carlitoscarlangasflames

[nthspecialll]

I misread your “John is really Dutch’s son,” as “Jack is really Dutch’s son,” 👀

Any thoughts on the theory?

Not too fond of it. I know Roger is open to the idea of Jack not being John's but I feel like it would ruin like the entirety of John's arc because it is about him accepting that Jack is his and I feel like coming up and saying "haha nevermind!" is kind of cruel.

There is also the fact Jack can get mistaken for John ten times in rdr1 which... there gotta be a resemblence if you get mistaken TEN TIMES for someone.

I also know Rob hates the theory that Jack isn't John's.

[gremlin-boah]

I give Dutch, a horse made of mango

This one's fo yo Dutch!

Ah shit.

@nthspecialll I think he was hungry, he could eat a mango horse.

[dreamingatnights]

MAKE THE COMIC ABOUT HOW JAVIER GOT HIS SCAR!! PLEASEEEE AND IF YOU DO, PLEASE KEEP ME UPDATED

Dkfhfkfj I WANT TO BUT MORIVATION IS HAAARD

If you're curious you can always reach my dms though because i like... Already have most of my ideas down already and i could send you the script or smt 👀

[werewolfarthurmorganenjoyer]

I love the Jobigail, Sadigail and Jovier polycule because this means Jack is stuck in an endless loop of "ask your dad/mom" until Uncle Arthur comes to the rescue and takes the boy to the bookstore

(@nthspecialll because we talked about this a while ago lol)

[nthspecialll]

What do you think would happen if Sean and Kieran were alive in chapter 6? Would they be in guarma in chapter five? And what sides would they take in the end?

Kieran would not be in Guarma, in chapter four they are just starting to trust him, they would not bring him to the bank robbery, he would have to step up and help keep the others safe. I think that would be very interesting to see though, we hear that Charles and Sadie had to clear Lakay from thugs and Kieran would probably help there. We only really see him stand up as the criminal he is in six point cabin.

Kieran would also absolutely be on Arthur's side, he cares more for people than he does money and loyalty. He is quite a loose soul and wouldn't struggle with "betraying" Dutch, he probably wouldn't be there in the complete end, he would run with Mary-Beth or something similar, he is not staying til that gun fight.

As for Sean, he would be in Guarma. They need every gun they can get in the bank robbery and he wouldn't "sacrifice" himself like Charles did and thus stay in Saint Denis, so yes he goes to Guarma. As for what side he would be on, I actually don't know. While he is alive he is fiercely loyal, we see him half doubt once, however it is nothing special and when Arthur talks about Dutch to him he says people should get off Dutch's back.

The thing is, we don't know how he will react to everything that happens, we don't really see him react to any kind of betrayal because none happens while he is alive. I can argue for him taking both sides, but I am not certian in either.

He is a person who doesn't show that much care in killing, he happily kills rich people and anyone who works for them, he doesn't even seem to care about Heidi, the innocent girl Dutch practically executed. So doubt would not come from the amount of people they kill or their morale, where I however can see him get cautious with Dutch is when he gets wreckless with the lives of the gang. Sean loves the gang, they are his family. He doesn't seem to think too deeply about it with the deaths of Mac, Davey and Jenny, but maybe with Hosea, Lenny, Molly and the others he would take a second to think.

[nthspecialll]

do you think if arthur had somehow survived on the cliffside, like not being beaten as hard or charles arriving to him in time, and made it to when rdr1 was set, he would have been someone john was told to go after? and if so, what do you think john would have done?

Firstly we need to get rid of that TB because people can survive three years with TB but even that wouldn't help him as the cure was first made in 1943, so this is a scenerio where he did not get TB.

Now, if he lived to see 1911 I think the thing that would determine if he got hunted or not is how he lived his life after the break of the gang.

The characters who got hunted aka Javier, Bill and Dutch were all characters who were still living a life of crime, the characters that escaped, Tilly, Mary-Beth, Sadie and Charles, all had plans of living lawfully. Even John was found because he broke the law.

Yes by 1911 he was living by the law, but that wasn't when the Pinkertons found him, they found him in 1907 after he killed Micah. And we all know Arthur dreamt of running away with Mary, had he done so he would be fine, had he however decided to do crime (though I doubt it)? Then we might have trouble.

If Arthur wasn't with someone he really cared for and wanted to protect, I do see him giving up his own life so that John would be safe. If John doesn't want to kill him then he probably would do it himself.

