#obviously being an israeli citizen doesn’t necessarily mean you support israel

[redheadbigshoes]

Wow I am so surprised this person who uses terf rhetoric also supports Israel /s

[thedreadvampy]

All I'm saying is a) proportional response is important, as is recognising that humour ABOUT a bad thing is not necessarily equal to humour IN FAVOUR of a bad thing. For example, 4chan 'jokes' about the Holocaust are different to eg a dry remark wondering why Jewish people might conceivably be iffy about fascism. A joke about how funny it is that liberals are whining about the popular vote has different connotations to a joke about how unjust a system which allows a person to lose the popular vote and win the presidency may be. Here in the UK, many people joke about 'remoaners' when it comes to Brexit, whereas those of us who voted remain tend to joke sarcastically about how Theresa May, our unelected PM, TOTALLY has a mandate, or about how 52%:48% OBVIOUSLY qualifies as a landslide. You see how jokes ABOUT an issue can come from all sides of an issue? And, like, I'm not about the fallacy of relative privation, but when everything's so awful, is it really vital to police anyone making any kind of humorous comment about any negative aspect of American politics? Comedy comes from a place of pain. It's a way of making difficult, horrific events comprehensible. Laughing at a thing doesn't mean we've forgotten it's bad. I laugh like a hyena at alt-right blogs and terfs because they're SO AWFUL HOW CAN THEY EVEN EXIST. It's funny because it's absurd in its badness. b) hoo boy this is a big one but let's talk about America's role in global praxis. as an American you (generic you, idk who's American bc you're all on anon) have every reason and right to prioritise American issues and politics, but legitimately, give me a good reason why the sorry state of American politics should be more important or relevant to me than Russia, Turkey, Greece, Belarus, Ukraine, France, Germany, Austria, Norway, or for that matter North Korea, the Congo, the Philippines, the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, India, Palestine, Israel, Syria, Mozambique, Bolivia, Brazil, wherever. There are currently political crises everywhere, why is yours the only one that matters? I'm not American. I'm British. I'm European. I have as much or more in common with French or Austrian or Greek or Maltese citizens as with Americans. America is further away from me than Syria or Chad or the UAE. The political situation is more dire in Russia or the Philippines or Somalia. What makes America so fucking special? I'm not even a little bit ok with how things are shaking down over there. It's fucked up, the state America's in, the Flint crisis, DAPL, racial hatred, trans murders, institutional homophobia and ableism. It's not the fault of the victims, and it's awful that this is happening to them (/you). It makes me unbelievably sick and angry. HOWEVER, why is it expected that this be more personal to me than the situation in any other country or, hell, even my own. If I hear one more fucking word about how Brexit is really about Trump or how we should learn from what happened with Trump or how strategic voting let Trump in so we should discourage tactical voting in a WHOLLY DIFFERENT electoral system with almost no commonality with America's, I will chew my own face off in frustration because Americans en masse don't appear to understand that the rest of the world isn't a fucking prop for America. We have our own shit going on, and our own shit is not just a reflection of what's happening in America, it's unique, it's equally important and AMERICA IS AS MUCH PART OF A GLOBAL PATTERN OF BEHAVIOUR AS ANYONE ELSE, it does not solely dictate the way the world goes and the world is not an object lesson for Americans. France narrowly escaped fascist leadership the other week. Britain is in the process of violently tearing itself apart. Ukraine and Russia are chomping at the bit to start shit. During Eurovision, for literally the only time in the year, Tumblr is focused on European (and Australian and Israeli, for some reason) politics and culture and interactions, and somehow from all that you still fucking manage to make it about how bad America has it, as if Europe is all sunshine and roses, as if you're the only ones who suffer, as if Russia doesn't have fucking CONCENTRATION CAMPS and Europe isn't being overrun by fascists and the EU isn't cracking apart and Turkey isn't in civil war. Fuck off. Out of a sea of political jokes, ONE crack at the expense of American politics gets popular and you are fucking falling over yourselves to make it about America and how much America suffers. I don't wanna say we don't care, because we do care. Hugely. We try to do what we can, sometimes at the expense of fighting the battles we need to fight for our own wellbeing. In Edinburgh, far more people showed up to march against Trump than to march in support of the NHS or against Brexit or to counter the EDL. WE'RE ON YOUR SIDE, America, but please, FUCK OFF. We have our own battles to fight as well, and I don't see Americans marching against Brexit or Putin or Erdogan. Why? Because as far as American media and American activism is concerned, it is the natural way of things that everyone care about everything America does, but America only needs to hear about things that affect America. Fucking...name any other country's second in command without looking it up, I dare you. Yours is Mike Pence. Explain any non-American electoral system, because we're all constantly exposed to yours. And tell me why I should care more about the suffering of Americans than the suffering of Russians or of Sudanese or of my own countrymen. America always has to think it's the biggest and best, even when that means the best at being the worst and most oppressive and most fucked up. M8, America, it was hard for Britain to learn and it's hard for you. YOU AREN'T FUCKING SPECIAL.

