was legitimately hilarious because of how weirdly serious and sudden it was.

[vivienna-vivid]

Trick or Treat

This post, the Kali section in the Women's Encyclopedia, as well as these books.

Enjoy!

[karthedense]

📺👨‍👩‍👧‍👦🏷

Unryu

📺: Is your OC inspired at all by characters from other media? Which one(s) and what traits do they have in common?

-the Spark that made me start developing his lore was without question first ignited when i first read Vagabond and his design is influenced by Guts from berserk, Him later losing an eye to Zenos in Stormblood was inspired by such. But much of his character arc i believe was on it's own with any influences being subconscious at best

👨‍👩‍👧‍👦: What is their family like? Are there any family members that are particularly influential and/or important to them (whether in a positive or negative sense)?

-I'm not gonna give a full answers as your still progressing thru the game and wanna see you go thru some stuff before i give certain details

Unryu's relantionship with his family was overall very positive Albeit abit stressful from living under garlemald as non-citizens

Unryu spent the most time with his Mother who taught him to work the forge when he was young and was often a protective figure in his youth, pulling him away from things that could put him in danger when he was under her watch Granted with how large he grew up to be he didn't need that watch for much longer

His dad he treasures alot. If you asked Unryu who he thought the wisest person on the planet was he'd answer his dad rather than any famed Sharlayan scholar. His morals of avoiding violence unless it becomes unavoidable were something that stuck particularly close with Unryu and was part of the reason he wanted to dodge conscription. So he wouldn't be forced to fight when he didn't wanted to

His grandfather, old and bitter as he is initially scared Unryu when he was a small child but nearing his teens he began talking to him alot more he began telling him how Doma was before Garlemald and the horror stories of the war between the two nations which the old man fought in himself

leaving them behind was a hard choice for him to make but he felt it was either be forced to rob some other poor bastard of his home or run away from his.

🏷️: What is their full name? Do any of their names have any special meaning? How did you come up with them?

-Unryu Gesi! Unryu meaning cloud dragon, Initially named after a japanese war ship because i wanted a nautical theming to his name. But if you look at my answer to Mac's questions you'd see that Unryu retroactively took up a weather motif as well, funny how that is. The Gesi is one of the many Xeala tribes of the Azem steppe that his Grandma, Bayaarma Gesi came from While he's yet in the context of where your at in the game to step foot in the steppe themselves he still holds pride in his partial Xeala ancestry.

[oidheadh-con-culainn]

okay yeah i have THOUGHTS about this

and they turned out. really long. so i'm gonna have to put them under a cut else everybody will get an essay. it's literally 1500 words i'm so sorry. please bear in mind that i am not in the same city as any of my books right now bc i'm with my family for christmas, so i am relying entirely on notes and texts that have been digitised, and it's possible i will miss things as a result. i'm doing my best

so

as @oddnub-eye observed, fergus is present, which implies it occurs before longes mac nuislenn, since after that he's in exile in connacht. however, longes mac nuislenn is generally problematic in that regard because it says that he was in exile for sixteen years, and, well, cú chulainn is only seventeen and the boyhood deeds part of the táin says that fergus was around for at least some of his childhood, so we ALREADY have problems there, and that's with the text that is supposed to directly related to LmU! goddammit LmU

(the early modern version condenses the timeline and makes an effort to explain why cú chulainn wasn't involved -- bc he would've killed everyone -- but we are focusing on the medieval version here)

another text that is problematic to reconcile with LmU is mesca ulad, since in that text cú chulainn is clearly an adult (has a foster son, furbaide, not something he would be legally eligible to do as a teenager when he's still in fosterage himself, as far as i understand the laws), and yet the sons of uisliu are present, suggesting it happens before LmU, which happens before the táin, which happens when cú chulainn is 17. but sure, whatever, mesca ulad and longes mac nuislenn are pretty separate as stories, so i'm happier to let that one be a garbage pile of chronology. it's the fact that LmU doesn't make sense with TBC that has me tearing my hair out because it SHOULD and it NEEDS TO for TBC to make sense

ahem

so where does this leave serglige con culainn

well. let's set aside the fergus evidence because we have seen that that is deeply unreliable. plus it's entirely possible he could've come back to hang out with cú chulainn much later on when things were less drama, so he's not an accurate temporal marker

who else is present who might allow us to slot this story into a timeline?