If Arthur was with another gang he cared for, he would find a way for him not to die but also for John and his family to be safe. This migh involve moving the family to Canada, taking them into the gang on the run or something similar.

[nthspecialll]

do you think many members of dutch’s gang were religious? was dutch even religious?

There are some characters that we cant tell other than "oh they grew up in this place in this age" but there are also some where we know their religions! I am quickly going to go over them but HeavenlyMorals made a really good post on this which I recommend looking at!

Dutch is not a catholic, he verbally talks about his dislikes for them, meaning he probably grew up protestant, however he does act more in romantisism, which is based on the relationship between man, god and nature.

Hosea is protestant. He talks about wanting to become a priest however he gave up on it because he needed to be a catholic and he wasn't fond of that idea. He talks about heaven and salvation and about his relationship with god being rocky due to Bessie's death.

Arthur is agnostic. He is open to the idea of faith, talking about whether or not he can get salvation however he tells the nun he does not believe in anything at all. That said, he dislikes the church but not the people. He doesnt really care what people believe in, he respects it, but he hates how the church takes and takes.

John is a non-practicing christian. He makes reference to god, like marrying Abigail in front of her, Dutch not being saved and so on, but he is rather passive when it comes to religion itself and is rather realistic.

Abigail is a praciticing Christian. She asks Jack to read verses for her.

Sean is likely cultual catholic. He talks about being a Child Of God, and is proud of his irish heritage which is known for catholis.

Javier is too cultural catholic. He doesn't speak of it but he makes the cross sign.

Molly is probably a protestant due to her troubles with Sean.

Micah is atheist. He uses himself as a god, he bullies Swanson for being religious and talks it down.

Sadie is christian, though not practicing. She mentions god as a force but doesn't practice.

Swanson is protestant, though he has swayed a little. He talks about how "maybe catholics are right" when he is completely down and doubting in chapter 2.

These are very shortly explaining, but I REALLY recommend the post above!!

[nthspecialll]

similar to the other ask, whats the best and worst traits of sean macguire?

In an interview Ben Davis (Dutch's actor) mentioned that there were two characters crutial to the continuation of the Van Der Linde gang after him and Hosea were gone, one of those were Lenny and the other was Sean. While he didn't elaborate on Sean, I believe I know what he meant and looking into that will reveal both his worst and best feature.

Sean is being raised like Arthur was.

A few times Sean gets refered to as a young Arthur, reckless but smart, and those are the two features we will be talking about.

Unlike what a lot of people believe, Sean is not dumb, far from it actually. He knew that the guard job was a trap even when Dutch, Micah, Bill and Lenny did not. He planned the burning of the Gray's fields based on little knowledge and the robberies he planned ended okay.

Similarly to Arthur, the fact he is smart but able to hide it, and thus leading people to underestimate him, is his best trait. However his worst trait often gets in the way, a trait we know Arthur had as well but with years was able to get free from.

He is very eager, quite reckless and improvises a lot.

Sean wants to work, he wants to prove himself and he wants to get as much out of a job as he can. He is intelligent, but his want to do as much as he can will win in the battle.

In a camp interaction between Javier, Bill and Sean, we hear Bill and Javier talk of a job they had which went well, Sean asks them to bring him next time, Javier answers "I would rather not die."

In Pouring Forth The Oil he wasn't even meant to be there, he asked, was told no and then showed up either way. We are also told he isn't quite good at ending fights, but rather starting them, also hinting at his impulsiveness.

He gets knocked out twice, he gets Mary-Beth captured, he gets captured himself by the bounty hinters and so on. Sometimes it works out, like with the burning of the Gray's where he got the payroll though it was not the plan.

The biggest difference between dumb and impulsive in this case is that the plans he had in the start were good, they could work, however midway through he abanonded them to do something else because he decided that he could do better.

If he had had the time he would have been able to abandon his impulsiveness, however he did not get that chance.

I hope that it makes sense, I feel I didn't explain it very well, but I hope it answered the question! I yapped about it to my dad on the way home from matrial arts and I think he was regretting buying me red dead.

[nthspecialll]

this might be a stupid question, but why when you go into dead eye as either Arthur or John you can hear a clock ticking or a heartbeat in the background? does every person that uses deadeye have a personal sound in the background?

Dead Eye to me is a display of their skill and concentration, which is also why when it gets low you can see them kind of uncomfortable and when you allow them to take a drink or a smoke they are back on track, because ya know they were allowed to rest a little and take their mind off things.