[pocinperioddramas]

Haha whoops, I forgot to say that if you want sources for any of the stuff I mentioned I can track them down for you - the comments were just way too long already. (Thanks again for the thoughtful, civil conversation. I'm trying to find a non-patronizing-sounding way to say I was nowhere near as mature and self-aware as you in high school and I can't, but I swear I don't mean it that way, I just admire that. It took me way longer and I'm not even sure I'm there yet.)

So to start with I’m glad you’ve put so much thought into this. I personally as kind of uncomfortable bringing it up, as I *know* I’m not super well-informed on Israel, but I didn’t feel I could say nothing. With that knowledge in mind, I tentatively support a two-state solution - I’m not sure whether it’s relevant if it could *realistically* happen without further bloodshed - if it TECHNICALLY could, that’s probably what matters. (I’m maybe not expressing myself well - it’s like how a lot of things in Canada/USA which are technically possible are realistically less possible because of conservative obstruction, but we still aim for them.) Or even just… LESS bloodshed then right now.

There’s a post going around that GG posted on fb that’s getting a lot of flak, but the actual post specifically condemns Hamas, not Palestine, and her statements in the post support coexistence - and, yes, young IDF soldiers, but military service is compulsory in Israel - I know I feel for any young people drafted or convinced into combat. Like - it’s still okay to have an issue with her support of the military (although, like I said, her service wasn’t a choice and she wasn’t in combat), but a lot of the problem I think is that her service in/support of the Israeli military is being scrutinized and condemned, while celebrities like, say, Adam Driver, who supports the American military HARDCORE, like, complete with fundraising and stuff, go completely unscrutinized and uncondemed despite the US military’s own horrible track record/activities.

Last thing I think - it’s been my understanding that the creation of Israel created so many problems due to mistakes/racism/anti-Semitism by Western powers, and not Israelis or Jewish people in general. I don’t know how accurate that is - but it complicates the idea of Israel as ‘colonialist.’ (Although obviously the affect on Palestine has been… unjustly detrimental, to put it obscenely mildly.) I’d feel way more comfortable letting a Jewish person speak on this.

I know you’re looking for a mod - have you considered looking for a Jewish perspective, not specifically, but maybe as a desirable thing? Erm. Sorry for length, I didn’t intend for that number of replies. Thanks again for giving this so much thought. (VERY different experience from the last time I sent a blog I like a message like that tbh.)

Hello again, thanks for all your replies! :) I will respond to all of them here, by the way, for easier reading and so there will be not too many replies in that one post alone.

I understand your point about a realistic solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict not being that relevant as of now, as that wouldn’t be very easy especially if there is still obstruction from self-interested parties, and you make a fair parallel to the situation there in Canada and the US. So yes, at the very least, less bloodshed than before would be something to aim for, which will hopefully eventually lead to the war’s end and full peace at last.

I saw a screenshot of that post - that was the very post for which people began truly disliking and condemning Gal for since it’s so explicit in its support of IDF. She brings up Hamas in that post - but Hamas can be interpreted as either a fundamentalist group of terrorists or a grassroots organization of freedom fighters, depending on your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict/war in Gaza. To be honest, I don’t know what my stance on Hamas is yet, as I’ve read contradicting information about the group and I don’t know what to believe as of now. But there is apparently one falsehood that Gal perpetuates about Hamas in that post, whether or not you believe them to be terrorists or noble freedom fighters - she says that Hamas is using Palestinian women and children as human shields, something which has apparently already been disproven by a number of major news organizations (see here and here for more information).