obviously the story is in two halves and in the first half, cú chulainn's wife is eithne, and in the second half, it's emer, so we probably have two different traditions we're working with. that complicates things. doesn't help with chronology except that it has to happen after tochmarc emire (at least the second half!), but most things do because cc was weirdly young in that, so that's fine. moving on

NEXT. lugaid of the red stripes. now this is an interesting one. he's cú chulainn's foster son -- again, suggesting adult cú, suggesting post-táin, but we've seen from MU that this is not entirely reliable. lebor gabala erenn claims lugaid is supposedly enough of an adult to become king 5 years after conaire dies (see: togail bruidne da derga) which opens a whole can of chronological worms bc wtf. so. this suggests Properly Grown Up Cú Chulainn Who Has Adult Foster Kids, and like ??? he dies at 33 ?? how does that even work ?? CHRONOLOGICAL PROBLEM ZONE.

BUT LOOK! we don't even need to go to LGE for that detail, because serglige con culainn references the need for a king after the death of conaire! and that they're gonna pick lugaid! wow, is this continuity? ... not quite, since it says it's been 7 years of interregnum, whereas LGE says 5 and the annals of the four masters say 6. BUT STILL. this does tell us one thing for sure: this story is supposed to happen seven years after togail bruidne da derga. this does not help us place it with regard to the táin, particularly, since cú chulainn is Notably Not In TBDD -- it's another one where conall gets to play a more significant role. but we're getting closer i think

who is involved in this kingship process? well, we have a reference here to cú roí, so it must be before the death of cú roí (he also shows up in fled bricrenn and mesca ulad iirc; remember that, it might be useful). we also have a reference to finn mac ross and erc mac caipri. that doesn't tell us too much, but it helps a little, bc cú chulainn kills erc's dad carpri during cath rúis na ríg, which is explicitly positioned as a sequel to táin bó cúailnge. this fact is not referenced in serglige con culainn. since carpre's death is one of the reasons erc allies with medb against cú chulainn to kill him, i feel like it Would Be Mentioned if it had happened and he was pissed about it. so there is a strong chance that CRR hasn't happened yet, and since it follows fairly directly on from TBC, that suggests we are pre-TBC

BUT we are in an alternate timeline where pre-TBC cú chulainn is an adult, and also his wife, for half the story, is eithne

and this, i think, is crucial

because we cannot / should not necessarily understand this story as existing in a timeline where the táin happened at all. perhaps there is more than one ulster cycle timeline: one in which cú chulainn was an adult when conaire mór was killed, has been raising foster sons, and eventually experiences both mesca ulad and serglige con culainn, with fergus and the sons of uisliu still in ulster, and then a separate strand, in which the events of the táin go down when he's 17, followed at various points by cath rúis na ríg, cath findcorad (the second one), and oidheadh con culainn, among others (aided chon roí has to be in here somewhere because his son lugaid is a major player in OCC, i'm just too tired to figure out where)

and possibly infinite other strands

it's not that NONE of these stories join up -- SCC explicitly positions itself in relation to TBDD! CRR is explicitly a sequel to TBC, mentions Cath Findcorad at the end of it, and then OCC starts by referencing both CRR and CF! so there are like, internal threads you can follow from one stories to another. but not EVERY story joins to every other story, and i posit that the reason it's so hard to make SCC fit in with TBC is because it's from a different thread. possibly even two different threads, because i can't stress enough that this story is in two distinct halves and in one of them cú chulainn has a completely different wife whom, iirc, isn't referenced anywhere else, so might point to a completely different tradition that didn't survive, or to this one author's OC

the fact that cú roí shows up in mesca ulad and fled bricrenn is imo another indicator that this story should belong in that thread more than the TBC thread (i think he is also mentioned in TBC though so this is not like. A Diagnostic Criterion, it's just a thing to note), likewise the absence of super animosity from others who hate CC in the TBC-CRR-CF-OCC thread

sorry this is getting really long. but anyway here we have multiple strands:

doomed hero strand. cú chulainn is a teenager/20-something and a glorious hero above all others and is going to die young. tochmarc emire - tain bo cuailnge - cath ruis na rig - cath findcorad (btw this is lost, we just know it existed bc there are refs to it) - brislech mor maige muirthemni / oidheadh con culainn. among others.