This leads to the sound, I did not come up with this, but rather read it on a redit thread some time back, but one person said that Arthur hears a ticking clock because he is experienced, he is old and he knows that when fighting every second matters. He knows that every second that he is in that fight he is at the risk of being killed, thus he hears a clock ticking down, he knows he needs to end it as fast as possible.

Then we have John, he has a heartbeat in rdr2 but not in rdr1. The thread I read talked about how John in rdr2 has a heartbeat because he is young and he has adrenalin running through his body when he is out fighting. He is fast and he is excited, and I think it fits when you then in rdr1 don't have it (from what I could hear) and he has gained knowledge and he doesn't find it as exciting anymore, it is a task, a chore almost.

[nthspecialll]

i feel like dutch having the gang members sleep where they do, in dirty bedrolls that often get infested with bugs and water COULD be a sort of power move, especially with having the men outside in shady belle but i wanna know ur thoughts on that and if im just thinking too deeply on it!!

Oh there is definitely something. This kind of subtle act of placing himself up on a pedestal is something that Dutch does quite a lot but something that is actually fairly new for him.

We can see this in the fact that he lives in a tent that is beautifully decorated with wooden flooring lifted off the ground (or in Shady Belle's case he lives in the master bedroom), while the other gang members are sleeping on the ground. Though it is also a bit hiracy based as Lenny reveals when saying that he is "sleeping outside with the juniors."

I am going to return to the sleeping placement later, but there is also the fact that Dutch doesn't do small jobs, Dutch is there for the big gigs, he is there when he can make a face for himself. He doesn't go out and rob small houses or do small things, which is fairly new as we hear just five years ago when Javier joined the gang that he was out stealing chickens.

It is definately a way for him to put himself "better" the others, but it also creates a sort of distance between him and his people. We don't see him having emotional camp interactions sitting with the others, talking about his life and telling stories, we can't play poker with him or dominos, he is kind of on his own, isolated in a way. And it isn't like it has to be that way, Hosea is his right hand man yet there is a very big difference between the two. Hosea is down on the ground with the others, he is telling stories, playing dominos, going out robbing houses or people on the highway, and also, sleeping on the ground.

It is quite interesting to note that Hosea sleeps with the others. Dutch, Arthur and John have their own spaces, but Hosea does not up until Shady Belle where a lot of the others, including the women, have moved inside. He is down in the trenches with the other gang members, being one of them and not putting himself above them, and I think that is a conscious choice, I don't doubt that if Hosea said "I want a tent/a place of my own" he would be high enough in the gang to get it.

Other examples of Dutch placing himself above the others are: his girl not having to work, his clothing always being in better shape than the others even though he most likely is not making the money that he is using (I mean look at how few jobs he does, he is not making that money).

And thank you for the ask! :D

[nthspecialll]

Also the thing with Molly is that she is Irish. Her family, all she had known, is back in Dublin. She doesn’t have anyone to turn to, while the girls at least have eachother.

Also, it is said she came from a rich Dublin family. Molly probable would not have many transferable skills and was used to people doing things for her.

Even Sean dislikes her — her being from Dublin and rich isolates her from the only fellow countryman in the camp. He even calls her a ‘west Briton’, a derogatory term for people from Dublin.

Although I have to say whether by accident or not Molly really is the quintessential tragic Irish woman. Irish literature is often quite grim. She is almost like a love letter to that tragedy. Idk. I got a lot to say about Molly.

Absolutely. Molly has no one outside of the gang, the gang is why she is fed, why she has a roof over her head, why she have money to do literally anything. They give her all the practical stuff, but she has nothing social, she is an outcast socially but she also cannot leave becauseshe sacrified everything for them, she cannot go back to her family, she has no friends and she cannot survive on her own. She can stay and have all the practical but feel miserable, or leave and have nothing.

And idk who you are, but if you wanna talk about Molly my dms are open!! Idk a lot about her in dept but i would love to listen :D

[nthspecialll]

What kind of interactions did you want to see more of in the game?

Of course we have the basic of hearing more about the characters pasts, but ngl I wish we could meet them out in the world doing their own things, similarly to how you can meet Uncle at a bar and Javier and Bill with bounty hunters.

Like I think it would give such an amazing insight into who these characters actually are and what they do. I want to go for a trail ride and see Charles tracking down dinner, I want to watch as Hosea plans a scam in camp and then follow him along out into the world and executes it, I want to be riding to a job and see Javier gathering herbs for his poisionous knives or playing five finger fillet in a back alley.