Here’s an important quote from the 2nd article I linked that I find relevant:

“Speaking up for the Palestinians does not mean you are supporting Hamas or even are anti-Israel. It is just impossible to ignore the facts. In this so-called “war” there are way more people dying on one side than the other. And most of the people dying are civilians. Not only that, but hospitals and schools are in the cross-hairs, too. Yes, any nation reserves the right to defend itself. But is this really self defense or a variation of Florida’s barbarian “Stand Your Ground” laws played out on a global scale?

The other thing that bothers me about Gadot’s stance on the conflict is one of the hashtags she uses: #weareright. That hashtag is buttressed by other, more palatable ones like #freegazafromhamas and #coexistance (sp), but it still oozes with the kind of nationalism that leads to the kind of escalation that will ultimately make everything worse for both sides.

Here’s the thing. When you have hundreds of people — most of whom are women and children — dead and hospitals and schools destroyed, no one is right. War is terrible and awful. Not a spectator sport. Supporting one’s country does not mean you have to also support what that country is doing, especially when so much death and destruction is the direct result of those actions.

The fact that Gadot will be the real life embodiment of Wonder Woman for generations to come is what makes this all so ironic. Maybe not as ironic as casting, say, Ted Nugent as Batman, but still. Wonder Woman is supposed to be an ambassador of peace. Of course, she’s also an Amazon warrior who isn’t afraid to take up the sword against evil, but Diana of Themyscira only goes to war for those who cannot fight for themselves.

Is it possible that, were Wonder Woman real, her view of the conflict in Gaza would be filled with more compassion for the oppressed? Isn’t that the kind of justice that a character like Wonder Woman is supposed to inspire?”

As the quote points out, even though she says she supports coexistence in her hashtags, she uses the hashtags #weareright and #loveidf at the same time. I am aware of her history as a soldier serving in the IDF and I’m also aware that in Israel, serving in their military is compulsory, so I do not really condemn her for that. But the fact is that she remains an active supporter of IDF when she doesn’t have to be, because as far as I know, it isn’t compulsory for Israeli citizens to actively show their support and love for the IDF like through social media (unless it is, so please correct me if I’m wrong there - because I don’t know enough about Israeli laws and policies on that front). After her service in the military, she could have just remained quiet and not necessarily have been so public about her support of the IDF (but then that might have been a whole other can of worms as she would be condemned for her silence on the issue, for it could be viewed as being still complicit in the oppression due to her not speaking out on it).

I didn’t know about Adam Driver (who, like Gal, also served in his country’s military, although this time it wasn’t compulsory and thus it is less understandable and he actually served in combat too from what I’ve researched now), and in that area, I think you’re right. That is a troubling phenomenon, and thank you for pointing that out. I first knew of him through “Star Wars”, but I didn’t care much about him (and still don’t) because I like the lead actors - Daisy, John, and Oscar (whose character is not really a main protagonist as of now but Poe is more important to me than Kylo Ren anyway) - much better, and he really didn’t stand out as anything special to me although I suppose he was a good actor too. That’s the thing with US-centrism (and West-centrism in general) - these Americans think their country is too good and progressive to be oppressive to other nations and countries. And in this situation, I do think that it’s more likely than not a case of implicit anti-Semitism (and perhaps even a little sexism) and so-called liberals feeling high and mighty about themselves because they condemn one form of oppression perpetuated by a non-Western country while ignoring the oppression perpetuated by their own country.

I will tread more carefully now where Adam Driver is concerned, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I will boycott “The Last Jedi” and Episode IX. I have never had plans to watch any of his other movies and TV shows (and this just solidifies my stance to not watch them at all), especially ones in which he is the main character, and while he has a significant role in the sequel trilogy, the movies have been more focused on at least Daisy and John (and now Oscar and Kelly) and that is what I’m focusing on too. But I understand that would be a problematic stance to take, as it reminds me of the time people urged others not to boycott “Suicide Squad” so as to show support for the relatively unknown actors of color there for whom these people were afraid that their careers would end and be wasted if SS was a financial flop and the time people also urged others not to boycott “The Get Down” so as to also show support for the relatively unknown actors of color (mainly black, Latinx, and Afro-Latinx) who still deserved it despite people’s legitimate concerns about Jared Leto’s creepy behavior and the allegations of sexual harassment/assault against him and the issue of Herizen Guardiola being a child predator. Rest assured, I will think on that and reevaluate my stances, and I totally understand people who will not watch or who will boycott “Star Wars” due to Adam Driver’s presence and I will not condemn them for that.