just some guy strand. cú chulainn is an adult hero who may or may not have been a king at some point, has foster sons, is a fully integrated member of society. i don't have a proposed chronology for these but it would include mesca ulad, serglige con culainn, and a few other Problematic Tales. this also includes togail bruidne da derga, because it's referenced in SCC, but cú chulainn isn't in that. that's fine, because in this strand, he's just some guy! it's other people's turn! i don't know where i'd put fled bricrenn. probably here? but at the same time it is kinda Special Hero Cú Chulainn so it might need to be in its own strand. would need to look at it again to decide

late adventure tales strand. cú chulainn is our favourite character and we're going to write stories about him :) e.g. toruigheacht gruaidhe griansholus, eachtra na gcuradh etc. these are generally late (17th-18th century) and also don't necessarily map onto the medieval tales at all, chronologically, so they need to be treated separately to some degree

thus i would not say that SCC happens before or after TBC, but in an alternate universe. they're going down a different leg of the ulster cycle trousers.

having said that, if i were trying to unify it, i would probably put it after, simply based on vibes and the fact that CC seems like an adult and not like the disaster murder teen he would be before TBC. but the text itself does not provide solid evidence for this, as far as i can tell

Does anyone have specific ideas as to where they’d put Serglige Con Chulainn in the vague ass ulster cycle timeline?

[tainbocuailnge]

Okay, I kinda get the Butterfly thing, but what's the deal with Centipedes?

centipedes are tied to kegare, impurity as result of death or disease. it's not a moral judgement but the natural result of amoral natural forces, but it still must be cleansed carefully to avoid inviting more death and disease. this one's a little trickier in fate cuz there's a lot of butterflies but only a few centipedes and two of the centipedes are also butterflies but it's like, whereas the butterfly dreams of being human the centipede simply lives its cursed life. the butterfly completely changes itself in hopes of "becoming something" but the centipede either has no such dream or simply no such option, it spreads impurity not because it is sinful or revels in it but because such is its existence. cu alter and vortigern also don't want to be doing what they're doing but they Gotta. you could say it's a degree of self acceptance that the butterflies lack but that of course immediately gets negated by the centipedes that are also butterflies

centipedes by being bugs still have that quality of being hard to get rid of because another one will appear to let the cycle of violence continue but they're not as fragile as other bugs because when you have a whole mass of centipedes it looks like one really long centipede that will kick your ass and wrap around your mountain until some heian warrior kills it for you so thats what cu alter and vortigern lean into to become continent scale threats. mephy can't pull that one off because he's basically just collecting symbolism that makes him look evil because he's a baby with a job and that job is to be the devil so no world destruction centipede powers for him (yet...?)

[oidheadh-con-culainn]

If you had to rank Cú Chulainn, Laeg, Emer, Ferdiad, Conall Cernach, Deidre, and Liath Macha from worst to best dancer, how would you rank them?

cú chulainn is obviously the best dancer and not just in the ILP universe. the reason i made him a dancer in that is because the descriptions of his feats sounded like dance/gymnastics more than any more traditional martial art, so essentially he has canon Dance Skillz

by extension then fer diad is going to be next because they are almost equals on the battlefield and have almost all of the same feats

conall is probably next, because he is also a very skilled and speedy fighter, and thus likely has similar skills. however i don't remember as many descriptions of him doing fancy feats etc so that's why he is not higher on this list

láeg is next because he spends too much time with cú chulainn not to pick things up (also for what it's worth if we are using martial skill as an indicator for dance ability, he does a few Very Casual murders and doesn't even seem to break a sweat, so...)

emer is after that. you would think she would be higher since dance is often seen to be a gendered skill that more girls do than boys, but she doesn't seem to be very good at having female friends, because she gets a bit stabby when she feels like her position is being threatened, so i can't see her spending a bunch of time with them when she doesn't have to TBQH. she gets invited to parties but she probably doesn't dance much. just watches everyone and judges them. she dances with cú chulainn sometimes though. and with láeg. so she's not like... TERRIBLE. i just don't think it's her top interest.