It doesn't even have to be jobs, but also just what they do for fun, like what does Strauss do in his free time? All we see him do is stare at his damn books and as someone who is studing business I can tell you accounting isn't that interesting, he has to have a hobby of a sort. Abigail too, like what does she do in her free time other than watch Jack and drink coffee, or Dutch, does he even leave camp at all other than a few missions?

I just think it would be awesome to follow them around like that or to just see how they are as people.

[nthspecialll]

how do you feel about the dialogue from arthur “I think, as a general rule, Dutch likes to avoid murder in the camp. Well, there was that one time, but he was a traitor.” from the companion activity with tilly? because i CANNOT stop thinking about it and i love your thoughts on everything 🙏

I think that line is meant to show how strong they were in the past and also kind of tell us how a traitor in itself is not something fetal for them. They had a traitor before and they came out fine enough that they are able to joke about it, and that says a lot. A traitor is a person telling every piece of information to the exact people you don't want it to reach, so them being able to survive that in good condition says a far lot about them.

Similarly how it shows that a traitor isn't the end of them, it shows that Dutch was. How if it had just been Micah doing his shit, they would have been fine, but the fact that Dutch was loosing his own shit meant that they were not. Dutch was their downfall, not Micah.

Arthur saying that they killed him also shows that they take justice (in the loyality way) very seriously, and sets a kind of frame for how they handle things and that yeah the gang might seem sweet but they are dangerous and you should not mess with them, similar to the burning of the Braithwaites.

I really wish we knew more about this dude and how they handled it so we can compare it to the gang we know, kinda see the differences.

[nthspecialll]

coming from someone who used to hate Mary linton, I rly do think the majority of the fandoms hatred towards her is a fundamental misreading/misunderstanding of her character or just people assuming the worst out of a woman who they believe hurt their lil pookie outlaw cause she thought she was better than him. like damn she just asked for help.

Yeah... People tend to mischaractarize quite a lot. And I definitely agree she simply asked for help, and to be honest, I don't even think asking Arthur for help was her first choice either, I don't it was a choice she made for herself.

The way I see it is that she was widowed and then suddenly learns of her brother joining a cult, she travels to Valentine to help him but fails miserably/can't even get to him when she hears Arthur, who always did have a good bond with Jamie, is near. She reaches out because she cannot help Jamie but she hopes Arthur can, she reaches out to Arthur not for herself but for Jamie. Did she hope they would recandle a flame? Maybe?? But I don't think it was the main goal.

In the end of the Valentine quest she does flat out reject him saying "oh you will never change." It is first in Saint Denis, after they spend time together (which they didn't really in chap 2), where she realises "no, he has not changed, but I love him even though he hasn't," a fact that she had fought to ignore for a good while.

To be honest, I think that after the death of her husband, she was ready to run away with him, she was ready to spend her life with him because she had seen what other life she would have and she didn't like it.

Now, however, the problem was Arthur, he wasn't ready. He was too occupied by his responsiblities.

[nthspecialll]

why do you ship jovier?? i know its common but i swear they barely interacted at all

Well, let me explain to you at least why I ship them, but also thank you for asking! It is an amazing excuse to yap about them.

To me, it is the absolute tragety that they are and the care that they have for one another that we don't always see them show towards others. Take the very first mission with them for example, John is missing, gone, possibly run off and Hosea knows to ask Javier to go find him because Javier will go and he will not complain like Bill or Micah and he is willing to go the extra mile unlike maybe Lenny or Charles and even Arthur.

In this mission we hear the first of John, he is unreliable, he left the gang, his "wife" and his child and everything for an entire year and it also becomes clear that Arthur who has known him for years still doubts him and believes it is possible that John left. Meanwhile, we have Javier who has not known John that long yet he stands certain and defends John saying "he wouldn't do that" even though he would and has. We also see Arthur willing to give up as soon as the trail in the snow becomes semi-hard to follow yet again, Javier pushes on saying "just a bit more." If it has just been Arthur John would have died on that mountian.

And now in chapters 2-6 we get to the "problem" with Javier, he is not in a lot of main quests so to get to know him you have to be around camp because he actually has a lot of camp interactions, and a few is with John, so let's go through them.