For your last point, while that may have been the case at the beginning and that may be somewhat understandable (and I’m not fully convinced), that doesn’t account for all the atrocities that Israel has committed against Palestinians, especially at present. I doubt all of the cruelties they inflicted were a result of mistakes or US anti-Semitism - it’s far too many to all have been the product of mistakes, and they are still doing it now so yeah :/ However, I do understand that Israel owes a lot to US support and the US should be called out as vocally for its continued support for Israel, but there’s a line from this article which I linked to before in my previous response that I think we should consider: “Israel is an extension of US imperialism, doing its dirty work of intimidating regional enemies with periodic military aggression and a rogue nuclear arsenal. The US has no special interest in oppressing the Palestinians, but they are powerless enough to be expendable in the Great Power game.”

It may not be the best parallel to make, but this kind of reminds me (not specifically referring to you or anyone else, sorry if it comes off that way) of our current situation in the Philippines - how our president, Rodrigo Duterte, tries to deflect US criticism of his bloody war on drugs and the thousands of extrajudicial killings and murders that have happened in the course of this war by retorting with call-outs of US imperialism and colonialism in the Philippines in the past (although US imperialism still definitely affects our country at present, but Duterte usually cites things like atrocities committed by the Americans during the Philippine-American War and the American colonial period). Duterte’s call-outs are valid in that the US is still messing us up well into the present and they’ve never really apologized, and the US needs to acknowledge that too, but two wrongs do not make a right. Besides, there are plenty of Filipinos who criticize Duterte and his policies too, so that doesn’t mean all criticism of him is automatically invalid (which it’s still not, even from the US or Americans) because most of it (actually, from what I have seen, Filipinos are the most vocal) comes from the US. (And yes, for those who are curious, I am mainly anti-Duterte [but that doesn’t mean I oppose all his policies, for some do make sense, but in general, he has a terrible track record especially when it comes to actually serving his people as it seems he’s actually killing off a lot of them and violating their human rights as well] - though that doesn’t make me a yellowt*rd or a supporter of the Liberal Party/P-Noy/the Aquinos and the Cojuangcos as many Duterte fans are so fond of making false dichotomies - so if there are Filipino followers out there whom we call DDS (die-hard Duterte supporters), you can unfollow me.)

But it is in no way the fault of Jewish people in general at all - only the fault of the Israeli government, the IDF, and the people who actively continue to support them. Not all Jewish people are Israeli and there are in fact plenty of Jewish people who are anti-Israel (I’ve found more websites now like the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network and Jewish Voice for Peace), so if anyone is blaming them for what is happening in Israel and Palestine right now, they can sit their anti-Semitic asses down and shut up.

I think we could also consider that Zionism may be to Jewish people as the Q word is to LGBT+ people and the N word is to black people - it may be an inherently flawed ideology that is only theirs to reclaim and call out if necessary, so as I said before, this means we should be more careful when it comes to using the different terms involved in this issue.

Finally, for the mod/admin thing, I am considering it - that’s actually a good idea. Preferably Jewish people of color would be good, but if there are white Jewish people who wish to join and contribute to this blog, I will consider them. I will be editing my PSAs about admin applications soon in that case, but that isn’t final yet.

Also, I understand that there are people who do tend to respond to criticism like that aggressively, and while there are some situations - depending on the issues being criticized - where that’s an okay way to go, it doesn’t always help.

And yes, sources would be good too, so thank you in advance :) Thank you for that too - I’m rather flattered. I do think I could be even more mature as I don’t consider myself that mature yet, like if you knew me personally, but thank you anyway :) I hope I was able to make more clarifications too, and that we understand each other.

-Admin Dawn