deirdre is after this. she grew up almost completely isolated so, limited opportunities to learn how to dance. leborcham may have taught her but i'm not sure how well she'd have taken to it.

liath macha is the worst because the liath macha is a fucking horse and horses suck at dancing

[siverfanweedo]

Cutter and Ophelia for the attractiveness meme

Cutter: Adorable As much as i love Cutter she isn't my wife but she is very cute Ophelia: LORD MERCY In some ways it feels weird saying this cuz like idk. I really think Ophelia is 10/10 looks and i love her deeply why did Nasu do this to me and my wife.

[karthedense]

@oddnub-eye

Originally drawn: 15 Oct 2022

fortnite

[versegm]

Where do you read the fate apocrypha light novels?

Baka-tsuki is your ally for all and any non-licensed light novel out there.

[finnlongman]

Hi, hope you're having a good day. Your posts about OCC got me thinking: without one of the "supernatural" variables in Cú Chulainn's death - would it have succeeded? Like if they had the spears but didn't get him to break his geis/geass (whichever is the proper spelling) or if they still got him to eat the dog meat but didn't have the spears. Basically, how much of a "everything had to go right" situation do you think the plan was? (Also, do both those elements appear in OCC or are they Aided exclusives?) Thank you for your time and I hope you have a great day.

This is a good question! And honestly, one I feel I'm not fully equipped to answer right now, but will be able to tackle with more confidence once I've got further through translating OCC.

The various supernatural elements do appear in OCC, but they're not identical to the versions in BMMM. For example, the spears in OCC were forged by Vulcan, and Clann Cailitín got them on a trip to Hell; that's a detail that doesn't show up in BMMM. (Though we are missing the beginning in the Book of Leinster, so some details may have fallen out of the narrative that used to be there. But I think they are firmly attributed to human craft, not random appearances of Classical gods.) If I remember rightly, the dog meat incident also goes down slightly differently. OCC has most things that are in BMMM, but greatly elaborated on and extended, because it's much longer; the details are what differ rather than the broad outline of the plot.

I think to some extent all of these supernatural elements are there for narrative purposes. They're setting up the inevitability of Cú Chulainn's fall: every sign, every prophecy that he ignores or is unable to act upon, is further foreshadowing what's coming. This kind of inevitability often shows up with gessi/geasa (pick your spelling according to what century you're hanging out in right now!) – in Togail Bruidne Da Derga, from the moment Conaire's prohibitions are listed, we know that somehow, before the end of the story, they'll be broken. Like Shakespeare opening Romeo & Juliet by telling us this is going to end in blood: they're a warning to the audience. This is inescapable. This ending has been marked out since before the story actually began.

Within the narrative, though... I'd have to go back to BMMM to speak for that, but in the section of OCC I've been looking at the last couple of days, Conchobar and the Ulaid certainly seem concerned that an "unfair combat" of Cú Chulainn vs a massed army would kill him. They don't know about the Hell-forged spears, and none of the rest has been mentioned on page yet, so they're basing their concern purely on ordinary combat rules. That certainly implies that Cú Chulainn is at risk even if the supernatural conditions aren't met, but the Ulaid might also be wrong, since Cú Chulainn has a history of defying the odds in battle.

But the men of Ireland believe they need all of those extras to kill him – all the magic and the learning and dozens of allies and so on. Which has the effect of casting Cú Chulainn as a mythical monster who can't be taken down through human means; this is a dragon-slaying expedition more than a murder plot. And if they believe it, who's to say they would have succeeded if they acted against their belief? Perhaps their doubt would have made them fail. They're living in a story too, and obeying its rules.

Maybe I'll think differently about this once I've actually got further with OCC – every paragraph I translate ends up answering questions I didn't know I had, and filling in gaps I hadn't realised were left by the summaries I read before. But that's where I'm at right now. They're there because they're setting up the story, but the characters as much as the audience are bound by the rhythms and rules of narrative.