While John is reading the newspapers Javier comes up to him and says "scar looks pretty", John replies with "yeah, ruined my fine features" followed up by "thank you, for saving me" to which Javier says "of course, I know you would do the same for me" and then in the end John "I owe you, for life." This interaction generally just shows a form of appreciation as well as softness between them, it isn't a lot of other times you see any other male characters thank another.

You have when they are sitting and eating and they start talking about Mexico where John says "I would like to go to Mexico one day" and Javier replies "maybe you will." It is just a heartbreaking foreshadowing.

Possibly my favourite interaction between them, Javier is drinking and John is standing nearby so Javier says "come join me brother, have a drink," John looks over and replies "no, I will sit down and have several" so they just sit and drink, John quickly becoming drunk and poetic and Javier shows obvious signs of concern to the point where even John comments on it saying something along the lines of "why not give me another?"

Now, in chapter six, the end is nearing, people are falling apart and things are going to hell. I have before made several posts about this but Javier is desperate. He built his entire personality around ideals and he joined Dutch because of ideals, should it come to the fact that Dutch is not correct that would mean everything Javier was and everything he made himself into was also wrong, not to mention he wouldn't be able to stay in America nor be able to go back to Mexico because of his family. He is frustrated, and as any other person when frustrated, he becomes agitated and hot-headed, he needs Dutch to be right so he acts out. His "anger" is nothing more than fright.

We see Javier yell at John, yet we also see him defending John. Bill comes up to Javier and starts talking about how John has to be the rat, how it is the only thing that makes sense, Javier replies "that doesn't make much sense either," clearly standing up for John when he needed to. That is until it is Arthur, when it is Arthur he turns on a dime and says something along the lines of "maybe it is John" but that is simply because he is "hating" Arthur on principle.

Now, the final gun stand, whatever you wanna call it, I have made a whole post on this, but in short, Javier pointed his gun on John but he was hesitant because he didn't actually have a hatred against John, he didn't see him as a traitor, he saw him as a brother. Also as soon as the gun fight is over Javier is gone, you can find Dutch, Cleet, Joe, Micah, but Javier and Bill are gone.

1911, the two have not talked for ages, yet Javier knows John has several children, clearly keeping some form of interest on him throughout the many years. Also their meet?? Their entire meet, both had the chance to kill the other but didn't.

Javier could have chosen to shoot John and get it over with instead of jumping out of the window, securing his own life's safety, but he didn't. John could have chosen to shoot Javier immediately and save himself the trouble, but he didn't.

Also, John's talk about Javier to Abraham. "When Dutch started fallin' apart, it hit Javier harder than any of us. He went crazy. It was like the one thing he'd ever believed in turned out to be a fraud." John knew Javier wasn't thinking straight and I personally see it quite obvious that Javier was never angry at John either.

I think in the end that John didn’t hate Javier, not when he killed him either, he just loved Abigail more than Javier and chose her over him, but in any other situation where they stood face to face i think John would have just walked away.

[nthspecialll]

you know what drives me nuts about rdr2? mind you i love it and i’m not actually super mad but.

there are pekin ducks in the game, right? and mallards. except pekin ducks are a domestic breed. you can get them to look like mallards by breeding them with said mallard but you probably wont get rid of one tiny issue. they’re too fat to fucking fly. they physically cannot do it. WHY are there pekin ducks that can fly in the game???

also pekin ducks were introduced into america sometime in the 1870s i think. and i know that domestic animals cause havoc in ecosystems HOWEVER how did this too fat to fly duck survive for long enough to reproduce?? even nowadays they have trouble surviving when dumped at ponds where they have an availability of food.

I honestly don't know a lot about birds, but I would guess it is a creative freedom that Rockstar has taken. For a very realistic game, they have sadly taken a lot of creative freedoms when it comes to their wildlife. Prime example is the horses.

The most popular horse in game is the white arabian which lives alone, in the snow. Horses are pack animals, they live in herds and you will have to force them away from one another to get them to be alone, and an Arabian living in snow without any kind of rug or protection is also a stretch.

We also have the Missouri Fix Trotter which was wild in a side quest, but in reality was developed by settlers and have never been wild. Same goes for the Tennessee Walker, which is one of the easiest to find in game out in the wild, but was actually developped on farms, again, having never been wild. The foundation sire of the breed was actually first born in 1886.

I am sure there are more examples out there with minor details being screwed that only people who really know the species will realise. I would think it is just a creative freedom as Rockstar aren't known for being lazy in any department.